Why No Bulb or Cable Release Socket?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by jim evans, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. jim evans

    jim evans Guest

    Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    for using a cable release?

    I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    features.

    Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    them?
     
    jim evans, Jan 18, 2009
    #1
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  2. jim evans

    Cynicor Guest

    jim evans wrote:
    > Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    > for using a cable release?
    >
    > I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    > ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    > pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    > useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    > features.
    >
    > Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    > them?


    Five point-and-shoots, right? Because every DSLR I've had provides bulb
    ability.
     
    Cynicor, Jan 18, 2009
    #2
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  3. jim evans

    Charles Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:23:47 -0600, jim evans
    <> wrote:

    >Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    >for using a cable release?
    >
    >I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    >ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    >pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    >useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    >features.
    >
    >Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    >them?



    It may. It's called a remote

    There is a picture at
    http://www.steves-digicams.com/2007_reviews/panasonic_fz50_pg2.html

    I don't have the user guide, so I can't be sure of all the functions.
     
    Charles, Jan 18, 2009
    #3
  4. jim evans

    Bruce Guest

    Your Panasonic Lumix FZ50 has a cable release socket, it's called remote
    release

    Bruce
     
    Bruce, Jan 18, 2009
    #4
  5. jim evans

    Bruce Guest

    Look at Page 122 of your manual.

    Bruce
    "jim evans" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    > for using a cable release?
    >
    > I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    > ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    > pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    > useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    > features.
    >
    > Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    > them?
     
    Bruce, Jan 18, 2009
    #5
  6. jim evans

    Dave Cohen Guest

    jim evans wrote:
    > Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    > for using a cable release?
    >
    > I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    > ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    > pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    > useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    > features.
    >
    > Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    > them?


    1. Cable or Bulb release has nothing to do with dslr. The term bulb is
    because that's what they once were, you squeezed the bulb, compressed
    the air inside and that opened the shutter on your nicely finished plate
    camera.
    2. Virtually all the film cameras I can remember had cable release
    functionality.
    3. As to why this is absent on today's cameras, I've no idea.
    Dave Cohen
     
    Dave Cohen, Jan 18, 2009
    #6
  7. jim evans

    Jim Guest

    "jim evans" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    > for using a cable release?
    >
    > I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    > ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    > pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    > useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    > features.
    >
    > Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    > them?


    This question caused me to check all of the cameras that I now own...

    Nikon S2 (1955) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    Nikon F2 (1974) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    Nikon F3 (1988) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    Nikon MD4 (motor drive for F3) - electrical cable
    Nikon N90S (1996) - bulb - electrical cable
    Nikon Coopix 800 - neither bulb nor time
    Nikon D70 (2004) - bulb - remote control
    Nikon D90 (2009) - bulb - electrical cable or remote control

    And some that I no longer own:

    Practika FX (1953) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    Canon FT-QL (1968) - bulb and time - mechanical cable

    The dates are the year that I bought the camera.

    So, mechanical cables left the scened somtime before 1996 which was way
    before digital cameras were affordable (unless you call a modified F3 or F-1
    with 1 MP and cost $20000 or more affordable).

    By the way, the fine manual for the D90 says that you can leave the camera
    at bulb for up to 35 minutes.

    Jim
     
    Jim, Jan 18, 2009
    #7
  8. jim evans

    jim evans Guest

    On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:26:25 -0000, "Bruce"
    <> wrote:

    >Look at Page 122 of your manual.


    Yes, I understood you could buy a special accessory. Cable releases
    are universal. I own 3 of different lengths and they worked on all my
    film cameras.

    However, I don't think even this camera-unique accessory will let you
    do a bulb or time exposure.
     
    jim evans, Jan 18, 2009
    #8
  9. jim evans

    jim evans Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:04:33 -0500, Cynicor <>
    wrote:

    >jim evans wrote:
    >> Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    >> for using a cable release?
    >>
    >> I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    >> ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    >> pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    >> useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    >> features.
    >>
    >> Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    >> them?

    >
    >Five point-and-shoots, right? Because every DSLR I've had provides bulb
    >ability.


    So you figure camera manufacturers leave these features off in order
    to cater to elitist snobbery?
     
    jim evans, Jan 18, 2009
    #9
  10. jim evans

    Mark Thomas Guest

    jim evans wrote:
    > Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    > for using a cable release?
    >
    > I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    > ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    > pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    > useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    > features.
    >
    > Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    > them?

    As for the cable release, if the camera is relatively small and fully
    electronic, it makes little sense to have what is a significantly sized
    mechanism just to satisfy a fairly rare need. Most 'decent' cameras
    have a 2 or ten second time delay that can be used, many have wireless
    remotes, some even have wired remotes. Just for the record, the Fuji
    S9XXX series had a real cable release socket (I know, I have one), but I
    think they are pretty unique in that regard.

    Regarding Bulb, many/most(?) sensors overheat and/or suffer from noise
    problems with extremely long exposures, so if they do offer 'bulb' it is
    often limited. The last couple of bridge cameras I had were limited to
    8 and 15 minutes iirc.

    While it made sense and was relatively easy to implement on film
    cameras, digitals are a little trickier. But there is always image
    stacking..
     
    Mark Thomas, Jan 18, 2009
    #10
  11. jim evans

    Matt Ion Guest

    Jim wrote:
    > "jim evans" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    >> for using a cable release?
    >>
    >> I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    >> ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    >> pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    >> useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    >> features.
    >>
    >> Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    >> them?

    >
    > This question caused me to check all of the cameras that I now own...
    >
    > Nikon S2 (1955) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    > Nikon F2 (1974) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    > Nikon F3 (1988) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    > Nikon MD4 (motor drive for F3) - electrical cable
    > Nikon N90S (1996) - bulb - electrical cable
    > Nikon Coopix 800 - neither bulb nor time
    > Nikon D70 (2004) - bulb - remote control
    > Nikon D90 (2009) - bulb - electrical cable or remote control
    >
    > And some that I no longer own:
    >
    > Practika FX (1953) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    > Canon FT-QL (1968) - bulb and time - mechanical cable
    >
    > The dates are the year that I bought the camera.
    >
    > So, mechanical cables left the scened somtime before 1996 which was way
    > before digital cameras were affordable (unless you call a modified F3 or F-1
    > with 1 MP and cost $20000 or more affordable).


    My 1958-vintage Argus C-3 has provisions for a cable release, as did my
    ill-fated Minolta X-700. My Canon Rebel G and Digital Rebel 300D both
    use an electric remote (well, it's really just a pair of switches), and
    my 40D uses a similar remote with a different connector.

    The move to electrical vs. cable release, I suspect, can be traced back
    to the advent of autofocus, rather than the introduction of digital...
    these types of remotes typically have two switch positions, just like
    the cameras: half-press to initiate AF, full-press to fire.

    A couple other SLRs and SLR-type film cameras I've had over the years
    had cable-release connections as well.

    No film or digital P&S I've ever owned had a Bulb or cable function,
    that I can recall.

    > By the way, the fine manual for the D90 says that you can leave the camera
    > at bulb for up to 35 minutes.


    I left my Digital Rebel on bulb overnight once... I think it got to a
    little under 3.5 hours before the battery gave out. Would have been
    some amazing star trails if it weren't for the break of dawn... *sigh*
     
    Matt Ion, Jan 18, 2009
    #11
  12. jim evans

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, TrentTarkins
    <> wrote:

    > >> Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    > >> them?

    > >
    > >1. Cable or Bulb release has nothing to do with dslr. The term bulb is
    > >because that's what they once were, you squeezed the bulb, compressed
    > >the air inside and that opened the shutter on your nicely finished plate
    > >camera.

    >
    > Wholly incorrect.


    no, he is exactly correct. the term does refer to a bulb that was
    squeezed to hold the shutter open while time exposure was one click to
    open and another click to close. many old cameras have both b and t on
    the shutter dial.

    > "Bulb" refers to the "flashbulb" shutter speed.


    wrong.

    the rest of what you wrote is also wrong.
     
    nospam, Jan 18, 2009
    #12
  13. jim evans

    Ray Fischer Guest

    TrentTarkins <> wrote:
    > nospam <> wrote:
    >> TrentTarkins


    >>> >> Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    >>> >> them?
    >>> >
    >>> >1. Cable or Bulb release has nothing to do with dslr. The term bulb is
    >>> >because that's what they once were, you squeezed the bulb, compressed
    >>> >the air inside and that opened the shutter on your nicely finished plate
    >>> >camera.
    >>>
    >>> Wholly incorrect.

    >>
    >>no, he is exactly correct. the term does refer to a bulb that was
    >>squeezed to hold the shutter open while time exposure was one click to
    >>open and another click to close. many old cameras have both b and t on
    >>the shutter dial.

    >
    >You're a total troll and a moron.


    He happens to be correct.

    > Squeezable "bulb" air-pressure type
    >cable-releases weren't used until very late in the game.


    History

    The term "bulb" is a reference to old-style pneumatically actuated
    shutters; squeezing an air bulb would open the shutter and
    releasing the bulb would close it. According to the Focal
    Encyclopedia of Photography[1]:
    "BULB EXPOSURE (B). Another term for a brief exposure-in which
    the shutter remains open only so long as the shutter release is
    held down. The word originated with the early pneumatic shutter
    release."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_release

    > They were only invented
    >later as a more gentle way of avoiding all camera-shake,


    You're sfull of shit. Cable/bulb shutter releases were in use with
    the very first cameras.

    >>> "Bulb" refers to the "flashbulb" shutter speed.

    >>
    >>wrong.
    >>
    >>the rest of what you wrote is also wrong.

    >
    >You're a freakin' internet-life-only moron without one clue about real


    The "flashbulb" shutter speed is the x-sync speed, moron.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Jan 18, 2009
    #13
  14. jim evans

    Pete D Guest

    "Mark Thomas" <markt@_don't_spam_marktphoto.com> wrote in message
    news:gku8sd$v83$...
    > jim evans wrote:
    >> Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    >> for using a cable release?
    >>
    >> I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    >> ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    >> pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    >> useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    >> features. Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not
    >> have
    >> them?

    > As for the cable release, if the camera is relatively small and fully
    > electronic, it makes little sense to have what is a significantly sized
    > mechanism just to satisfy a fairly rare need. Most 'decent' cameras have
    > a 2 or ten second time delay that can be used, many have wireless remotes,
    > some even have wired remotes. Just for the record, the Fuji S9XXX series
    > had a real cable release socket (I know, I have one), but I think they are
    > pretty unique in that regard.
    >
    > Regarding Bulb, many/most(?) sensors overheat and/or suffer from noise
    > problems with extremely long exposures, so if they do offer 'bulb' it is
    > often limited. The last couple of bridge cameras I had were limited to 8
    > and 15 minutes iirc.
    >
    > While it made sense and was relatively easy to implement on film cameras,
    > digitals are a little trickier. But there is always image stacking..


    I think also what the OP is not realising is that the FZ50 may look a like
    an SLR camera but in fact is just a big point and shoot with a few extra
    features, I guess cable/remote release is not one of them.
     
    Pete D, Jan 18, 2009
    #14
  15. jim evans

    Ray Fischer Guest

    TrentTarkins <> wrote:
    >On 18 Jan 2009 06:48:50 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
    >
    >>TrentTarkins <> wrote:
    >>> nospam <> wrote:
    >>>> TrentTarkins

    >>
    >>>>> >> Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital cameras not have
    >>>>> >> them?
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> >1. Cable or Bulb release has nothing to do with dslr. The term bulb is
    >>>>> >because that's what they once were, you squeezed the bulb, compressed
    >>>>> >the air inside and that opened the shutter on your nicely finished plate
    >>>>> >camera.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Wholly incorrect.
    >>>>
    >>>>no, he is exactly correct. the term does refer to a bulb that was
    >>>>squeezed to hold the shutter open while time exposure was one click to
    >>>>open and another click to close. many old cameras have both b and t on
    >>>>the shutter dial.
    >>>
    >>>You're a total troll and a moron.

    >>
    >>He happens to be correct.
    >>
    >>> Squeezable "bulb" air-pressure type
    >>>cable-releases weren't used until very late in the game.

    >>
    >> History
    >>
    >> The term "bulb" is a reference to old-style pneumatically actuated
    >> shutters; squeezing an air bulb would open the shutter and
    >> releasing the bulb would close it. According to the Focal
    >> Encyclopedia of Photography[1]:
    >> "BULB EXPOSURE (B). Another term for a brief exposure-in which
    >> the shutter remains open only so long as the shutter release is
    >> held down. The word originated with the early pneumatic shutter
    >> release."
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_release
    >>

    >
    >And the Wiki's are NEVER wrong! :)


    There's a picture of a bulb release from the 1890s, moron.

    >>> They were only invented
    >>>later as a more gentle way of avoiding all camera-shake,

    >>
    >>You're sfull of shit. Cable/bulb shutter releases were in use with
    >>the very first cameras.


    As the phto on the Wikipedia page shows quite clearly.

    >>>>> "Bulb" refers to the "flashbulb" shutter speed.
    >>>>
    >>>>wrong.
    >>>>
    >>>>the rest of what you wrote is also wrong.
    >>>
    >>>You're a freakin' internet-life-only moron without one clue about real

    >>
    >>The "flashbulb" shutter speed is the x-sync speed, moron.

    >
    >Wow, are you ever an idiot.


    Go away, asshole.

    >X-Sync fires the flash at the moment when both shutter curtains are FULLY open.


    AKA, the '"flashbulb" shutter speed'.

    >FOR ELECTRONIC FLASH SYNC, NOT FLASHBULB FLASH.


    LOL! Do you think that the shutter behaves differently depending on
    whether it's a electronic flash or a flashbulb? And what has that to
    do with the bulb setting on the camera? You think that fashbulbs are
    SO SLOW that people need to keep the shutter open for a few minutes?

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Jan 18, 2009
    #15
  16. jim evans

    Matt Ion Guest

    Ray Fischer wrote:

    While I agree with your assessment of the meaning of "B" - "bulb
    release" in reference to the pneumatic trigger is how I learned it LONG
    before teh intranets came along - I feel I should correct you on one point:

    >> X-Sync fires the flash at the moment when both shutter curtains are FULLY open.

    >
    > AKA, the '"flashbulb" shutter speed'.
    >
    >> FOR ELECTRONIC FLASH SYNC, NOT FLASHBULB FLASH.

    >
    > LOL! Do you think that the shutter behaves differently depending on
    > whether it's a electronic flash or a flashbulb?


    It does, actually. Because old-style flashbulbs took a fraction of a
    second to reach full brightness, shutter sync was delayed slightly from
    flash activation... or more accurately, flash sync was set to precede
    shutter opening by a few hundredths of a second.

    I learned about this the hard way after I rigged an X-sync adapter to my
    old Argus C-3 and wasted a whole role of film trying out my new flash,
    ending up with some 26 almost-entirely-black shots. I opened up the
    front of the camera to find a tab attached to the shutter mechanism,
    that would contact and energize the flash terminals a good 10 degrees
    before the shutter started opening... I managed to adjust the tab myself
    to provide proper X-sync timing - contact at the instant of the shutter
    opening fully.

    A trip to the library and a little reading (and again, this was early
    80s, well preceding Wikipedia) told me this was done because of the lag
    time for flashbulbs. The example given showed a camera with selectable
    sync - T for flashbulbs, and X for electronic flashes.

    Said photography books were also unanimous in their explanation of the
    "bulb" setting. So yes, you, Dave and 'nospam' are correct in the
    meaning of "B"... but you're off slightly on bulb-vs-strobe flash (not
    WRONG, per se, just off a little :))

    Hope that helps :)
     
    Matt Ion, Jan 18, 2009
    #16
  17. jim evans

    Prometheus Guest

    In article <>, jim evans
    <> writes
    >On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:26:25 -0000, "Bruce"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Look at Page 122 of your manual.

    >
    >Yes, I understood you could buy a special accessory. Cable releases
    >are universal. I own 3 of different lengths and they worked on all my
    >film cameras.


    Now there you do have a potential problem, the connector might be
    peculiar to the manufacturer making it incompatible with other models
    (if you are unlucky even from the same manufacturer). The advantage of
    being electrical is that it is much simpler to extend, and you can
    easily connect trigger sensors, i.e. sound or beam-break, to capture
    wild life. On the subject of compatibility, I had to purchase adapters
    to use a cable release with both my TLR and sub-miniature cameras.

    >However, I don't think even this camera-unique accessory will let you
    >do a bulb or time exposure.


    I do not know about your system, but mine (Canon RS60-E3) will; it has a
    press button that can be slid to lock it, all I have to do is set the
    shutter to "bulb" and plug it in. I had no trouble making an extension
    cable using parts readily available from a local electrical components
    shop. Some cameras, like my DSLR, also work with an IR remote control.
    --
    Ian G8ILZ
    There are always two people in every picture: the photographer and the viewer.
    ~Ansel Adams
     
    Prometheus, Jan 18, 2009
    #17
  18. jim evans

    Prometheus Guest

    In article <gku4vt$vsq$>, Dave Cohen
    <> writes
    >jim evans wrote:
    >> Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    >> for using a cable release?
    >> I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a
    >>focusing
    >> ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    >> pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    >> useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    >> features. Simple film cameras had them. Why do most digital
    >>cameras not have
    >> them?

    >
    >1. Cable or Bulb release has nothing to do with dslr. The term bulb is
    >because that's what they once were, you squeezed the bulb, compressed
    >the air inside and that opened the shutter on your nicely finished
    >plate camera.
    >2. Virtually all the film cameras I can remember had cable release
    >functionality.
    >3. As to why this is absent on today's cameras, I've no idea.
    >Dave Cohen


    I am not sure that many compact cameras (before the term P&S was used as
    a pejorative) had a remote socket of any form. Do you remember frame
    that could be clamped around a camera to permit attaching a mechanical
    cable realise? As such I am not sure it is any more, or less, absent on
    today's cameras than in the past.
    --
    Ian G8ILZ
    There are always two people in every picture: the photographer and the viewer.
    ~Ansel Adams
     
    Prometheus, Jan 18, 2009
    #18
  19. jim evans <> wrote:
    > Why do most digital cameras have no Bulb ability? Why no provision
    > for using a cable release?


    > I have a DSLR-like digital camera (Panasonic FZ50). It has a focusing
    > ring and a zoom ring on the lens. In essentially all ways except the
    > pentaprism it has the functions of a DSLR, but it's absent these
    > useful features. I've owned 5 digital cameras, none had these
    > features.


    > Simple film cameras had them.


    Not all of them.

    > Why do most digital cameras not have
    > them?


    Not all of them lack the modern equivalent, which works better.

    --
    Chris Malcolm
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 18, 2009
    #19
  20. Jim <> wrote:

    > By the way, the fine manual for the D90 says that you can leave the camera
    > at bulb for up to 35 minutes.


    Exactly!

    Try keeping a pneumatic bulb squeezed for 35 mins. And once you've
    developed the muscular strength to do that, try and find someone who
    makes camera pneumatic releases which can hold air pressure for 36
    mins :)

    There are still plenty of old cameras around in attics and junk shops
    which have these features. And there are still some old guys shooting
    with them.

    I guess it's like the old philosophical debates about how many legs a
    spider had. It's so much more fun to argue all day about it than to
    find a spider and look :)

    --
    Chris Malcolm
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 18, 2009
    #20
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