why the high traffic?

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply, Oct 31, 2005.

  1. Why is this newsgroup so active?

    In Germany, my ISP (1&1, a member of United Internet) offers VOIP at no
    extra charge for DSL customers. I have a DSL flatrate for EUR 10 per
    month, and pay EUR 25 per month for a 6016/512 downstream/upstream
    connection (and, in another flat, EUR 10 for a flatrate and EUR 17 for a
    1024/128 connection). VOIP costs 1 cent per minute to land lines in
    Germany. I spent about 85 cents last month.

    For EUR 10 per month, one can have a VOIP flatrate to land lines in
    Germany. Obviously, this requires about half an hour on the phone per
    day to make it worthwhile.

    I haven't tried it yet on the 1024/128 line (what do people here
    think?), but on the fast line I notice no difference in quality compared
    to the ISDN connection (which I still have, though I could get rid of
    it).

    For mobile phones and foreign countries, call-by-call companies are
    cheaper than the VOIP rate of 1&1 (though these call-by-call folks might
    use VOIP behind the scenes, for all I know). However, with a
    combination
    modem/bridge/switch/router/authenticator/encapsulator/telephone adapter,
    one can specify whether VOIP or ISDN should be used, based on the first
    however many digits of a number. (One can override this by typing, say,
    #121* before the number and one can also default one phone to VOIP and
    one to ISDN.)

    All this took less than an hour to set up, and it JUST WORKS. Thus, I'm
    wondering whether the situation in the UK is more complicated, producing
    so much traffic in this group.

    There is talk of DSL connections being offered independently of
    telephone connections. I might go this route. At the moment, I like to
    keep ISDN so that I can still use the phone if there is a problem with
    the DSL connection, but this is rare and in any case for real
    emergencies I can use my mobile.
    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply, Oct 31, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:12:16 +0000 (UTC),
    (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to
    reply) wrote:

    >Why is this newsgroup so active?


    because people are experimenting with a large number of services on a
    wide range of hardware in multiple network situations doing things
    like combining free incoming numbers on one service with the cheapest
    outgoing provider on another.

    You appear to be happy using one service on one box and similar people
    in the UK wouldn't be posting here either. If you had added an
    "encapsulator" to an existing system your experiences may have been
    less simple.

    Phil
    --

    Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
    No more cable clowns :))
    Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.
    Phil Thompson, Oct 31, 2005
    #2
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  3. Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply

    Chris Guest

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > Why is this newsgroup so active?
    >
    > In Germany, my ISP (1&1, a member of United Internet) offers VOIP at
    > no extra charge for DSL customers. I have a DSL flatrate for EUR 10
    > per month, and pay EUR 25 per month for a 6016/512
    > downstream/upstream connection (and, in another flat, EUR 10 for a
    > flatrate and EUR 17 for a 1024/128 connection). VOIP costs 1 cent
    > per minute to land lines in Germany. I spent about 85 cents last
    > month.
    >
    > For EUR 10 per month, one can have a VOIP flatrate to land lines in
    > Germany. Obviously, this requires about half an hour on the phone
    > per day to make it worthwhile.


    EUR 10 a month is a lot to pay for phone service if all you're getting
    is calls to landlines. If you do call landlines for at least half an
    hour a day, Sipgate will do 1000 minutes a month for EUR 8.90. Otherwise
    you'd be better off with broadband and running a separate SIP account.

    > I haven't tried it yet on the 1024/128 line (what do people here
    > think?), but on the fast line I notice no difference in quality
    > compared to the ISDN connection (which I still have, though I could
    > get rid of it).


    What would Telekom charge you for the line if you kept ADSL, but without
    telephone service?

    > For mobile phones and foreign countries, call-by-call companies are
    > cheaper than the VOIP rate of 1&1 (though these call-by-call folks
    > might use VOIP behind the scenes, for all I know).


    We call it 'carrier selection'.

    > However, with a combination
    > modem/bridge/switch/router/authenticator/encapsulator/telephone
    > adapter, one can specify whether VOIP or ISDN should be used, based
    > on the first however many digits of a number. (One can override this
    > by typing, say, #121* before the number and one can also default one
    > phone to VOIP and one to ISDN.)
    >
    > All this took less than an hour to set up, and it JUST WORKS. Thus,
    > I'm wondering whether the situation in the UK is more complicated,
    > producing so much traffic in this group.


    Basically the same. Except that carrier select calls don't appear on
    your BT bill. You get billed directly by the carrier selected for your
    calls.

    > There is talk of DSL connections being offered independently of
    > telephone connections. I might go this route. At the moment, I like
    > to keep ISDN so that I can still use the phone if there is a problem
    > with the DSL connection, but this is rare and in any case for real
    > emergencies I can use my mobile.


    Maybe you can put your phone on a budget tariff, although this is more
    likely to be possible with a POTS line than with ISDN.
    Chris, Oct 31, 2005
    #3
  4. In article <>, Chris
    <> writes:

    > > For EUR 10 per month, one can have a VOIP flatrate to land lines in
    > > Germany. Obviously, this requires about half an hour on the phone
    > > per day to make it worthwhile.

    >
    > EUR 10 a month is a lot to pay for phone service if all you're getting
    > is calls to landlines. If you do call landlines for at least half an
    > hour a day, Sipgate will do 1000 minutes a month for EUR 8.90.


    That's about the same price.

    > Otherwise
    > you'd be better off with broadband and running a separate SIP account.


    For EUR 10, you could be on the phone 24 hours a day (to land lines);
    half an hour per day is the break-even point if the rate is 1 cent per
    minute.

    For new customers, they are now offering the land-line flate rate for
    free for the first year.

    > > I haven't tried it yet on the 1024/128 line (what do people here
    > > think?),


    Apparently VOIP consumes about 1 MB/minute. That's about 70 kb/s in
    each direction, which I suppose leaves about 60 kb/s for the normal
    internet connection with a 1024/128 line.

    > but on the fast line I notice no difference in quality
    > > compared to the ISDN connection (which I still have, though I could
    > > get rid of it).

    >
    > What would Telekom charge you for the line if you kept ADSL, but without
    > telephone service?


    That's not possible at the moment:

    > > There is talk of DSL connections being offered independently of
    > > telephone connections. I might go this route. At the moment, I like
    > > to keep ISDN so that I can still use the phone if there is a problem
    > > with the DSL connection, but this is rare and in any case for real
    > > emergencies I can use my mobile.


    Due to some pressure from the EU, the Telekom will probably soon be
    required to offer DSL independently of a conventional telephone
    connection. (Originally, it was offered only in conjunction with ISDN.
    Of course, neither makes technical sense. It's all about trying to
    increase revenues, one of the bad effects of privatisation. I think one
    should either have the state run things with no need to make a profit OR
    have things private with real competition. Private things without
    competition are a recipe for disaster. With the telephone system, we
    will probably see real competition soon. With the trains, real
    competition is probably not possible, since one can't have separate
    tracks, train stations etc, so I think that train service will continue
    to deteriorate as it has since privatisation, whereas telephone service
    will probably become better as competition increases.)

    Can one get DSL independent of telephone in the UK?

    It IS possible here, but not from the Telekom, but by companies which
    operate completely independently of the Telekom (almost all DSL
    connections are from the Telekom, though many are resold through other
    providers, which doesn't matter technically but can be a plus in terms
    of service, especially if one company is responsible for everything).
    Most houses have 4 wires but the Telekom only uses 2, so another company
    can set up a DSL (or other) connection on the other 2 wires,
    independently of the Telekom with no need for rewiring the house.

    When I checked about 3 years ago, the best I found was 384/384 for about
    EUR 80 per month. That might be vastly cheaper now, I don't know.

    > > However, with a combination
    > > modem/bridge/switch/router/authenticator/encapsulator/telephone
    > > adapter, one can specify whether VOIP or ISDN should be used, based
    > > on the first however many digits of a number. (One can override this
    > > by typing, say, #121* before the number and one can also default one
    > > phone to VOIP and one to ISDN.)
    > >
    > > All this took less than an hour to set up, and it JUST WORKS. Thus,
    > > I'm wondering whether the situation in the UK is more complicated,
    > > producing so much traffic in this group.

    >
    > Basically the same. Except that carrier select calls don't appear on
    > your BT bill. You get billed directly by the carrier selected for your
    > calls.


    Here, they still appear on the Telekom bill. The Telekom is required to
    do this in return for the monopoly it still has in some areas.

    Still, if everything works fine, why the high traffic in the group?
    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply, Nov 1, 2005
    #4
  5. On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:

    > Apparently VOIP consumes about 1 MB/minute. That's about 70 kb/s in
    > each direction,


    That would be dominated by the G.711 codec, which uses 64kb/s
    each way.

    > which I suppose leaves about 60 kb/s for the normal
    > internet connection with a 1024/128 line.


    Normal uplink speed in the UK seems to be 256 - we get quite a fair
    H.323 videoconference at that speed (it's best if the end points can
    negotiate a more efficient audio codec than G.711, though, leaving
    more bandwidth for the video).

    > Can one get DSL independent of telephone in the UK?


    For home Internet access, you mean? (As opposed to business-class
    leased lines and stuff...). I don't know the exact answer to that, but
    it's not something I've encountered. Most broadband provision in the
    UK is either ADSL over analogue phone line, or Cable TV. The only
    folks I know who got broadband without anything else, got cable TV
    without the TV, if you see what I mean.
    Alan J. Flavell, Nov 1, 2005
    #5
  6. Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply

    Brian A Guest

    On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:37:22 +0000, "Alan J. Flavell"
    <> wrote:


    >
    >> Can one get DSL independent of telephone in the UK?

    >

    Yes if you get it from Telewest cable.
    Currently BT don't do it but lots of people would just love it if it
    was available.


    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    Brian A, Nov 1, 2005
    #6
  7. On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 18:49:51 +0000 (UTC),
    (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to
    reply) wrote:

    >Can one get DSL independent of telephone in the UK?


    one pays line rental and then on top of that one pays a combined fee
    for the ISP service and ADSL connection over the line.

    If you make calls they cost extra on top.

    As the line rental is for the cost of the line the saving through not
    having the ability to make calls will be very small, zero or even
    negative.

    Phil
    --

    Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
    No more cable clowns :))
    Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.
    Phil Thompson, Nov 2, 2005
    #7
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