Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by SoloSalsa@gmail.com, Jun 24, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Alright alright. Everyone has heard about nex gen, and surely the PS3.
    Many of you should know this: The expected price will be 599
    USdollars. Expensive, yes, no doubt, of course. Far fewer of you know
    that Sony also is making a blu-ray player, just a home theater movie
    player, for release in October (they've had it in Japan for years).
    The BD movie player will cost 999 USD.
    So can someone shoot some sense at me? The PS3 also is a DVD and BD
    movie player, and a 7-cored video game system. Why the heck does it
    cost less than a BD movie-only player?
     
    , Jun 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. Gilgamesh Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Alright alright. Everyone has heard about nex gen, and surely the PS3.
    > Many of you should know this: The expected price will be 599
    > USdollars. Expensive, yes, no doubt, of course. Far fewer of you know
    > that Sony also is making a blu-ray player, just a home theater movie
    > player, for release in October (they've had it in Japan for years).
    > The BD movie player will cost 999 USD.
    > So can someone shoot some sense at me? The PS3 also is a DVD and BD
    > movie player, and a 7-cored video game system. Why the heck does it
    > cost less than a BD movie-only player?


    They plan to make the profit from the games.
    They are also changing the games licencing so you only have a
    non-transferable right to use it which means that any second hand games
    complete with original disks, manuals, boxes, etc will be illegal.
    This will force (LOL) people to buy new games rather than second hand.

    >
     
    Gilgamesh, Jun 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. TB Guest

    "Gilgamesh" wrote:
    >
    > They plan to make the profit from the games.
    > They are also changing the games licencing so you only have a
    > non-transferable right to use it which means that any second hand games
    > complete with original disks, manuals, boxes, etc will be illegal.
    > This will force (LOL) people to buy new games rather than second hand.


    Not that I'm a big gamer or anything and keep up on that technology, but do
    you have a link to a legitimate story about this? This is the first I've
    heard this and I'm curious how this will affect all those mom n' pop video
    game stores that resell used games.

    T.B.
     
    TB, Jun 24, 2006
    #3
  4. Joshua Zyber Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Alright alright. Everyone has heard about nex gen, and surely the
    > PS3.
    > Many of you should know this: The expected price will be 599
    > USdollars. Expensive, yes, no doubt, of course. Far fewer of you
    > know
    > that Sony also is making a blu-ray player, just a home theater movie
    > player, for release in October (they've had it in Japan for years).


    The Blu-ray recorders available in Japan are a different format with the
    same name. They use recordable discs held in a cartridge-style caddy and
    are not compatible with the new Blu-ray playback format. Sony simply
    recycled the name.

    > The BD movie player will cost 999 USD.
    > So can someone shoot some sense at me? The PS3 also is a DVD and BD
    > movie player, and a 7-cored video game system. Why the heck does it
    > cost less than a BD movie-only player?


    1) All video game consoles are sold at a loss. The company makes its
    money back on software licensing.
    2) All video game consoles are lousy movie playback devices. Ever tried
    watching a DVD on a PS2? Expect horrible quality video from the PS3
    (even worse than the standalone Blu-ray players).
     
    Joshua Zyber, Jun 25, 2006
    #4
  5. Jay G. Guest

    On 24 Jun 2006 14:04:58 -0700, wrote:

    > Alright alright. Everyone has heard about nex gen, and surely the PS3.
    > Many of you should know this: The expected price will be 599
    > USdollars.


    That's for the more expensive one. The basic PS3 system will cost $499.

    > Expensive, yes, no doubt, of course. Far fewer of you know
    > that Sony also is making a blu-ray player, just a home theater movie
    > player, for release in October (they've had it in Japan for years).


    Nope, there hasn't been a Blu-Ray player available in Japan. As Joshua
    wrote, that was a different format with the same nime.

    > The BD movie player will cost 999 USD.
    > So can someone shoot some sense at me? The PS3 also is a DVD and BD
    > movie player, and a 7-cored video game system. Why the heck does it
    > cost less than a BD movie-only player?


    Several reasons:

    - The PS3 has to be competitively priced compared to the Xbox360, which is
    priced at $299 and 399.

    - The PS3 is getting a much larger release. Sony is planning on producing
    around 2 million PS3s for the launch, and another 2 million by the end of
    the year. With that large of a production, the cost of the individual
    units is driven down considerably.

    - Video game systems have often been subsidized, that is sold below cost,
    with the understanding (hope) that software and accessory sales will make
    up the difference.

    - Sony *wants* everyone to buy a PS3 over any other Blu-Ray player. For
    every PS3 sold, they get to claim a sale of their video game system *and* a
    Blu-Ray player. This will inflate the numbers of Blu-Ray and PS3 units
    Sony can claim to have sold, despite the fact that a number of purchases
    will be by people only looking to use it for movies and not video games,
    and vice versa.

    -Jay
     
    Jay G., Jun 25, 2006
    #5
  6. Jay G. Guest

    On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:06:42 -0400, Joshua Zyber wrote:
    >
    >> The BD movie player will cost 999 USD.
    >> So can someone shoot some sense at me? The PS3 also is a DVD and BD
    >> movie player, and a 7-cored video game system. Why the heck does it
    >> cost less than a BD movie-only player?

    >
    > 1) All video game consoles are sold at a loss. The company makes its
    > money back on software licensing.


    Not true. Nintendo has claimed to never have sold a concole at a loss.

    > 2) All video game consoles are lousy movie playback devices.


    http://gear.ign.com/articles/316/316429p1.html
    "As for image quality, the Xbox actually surprised me. The picture
    might not be as good as many high-end DVD players, and, of course,
    there's no progressive scan, but it is better than average."

    http://www.gamesfirst.com/articles/jeremyk/ps2dvd/ps2dvd.htm
    "If you were looking at your typical department store brand DVD
    players (say, in the $179.99-$249.99 range), the PS2 is just as
    good if not better"

    They were considered fairly decent DVD players in their day, although later
    or more expensive standalone players have surpassed them.

    > Expect horrible quality video from the PS3
    > (even worse than the standalone Blu-ray players).


    Why would you expect that? The PS3 should be able to handle the discs
    themselves fine, considering it's the same format that the games are going
    to come on. Which leaves the video and audio processing, which considering
    that Toshiba is using an off-the-shelf Pentium 4 processor for their HD DVD
    players, really shouldn't be a problem for the Cell processor.

    -Jay
     
    Jay G., Jun 25, 2006
    #6
  7. Rich Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    wrote:
    > Alright alright. Everyone has heard about nex gen, and surely the PS3.
    > Many of you should know this: The expected price will be 599
    > USdollars. Expensive, yes, no doubt, of course. Far fewer of you know
    > that Sony also is making a blu-ray player, just a home theater movie
    > player, for release in October (they've had it in Japan for years).
    > The BD movie player will cost 999 USD.
    > So can someone shoot some sense at me? The PS3 also is a DVD and BD
    > movie player, and a 7-cored video game system. Why the heck does it
    > cost less than a BD movie-only player?


    Because those game consoles are dumping groups for outdated processors
    from
    companies like Intel?
     
    Rich, Jun 25, 2006
    #7
  8. Jordan Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    wrote:

    > So can someone shoot some sense at me? The PS3 also is a DVD and BD
    > movie player, and a 7-cored video game system. Why the heck does it
    > cost less than a BD movie-only player?


    The PS3 is being sold at a $300+ per unit loss while the stand alone
    player is not. It's the way game machines have always been sold,
    although I think this is the highest per unit loss in console history.

    - Jordan
     
    Jordan, Jun 26, 2006
    #8
  9. Jordan Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    Jay G. wrote:

    > > Expect horrible quality video from the PS3
    > > (even worse than the standalone Blu-ray players).

    >
    > Why would you expect that?


    Sony is selling 2 models of the PS3, a $600 and a $500 unit. The low
    end unit only uses component video. The more expensive unit features
    HDMI for video out. How they'll get 1080p out of a component connection
    is beyond me. Particularly when the Blu-Ray standard calls for
    crippling the analog outputs down to 960x540.

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060122-6027.html

    - Jordan
     
    Jordan, Jun 26, 2006
    #9
  10. Jay G. Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    On 26 Jun 2006 02:17:09 -0700, Jordan wrote:

    > Jay G. wrote:
    >
    >>> Expect horrible quality video from the PS3
    >>> (even worse than the standalone Blu-ray players).

    >>
    >> Why would you expect that?

    >
    > Sony is selling 2 models of the PS3, a $600 and a $500 unit. The low
    > end unit only uses component video. The more expensive unit features
    > HDMI for video out. How they'll get 1080p out of a component connection
    > is beyond me.


    They won't. The component connection is only capable of 1080i, or what the
    Toshiba HD DVD players are only capable of, even with HDMI.

    > Particularly when the Blu-Ray standard calls for
    > crippling the analog outputs down to 960x540.
    >
    > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060122-6027.html


    HD DVD has the same "crippling" capability. However, as the article notes,
    the implimentation of that feature is left up to the studios, and so far n
    studio has engaged the crippling on their discs.

    -Jay
     
    Jay G., Jun 26, 2006
    #10
  11. Jordan Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    Jay G. wrote:
    > >> Why would you expect that?

    > >
    > > Sony is selling 2 models of the PS3, a $600 and a $500 unit. The low
    > > end unit only uses component video. The more expensive unit features
    > > HDMI for video out. How they'll get 1080p out of a component connection
    > > is beyond me.

    >
    > They won't. The component connection is only capable of 1080i, or what the
    > Toshiba HD DVD players are only capable of, even with HDMI.


    Exactly, which is why the PS3 blu-ray will look worse than a stand
    alone blu-ray player.

    > > Particularly when the Blu-Ray standard calls for
    > > crippling the analog outputs down to 960x540.
    > >
    > > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060122-6027.html

    >
    > HD DVD has the same "crippling" capability. However, as the article notes,
    > the implimentation of that feature is left up to the studios, and so far n
    > studio has engaged the crippling on their discs.


    My suspicion is that nobody is going to flip the switch as long as
    there's a debate over which format to use. As soon as one format wins
    over the other that's when you'll see the media content bit being
    turned on.

    - Jordan
     
    Jordan, Jun 26, 2006
    #11
  12. Jay G. Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    On 26 Jun 2006 09:46:00 -0700, Jordan wrote:

    > Jay G. wrote:
    >>>> Why would you expect that?
    >>>
    >>> Sony is selling 2 models of the PS3, a $600 and a $500 unit. The low
    >>> end unit only uses component video. The more expensive unit features
    >>> HDMI for video out. How they'll get 1080p out of a component connection
    >>> is beyond me.

    >>
    >> They won't. The component connection is only capable of 1080i, or what the
    >> Toshiba HD DVD players are only capable of, even with HDMI.

    >
    > Exactly, which is why the PS3 blu-ray will look worse than a stand
    > alone blu-ray player.


    I really wasn't challanging that, I was challenging Joshua's claim that the
    PS3 would have "horrible" video quality.

    In any case, a lot of reviewers are downplaying the importance of 1080p
    output. It seems that as long as the source is in 24p, the resulting image
    doesn't have any interlacing artifacts even if it is output in 1080i.

    >> HD DVD has the same "crippling" capability. However, as the article notes,
    >> the implimentation of that feature is left up to the studios, and so far n
    >> studio has engaged the crippling on their discs.

    >
    > My suspicion is that nobody is going to flip the switch as long as
    > there's a debate over which format to use. As soon as one format wins
    > over the other that's when you'll see the media content bit being
    > turned on.


    Actually, there's not only comeptition between formats, but between
    studios. A studio could turn the crippling on now if they wanted, but it'd
    hurt their sales so early on, since a lot of early adopters bought HDTVs
    without digital inputs. No studio wants to lose their purchases to some
    other studio because they deliberately made their product less appealing.

    -Jay
     
    Jay G., Jun 27, 2006
    #12
  13. Alpha Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    "Jordan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Jay G. wrote:
    >
    >> > Expect horrible quality video from the PS3
    >> > (even worse than the standalone Blu-ray players).

    >>
    >> Why would you expect that?

    >
    > Sony is selling 2 models of the PS3, a $600 and a $500 unit. The low
    > end unit only uses component video. The more expensive unit features
    > HDMI for video out. How they'll get 1080p out of a component connection
    > is beyond me. Particularly when the Blu-Ray standard calls for
    > crippling the analog outputs down to 960x540.
    >
    > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060122-6027.html
    >
    > - Jordan
    >


    I do not understand the limited technical mentality of those suggesting
    1080p is better than 1080i. Every review I have read, including those with
    vested interests as videophiles, states that the difference is not
    perceivable with good equipment.
     
    Alpha, Jun 27, 2006
    #13
  14. Jordan Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    Alpha wrote:

    > I do not understand the limited technical mentality of those suggesting
    > 1080p is better than 1080i. Every review I have read, including those with
    > vested interests as videophiles, states that the difference is not
    > perceivable with good equipment.


    Or worse... that 1080p is having serious issues on the current Blu-Ray
    player:

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa122.html

    - Jordan
     
    Jordan, Jun 28, 2006
    #14
  15. Guest

    Re: Why is the PS3 so cheap? Really!

    Okay, you have all steamed at me, but I'm not getting it.
    Is quality for a movie worth an extra $400? (yes people I KNOW
    already that there are two versions of PS3)
    Even if the quality will be like a DVD, the PS3 can still do so much
    more! They really want to make it a computer!
    And I know that they are at a loss, duh. But still, I just can't
    understand why ($500 this time, y'all) it will cost half as much as a
    movie-only player.
    But now I have another question: Why did they release A LAPTOP with
    a BD rewrite drive? Oh sure, $3500, but why would A LAPTOP come before
    they've even released desktop drives? And why PC's with BD before
    they've even made the movie players?
    Perhaps the movie-machine will have those plugs for the 400 disk
    megachangers built-in, or some other awsome features that will justify
    the price. I still hope the BD format will win.

    And hey, would anyone be kind enough to explain that format in
    Japan, or send me a link for explanation? Now I'm really curious!
     
    , Jun 29, 2006
    #15
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