Why few people interested in Nikon D100?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by VAT, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. VAT

    VAT Guest

    I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to get. I
    think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the appeal
    of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?
     
    VAT, Jan 14, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Nikon D100 is getting old and older.........

    Bob P.




    "VAT" <> wrote in message
    news:7f3Nb.8696$...
    > I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to get.

    I
    > think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the appeal
    > of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?
    >
    >
     
    Bob Pattinson, Jan 14, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. VAT

    Jim Townsend Guest

    VAT wrote:

    > I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to get. I
    > think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the appeal
    > of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?


    Price..

    The 10D was a lot less than the 10D at the outset. Nikon reduced
    the price of the D100 last summer to put it in line with the 10D..
    Perhaps a bit too late.

    As a double whammy, Canon came out with an even less expensive camera that
    hasn't been matched by any other manufacturer. That's why this group has so
    many 10D and Digital Rebel topics...

    The D100 is a fabulous camera. Nikon's only weakness was in marketing and
    innovation. It almost looks like the other manufacturers are handing
    Canon the DSLR market..
     
    Jim Townsend, Jan 14, 2004
    #3
  4. "VAT" <> writes:

    > I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to get. I
    > think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the appeal
    > of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?


    Takes Canon lenses. (That's not an *absolute* advantage, but it's an
    advantage for those people with a significant collection of Canon
    lenses already). And has been out for long enough that the people who
    want one mostly already have it.
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jan 14, 2004
    #4
  5. VAT

    cwvalle Guest

    "Jim Townsend" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > VAT wrote:
    >
    > > I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to

    get. I
    > > think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the

    appeal
    > > of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?

    >
    > Price..
    >
    > The 10D was a lot less than the 10D at the outset. Nikon reduced
    > the price of the D100 last summer to put it in line with the 10D..
    > Perhaps a bit too late.
    >
    > As a double whammy, Canon came out with an even less expensive camera that
    > hasn't been matched by any other manufacturer. That's why this group has

    so
    > many 10D and Digital Rebel topics...
    >
    > The D100 is a fabulous camera. Nikon's only weakness was in marketing and
    > innovation. It almost looks like the other manufacturers are handing
    > Canon the DSLR market..
    >
    >
    >
    >


    I think people are waiting for the D70 now. But I really think it's going to
    be a disappointment. A stripped down D100 for only a few hundred less? What
    nikon needs is a full frame digital so we can use our glass.
    I am hoping that the real surprises come in the coolpix line. How about a
    wide angle 10x zoom with better focus and speed than the 5700? How about an
    interchangeable lens digital along the lines of the APS camera bodies. Then
    we could live with that smaller sensor size. That would go a long way to
    keeping prices down. I'm tired of lugging these 4lb dinosaur nikons
    around...
    Carl
     
    cwvalle, Jan 14, 2004
    #5
  6. VAT

    Gill Couto Guest

    They're both very similar in features and specs. They're also both
    brand new designs, instead of improved versions of prior camera
    models. So what's the difference? Canon got a head start in DSLRs,
    it's just marketing momentum. The 10D is an affordable 1D.

    On the Nikon side, the name of the D100 makes it sound like a digital
    version of the F100, kind of like saying it's nothing new except it's
    now digital. Boring, whether better or not. I'd still go for the
    D100 between the two, only to stick with Nikon lenses.

    gill
    http://www.gillcouto.com/

    P.S. And now the D Rebel is an affordable 10D :)


    VAT wrote:
    > I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to get. I
    > think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the appeal
    > of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?
     
    Gill Couto, Jan 14, 2004
    #6
  7. VAT

    Sloopy Guest

    In article <oo4Nb.1452$Xq2.1049@fed1read07>,
    Gill Couto <> wrote:

    > On the Nikon side, the name of the D100 makes it sound like a digital
    > version of the F100, kind of like saying it's nothing new except it's
    > now digital.


    The bogus thing is, it's a digital version of the F80.

    I'd buy a digitial version of the F100 in a heartbeat.

    -Sloopy
     
    Sloopy, Jan 14, 2004
    #7
  8. VAT

    Chris Brown Guest

    In article <oo4Nb.1452$Xq2.1049@fed1read07>,
    Gill Couto <> wrote:
    >They're both very similar in features and specs. They're also both
    >brand new designs, instead of improved versions of prior camera
    >models. So what's the difference? Canon got a head start in DSLRs,
    >it's just marketing momentum. The 10D is an affordable 1D.
    >
    >On the Nikon side, the name of the D100 makes it sound like a digital
    >version of the F100, kind of like saying it's nothing new except it's
    >now digital. Boring, whether better or not.


    But the 10D has exactly the same "problem". There is an EOS 10
    (discontinued), and the 10D sounds like it's a digital version of it
    (actually it's a digital version of the EOS 30, but there's already been a
    D30).
     
    Chris Brown, Jan 14, 2004
    #8
  9. VAT

    George Guest

    I think the difference is that Canon gave its users the shaft on lensmounts
    (EF, FD) in the past and most users of Canon SLRs have lenses fully
    compatible with the Canon line of digital SLRs. Nikon users have been able
    to use their lenses (including metering) for quite some time with some
    lenses only needing AI conversion (a minimal cost). I am a Nikon user (for
    years) and probably could tolerate either the 1.5X magnification factor on
    my existing manual focus lenses (Canon users have it too, even worse at
    1.6X, except on their $8k body) OR not being able to meter with my existing
    manual focus lenses...but won't consider it with both disadvantages. If
    Nikon wishes to force me to buy all new lenses, then Nikon holds no
    advantage over switching to Canon, Olympus, Pentax, etc. For now, I'll just
    wait and see what happens as I LIKE the lenses that I carefully selected
    over quite some period of time and changing them all would be cost
    prohibitive as well as quite a step backwards for some of the photography
    that I do (e.g., using a zoom under studio conditions, most of their current
    zooms shift aperture as you zoom which isn't very convenient with studio
    flash).

    I think a lot of people are also aware of how quickly high tech items become
    landfill and don't relish paying current prices for something that will be
    eclipsed within two years on both price and performance. For instance, I
    once had a business that I bought a computer system for...the system cost
    $140,000 and within eight years I had to PAY to have it hauled away (still
    operational). If you doubt this, think about how much you're willing to pay
    for a new Nikon D1 (not "x", not "h") today...does $5200 seem right, how
    about $2500, no? Maybe $1500? You say you'd rather have a new D100 for
    that price? If you have a business where the digital camera is generating
    revenues faster than it is depreciating, then its purchase still makes
    sense. If you're a hobbyist, you might think differently about your
    multi-thousand dollar purchase being worthless within five years.

    Does that address your question?

    "VAT" <> wrote in message
    news:7f3Nb.8696$...
    > I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to get.

    I
    > think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the appeal
    > of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?
    >
    >
     
    George, Jan 14, 2004
    #9
  10. "VAT" <> wrote in message
    news:7f3Nb.8696$...
    > I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to

    get. I
    > think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the

    appeal
    > of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?



    (1) Price
    (2) The compatibilities (and lack) of the Nikon lens line-up is
    confusing for people who have not used the Nikon system before.
    (3) At least in my area used Canon gear was MUCH easier to find... at
    least until everyone bough DRebels and now you can't find used lenses
    anywhere.
    (4) Canon is much better known in the digital arena
     
    The Black Sheep, Jan 14, 2004
    #10
  11. If you have a large collection of glass, be it Canon or Nikon, you may
    be reluctant to change in either direction.

    On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:06:27 GMT, "VAT" <> wrote:

    >I notice people are eager to buy the Canon 10D, even if it's hard to get. I
    >think the image quality of Nikon is comparable to Canon. What's the appeal
    >of Canon 10D (not counting the afforable Rebel) over Nikon?
    >




    Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a


    Does one child rape really change Strom Thurmond's lifetime record?
    For better or worse?
     
    Rodney Myrvaagnes, Jan 14, 2004
    #11
  12. VAT

    Sloopy Guest

    In article <>,
    Rodney Myrvaagnes <> wrote:

    > Does one child rape really change Strom Thurmond's lifetime record?
    > For better or worse?


    What was the law in the 1920s? 16 years old may very well have been
    legal.

    -Sloopy
     
    Sloopy, Jan 14, 2004
    #12
  13. Sloopy <> writes:

    > In article <oo4Nb.1452$Xq2.1049@fed1read07>,
    > Gill Couto <> wrote:
    >
    >> On the Nikon side, the name of the D100 makes it sound like a digital
    >> version of the F100, kind of like saying it's nothing new except it's
    >> now digital.

    >
    > The bogus thing is, it's a digital version of the F80.
    >
    > I'd buy a digitial version of the F100 in a heartbeat.


    I believe the D1 series is based on the F100, isn't it? Or did that
    go all the way to the F5?
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jan 14, 2004
    #13
  14. VAT

    Hans Kruse Guest

    > I am hoping that the real surprises come in the coolpix line. How about a
    > wide angle 10x zoom with better focus and speed than the 5700? How about

    an
    > interchangeable lens digital along the lines of the APS camera bodies.

    Then
    > we could live with that smaller sensor size. That would go a long way to
    > keeping prices down. I'm tired of lugging these 4lb dinosaur nikons
    > around...


    For some people yes, but you would still have to suffer from the large DOF
    resulting from small sensors. There is no replacement for a DSLR with a
    large sensor and I agree it should be full frame. That will in a few years
    time, I'm sure or at least with a crop factor less the 1.5 or 1.6 for D100
    and 10D.
    Regards,
    Hans
     
    Hans Kruse, Jan 14, 2004
    #14
  15. VAT

    cwvalle Guest

    "Hans Kruse" <> wrote in message
    news:4005c6e8$0$171$...
    > > I am hoping that the real surprises come in the coolpix line. How about

    a
    > > wide angle 10x zoom with better focus and speed than the 5700? How about

    > an
    > > interchangeable lens digital along the lines of the APS camera bodies.

    > Then
    > > we could live with that smaller sensor size. That would go a long way to
    > > keeping prices down. I'm tired of lugging these 4lb dinosaur nikons
    > > around...

    >
    > For some people yes, but you would still have to suffer from the large DOF
    > resulting from small sensors. There is no replacement for a DSLR with a
    > large sensor and I agree it should be full frame. That will in a few years
    > time, I'm sure or at least with a crop factor less the 1.5 or 1.6 for D100
    > and 10D.
    > Regards,
    > Hans
    >
    >


    why would it not be possible to build a 8mm f1.2? wouldn't that get some
    shallowness.
    I still would like to see the bulk come down. I also find it interesting
    that most 35mm photographers struggle with getting adequate dof along with
    good shutter speeds, and since the smaller sensors like the nikon 5700 have
    f2.8 or better, and ASA 800, and deep depth of field, seems like a winner.
    Most of the time, when a person wants shallow dof, it's to draw the subject
    out of the background. Sometimes it's better to re compose this situation
    and fill the frame with the subject. It makes for better impact and less
    waste of valuable pixels. These new toys do have their limitations, but so
    do all the other formats. Making use of what's available is the best way to
    maximize the power of photography. Digital cameras need powerful frame
    filling images, just like video cameras and movie cameras do. Thats because
    the digital still camera is really a decendant of video cameras, not film
    and not 35mm.

    Carl
     
    cwvalle, Jan 14, 2004
    #15
  16. VAT

    cwvalle Guest

    "David Dyer-Bennet" <> wrote in message
    news:-b.net...
    > Sloopy <> writes:
    >
    > > In article <oo4Nb.1452$Xq2.1049@fed1read07>,
    > > Gill Couto <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On the Nikon side, the name of the D100 makes it sound like a digital
    > >> version of the F100, kind of like saying it's nothing new except it's
    > >> now digital.

    > >
    > > The bogus thing is, it's a digital version of the F80.
    > >
    > > I'd buy a digitial version of the F100 in a heartbeat.

    >
    > I believe the D1 series is based on the F100, isn't it? Or did that
    > go all the way to the F5?
    > --
    > David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    > RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    > Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots:

    <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    > Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>


    Only because they share lensmounts and general shape. The D1 is closer to
    the F5. The F100 is newer. The D100 is somewhat similar to the F100 in that
    it is a stripped down D1 just like the F100 is a really stripped down F5
    rather than an improved N90. But that's to say there's no real need for the
    new D70. I mean it's no big improvement over the D100 since it isn't any
    better, some say worse, and isn't really much cheaper either. We shall have
    to wait and see. Until the monster film based units get a full size sensor
    to go with the gigantic glass there isn't much point in going for it. The
    reviews of the big Kodak/Nikon full size sensor camera are also
    disappointing especially when you consider price.
    The idea that nikon is now coming out with small focal length digital lenses
    for full frame bodies does not make me think that they want to pursue the
    full frame sensor either. I suppose the best deal yet was the DCS760 which
    at least let you use film in the F5 if you wanted to. I wish they had
    thought about a digital back for my F100 system rather than the D70. As it
    is I refuse to spend the cash on another nikon dinosaur, so I'm keeping my
    F100 system, and added a Coolpix 5700 for digital.
    Carl
     
    cwvalle, Jan 14, 2004
    #16
  17. VAT

    Gill Couto Guest

    DPreview says the Nikon D1 design is based half on the F100 and half
    on the F5. I'm not sure how much is meant by "design" in terms of
    camera body or functional features. That makes me rethink if Canon
    really beat Nikon in the DSLR market, maybe not.

    gill
    http://www.gillcouto.com/

    David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
    > Sloopy <> writes:
    >
    >
    >>In article <oo4Nb.1452$Xq2.1049@fed1read07>,
    >> Gill Couto <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On the Nikon side, the name of the D100 makes it sound like a digital
    >>>version of the F100, kind of like saying it's nothing new except it's
    >>>now digital.

    >>
    >>The bogus thing is, it's a digital version of the F80.
    >>
    >>I'd buy a digitial version of the F100 in a heartbeat.

    >
    >
    > I believe the D1 series is based on the F100, isn't it? Or did that
    > go all the way to the F5?
     
    Gill Couto, Jan 15, 2004
    #17
  18. VAT

    Gavin Cato Guest

    I don't have any problem getting effective DoF from my Nikon DSLR, and I
    wouldn't touch a small compact digital as you struggle to get the same from
    it.

    Gav


    > I still would like to see the bulk come down. I also find it interesting
    > that most 35mm photographers struggle with getting adequate dof along with
    > good shutter speeds, and since the smaller sensors like the nikon 5700

    have
    > f2.8 or better, and ASA 800, and deep depth of field, seems like a winner.
    > Most of the time, when a person wants shallow dof, it's to draw the

    subject
    > out of the background. Sometimes it's better to re compose this situation
    > and fill the frame with the subject. It makes for better impact and less
    > waste of valuable pixels. These new toys do have their limitations, but so
    > do all the other formats. Making use of what's available is the best way

    to
    > maximize the power of photography. Digital cameras need powerful frame
    > filling images, just like video cameras and movie cameras do. Thats

    because
    > the digital still camera is really a decendant of video cameras, not film
    > and not 35mm.
    >
    > Carl
    >
    >
     
    Gavin Cato, Jan 15, 2004
    #18
  19. VAT

    AArDvarK Guest

    nope ... Kodak 14n, full frame 35mm CMOS
    sensor, currently. It has a problem with moire
    patterns on cloth, you'll see by their samples.
    --
    Sincerely,
    Alex
    California central coast
    ----------------------------------------
    e-mail address not given,
    reply here.
    ----------------------------------------

    Hans Kruse
    > For some people yes, but you would still have to suffer from the large DOF
    > resulting from small sensors. There is no replacement for a DSLR with a
    > large sensor and I agree it should be full frame. That will in a few years
    > time, I'm sure or at least with a crop factor less the 1.5 or 1.6 for D100
    > and 10D.
    > Regards,
    > Hans
    >
    >
     
    AArDvarK, Jan 15, 2004
    #19
  20. VAT

    Bobs Guest

    On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:33:00 GMT, "cwvalle" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"David Dyer-Bennet" <> wrote in message
    >news:-b.net...
    >> Sloopy <> writes:
    >>
    >> > In article <oo4Nb.1452$Xq2.1049@fed1read07>,
    >> > Gill Couto <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On the Nikon side, the name of the D100 makes it sound like a digital
    >> >> version of the F100, kind of like saying it's nothing new except it's
    >> >> now digital.
    >> >
    >> > The bogus thing is, it's a digital version of the F80.
    >> >
    >> > I'd buy a digitial version of the F100 in a heartbeat.

    >>
    >> I believe the D1 series is based on the F100, isn't it? Or did that
    >> go all the way to the F5?
    >> --
    >> David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    >> RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    >> Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots:

    ><www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    >> Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

    >
    >Only because they share lensmounts and general shape. The D1 is closer to
    >the F5. The F100 is newer. The D100 is somewhat similar to the F100 in that
    >it is a stripped down D1 just like the F100 is a really stripped down F5
    >rather than an improved N90. But that's to say there's no real need for the
    >new D70. I mean it's no big improvement over the D100 since it isn't any
    >better, some say worse, and isn't really much cheaper either. We shall have
    >to wait and see. Until the monster film based units get a full size sensor
    >to go with the gigantic glass there isn't much point in going for it. The
    >reviews of the big Kodak/Nikon full size sensor camera are also
    >disappointing especially when you consider price.


    Yes, as you say the reviews (of the 14n) don't read all that well, and
    give one pause to consider whether Kodak knew what they were doing in
    introducing it in the first place. However, there are some problems
    that I see with many of the downside reviews I've read. For one,
    these reviews seldom keep up with the constantly upgrading firmware
    for the camera, and v4.4.3 is said to have addressed much of the
    low-light noise problem. Another problem with these reviews seems to
    be a lack of real long-term familiarity with using the camera most
    effectively, avoiding the shortcomings of its non-microlensed CCD.
    I'm not going to tell you that in dim light the 14n can challenge the
    excellent imaging of the considerably more expensive 1DS, but the
    2-stop latitude afforded by the Kodak postprocessing proggie needs to
    be taken full advantage of and exposures adjusted accordingly so as to
    minimize the noise problem. Sure, I've got some complaints about the
    14n--can't fit my 15mm to it, can't use my 85mm PC, battery life,
    bulk, picky about lens exit characteristics, slow on the draw, rant,
    rave, etc., but I'm not going to complain about image or color
    quality. With reasonably well-controlled exposures, this camera is
    capable of producing results that are unchallenged, even by the
    much-vaunted 1DS in some cases. And to prove this (to myself at
    least) a friend of mine with a 1DS, another with a Hassleblad and I
    are going to have an all-out shootout in a few days. When the dust
    settles, maybe we'll know something. Until then, I'll continue to
    call it my "pocket 8X10."

    >The idea that nikon is now coming out with small focal length digital lenses
    >for full frame bodies does not make me think that they want to pursue the
    >full frame sensor either. I suppose the best deal yet was the DCS760 which
    >at least let you use film in the F5 if you wanted to. I wish they had
    >thought about a digital back for my F100 system rather than the D70. As it
    >is I refuse to spend the cash on another nikon dinosaur, so I'm keeping my
    >F100 system, and added a Coolpix 5700 for digital.
    >Carl
    >
     
    Bobs, Jan 15, 2004
    #20
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