WHY?!? Why am i thinking i need an SLR, and thinking of going 35mm?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Steven C \(Doktersteve\), Jan 19, 2004.

  1. OK. This might sound stupid.

    I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.

    When I bought it, I thought "good, now I wont have to buy anything else for
    some time", but now I am starting to feel as though it is really not doing
    the job for me I would like.
    I have thought of this rationally, there are a few features that I can
    simply love about the camera, such as its awesome macro capabilities, and
    nice zeiss lens (whether it is just the coating or not, its a nice lens).

    But there are a few things that I don't like, one of them being the lack of
    a changeable lens, a fixed 5x zoom, and a relatively tame "wide" angle zoom
    out.

    Added to that, I still am paying this sucker off. I got it before the price
    started to plummet, and I owe about 80% on it still.

    I don't really know if I would benefit very much from moving to the digital
    rebel right now. That isn't to say that I am not interested in DSLR, quite
    the opposite, I very much AM interested in it, but for now I feel for some
    reason like I would do well to explore SLR in general, and that puzzles me.
    I mean, there are all the added costs of developing, scanning (I don't have
    a good scanner, I would get photo cd's made), and buying film.
    I don't want to give up on digital, just to carry both camera's when I go
    out, and use both of them for different things.

    I know that when I do go DSLR, I will go canon. It is a personal preference
    that I have formed.
    As such, I have been looking at getting myself a decent used canon which
    takes EF mount lenses (so I can use the lenses on whatever DSLR I get in the
    next few years).

    WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?

    I don't want to spend much more than $200 Canadian for a used camera, but as
    I understand it, a good camera from the late 1980s that takes current lens
    technology will do me as well as a brand new ELAN 7 will, yes?

    What do you think. Thanks for any suggestions.
     
    Steven C \(Doktersteve\), Jan 19, 2004
    #1
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  2. Steven C \(Doktersteve\)

    Chris Brown Guest

    In article <HsFOb.35145$n44.842@clgrps13>,
    Steven C \(Doktersteve\) <> wrote:
    >
    >WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    >I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    >the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    >What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?


    A friend of mine recently picked up a good deal on a secondhand EOS 50E. I
    see quite a few EOS 50 and EOS 10s for sale in the "used equipment" section
    of the photography shops I'm familliar with, and you could do a lot worse
    than either of those.
     
    Chris Brown, Jan 19, 2004
    #2
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  3. Re: WHY?!? Why am i thinking i need an SLR, and thinking of going35mm?

    Chris Brown wrote:
    > In article <HsFOb.35145$n44.842@clgrps13>,
    > Steven C \(Doktersteve\) <> wrote:
    >
    >>WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    >>I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    >>the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    >>What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?

    >
    >
    > A friend of mine recently picked up a good deal on a secondhand EOS 50E. I
    > see quite a few EOS 50 and EOS 10s for sale in the "used equipment" section
    > of the photography shops I'm familliar with, and you could do a lot worse
    > than either of those.


    Be wary of older EOS-mount lenses, canon, sigma or other 3rd party.
    They may not work on newer EOS cameras (and DSLRs) without
    being "rechipped." Basically a firmware upgrade. I have
    some sigma and canon lenses from the 1990s that worked
    on the elan II and 7, but not on a D60 or 10D. I don't
    know what fee canon (sigma, etc) charges for the upgrade.

    To answer your other questions, get a used elan, even elan I or II
    are great cameras. Try to get only IS lenses. You'll likely
    be glad you did and save money in the long run because you won't
    be keep upgrading. So buy the best lens you can afford as a
    good lens will last a long time, unlike camera bodies.

    Roger
    Photos, digital info at:
    http://www.clarkvision.com
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Jan 19, 2004
    #3
  4. Steven C \(Doktersteve\)

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: WHY?!? Why am i thinking i need an SLR, and thinking of going35mm?

    Steven C (Doktersteve) wrote:

    > OK. This might sound stupid.
    >
    > I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    > owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.
    >
    > When I bought it, I thought "good, now I wont have to buy anything else for
    > some time", but now I am starting to feel as though it is really not doing
    > the job for me I would like.
    > I have thought of this rationally, there are a few features that I can
    > simply love about the camera, such as its awesome macro capabilities, and
    > nice zeiss lens (whether it is just the coating or not, its a nice lens).
    >
    > But there are a few things that I don't like, one of them being the lack of
    > a changeable lens, a fixed 5x zoom, and a relatively tame "wide" angle zoom
    > out.
    >
    > Added to that, I still am paying this sucker off. I got it before the price
    > started to plummet, and I owe about 80% on it still.
    >
    > I don't really know if I would benefit very much from moving to the digital
    > rebel right now. That isn't to say that I am not interested in DSLR, quite
    > the opposite, I very much AM interested in it, but for now I feel for some
    > reason like I would do well to explore SLR in general, and that puzzles me.
    > I mean, there are all the added costs of developing, scanning (I don't have
    > a good scanner, I would get photo cd's made), and buying film.
    > I don't want to give up on digital, just to carry both camera's when I go
    > out, and use both of them for different things.
    >
    > I know that when I do go DSLR, I will go canon. It is a personal preference
    > that I have formed.
    > As such, I have been looking at getting myself a decent used canon which
    > takes EF mount lenses (so I can use the lenses on whatever DSLR I get in the
    > next few years).
    >
    > WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    > I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    > the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    > What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?
    >
    > I don't want to spend much more than $200 Canadian for a used camera, but as
    > I understand it, a good camera from the late 1980s that takes current lens
    > technology will do me as well as a brand new ELAN 7 will, yes?
    >
    > What do you think. Thanks for any suggestions.
    >
    >
    >

    It seems, that needs aside, you really WANT a film SLR camera. Yes, you
    get changeable lenses, at considerable expense, and through the lens
    viewing (which you ALREADY have on the F717). But if what you want it a
    film SLR, go for it! You might want to keep the digital also.
     
    Ron Hunter, Jan 19, 2004
    #4
  5. "Steven C (Doktersteve)" wrote:

    > OK. This might sound stupid.
    >
    > I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    > owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.
    >
    > When I bought it, I thought "good, now I wont have to buy anything else for
    > some time", but now I am starting to feel as though it is really not doing
    > the job for me I would like.
    > I have thought of this rationally, there are a few features that I can
    > simply love about the camera, such as its awesome macro capabilities, and
    > nice zeiss lens (whether it is just the coating or not, its a nice lens).
    >
    > But there are a few things that I don't like, one of them being the lack of
    > a changeable lens, a fixed 5x zoom, and a relatively tame "wide" angle zoom
    > out.
    >
    > Added to that, I still am paying this sucker off. I got it before the price
    > started to plummet, and I owe about 80% on it still.
    >
    > I don't really know if I would benefit very much from moving to the digital
    > rebel right now. That isn't to say that I am not interested in DSLR, quite
    > the opposite, I very much AM interested in it, but for now I feel for some
    > reason like I would do well to explore SLR in general, and that puzzles me.
    > I mean, there are all the added costs of developing, scanning (I don't have
    > a good scanner, I would get photo cd's made), and buying film.
    > I don't want to give up on digital, just to carry both camera's when I go
    > out, and use both of them for different things.
    >
    > I know that when I do go DSLR, I will go canon. It is a personal preference
    > that I have formed.
    > As such, I have been looking at getting myself a decent used canon which
    > takes EF mount lenses (so I can use the lenses on whatever DSLR I get in the
    > next few years).
    >
    > WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    > I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    > the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    > What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?
    >
    > I don't want to spend much more than $200 Canadian for a used camera, but as
    > I understand it, a good camera from the late 1980s that takes current lens
    > technology will do me as well as a brand new ELAN 7 will, yes?
    >
    > What do you think. Thanks for any suggestions.


    Why do you feel limited with a Sony 717. It is one helluva camera.
    What would you do with the Film SLR that you can't do with the 717?
    Of course, if you just WANT a film SLR, Hell! Just get one. You don't have to
    justify the logic to yourself or anyone else.
    If it will make you happy and give you pleasure, get one and have fun playing
    with it. That's what life is all about.
    Bob Williams
     
    Robert E. Williams, Jan 19, 2004
    #5
  6. "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" <> wrote in message news:<HsFOb.35145$n44.842@clgrps13>...
    > OK. This might sound stupid.
    >
    > I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    > owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.
    >
    > When I bought it, I thought "good, now I wont have to buy anything else for
    > some time", but now I am starting to feel as though it is really not doing
    > the job for me I would like.
    > I have thought of this rationally, there are a few features that I can
    > simply love about the camera, such as its awesome macro capabilities, and
    > nice zeiss lens (whether it is just the coating or not, its a nice lens).
    >
    > But there are a few things that I don't like, one of them being the lack of
    > a changeable lens, a fixed 5x zoom, and a relatively tame "wide" angle zoom
    > out.
    >
    > Added to that, I still am paying this sucker off. I got it before the price
    > started to plummet, and I owe about 80% on it still.
    >
    > I don't really know if I would benefit very much from moving to the digital
    > rebel right now. That isn't to say that I am not interested in DSLR, quite
    > the opposite, I very much AM interested in it, but for now I feel for some
    > reason like I would do well to explore SLR in general, and that puzzles me.
    > I mean, there are all the added costs of developing, scanning (I don't have
    > a good scanner, I would get photo cd's made), and buying film.
    > I don't want to give up on digital, just to carry both camera's when I go
    > out, and use both of them for different things.
    >
    > I know that when I do go DSLR, I will go canon. It is a personal preference
    > that I have formed.
    > As such, I have been looking at getting myself a decent used canon which
    > takes EF mount lenses (so I can use the lenses on whatever DSLR I get in the
    > next few years).
    >
    > WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    > I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    > the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    > What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?


    The EOS 850 is just as crippled in that it lacks a Quick Control Dial
    (thumb wheel on the back of the camera) to change the aperture. Same
    with the EOS 600 series. So, in that respect you'd be better off
    spending the extra money on a new Rebel.
    >
    > I don't want to spend much more than $200 Canadian for a used camera, but as
    > I understand it, a good camera from the late 1980s that takes current lens
    > technology will do me as well as a brand new ELAN 7 will, yes?


    Depends on if you do much in manual mode. This is where the QCD
    really shines. Without the QCD you need to press a button behind the
    lens mount and turn the exposure dial to change the aperture. Turning
    only the exposure dial will change the shutter speed in manual mode.
    >
    > What do you think. Thanks for any suggestions.


    If you shoot in Program and Priority modes most of the time any EOS
    will be fine. If you use manual mode even semi-frequently get one
    with a QCD.

    Michael
     
    street shooter, Jan 19, 2004
    #6
  7. Steven C \(Doktersteve\)

    Eatmorepies Guest


    > WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    > I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation

    on
    > the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    > What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?


    I'm in the UK and camera shops advertise lots of second hand EOS cameras. My
    600 series cost me £400 in 1989, they sell them in mint condition for £120 -
    it's a superb camera. In this country Minolta advertise brand new SLRs with
    2 zooms for £250; I don't know what they're like but I do know I wouldn't be
    without my EOS, it can do so much more than any digital I've yet to use.
    Play fair though, I haven't used a digital SLR. As I'm not going to pay
    £1000 to get one I haven't bothered doing any research on what they are
    capable of. I shall wait for DSLR to be closer in price to film SLRs before
    I replace the EOS.

    John
     
    Eatmorepies, Jan 19, 2004
    #7
  8. Steven C \(Doktersteve\)

    Drifter Guest

    >OK. This might sound stupid.
    >
    >I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    >owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.
    >
    >When I bought it, I thought "good, now I wont have to buy anything else for
    >some time", but now I am starting to feel as though it is really not doing
    >the job for me I would like.
    >I have thought of this rationally, there are a few features that I can
    >simply love about the camera, such as its awesome macro capabilities, and
    >nice zeiss lens (whether it is just the coating or not, its a nice lens).
    >
    >But there are a few things that I don't like, one of them being the lack of
    >a changeable lens, a fixed 5x zoom, and a relatively tame "wide" angle zoom
    >out.
    >
    >Added to that, I still am paying this sucker off. I got it before the price
    >started to plummet, and I owe about 80% on it still.

    ---->big snip<----

    Ummm, look I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you but maybe you
    need a small reality check. You've had this camera for a year and not
    only haven't you paid it off but you owe 80% (so you've paid what,
    $250 on a roughly $1200 camera if I remember right?).

    Honestly you should probably take a serious look at the way you run
    your finances before you go and spend even more money on another
    camera (and the lenses).

    Drifter
     
    Drifter, Jan 19, 2004
    #8
  9. Steven C \(Doktersteve\)

    Chris Brown Guest

    In article <buhcqq$i0114$-berlin.de>,
    Eatmorepies <> wrote:

    >Play fair though, I haven't used a digital SLR. As I'm not going to pay
    >£1000 to get one I haven't bothered doing any research on what they are
    >capable of.


    You don't need to - a 300D can be picked up new for under 800 quid if you
    shop around.
     
    Chris Brown, Jan 20, 2004
    #9
  10. Steven C \(Doktersteve\)

    Ben Blaukopf Guest

    "Chris Brown" <_uce_please.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <buhcqq$i0114$-berlin.de>,
    > Eatmorepies <> wrote:
    >
    > >Play fair though, I haven't used a digital SLR. As I'm not going to pay
    > >£1000 to get one I haven't bothered doing any research on what they are
    > >capable of.

    >
    > You don't need to - a 300D can be picked up new for under 800 quid if you
    > shop around.


    Doesn't take much shopping either. Amazon have the 300 with kit lens for
    800.
     
    Ben Blaukopf, Jan 21, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <>, Chris Brown
    <_uce_please.com> writes
    >In article <HsFOb.35145$n44.842@clgrps13>,
    >Steven C \(Doktersteve\) <> wrote:
    >>
    >>WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    >>I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    >>the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    >>What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?

    >
    >A friend of mine recently picked up a good deal on a secondhand EOS 50E. I
    >see quite a few EOS 50 and EOS 10s for sale in the "used equipment" section
    >of the photography shops I'm familliar with, and you could do a lot worse
    >than either of those.


    Agree with this recommendation. I have 2 EOS 10 bodies and think they
    still stand comparison with today's mid-range EOS models. My daughter
    also had a 50E for several years, also a fine camera.

    BTW (to original poster) it is a bit excessive to cross post to so many
    groups. FU set to r.p.e.35mm.
    --
    David Littlewood
     
    David Littlewood, Jan 21, 2004
    #11
  12. My advice is that you first evaluate your priorities, and get your
    lifestyle into better shape.

    You need to get out of debt, before you purchase unnecessary camera
    gear.

    > OK. This might sound stupid.
    >
    > I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    > owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.
    > <snip>
    > Added to that, I still am paying this sucker off. I got it before the price
    > started to plummet, and I owe about 80% on it still.
    >
    > I don't really know if I would benefit very much from moving to the digital
    > rebel right now. That isn't to say that I am not interested in DSLR, quite
    >
    > <snip>
    > I don't want to give up on digital, just to carry both camera's when I go
    > out, and use both of them for different things.
    >
    > <snip>
    > WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    >


    Let's see now...
    You write that during the past ten months you were able to pay only
    20% of the US$708 (Sony Cybershot DSC-F717 camera) cost, and yet you
    now want to buy a US$899 camera (Canon EOS 300D Digital Rebel).

    You already have experienced the dramatic depreciation that comes
    hand-in-hand with digital photography. You might still owe more to
    the bank (at 18%-20% compound interest?) than what your depreciated
    F717 attracts on the used market.

    The charge card bank might profit from your purchases, but digital
    photography just might lead towards your financial ruination.

    Of course, the others posting to this forum are nothing other than
    enablers of your addictive behavior. <grin>

    One of the first rules about being a gearhead addict is to be able to
    afford what it costs to play in the photography sandbox.
    ___________________
    ___________________

    "Steven C \(Doktersteve\)" <> wrote in message news:<HsFOb.35145$n44.842@clgrps13>...
    > OK. This might sound stupid.
    >
    > I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    > owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.
    >
    > When I bought it, I thought "good, now I wont have to buy anything else for
    > some time", but now I am starting to feel as though it is really not doing
    > the job for me I would like.
    > I have thought of this rationally, there are a few features that I can
    > simply love about the camera, such as its awesome macro capabilities, and
    > nice zeiss lens (whether it is just the coating or not, its a nice lens).
    >
    > But there are a few things that I don't like, one of them being the lack of
    > a changeable lens, a fixed 5x zoom, and a relatively tame "wide" angle zoom
    > out.
    >
    > Added to that, I still am paying this sucker off. I got it before the price
    > started to plummet, and I owe about 80% on it still.
    >
    > I don't really know if I would benefit very much from moving to the digital
    > rebel right now. That isn't to say that I am not interested in DSLR, quite
    > the opposite, I very much AM interested in it, but for now I feel for some
    > reason like I would do well to explore SLR in general, and that puzzles me.
    > I mean, there are all the added costs of developing, scanning (I don't have
    > a good scanner, I would get photo cd's made), and buying film.
    > I don't want to give up on digital, just to carry both camera's when I go
    > out, and use both of them for different things.
    >
    > I know that when I do go DSLR, I will go canon. It is a personal preference
    > that I have formed.
    > As such, I have been looking at getting myself a decent used canon which
    > takes EF mount lenses (so I can use the lenses on whatever DSLR I get in the
    > next few years).
    >
    > WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?
    > I was looking at the EOS Kiss, until I found out it was just a variation on
    > the rebel, which as I understand it is a crippled camera for consumers.
    > What about the late 1980's type cameras? The EOS-850 for instance?
    >
    > I don't want to spend much more than $200 Canadian for a used camera, but as
    > I understand it, a good camera from the late 1980s that takes current lens
    > technology will do me as well as a brand new ELAN 7 will, yes?
    >
    > What do you think. Thanks for any suggestions.
     
    camera critter, Feb 12, 2004
    #12
  13. Don't be so quick to write of the Canon Rebel Ti (aka 300V).

    If I were you I'd first ask what you are using the camera for. If its
    landscapes and portraits then it really is worth thinking of going
    digital because you can't beat them for this kind of photography. If
    its wildlife/sports/action then you aren't going to get anything that
    will fulfil your needs at any price less than the budget of a small
    nation, and a film camera will be good (only?) choice.

    I've owned the 300V for a year now (my first camera) and have been
    delighted with it. Bear in mine that the real investment is in the
    lenses/tripod not the camera. If its going to get bashed about in the
    field, and in six months time you going to be wanting more features,
    then by a cheap body and run it into the ground - then in a couple of
    years buy a camera worthy of your skills.

    I've no regrets buying the canon 300V. It gives me all the feautres I
    need to experiment with and the lens collection I've amassed I'll use
    when I get my next EOS.

    Rachel
     
    Rachel Koktava, Feb 13, 2004
    #13
  14. Re: WHY?!? Why am i thinking i need an SLR, and thinking of going35mm?

    camera critter wrote:

    >>OK. This might sound stupid.
    >>
    >>I have a sony dsc F717, and I use it quite a bit. I like the camera. I have
    >>owned it since last April, and so I am going on a year with it.
    >><snip>
    >>WHAT ARE GOOD OPTIONS FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME?


    In short: Stop obsessing over the camera's supposed shortcomings. The
    specific equipment DOESN'T MATTER! Worry instead about composing and
    taking good pictures.

    > Let's see now...
    > You write that during the past ten months you were able to pay only
    > 20% of the US$708 (Sony Cybershot DSC-F717 camera) cost, and yet you
    > now want to buy a US$899 camera (Canon EOS 300D Digital Rebel).
    >
    > You already have experienced the dramatic depreciation that comes
    > hand-in-hand with digital photography.
    >
    > The charge card bank might profit from your purchases, but digital
    > photography just might lead towards your financial ruination.


    Heed his warning! ;)

    > Of course, the others posting to this forum are nothing other than
    > enablers of your addictive behavior. <grin>


    Whatever you do, DO NOT visit
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CanonFD/messages
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NikonMF/messages
    or any other groupd of 'enabling' nutcases.

    > One of the first rules about being a gearhead addict is to be able to
    > afford what it costs to play in the photography sandbox.


    Heh...

    If you MUST buy 35mm film equipment, start with a cheap, primitive,
    manual everything camera. Who cares if the equipment is 'obsolete,' it
    is dirt cheap and takes fantastic pictures. Besides saving a ton of
    money, I think the 'primitive' mindset will do you some good. Play with
    it for a few months, THEN decide if you still feel the need to drop a
    sh*tload on the latest and greatest automagic offering. If you decide
    you don't like the old camera, you can sell it for what you paid.

    Canon, Nikon, Oly, etc. all produced a wide variety of sturdy,
    functional equipment. Message boards like the two mentioned above are a
    good source of info for older equipment. I recenty found an excellent
    AE-1P with a nearly-new 28mm Canon FD lens for $120 at the local camera
    shop. (Using the old clunker is strangely satisfying; I've actually
    left my wizz-bang T90 at home a time or two.) If you're willing to
    brave ebay, even better deals can be found.

    Remember, it's not the camera that takes the picture.

    -Greg
     
    Greg Campbell, Feb 13, 2004
    #14
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