Why Portraits Go Wrong Through Miscoloration

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by David Virgil Hobbs, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. WHY PORTRAITS GO WRONG THROUGH MISCOLORATION

    The higher color temperatures, are the colder temperatures like blue;
    the lower color temperatures are the warmer color temps like red.
    Yellow is a higher color temp than red, white is a higher color temp
    than yellow, and blue is a colder higher color temperature than white.

    To a camera whose white balance is set to tungsten, objects shot in
    sunlight will have a bluish tint. This is because the tungsten white
    balance, makes colors look higher temp or colder, so that they will
    not look yellowish-red, due to the low warm color temperature of
    tungsten light.

    To a camera whose white balance is set to tungsten, objects shot with
    flash will have a bluish tint. This is because the tungsten white
    balance, makes colors look higher temp or colder, so that they will
    not look yellowish-red, due to the low warm color temperature of
    tungsten light.

    To a flash white balance, objects in tungsten light will appear
    yellow-red. This is because the flash white balance does not colden
    the tungsten light to in effect raise its temperature, because to do
    so would make the flash produced light look bluish.

    So when tungsten and flash are both used together, one might expect
    auto white balance, to result in flash looking a little bluish while
    the tungsten looked a little yellow-reddish. That is, one might expect
    the auto balance to colden up the yellow-red colors produced by the
    tungsten a little, but not enough to take the yellow red color out of
    the shot, while at the same time one would expect it to in the process
    of partially solving the tungsten yellow-red problem, make the colder
    flash produced light even colder resulting in bluish tints produced by
    the flash.

    As a result in a shot combining flash and tungsten, one might expect
    the following colors:

    Tungsten bounced off objects, indirect: reddish
    Direct tungsten: yellowish
    Flash bounced off objects: whitish
    Direct flash: bluish

    This is because the bounced indirect tungsten has a lower temp warmer
    redder color than the yellowish direct tungsten; and because the
    direct flash has a higher colder bluer color temperature than the
    indirect bounced flash.

    250 200 150 is a light brown type color often found in human skin.

    Mixed with white, this color is, 255 227 202 which is a pale brown
    almost off-white.

    Mixed with yellow, this color is, 255, 227, 75 a kind of dark yellow
    color.

    Mixed with red, this color is, 255 100 75 a red that looks like basic
    red.

    Mixed with blue, this color is, 255 100 202 a light pink color.

    So you can see how with mixed lighting, combining flash and tungsten,
    you could end up with the distortion of areas of the face that should
    all look the same color, being portrayed by the camera as something
    pale brown, dark yellow, red, or light pink, depending upon the source
    of light that dominated in lighting up that particular area of the
    face.

    And you can see how even without mixing lighting, that is, using
    tungsten or flash alone, you could still end up with distortion, due
    to the difference between light traveling directly from its source to
    the subject, and light bouncing off an object before hitting the
    subject. For example with tungsten alone, areas of the face that
    should be the same color could be split up into yellowish and reddish,
    and with flash alone, areas of the face that should be the same color
    could be split up into pale brown and pale pink areas.

    This kind of miscoloration of the subject's face, results in
    hypercontrast, as differences from area to area of the face are
    accentuated, and as such differences are created where in fact no such
    differences exist in the perception of the human eye.

    Last time out I solved this problem in a tungsten/flash photo by
    hypersaturating in Nikon Picture Project until the face turned red and
    lost excessive contrast, and then desaturating and correcting color
    balance in HP Image Zone Plus. As far as I can tell what happened was
    that by hypersaturating I allowed the dominant colors to become even
    more dominant thereby wiping out artificially produced hyper-contrast.
    Surprisingly enough though there was plenty of direct tungsten and
    flash lighting in the shot I corrected, the dominant color as
    saturation was increased turned out to be red representing indirect
    tungsten light.





    @2004 David Virgil Hobbs
    http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon

    NOTE: After my last post to this newsgroup, there were hundreds of
    hits on my index page whose link is listed here. At that time the
    photo on this page had nothing to do with the photography I was
    discussing. Since then I have changed the photo on my index page to a
    new photo, the photo I talk about fixing in this post and in my
    previous post to this group. In its current form this photo is quite
    desaturated I will eventually get around to getting more color into
    it.
    David Virgil Hobbs, Nov 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. David Virgil Hobbs

    Mark² Guest

    "David Virgil Hobbs" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    Idiot.
    Mark², Nov 18, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. David Virgil Hobbs

    Frank ess Guest

    Nice analysis. thank you.



    My examples from 11-11-2004:



    All red-like from the tungsten over the stage:

    http://www.fototime.com/FEE937EF5D94A5E/orig.jpg

    De-saturated to near-normal on the tungsten-lit majority, but look at
    the man facing us, who was apparently shielded from all but the flash...
    http://www.fototime.com/309DEB6073ECA40/orig.jpg

    --
    Frank ess
    ===================================
    David Virgil Hobbs wrote:
    > WHY PORTRAITS GO WRONG THROUGH MISCOLORATION
    >
    > The higher color temperatures, are the colder temperatures like blue;
    > the lower color temperatures are the warmer color temps like red.
    > Yellow is a higher color temp than red, white is a higher color temp
    > than yellow, and blue is a colder higher color temperature than white.
    >
    > To a camera whose white balance is set to tungsten, objects shot in
    > sunlight will have a bluish tint. This is because the tungsten white
    > balance, makes colors look higher temp or colder, so that they will
    > not look yellowish-red, due to the low warm color temperature of
    > tungsten light.
    >
    > To a camera whose white balance is set to tungsten, objects shot with
    > flash will have a bluish tint. This is because the tungsten white
    > balance, makes colors look higher temp or colder, so that they will
    > not look yellowish-red, due to the low warm color temperature of
    > tungsten light.
    >
    > To a flash white balance, objects in tungsten light will appear
    > yellow-red. This is because the flash white balance does not colden
    > the tungsten light to in effect raise its temperature, because to do
    > so would make the flash produced light look bluish.
    >
    > So when tungsten and flash are both used together, one might expect
    > auto white balance, to result in flash looking a little bluish while
    > the tungsten looked a little yellow-reddish. That is, one might expect
    > the auto balance to colden up the yellow-red colors produced by the
    > tungsten a little, but not enough to take the yellow red color out of
    > the shot, while at the same time one would expect it to in the process
    > of partially solving the tungsten yellow-red problem, make the colder
    > flash produced light even colder resulting in bluish tints produced by
    > the flash.
    >
    > As a result in a shot combining flash and tungsten, one might expect
    > the following colors:
    >
    > Tungsten bounced off objects, indirect: reddish
    > Direct tungsten: yellowish
    > Flash bounced off objects: whitish
    > Direct flash: bluish
    >
    > This is because the bounced indirect tungsten has a lower temp warmer
    > redder color than the yellowish direct tungsten; and because the
    > direct flash has a higher colder bluer color temperature than the
    > indirect bounced flash.
    >
    > 250 200 150 is a light brown type color often found in human skin.
    >
    > Mixed with white, this color is, 255 227 202 which is a pale brown
    > almost off-white.
    >
    > Mixed with yellow, this color is, 255, 227, 75 a kind of dark yellow
    > color.
    >
    > Mixed with red, this color is, 255 100 75 a red that looks like basic
    > red.
    >
    > Mixed with blue, this color is, 255 100 202 a light pink color.
    >
    > So you can see how with mixed lighting, combining flash and tungsten,
    > you could end up with the distortion of areas of the face that should
    > all look the same color, being portrayed by the camera as something
    > pale brown, dark yellow, red, or light pink, depending upon the source
    > of light that dominated in lighting up that particular area of the
    > face.
    >
    > And you can see how even without mixing lighting, that is, using
    > tungsten or flash alone, you could still end up with distortion, due
    > to the difference between light traveling directly from its source to
    > the subject, and light bouncing off an object before hitting the
    > subject. For example with tungsten alone, areas of the face that
    > should be the same color could be split up into yellowish and reddish,
    > and with flash alone, areas of the face that should be the same color
    > could be split up into pale brown and pale pink areas.
    >
    > This kind of miscoloration of the subject's face, results in
    > hypercontrast, as differences from area to area of the face are
    > accentuated, and as such differences are created where in fact no such
    > differences exist in the perception of the human eye.
    >
    > Last time out I solved this problem in a tungsten/flash photo by
    > hypersaturating in Nikon Picture Project until the face turned red and
    > lost excessive contrast, and then desaturating and correcting color
    > balance in HP Image Zone Plus. As far as I can tell what happened was
    > that by hypersaturating I allowed the dominant colors to become even
    > more dominant thereby wiping out artificially produced hyper-contrast.
    > Surprisingly enough though there was plenty of direct tungsten and
    > flash lighting in the shot I corrected, the dominant color as
    > saturation was increased turned out to be red representing indirect
    > tungsten light.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > @2004 David Virgil Hobbs
    > http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon
    >
    > NOTE: After my last post to this newsgroup, there were hundreds of
    > hits on my index page whose link is listed here. At that time the
    > photo on this page had nothing to do with the photography I was
    > discussing. Since then I have changed the photo on my index page to a
    > new photo, the photo I talk about fixing in this post and in my
    > previous post to this group. In its current form this photo is quite
    > desaturated I will eventually get around to getting more color into
    > it.
    Frank ess, Nov 18, 2004
    #3
  4. David Virgil Hobbs

    Mark² Guest

    "Frank ess" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Nice analysis. thank you.
    >
    >
    >
    > My examples from 11-11-2004:
    >
    >
    >
    > All red-like from the tungsten over the stage:
    >
    > http://www.fototime.com/FEE937EF5D94A5E/orig.jpg
    >
    > De-saturated to near-normal on the tungsten-lit majority, but look at
    > the man facing us, who was apparently shielded from all but the flash...
    > http://www.fototime.com/309DEB6073ECA40/orig.jpg
    >
    > --
    > Frank ess


    Frank,

    Have you clicked on this guy's site?
    He's a troll...nothing more.
    The whole thing's a big joke.
    Mark², Nov 18, 2004
    #4
  5. I read on this newsgroup that you just need to switch to a different CF
    card, and that'll solve all your problems. _All_ of them.
    --
    Phil Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    The Civilized Explorer | spam and read later. email to philip@
    http://www.cieux.com/ | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Stripling, Nov 18, 2004
    #5
  6. David Virgil Hobbs

    Frank ess Guest

    Mark² wrote:
    > "Frank ess" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Nice analysis. thank you.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> My examples from 11-11-2004:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> All red-like from the tungsten over the stage:
    >>
    >> http://www.fototime.com/FEE937EF5D94A5E/orig.jpg
    >>
    >> De-saturated to near-normal on the tungsten-lit majority, but look at
    >> the man facing us, who was apparently shielded from all but the
    >> flash... http://www.fototime.com/309DEB6073ECA40/orig.jpg
    >>
    >> --
    >> Frank ess

    >
    > Frank,
    >
    > Have you clicked on this guy's site?
    > He's a troll...nothing more.
    > The whole thing's a big joke.


    Well, no, I didn't look. I guess I need a tune-up.

    Shewt. Foiled again.

    --
    Frank ess
    Frank ess, Nov 18, 2004
    #6
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