Why new cameras does not have optical viewfinders?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by zalek, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. zalek

    zalek Guest

    I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    very difficult.

    Zalek
     
    zalek, Jan 30, 2008
    #1
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  2. zalek

    Mr. Strat Guest

    In article
    <>,
    zalek <> wrote:

    > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    > very difficult.


    People are stupid and want to hold their cameras at arm's length while
    looking at a little TV on the back. Yup, it's a sad day.

    And a lot of them I see are thin, little credit card things. I have no
    idea how a person could get a steady picture with something like that.
     
    Mr. Strat, Jan 30, 2008
    #2
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  3. zalek <> wrote:
    >I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    >cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    >very difficult.


    Often discussed in very heated arguments. The two fractions are firmly
    entrenched.

    I am with you, a camera without an optical viewfinder is useless _TO_ME_.
    Other people obviously couldn't care less and wouldn't use an optical
    viewfinder even if you put a gun to their heads.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Jan 30, 2008
    #3
  4. zalek

    ray Guest

    On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:16:19 -0800, zalek wrote:

    > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    > very difficult.
    >
    > Zalek


    The demarcation is not optical viewfinder vs back of camera LCD - it is
    optical viewfinder vs electronic viewfinder. I happen to use a long zoom
    EVF camera (Kodak P850) and find it quite usable in all conditions - I've
    recently done a rather extensive shoot on a bright sunny day with full
    snow cover.
     
    ray, Jan 30, 2008
    #4
  5. zalek

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <97f51c13-c47a-484e-b340-
    >, zalek says...
    > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    > very difficult.


    Even if a compact had an optical viewfinder, it would be a tiny little
    hole.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Jan 30, 2008
    #5
  6. zalek wrote:
    > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    > very difficult.
    >
    > Zalek


    All DSLRs include an optical finder. <G>
    No movie mode - yet.
    A good value example is the Nikon D40:

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD40/

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 30, 2008
    #6
  7. zalek

    Ron Hunter Guest

    zalek wrote:
    > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    > very difficult.
    >
    > Zalek


    Market pressures, plain and simple.
    People like large LCD displays, even those of us who prefer to use an
    optical viewfinder.
    Most people who use digital cameras for snapshots DON'T use the optical
    viewfinder. It takes up space on a small camera, and costs money to
    include, so eliminating it in favor of a large LCD seems to be a
    reasonable marketing strategy. It appears that a P&S camera under $250
    with an optical viewfinder is pretty much a thing of the past.
     
    Ron Hunter, Jan 30, 2008
    #7
  8. zalek

    bucky3 Guest

    On Jan 30, 1:02 am, Ron Hunter <> wrote:
    > Market pressures, plain and simple.
    > Most people who use digital cameras for snapshots DON'T use the optical
    > viewfinder. It takes up space on a small camera, and costs money to
    > include


    Exactly. The other replies didn't really answer the question, just
    gave their own biases/preferences.
     
    bucky3, Jan 30, 2008
    #8
  9. Mr. Strat <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    > zalek <> wrote:


    >> I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    >> cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    >> very difficult.


    > People are stupid and want to hold their cameras at arm's length while
    > looking at a little TV on the back. Yup, it's a sad day.


    That's not stupidity, it's having eyes too old to see anything closer
    than arm's length. If you want to see all the detail in an LCD display
    you have to view it from a few inches away.

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 30, 2008
    #9
  10. Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    > In article <97f51c13-c47a-484e-b340-
    > >, zalek says...
    >> I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    >> cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    >> very difficult.

    >
    > Even if a compact had an optical viewfinder, it would be a tiny little
    > hole.


    Providing you define a compact camera as one which is too small or
    cheap to have anything big enough or good enough to be useful in it.

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 30, 2008
    #10
  11. On Jan 30, 12:13 am, ray <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:16:19 -0800, zalek wrote:
    > > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    > > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    > > very difficult.

    >
    > > Zalek

    >
    > The demarcation is not optical viewfinder vs back of camera LCD - it is
    > optical viewfinder vs electronic viewfinder. I happen to use a long zoom
    > EVF camera (Kodak P850) and find it quite usable in all conditions - I've
    > recently done a rather extensive shoot on a bright sunny day with full
    > snow cover.


    EVF may be okay for most applications, but I do a lot of tabletop
    photography, which requires careful manual focusing. I have yet to see
    an EVF with enough resolution for that.
     
    Don Stauffer in Minnesota, Jan 30, 2008
    #11
  12. zalek

    irwell Guest

    On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 03:02:51 -0600, Ron Hunter <>
    wrote:

    >zalek wrote:
    >> I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    >> cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    >> very difficult.
    >>
    >> Zalek

    >
    >Market pressures, plain and simple.
    >People like large LCD displays, even those of us who prefer to use an
    >optical viewfinder.
    >Most people who use digital cameras for snapshots DON'T use the optical
    >viewfinder. It takes up space on a small camera, and costs money to
    >include, so eliminating it in favor of a large LCD seems to be a
    >reasonable marketing strategy. It appears that a P&S camera under $250
    >with an optical viewfinder is pretty much a thing of the past.


    You can still pick up a Canon SD1000 for about $170,
    Has an optical viewfinder and a host of other good modes,
    very compact but good to handle being a box like shape
    without any curves. Carry mine all the time. No IS unfortunately.
     
    irwell, Jan 30, 2008
    #12
  13. zalek

    ray Guest

    On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 07:04:22 -0800, Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:

    > On Jan 30, 12:13 am, ray <> wrote:
    >> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:16:19 -0800, zalek wrote:
    >> > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    >> > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    >> > very difficult.

    >>
    >> > Zalek

    >>
    >> The demarcation is not optical viewfinder vs back of camera LCD - it is
    >> optical viewfinder vs electronic viewfinder. I happen to use a long
    >> zoom EVF camera (Kodak P850) and find it quite usable in all conditions
    >> - I've recently done a rather extensive shoot on a bright sunny day
    >> with full snow cover.

    >
    > EVF may be okay for most applications, but I do a lot of tabletop
    > photography, which requires careful manual focusing. I have yet to see
    > an EVF with enough resolution for that.


    That is a major failing with most EVF's - for example the canon s31s and
    it's ilk. They have around 110k pixels, as I recall. There are others
    with at least twice the resolution - the difference is quite profound. At
    one point, Minolta marketed one EVF with an advertised 1mp EVF.
    Personally, I use a Kodak P850 with 220k EVF and I have no difficulty,
    though I have not tried tabletop manual focus.
     
    ray, Jan 30, 2008
    #13
  14. zalek

    SMS Guest

    zalek wrote:
    > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    > very difficult.


    It adds cost to have an optical viewfinder, and it reduces the available
    area for the LCD. Manufacturers compete on LCD size and megapixels. Most
    consumers don't understand the benefit of an optical viewfinder.

    The camera you should buy is the Canon SD800IS. It has an optical
    viewfinder, image stabilization, and a wide-angle lens. It is the _only_
    sub-compact camera on the market with these three attributes.

    Ironically, the price has been going up on this camera. It was as low as
    $230 at Amazon, now it's $285 at Amazon, $255 at Buydig.
     
    SMS, Jan 30, 2008
    #14
  15. zalek

    Mr. Strat Guest

    In article <1OWnj.85257$>, David J
    Taylor <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk>
    wrote:

    > All DSLRs include an optical finder. <G>
    > No movie mode - yet.


    You wanna take movies...buy a movie camera...
     
    Mr. Strat, Jan 30, 2008
    #15
  16. zalek

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>, Chris Malcolm says...

    > Providing you define a compact camera as one which is too small or
    > cheap to have anything big enough or good enough to be useful in it.


    Today's compacts are more or less credit card sized. There is not much
    space left for a viewfinder.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Jan 30, 2008
    #16
  17. Don Stauffer in Minnesota <> wrote:
    > On Jan 30, 12:13 am, ray <> wrote:
    >> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:16:19 -0800, zalek wrote:


    >> > I am looking a new camera to replace my Canon SD550 - most compact
    >> > cameras does not have optical viewfinders. To use LCD on a beach - is
    >> > very difficult.


    >> The demarcation is not optical viewfinder vs back of camera LCD - it is
    >> optical viewfinder vs electronic viewfinder. I happen to use a long zoom
    >> EVF camera (Kodak P850) and find it quite usable in all conditions - I've
    >> recently done a rather extensive shoot on a bright sunny day with full
    >> snow cover.


    > EVF may be okay for most applications, but I do a lot of tabletop
    > photography, which requires careful manual focusing. I have yet to see
    > an EVF with enough resolution for that.


    I find the 230K EVF plus the magnified manual focussing view of the
    Sony R1 more than adequate for manual focussing for tabletop
    photography. The images are well lit, with plenty of easily visible
    sharp detail, and at close range focussing is quite critical, so I
    find it very easy, easy enough that I'll often just use the LCD rather
    than the higher resolution EVF. What is difficult is manual focussing
    at a distance in dim light where the general obscurity reduces visible
    sharpness. I recall having difficulty doing that kind of focussing
    with old pre-autofocus film SLRs too.

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 30, 2008
    #17
  18. ray wrote:
    []
    > That is a major failing with most EVF's - for example the canon s31s
    > and it's ilk. They have around 110k pixels, as I recall. There are
    > others with at least twice the resolution - the difference is quite
    > profound. At one point, Minolta marketed one EVF with an advertised
    > 1mp EVF. Personally, I use a Kodak P850 with 220k EVF and I have no
    > difficulty, though I have not tried tabletop manual focus.


    More like 110K dots - 37K RGB pixels.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 30, 2008
    #18
  19. Mr. Strat wrote:
    > In article <1OWnj.85257$>, David J
    > Taylor <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> All DSLRs include an optical finder. <G>
    >> No movie mode - yet.

    >
    > You wanna take movies...buy a movie camera...


    Why take two cameras if one would suffice?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 30, 2008
    #19
  20. zalek

    Mr. Strat Guest

    In article <DI3oj.85587$>, David J
    Taylor <-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk>
    wrote:

    > Why take two cameras if one would suffice?


    For the same reason I avoid printer/fax/scanner devices. Too much crap
    stuck together that none of them does well.
     
    Mr. Strat, Jan 30, 2008
    #20
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