why are some images sharp and others not

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by bruin70@mail.com, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. Guest

    i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    the best sharpness.

    1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    set for exposure.

    2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot

    3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different size
    canvas.

    4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the normal
    image size. it is most definitely a soft image.

    the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #1
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  2. Joan Guest

    You might need to focus after you zoom out.

    --
    Joan
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    : i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg,
    iso
    : 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to
    get
    : the best sharpness.
    :
    : 1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the
    canvas(as
    : seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    : screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P"
    is
    : set for exposure.
    :
    : 2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot
    :
    : 3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change
    anything
    : on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different
    size
    : canvas.
    :
    : 4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    : imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the
    normal
    : image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    :
    : the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST???
    or
    : do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    : me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.
    :
     
    Joan, Aug 17, 2006
    #2
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  3. wrote:
    []
    > the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST???
    > or do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right
    > to me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.


    I can't speak specifically for the FZ30, but with many lenses today, there
    is no need to keep the focus constant while zooming, as the focus is
    automatic. I would therefore suggest that you do your focussing at the
    actualy zoom level you intend to use.

    Yes, I would hope that once manual focus was set, it should stay the same,
    but it may not do so if you switch the camera off or allow it to time out.
    Try focussing each time.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Aug 17, 2006
    #3
  4. Sharp Guest

    On 17 Aug 2006 05:16:15 -0700, wrote:

    >i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    >80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    >the best sharpness.
    >
    >1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    >seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    >screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    >set for exposure.
    >
    >2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot

    Some lenses seem to undergo a slight focus shift when the zoom setting
    is changed. Could it be that the degree of unsharpness you are seeing
    is a function of how far you've had to shift the zoom after setting
    focus.

    I'd say you need to try doing the focus setting while at the zoom
    setting you'll use for making the shot.
     
    Sharp, Aug 17, 2006
    #4
  5. Jim Townsend Guest

    wrote:

    > i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    > 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    > the best sharpness.
    >
    > 1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    > seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    > screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    > set for exposure.
    >
    > 2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot
    >
    > 3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    > on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different size
    > canvas.
    >


    Are you using manual focus ?

    Why not let your autofocus determine the focus for each painting after
    you've zoomed to fit the size ?

    If you aren't using a jig to hold the paintings at a precise
    distance from the camera, then any slight change in distance
    will throw off your manual focus settings.




    > 4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    > imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the normal
    > image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    >
    > the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    > do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    > me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.
     
    Jim Townsend, Aug 17, 2006
    #5
  6. Roy G Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    > 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    > the best sharpness.
    >


    Hi.

    I am a little surprised, (very little), that the advocate for the absolute
    superiority of this camera, has not contributed any usefull hints about how
    you should be using it to obtain the quality you need.

    If you change the Zoom setting the lens will need to be re focussed, each
    and every time.

    Are you using a Sturdy Tripod?

    Are you using some sort of remote release or delayed action?

    Are you and everyone else in the room staying still, before and during the
    exposure?

    If not then there will be a very strong possibility of Camera Shake, as well
    as your poor focus.

    You are aware, I hope, that there will be some optimum settings of the lens,
    for both Zoom and Aperture.

    You should be using those settings and moving the camera to get the correct
    framing, and adjusting the shutter speed to get that optimum aperture.

    You will also, of course, not be using the full frame, because any lens
    faults will be more evident at the edges.


    Roy G
     
    Roy G, Aug 17, 2006
    #6
  7. Guest

    You didn't say whether you are using a tripod. A tripod does two
    things. I) makes sure the distance from camera to picture remains the
    same (assuming the new painting is set in exactly the same spot. 2)
    eliminates motion blur, which can look much like defocus. If you are
    shooting indoors, this can result in somewhat slow shutter speed which
    makes motion blur more of a problem. By motion blur I do not mean
    movement of subject, but of the camera- even a slight tilting motion
    will blur the image unless the shutter speed is very fast.


    wrote:
    > i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    > 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    > the best sharpness.
    >
    > 1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    > seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    > screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    > set for exposure.
    >
    > 2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot
    >
    > 3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    > on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different size
    > canvas.
    >
    > 4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    > imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the normal
    > image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    >
    > the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    > do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    > me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #7
  8. Bigguy Guest

    Two things spring to mind....

    First, not all zooms retain focus through their zoom range...

    Second, are all the paintings mounted the same and exactly the same distance
    from the camera?
    With a longish lens and available light you may be using a wide aperture -
    this will give very little depth of field. Half an inch out will make a
    difference here.
    Use a solid tripod, a small aperture (f11 ish) and a cable release...

    Best to focus on each picture individually - are you sure the autofocus is
    off?

    Guy

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    > 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    > the best sharpness.
    >
    > 1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    > seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    > screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    > set for exposure.
    >
    > 2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot
    >
    > 3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    > on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different size
    > canvas.
    >
    > 4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    > imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the normal
    > image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    >
    > the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    > do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    > me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.
    >
     
    Bigguy, Aug 17, 2006
    #8
  9. wrote:
    >the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    >do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    >me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.


    Unless you paintings are precisely positioned the same each
    time, you need to precisely focus each time. Precision
    placement is probably not as easy as precision focus, so go for
    the latter.

    Other things can help too, but I'm not familiar with your camera,
    so some of this may or may not be possible.

    You want adjust lighting and shutter speed to allow using the
    optimum f/stop of your lense. Generally that will be about f/8.
    Some lenses will also be sharp at f/5.6, and some might even be
    at f/11 too. But the farther down you stop, the less critical
    the focus is! Hence while f/5.6 might well be as sharp as the
    lense gets, at f/8 or even f/11 the depth of field is greater
    and therefore things like edges (where the lense exhibits
    curvature of field) will likely be in better focus.

    Obviously the benefits, and the specifics, vary from one lense
    to another. Hence try shooting a few at f/5.6, some at f/8.0,
    and some at f/11 and see if it makes a difference.

    Another point is that if you happen to be using shutter speeds
    that end up down in the 1/10 to 2 second range, your images are
    more suseptable to vibration from the shutter mechanism of the
    camera. Once again, this is very specific to your particular
    setup, and you may or may not actually see or be able to control
    any effects.

    Whatever, solid tripods are wonderful things! (On that note I
    might add that if you do a lot of this, investing in an old
    Majestic tripod might be well worth your trouble. They are not
    suitable for backpacking, and hence old ones sell relatively for
    peanuts.)

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Aug 17, 2006
    #9
  10. Bill Funk Guest

    On 17 Aug 2006 05:16:15 -0700, wrote:

    >i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    >80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    >the best sharpness.
    >
    >1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    >seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    >screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    >set for exposure.
    >
    >2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot
    >
    >3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    >on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different size
    >canvas.
    >
    >4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    >imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the normal
    >image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    >
    >the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    >do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    >me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.


    Not really.
    There's a difference between true zoom lenses and varifocal lenses.
    A tru zoom will act as you expect; set the focus, and zooming won't
    affect the focus.
    A varizoom lens, though, will change focus as you zoom. Many 'zoom'
    lenses today, especially in P&S cameras, are really varifocal lenses,
    and autofocus is supposed to do the focusing chores for you. But, when
    you use manual focus, you'll need to refocus after zooming.
    Hope this helps.
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
     
    Bill Funk, Aug 17, 2006
    #10
  11. Paul Allen Guest

    On 17 Aug 2006 05:16:15 -0700
    wrote:

    > i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    > 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    > the best sharpness.
    >
    > 1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    > seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    > screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    > set for exposure.
    >
    > 2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot


    From page 33 of the manual: "If you use the zoom function after focusing
    on the subject, focus on the subject again."

    The FZ30 lens is not parfocal. Changing the zoom throws the focus off.

    > 3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    > on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different
    > size canvas.
    >
    > 4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    > imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the
    > normal image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    >
    > the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST???
    > or do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right
    > to me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.


    A better way? You mean other than hiring a pro? :)

    You didn't mention lighting. I've experimented with shooting paintings
    and have had a devil of a time getting the color balance right.

    Paul Allen
     
    Paul Allen, Aug 17, 2006
    #11
  12. Jim Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    > 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    > the best sharpness.
    >
    > 1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    > seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    > screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    > set for exposure.
    >
    > 2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot
    >
    > 3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    > on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different size
    > canvas.
    >
    > 4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    > imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the normal
    > image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    >
    > the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    > do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    > me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.
    >

    Yes, they should. Lenses which show variation in focus with a variation in
    focal length have been around for years and years.

    However it costs more to make a constant focus zoom lens. Hence, the less
    you pay, the more compromises you must accept.
    Jim
     
    Jim, Aug 17, 2006
    #12
  13. Guest

    Roy G wrote:

    > I am a little surprised, (very little),,,,,,,,,,,
    > If you change the Zoom setting the lens will need to be re focussed, each
    > and every time.


    i'm surprised, then, that i cannot do something i was able to do 30
    years ago with a simple slr. refocusing after i zoom out defeats the
    whole point of getting the sharpest image. i can mf better than af, and
    zooming in allows me to use the canvas texure to get it exact.

    >
    > Are you using a Sturdy Tripod?


    yes

    > Are you using some sort of remote release or delayed action?
    >

    no

    > Are you and everyone else in the room staying still, before and during the
    > exposure?


    yes

    > You are aware, I hope, that there will be some optimum settings of the lens,
    > for both Zoom and Aperture.


    no i'm not, and how do i find out? does every manual have this? i
    bnever checked but i'm guessing that i'm shooting at about 55-70 slr
    equilvalent.

    > You will also, of course, not be using the full frame, because any lens
    > faults will be more evident at the edges.


    i am using full frame, but the heart of the paiting is what i'm
    complaining about

    >
    >
    > Roy G
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #13
  14. wrote:

    > i'm shooting my artwork with an fz30. settings are extra fine jpg, iso
    > 80 etc etc,,, and i tried to set everything thing else i could to get
    > the best sharpness.
    >
    > 1...with ZOOM + MF, i am able to focus on the weave of the canvas(as
    > seen through enlarged focus assist window which i have set to full
    > screen)....very nice and sharp, about as sharp as i can get it. "P" is
    > set for exposure.
    >
    > 2...i zoom out to get the whole painting.....and shoot
    >
    > 3...i place the other paintings up and shoot. i don't change anything
    > on the camera, except zooming in or out to accomodate a different size
    > canvas.
    >
    > 4..the result,,,,,, two paintings are sharp, one is ok, one is not,
    > imo. in fact the least sharp image is really unacceptable at the normal
    > image size. it is most definitely a soft image.
    >
    > the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    > do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    > me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.


    You need to focus at each focal length. You need to learn when to use
    macro mode. Some lenses will not focus close. Some will only focus
    close at one focal length. Others will focus close at various distances
    depending on the focal length. My Minolta will focus close over a wide
    range of focal lengths in Macro Mode. It also has a super macro mode
    with only one focal length.

    --
    Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
    Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
    http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman
     
    Stephen Henning, Aug 17, 2006
    #14
  15. Guest

    David J Taylor wrote:
    > I can't speak specifically for the FZ30, but with many lenses today, there
    > is no need to keep the focus constant while zooming, as the focus is
    > automatic. I would therefore suggest that you do your focussing at the
    > actualy zoom level you intend to use.
    >
    > Yes, I would hope that once manual focus was set, it should stay the same,
    > but it may not do so if you switch the camera off or allow it to time out.
    > Try focussing each time.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David


    i mf because if i can focus on the canvas weave, i can do better than
    af. that is the reason for my zoom+mf approach.
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #15
  16. Guest

    Jim Townsend wrote:

    > Are you using manual focus ?


    yes because with my way i can focus better than af. but i did not
    expect the focus to change.

    > If you aren't using a jig to hold the paintings at a precise
    > distance from the camera, then any slight change in distance
    > will throw off your manual focus settings.


    the paintings sit on my easel, standing exactkly vertical.
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #16
  17. Guest

    wrote:
    > You didn't say whether you are using a tripod. A tripod does two
    > things. I) makes sure the distance from camera to picture remains the
    > same (assuming the new painting is set in exactly the same spot. 2)
    > eliminates motion blur, which can look much like defocus. If you are
    > shooting indoors, this can result in somewhat slow shutter speed which
    > makes motion blur more of a problem. By motion blur I do not mean
    > movement of subject, but of the camera- even a slight tilting motion
    > will blur the image unless the shutter speed is very fast.


    yes i'm using a tripod. the bad image seems most definitely a SOFT
    IMAGE,,,not motion blur. there is not the slightest indication of
    double, or ghosting. it is soft and even over the whole image.
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #17
  18. Guest

    Bigguy wrote:
    > Two things spring to mind....
    >
    > First, not all zooms retain focus through their zoom range...


    that's really sad!!!

    > Second, are all the paintings mounted the same and exactly the same distance
    > from the camera?
    > With a longish lens and available light you may be using a wide aperture -
    > this will give very little depth of field. Half an inch out will make a
    > difference here.
    > Use a solid tripod, a small aperture (f11 ish) and a cable release...


    mounted the same...on an easel. at first i was uaing A at f11. one of
    the images came out poorly and i switched back AE

    > Best to focus on each picture individually - are you sure the autofocus is
    > off?


    yup. i guess i will have to try each indivisually next. the one
    painting that came out the absolute sharpest was the initial painting
    that i focused on. but i'm very careful, so i never that would be a
    problem.
    >
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #18
  19. Guest

    i guess there are things here that i was taking for granted that i
    shouldn't.

    if the focus changes when i zoom out, that will be a total bummer, as
    that was one reason for doing mf. zoom in + mf = better than af. no
    zoom in + mf = tha same or worse than af.


    Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    > wrote:
    > >the point being,,,SHOULDN'T THEY ALL BE FOCUSED THE SAME AT LEAST??? or
    > >do i have to focus on each painting seperately(doesn't seem right to
    > >me),,,or is there a better way to do what i'm doing.

    >
    > Unless you paintings are precisely positioned the same each
    > time, you need to precisely focus each time. Precision
    > placement is probably not as easy as precision focus, so go for
    > the latter.
    >
    > Other things can help too, but I'm not familiar with your camera,
    > so some of this may or may not be possible.
    >
    > You want adjust lighting and shutter speed to allow using the
    > optimum f/stop of your lense. Generally that will be about f/8.
    > Some lenses will also be sharp at f/5.6, and some might even be
    > at f/11 too. But the farther down you stop, the less critical
    > the focus is! Hence while f/5.6 might well be as sharp as the
    > lense gets, at f/8 or even f/11 the depth of field is greater
    > and therefore things like edges (where the lense exhibits
    > curvature of field) will likely be in better focus.
    >
    > Obviously the benefits, and the specifics, vary from one lense
    > to another. Hence try shooting a few at f/5.6, some at f/8.0,
    > and some at f/11 and see if it makes a difference.
    >
    > Another point is that if you happen to be using shutter speeds
    > that end up down in the 1/10 to 2 second range, your images are
    > more suseptable to vibration from the shutter mechanism of the
    > camera. Once again, this is very specific to your particular
    > setup, and you may or may not actually see or be able to control
    > any effects.
    >
    > Whatever, solid tripods are wonderful things! (On that note I
    > might add that if you do a lot of this, investing in an old
    > Majestic tripod might be well worth your trouble. They are not
    > suitable for backpacking, and hence old ones sell relatively for
    > peanuts.)
    >
    > --
    > Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
    > Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #19
  20. Jim Townsend Guest

    wrote:

    >
    > Jim Townsend wrote:
    >
    >> Are you using manual focus ?

    >
    > yes because with my way i can focus better than af. but i did not
    > expect the focus to change.


    I find that hard to believe, especially since the FZ30 has
    an Electronic Viewfinder. I've never used an FZ30, but I have
    used several cameras with EVF viewfinders. The pixels are just
    too coarse to see details fine enough to determine accurate
    focus.

    But.... You have the camera, so I won't argue :)
     
    Jim Townsend, Aug 17, 2006
    #20
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