Why Windows Needs Integrated Package Management

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. It’s so easy to install Windows software—yeah, right. But keeping it up to
    date means remembering to visit umpteen different websites, one for every
    package you’ve installed, finding the updates pages, checking versions, then
    downloading and installing the actual updates. How many times a week do you
    have to do this?

    No wonder most users simply can’t be arsed.

    <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/18/security_vulnerability_breakdown_secunia/>
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 19, 2011
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    AD. Guest

    On Jan 19, 4:27 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > It’s so easy to install Windows software—yeah, right. But keeping it up to
    > date means remembering to visit umpteen different websites, one for every
    > package you’ve installed, finding the updates pages, checking versions, then
    > downloading and installing the actual updates. How many times a week do you
    > have to do this?
    >
    > No wonder most users simply can’t be arsed.
    >
    > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/18/security_vulnerability_breakd...>


    Especially when most of these third party updaters don't even notify
    the user or can't update themselves anyway if the user is being
    responsible and not running with admin privileges.

    It would be great if ISVs could register a signed package repository
    that Windows Update (and WSUS) could use. Obviously the repos would
    need some sort of authorisation and possible revocation method etc.

    Surely if Adobe, Apple and Oracle etc vulnerabilities are making
    Windows look bad, MS would have something to gain by extending Windows
    Update this way.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Jan 19, 2011
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-01-19, AD. <> wrote:
    > On Jan 19, 4:27?pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    >> It?s so easy to install Windows software?yeah, right. But keeping it up to
    >> date means remembering to visit umpteen different websites, one for every
    >> package you?ve installed, finding the updates pages, checking versions, then
    >> downloading and installing the actual updates. How many times a week do you
    >> have to do this?
    >>
    >> No wonder most users simply can?t be arsed.
    >>
    >> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/18/security_vulnerability_breakd...>

    >
    > Especially when most of these third party updaters don't even notify
    > the user or can't update themselves anyway if the user is being
    > responsible and not running with admin privileges.
    >
    > It would be great if ISVs could register a signed package repository
    > that Windows Update (and WSUS) could use. Obviously the repos would
    > need some sort of authorisation and possible revocation method etc.
    >
    > Surely if Adobe, Apple and Oracle etc vulnerabilities are making
    > Windows look bad, MS would have something to gain by extending Windows
    > Update this way.
    >

    The above logic is all wrong. If third party programmes are causing grief MS can
    advertise that Ms Windows is not the cause of the problem and thus safe to
    buy, in fact good to buy as you can be rest assured that it is not going to
    cause the problem.

    Spin, it is an art.
     
    Gordon, Jan 19, 2011
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Dave Taylor Guest

    "AD." <> wrote in news:6de34b39-f46a-405a-88a5-
    :

    > It would be great if ISVs could register a signed package repository
    > that Windows Update (and WSUS) could use. Obviously the repos would
    > need some sort of authorisation and possible revocation method etc.


    Secunia PSI V2.

    I do agree that the Linux distros do a much better job of this now, with
    dependancies taken care of etc.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Jan 19, 2011
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    EMB Guest

    On 19/01/2011 10:17 p.m., Dave Taylor wrote:
    > "AD."<> wrote in news:6de34b39-f46a-405a-88a5-
    > :
    >
    >> It would be great if ISVs could register a signed package repository
    >> that Windows Update (and WSUS) could use. Obviously the repos would
    >> need some sort of authorisation and possible revocation method etc.

    >
    > Secunia PSI V2.
    >
    > I do agree that the Linux distros do a much better job of this now, with
    > dependancies taken care of etc.
    >

    System Center Configuration Manager does a good job of it for Windows in
    an enterprise environment. We've had it doing pretty much all we need
    for the last couple of years[1] including dependencies and third party
    app patching across 6000+ desktops and several hundred servers.

    [1] So long as my erstwhile colleague remembered to actually release the
    patches.
     
    EMB, Jan 19, 2011
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 04:35:26 +0000, Gordon wrote:

    > The above logic is all wrong. If third party programmes are causing
    > grief MS can advertise that Ms Windows is not the cause of the problem
    > and thus safe to buy, in fact good to buy as you can be rest assured
    > that it is not going to cause the problem.


    Doesn't matter that MS Windows isn't vulnerable on that particular
    occasion - it's still riddled with security flaws and vulnerabilities
    that MS is still regularly patching.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 19, 2011
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 23:16:08 +1300, EMB wrote:

    > System Center Configuration Manager does a good job of it for Windows in
    > an enterprise environment. We've had it doing pretty much all we need
    > for the last couple of years[1] including dependencies and third party
    > app patching across 6000+ desktops and several hundred servers.


    But what about all the mum and dad desktop users who don't have the
    benefit of certified MS Shi^n^n^n Administrators supervising all those
    desktops behind highly reliable *nix-based firewalls?


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 19, 2011
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Dave Taylor Guest

    Sweetpea <> wrote in news:pan.2011.01.19.10.50.53
    @Sweetpea.com:

    > But what about all the mum and dad desktop users who don't have the
    > benefit of certified MS Shi^n^n^n Administrators supervising all those
    > desktops behind highly reliable *nix-based firewalls?



    Secunia PSI V2 is at least a start for them. It does get the worst
    offenders fixed like Adobe Flash for instance.
    Combine that with making them a USER, not Administrator, and you have
    many holes fixed right off the bat.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Jan 19, 2011
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:32:40 +1300, EMB wrote:

    > They are in a better situation than with linux - where there is an
    > almost complete lack of commercial support available to them.


    rubbish! There is plenty of commercial support for *nix.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 20, 2011
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    victor Guest

    On 21/01/2011 7:35 a.m., EMB wrote:
    > On 20/01/2011 10:38 p.m., Sweetpea wrote:
    >> On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:32:40 +1300, EMB wrote:
    >>
    >>> They are in a better situation than with linux - where there is an
    >>> almost complete lack of commercial support available to them.

    >>
    >> rubbish! There is plenty of commercial support for *nix.
    >>

    > As usual you twist the topic - *nix != linux.
    >
    > And there is virtually no commercial linux support available to retail
    > end users.


    Twisting a bit yourself there
     
    victor, Jan 20, 2011
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    On 21/01/11 07:35, EMB wrote:
    > On 20/01/2011 10:38 p.m., Sweetpea wrote:
    >> On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:32:40 +1300, EMB wrote:
    >>
    >>> They are in a better situation than with linux - where there is
    >>> an almost complete lack of commercial support available to them.

    >>
    >> rubbish! There is plenty of commercial support for *nix.
    >>

    > As usual you twist the topic - *nix != linux.
    >
    > And there is virtually no commercial linux support available to
    > retail end users.
    >

    To be fair there's virtually no commercial support for Windows either.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Jan 21, 2011
    #11
  12. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:27:44 +1300, EMB wrote:

    > I know of 5 or 6 businesses locally that provide support to retail end
    > users of Windows. I think one of them *may* provide linux support.


    how could they provide expert support for *nix when they're only Windows
    boffins?


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 22, 2011
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 12:20:37 +1300, EMB wrote:

    >> how could they provide expert support for *nix when they're only
    >> Windows boffins?
    >>
    >>

    > Who would bother with the expense of training and certification for a
    > potential market of virtually zero?


    Agreed - any OS has a "potential market" of "virtually zero".


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 22, 2011
    #13
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