Why us T-bird instead of OE? Serious question.

Discussion in 'Firefox' started by J, Feb 6, 2005.

  1. J

    J Guest

    Okay -- for two months I have been using Firefox and Thunderbird.
    Firefox is fine -- I do not miss the popups that FF blocks and I no
    longer have to run AdAware and SpyBot to clean up the mess, although I
    still run both applications once a week just to check (when using IE, I
    ran both apps daily to clean out the trash).

    My question is about security issues with Outlook Express. I prefer OE
    to Thunderbird mainly because I find the OE message rules easier to
    build and modify than Thunderbird's filters. It may just be a learning
    curve thing but I still prefer OE.

    If I use FF as my browser and OE as my mail and newsreader, am I
    defeating the security advantages of FF?

    Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?

    Thanks.
    J, Feb 6, 2005
    #1
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  2. J

    Drude Guest

    Re: Why use T-bird instead of OE? Serious question.

    "J" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Okay -- for two months I have been using Firefox and Thunderbird. Firefox
    > is fine -- I do not miss the popups that FF blocks and I no longer have to
    > run AdAware and SpyBot to clean up the mess, although I still run both
    > applications once a week just to check (when using IE, I ran both apps
    > daily to clean out the trash).
    >
    > My question is about security issues with Outlook Express. I prefer OE to
    > Thunderbird mainly because I find the OE message rules easier to build and
    > modify than Thunderbird's filters. It may just be a learning curve thing
    > but I still prefer OE.
    >
    > If I use FF as my browser and OE as my mail and newsreader, am I defeating
    > the security advantages of FF?
    >
    > Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?
    >
    > Thanks.


    I use Firefox and OE.

    I tried Tbird for awhile, and there's really nothing wrong with it, but it
    isn't as useful for viewing Newsgroups...especially binaries (can't view
    multi-part binaries or yenc posts without a fairly lengthy workaround, for
    instance). It also seems to have some issues with the way it displays
    Newsgroups (forgets views, sorted-by, that sort of thing). And, since I'm
    on Newsgroups so often, Tbird was just becoming a nuisance.

    For simply sending and receiving emails, though, it was fine. I actually
    prefer a couple of things about Tbird, but they weren't enough to make me
    permanently switch.

    I don't think you're defeating the securities advantages of FF by using OE.
    If you know how to receive email without infecting your system -- THAT'S the
    main security problem with OE or any other email program. Don't forget that
    a lot of the security issues we read about are the result of an
    overly-paranoid public being scared into thinking that at every turn there's
    some horrible virus attempting to destroy their computer, when the reality
    is, with the exception of the occasional ad or bit of spyware (which are
    relatively harmless - they're not going to format your hard drive or
    anything), most people never or rarely get infected. Unless they are doing
    things that common sense tells them they shouldn't do. For instance, I
    hadn't had a single pop-up on IE in nearly three years, because I installed
    the right stuff and ensured that my settings were a certain way to avoid
    them in the first place. I also have NEVER had a virus, and have had only
    minor encounters with spyware / adware.

    I still think that the 'security flaws' in IE are mostly the fault of the
    users, not the program itself...although it is true that even an
    inexperienced user would have a harder time infecting themselves with FF.
    That being said, though, FF is still new (for the majority of users, anyway)
    and a) someone who doesn't know what they're doing could still download
    viruses and spyware into their computer by being foolish, and b) because
    it's so new, I am positive that given time, we will start to see some of the
    same security flaws that we complain about with IE, and those who want to
    cause trouble will figure out how to utilize FF to cause that trouble.

    Anyway, sorry I got off on a rant there.... No, I don't think you have to
    worry about using OE with FF. Although I'm sure someone else will pipe-up
    and tell you all about the evils of OE any minute now!!!

    Drude
    Drude, Feb 6, 2005
    #2
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  3. J

    Z Guest

    J wrote:
    > Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?


    One feature I like is that TB allows for HTML viewing of e-mail w/o
    loading remote images. All the benefits of HTML w/ none of the risks.

    And, if the sender is trusted, a single click will load the images.
    Z, Feb 6, 2005
    #3
  4. J

    Drude Guest

    "Z" <> wrote in message news:e0uNd.10027$...
    >J wrote:
    >> Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?

    >
    > One feature I like is that TB allows for HTML viewing of e-mail w/o
    > loading remote images. All the benefits of HTML w/ none of the risks.
    >
    > And, if the sender is trusted, a single click will load the images.


    OE has that too, since SP2.

    Drude
    Drude, Feb 6, 2005
    #4
  5. J

    Clarkson Guest

    J wrote:
    > Okay -- for two months I have been using Firefox and Thunderbird.
    > Firefox is fine -- I do not miss the popups that FF blocks and I no
    > longer have to run AdAware and SpyBot to clean up the mess, although I
    > still run both applications once a week just to check (when using IE, I
    > ran both apps daily to clean out the trash).
    >
    > My question is about security issues with Outlook Express. I prefer OE
    > to Thunderbird mainly because I find the OE message rules easier to
    > build and modify than Thunderbird's filters. It may just be a learning
    > curve thing but I still prefer OE.
    >
    > If I use FF as my browser and OE as my mail and newsreader, am I
    > defeating the security advantages of FF?
    >
    > Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?
    >
    > Thanks.

    I'd been using FF for a while, I have never liked the way that IE used
    HTML, it's also far too big, FF is smoother and more secure.

    I moved over to TB when Windows Update fried my PC, with all the bloaty
    security updates for OE and IE. That's when I figured stuff Microsoft
    if their browser and mail client need this much constant updating they
    can't be much kop in the first place. So I ditched the lot OE,
    Messenger and Media Player completely uninstalled, I kept IE for Windows
    Update and because I had no choice. I replaced IE with FF, OE with TB,
    Media Player with WinAmp and messenger with Qnext, which is great you
    can access MSN, AIM, Yahoo and ICQ chat networks simultaneously. It can
    be used as a peer to peer file transfer client too.

    Now I have ditched all the MS stuff, my PC runs faster, boots faster and
    my whole internet experience is much smoother and safer. Basically
    Microsoft make half decent operating systems and office software, but
    their web suite sucks.

    Cheers.
    Clarkson, Feb 6, 2005
    #5
  6. J

    Robin T Cox Guest

    "Drude" <> wrote in
    news:xLuNd.294815$8l.120467@pd7tw1no:

    >
    > "Z" <> wrote in message news:e0uNd.10027$...
    >>J wrote:
    >>> Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?

    >>
    >> One feature I like is that TB allows for HTML viewing of e-mail w/o
    >> loading remote images. All the benefits of HTML w/ none of the risks.
    >>
    >> And, if the sender is trusted, a single click will load the images.

    >
    > OE has that too, since SP2.
    >
    > Drude
    >
    >


    At a price ...

    http://news.com.com/Microsoft to secure IE for XP only/2100-1032_3-
    5378366.html
    Robin T Cox, Feb 7, 2005
    #6
  7. > So I ditched the lot OE,
    > Messenger and Media Player completely uninstalled, I kept IE for Windows
    > Update and because I had no choice. I replaced IE with FF, OE with TB,
    > Media Player with WinAmp and messenger with Qnext ...


    I did the same except I use trillian instead of Qnext and have never
    looked back since. It is so much faster, compact and lighter.
    King of Red Lions, Feb 7, 2005
    #7
  8. J

    Drude Guest

    > At a price ...
    >
    > http://news.com.com/Microsoft to secure IE for XP only/2100-1032_3-
    > 5378366.html


    Oh, I agree...it'd MS doing the money grab again....

    But still, most people by now have downloaded SP2. And the feature I spoke
    of is available if you have SP2.

    Whether MS wants to shoot themselves in the foot and force people to switch
    to other browsers is their problem and has little to do with what I was
    talking about.

    -Drude
    Drude, Feb 7, 2005
    #8
  9. On 2005-02-06, Drude <> wrote:

    >>> Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?

    >>
    >> One feature I like is that TB allows for HTML viewing of e-mail w/o
    >> loading remote images. All the benefits of HTML w/ none of the risks.
    >>
    >> And, if the sender is trusted, a single click will load the images.


    > OE has that too, since SP2.


    But that still leaves out the tens of millions of non-XP Windows users who
    don't feel they should have to shell out a hundred bucks and suffer
    through the pain of updating and patching their OS just so they don't have
    to worry about issues they shouldn't have had to worry about in the first
    place. For many people, the value simply isn't there to justify going to
    XP.

    --

    John ()
    John Thompson, Feb 9, 2005
    #9
  10. On 2005-02-06, J <> wrote:

    > If I use FF as my browser and OE as my mail and newsreader, am I
    > defeating the security advantages of FF?


    No, but you're missing the security advantages of Thunderbird.

    > Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?


    OE is little more than a mail interface extension to IE; it is still
    vulnerable to the same exploits IE suffers, particularly if you use html
    mail and allow scripting, ActiveX and such like.

    --

    John ()
    John Thompson, Feb 9, 2005
    #10
  11. J

    Ed Mullen Guest

    John Thompson wrote:
    > On 2005-02-06, Drude <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>>Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?
    >>>
    >>>One feature I like is that TB allows for HTML viewing of e-mail w/o
    >>>loading remote images. All the benefits of HTML w/ none of the risks.
    >>>
    >>>And, if the sender is trusted, a single click will load the images.

    >
    >
    >>OE has that too, since SP2.

    >
    >
    > But that still leaves out the tens of millions of non-XP Windows users who
    > don't feel they should have to shell out a hundred bucks and suffer
    > through the pain of updating and patching their OS just so they don't have
    > to worry about issues they shouldn't have had to worry about in the first
    > place. For many people, the value simply isn't there to justify going to
    > XP.
    >


    "pain of updating"??? The only possible pain is suffered by slow dialup
    connections and/or those who refuse to figure out how to secure their
    systems. On Windows (98SE and XP) the update process for me, on several
    systems, has been virtually painless. And one time when I did have an
    ongoing problem with Windows Update I posted a query via the MS support
    mechanism and got a phone call within a day from a tech who worked with
    me to resolve the problem. It pays to be nice.

    Sorry, the overwhelming evidence is that XP is a far superior OS for
    most people. Yes, there are installation caveats as there are with any
    program. Research and take care and it is well worth it, MS paranoia
    and irrational hatred aside.

    It sure would be nice if the world's biggest corporations were as
    responsive as our nice next-door neighbor. Ain't ever gonna happen. But
    I'd rather have MS and it's resources there if I need them. And, yes, I
    CAN figure out how to get to them. And, yes, they DO respond.

    Enough with the paranoia and bashing. Computers aren't toasters. Yeah,
    you can buy one at Walmart but that doesn't change the paradigm that
    puts a huge onus of responsibility on the user. As soon as users get
    over that mis-conception the better off we'll be because it'll be
    another 10 or 20 years before PCs approach the simplicity of an
    appliance. Users have to accept much more responsibility for their
    systems and their selves if they hope to survive. Either that or just
    sell the darned things and wait for the postman to arrive.

    Sorry for the rant. I'm just weary of all the paranoia and reactionary
    condemnation of a successful company and its very viable products. Life
    ain't perfect. Right. Get over it and learn to live.

    On the other hand, I know I'm spitting into the wind. The average
    person wants it all without expenditure of any effort. Good luck in
    life is all I can say.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://edmullen.net/moz.html
    Bureaucracy: a method of turning energy into solid waste.
    Ed Mullen, Feb 9, 2005
    #11
  12. J

    Splibbilla Guest

    John Thompson <2.dhs.org> in news:2.dhs.org:

    > On 2005-02-06, J <> wrote:
    >
    >> If I use FF as my browser and OE as my mail and newsreader, am I
    >> defeating the security advantages of FF?

    >
    > No, but you're missing the security advantages of Thunderbird.
    >
    >> Why do I want to use T-bird instead of OE?

    >
    > OE is little more than a mail interface extension to IE; it is still
    > vulnerable to the same exploits IE suffers, particularly if you use html
    > mail and allow scripting, ActiveX and such like.



    kill *all* script,etc settings in internet zone of internet options, espec since there's no need in oe. be sure oe's set for internet
    zone. (= most strict avail to oe. ie also has restricted zone, but i don't think you can choose that for oe)

    but allow minimum workable winupdate settings in trusted zone, and add winupdate sites to that zone.
    Splibbilla, Feb 9, 2005
    #12
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