Why Windows Vista will suck

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #1
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  2. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Rob Guest

    Just goes to reinforce that intel has been holding back with it's faster
    hardware, until vista is released. People will then buy windows vista, and
    a new computer that is capable of running it..


    "Have A Nice Cup of Tea" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8288296398.html
    >
    > Enjoy!
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >
    > --
    > Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to
    > Linux, and
    > it does all the things that they want."
    >
    Rob, Mar 3, 2006
    #2
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  3. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Rob J Guest

    In article <1141358056.624340@ftpsrv1>, says...
    > Just goes to reinforce that intel has been holding back with it's faster
    > hardware, until vista is released. People will then buy windows vista, and
    > a new computer that is capable of running it..
    >
    >
    > "Have A Nice Cup of Tea" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8288296398.html



    built-in Intel GMA (graphics media accelerator) 950 graphics?

    That is state of the art? LOL

    You can already get an Intel board with the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset
    and graphics on it. Waaaay superior.
    Rob J, Mar 3, 2006
    #3
  4. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    s.t.e.v.e. Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8288296398.html
    >
    > Enjoy!


    Same old story. The new MS OS will be used as a lever to drive PC industry
    hardware and software sales / upgrades.

    It's been that way since DOS to Win 3.x -> Win95.....and so on.
    s.t.e.v.e., Mar 3, 2006
    #4
  5. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Rob J Guest

    In article <1141358056.624340@ftpsrv1>, says...
    > Just goes to reinforce that intel has been holding back with it's faster
    > hardware, until vista is released. People will then buy windows vista, and
    > a new computer that is capable of running it..
    >
    >
    > "Have A Nice Cup of Tea" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8288296398.html
    > >
    > > Enjoy!


    Full of crap. The aero interface is optional, and the Intel 950 GMA is
    nowhere near as good as even a Radeon X300.

    Right now in NZ, I can buy a basic Intel board with Intel 950 graphics
    on it, or for $40 less I can buy an Intel board with Radeon Xpress 200
    chipset (equiv Radeon X300).

    It's nice to see that the cheapies we are buying this year with
    Xpress200 on them should be able to run Vista nicely.
    Rob J, Mar 3, 2006
    #5
  6. On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:07:16 +1300, Rob J wrote:

    > You can already get an Intel board with the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset and
    > graphics on it. Waaaay superior.


    You shouldn't need a high-end graphics card merely to make a GUI work.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux, and
    it does all the things that they want."
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #6
  7. On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:07:34 +1300, s.t.e.v.e. wrote:

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >
    >> http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8288296398.html
    >>
    >> Enjoy!

    >
    > Same old story. The new MS OS will be used as a lever to drive PC industry
    > hardware and software sales / upgrades.
    >
    > It's been that way since DOS to Win 3.x -> Win95.....and so on.


    Well that won't work in my house. I am using a state of the art OS on what
    is now entry-level 64bit hardware. It works effortlessly. The only time I
    start to see signs of effort from the OS is when load levels start getting
    around the 3.80-4.80 mark and I'm running programmes that are CPU
    intensive.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux, and
    it does all the things that they want."
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #7
  8. On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:11:56 +1300, Rob J wrote:

    > Full of crap. The aero interface is optional, and the Intel 950 GMA is
    > nowhere near as good as even a Radeon X300.


    LOL - the crapmark from Rob J!


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux, and
    it does all the things that they want."
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #8
  9. T'was the Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:37:44 +1300 when I remembered Have A
    Nice Cup of Tea <> saying something like this:

    >> You can already get an Intel board with the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset and
    >> graphics on it. Waaaay superior.

    >
    >You shouldn't need a high-end graphics card merely to make a GUI work.


    Why not? Last time I checked Sun's Project Looking Glass GUI for Linux
    needed quite a powerful graphics card to run.

    Also, the Aero theme for Vista isn't compulsory, you can turn it off
    if you want.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    See my blog at http://spaces.msn.com/WaylonKenning/
    Waylon Kenning, Mar 3, 2006
    #9
  10. On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:38:40 +1300, Waylon Kenning wrote:

    >>You shouldn't need a high-end graphics card merely to make a GUI work.

    >
    > Why not? Last time I checked Sun's Project Looking Glass GUI for Linux
    > needed quite a powerful graphics card to run.
    >
    > Also, the Aero theme for Vista isn't compulsory, you can turn it off if
    > you want.


    Yes - and there are multiple desktops to choose from for Linux, not
    counting any GUI being devised by Sun Microsystems. Vi$ta is intended to
    have the Aero "theme" as the default, and a concession is to permit the
    use of a "theme" that does not require anywhere near as much grunt to
    merely to keep the OS ticking over.

    Putting that amount of processing power into merely driving a GUI
    (irrespective of who created it) is a complete waste of resources.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux, and
    it does all the things that they want."
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #10
  11. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Rob J Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > T'was the Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:37:44 +1300 when I remembered Have A
    > Nice Cup of Tea <> saying something like this:
    >
    > >> You can already get an Intel board with the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset and
    > >> graphics on it. Waaaay superior.

    > >
    > >You shouldn't need a high-end graphics card merely to make a GUI work.

    >
    > Why not? Last time I checked Sun's Project Looking Glass GUI for Linux
    > needed quite a powerful graphics card to run.
    >
    > Also, the Aero theme for Vista isn't compulsory, you can turn it off
    > if you want.


    Yeah, and an X300 Radeon is not a high end card, it's a cheapie - they
    cost about $100.

    This actual board (Intel D101GGC) is the cheapest one they make. Ascent
    sells it for $145, very much the budget end of the market.
    Rob J, Mar 3, 2006
    #11
  12. T'was the Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:08:52 +1300 when I remembered Have A
    Nice Cup of Tea <> saying something like this:

    >Yes - and there are multiple desktops to choose from for Linux, not
    >counting any GUI being devised by Sun Microsystems. Vi$ta is intended to
    >have the Aero "theme" as the default, and a concession is to permit the
    >use of a "theme" that does not require anywhere near as much grunt to
    >merely to keep the OS ticking over.


    Good point, I didn't realize people don't understand how to change
    themes from default.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    See my blog at http://spaces.msn.com/WaylonKenning/
    Waylon Kenning, Mar 3, 2006
    #12
  13. Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8288296398.html
    >
    > Enjoy!


    Vista sucks because my dog might run off with my USB flash drive?!

    Whoopdedoo about a security patch available for Windows Vista, this
    patch was for an early Vista beta. WMF had already been fixed in
    Vista, the patch was made available out to Microsoft testers who had a
    much earlier build in their test labs etc. Its a beta.

    Always great to have healthy debate with different opinions, I took a
    quick look through the article and can immediately see a few things
    that are misleading. What I noticed at 2AM on Sat morning:

    Performance today is not representative of where it will be when
    Windows Vista ships, the build that was tested isn't beta 2 yet, thats
    still a few months away. Performance continues to get better from here
    on out

    Certainly the Intel Video GMA isn't the fastest card out there, but it
    is sufficient to run Aero, there will be WDDM drivers for the
    integrated Intel video chipset in use, they are not available yet
    outside Microsoft yet, but they will give better graphics performance
    including AERO support. There are some great benefits behind this
    including productivity and usability gains by using the full
    capabilities of modern GPUs. As always discrete graphics chipsets are
    better.

    a "What were they thinking of?" moment?
    The USB memory feature he mentions is actually called External Memory
    Device or EMD and works inconjunction with a feature called SuperFetch
    to speed up system performance. Despite how this feature gets boo
    hoo'd in the article, it actually works very well, and nothing bad
    happens if you remove your USB Flash disk - your system returns to the
    normal speed before you plugged into the EMD, also the data is chunked
    up and encrypted for security. another of their "What were they
    thinking of?" moments. the EMD feature is just plain cool IMHO.

    IPSec "another of their "What were they thinking of?" moments" IPSec
    works quite happily on the LAN as well as VPN, there is 2 sides to
    IPSec - AH & ESP, ESP is encryption, AH is AuthN. There is a lot of
    value in known that the machine you are talking to across the network
    really is the machine you think you are talking to. In a well managed
    Windows network this feature removes a massive amount of burden off the
    IT Administrators. AH lets you dynamically segment a Windows
    infrastructure into more secure, logically isolated "virtual"
    networks. At Microsoft, we call this approach "Server and Domain
    Isolation" http://www.microsoft.com/sdisolation
    Its a great defence in depth strategy that doesn't require networks to
    be rewired, but layered on top to segment (and isolate) the hosts
    managed from rouge and/or unmanaged devices. This reduced the attack
    surface area of the network, ensuring that machines that are not
    subject to host health policies (e.g. latest updates, antivirus
    signatures, host firewall, and so on) are not able to introduce network
    security threats to the trusted network.

    A great out-of-the box value add in the Windows platform that is just
    waiting to be turned on. But if you want to do stuff the slow old hard
    expensive time consuming way, then of course you can :)
    Nathan Mercer, Mar 3, 2006
    #13
  14. Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    > On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:38:40 +1300, Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >
    > >>You shouldn't need a high-end graphics card merely to make a GUI work.

    > >
    > > Why not? Last time I checked Sun's Project Looking Glass GUI for Linux
    > > needed quite a powerful graphics card to run.
    > >
    > > Also, the Aero theme for Vista isn't compulsory, you can turn it off if
    > > you want.

    >
    > Yes - and there are multiple desktops to choose from for Linux, not
    > counting any GUI being devised by Sun Microsystems. Vi$ta is intended to
    > have the Aero "theme" as the default, and a concession is to permit the
    > use of a "theme" that does not require anywhere near as much grunt to
    > merely to keep the OS ticking over.


    Vista will ship with 4 different tiers of graphics. Classic, Aero to
    Go, Aero Express and Aero Glass. If you don't want the new Destop
    Window Manager with composition it can be turned off. In fact its
    great that now graphics can be hardware accelerated as well as the
    video performance will scale with hardware. Its default will be what
    the hardware is capable of.

    > Putting that amount of processing power into merely driving a GUI
    > (irrespective of who created it) is a complete waste of resources.


    Considering your GPU is sitting there idling when you are watching your
    desktop, why not use it? Take that load off the CPU, refresh the
    Windows experience and provide productivity and usability gains by
    using the full capabilities of modern graphics processing

    Cheers
    NAthan
    Nathan Mercer, Mar 3, 2006
    #14
  15. Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    > On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:07:16 +1300, Rob J wrote:
    >
    > > You can already get an Intel board with the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset and
    > > graphics on it. Waaaay superior.

    >
    > You shouldn't need a high-end graphics card merely to make a GUI work.


    You don't. Windows Vista works across a wide range of video hardware
    available yesterday, today and tomorrow.
    Nathan Mercer, Mar 3, 2006
    #15
  16. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On 3 Mar 2006 05:48:37 -0800, "Nathan Mercer" <>
    exclaimed:

    >
    >Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:07:16 +1300, Rob J wrote:
    >>
    >> > You can already get an Intel board with the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset and
    >> > graphics on it. Waaaay superior.

    >>
    >> You shouldn't need a high-end graphics card merely to make a GUI work.

    >
    >You don't. Windows Vista works across a wide range of video hardware
    >available yesterday, today and tomorrow.


    Honestly, Nathan, I wouldn't bother. Some people simply can't see
    beyond their own prejudice.

    You may know this particular idiot as "Bling-Bling".
    Fred Dagg, Mar 3, 2006
    #16
  17. On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:24:11 +1300, Waylon Kenning wrote:

    > Good point, I didn't realize people don't understand how to change themes
    > from default.


    A lot of Windoze users don't even know how to change the "wallpaper".


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux, and
    it does all the things that they want."
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #17
  18. On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 05:35:05 -0800, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > Performance continues to get better from here on out


    Yada yada yada.

    Windows 95b worked snappily enough on relatively low clock-speed 32 bit
    hardware. Windoze Vi$ta is still an OS for 32bit hardware, and it runs
    like a dog on anything other than current high-end hardware.

    The extra hardware grunt should go towards productivity gains, not
    towards merely making an increasingly bloated OS do little more than tick
    over.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Buffer-overflow vulnerabilities are simply programming errors; they occur when
    coders fail to deploy proper memory-management techniques.
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #18
  19. On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 05:45:35 -0800, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > Take that load off the CPU, refresh the Windows
    > experience


    Frankly, if I want a "windows experience" all I need to do is to walk over
    to one and draw aside the curtains.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux, and
    it does all the things that they want."
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 3, 2006
    #19
  20. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > Honestly, Nathan, I wouldn't bother. Some people simply can't see
    > beyond their own prejudice.
    >
    > You may know this particular idiot as "Bling-Bling".


    That's why the nym-shifting "I can't face the consequences of my own
    antagonism" Rogeresque arsehole is in my killfile. I'd appreciate a heads-up
    from those who watch headers etc. next time he nym-shifts so I don't waste a
    second reading his excrement. Took me a while this time around as his
    particular condition does seem to afford him the odd moment of lucidity.
    However, they are too few and far between to make it worth putting up with
    the rest.

    Cheers,
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Mar 3, 2006
    #20
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