Why Are Lecia 6MP cameras so damn Expensive?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Justin, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. Justin

    Justin Guest

    Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand they
    make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment but
    $300+ for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    What am I missing?
    What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?
     
    Justin, Mar 27, 2008
    #1
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  2. Justin

    Gerrit Guest

    "Justin" <> wrote in message
    news:fsf2am$552$...
    > Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand they
    > make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment but $300+
    > for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    > What am I missing?
    > What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?


    What sort of lens does the Sony Cybershit have?
     
    Gerrit, Mar 27, 2008
    #2
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  3. Justin

    Gerrit Guest

    "Gerrit" <> wrote in message
    news:47eb2ec5$0$17323$...
    >
    > "Justin" <> wrote in message
    > news:fsf2am$552$...
    >> Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand they
    >> make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment but $300+
    >> for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    >> What am I missing?
    >> What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?

    >
    > What sort of lens does the Sony Cybershit have?
    >


    oops Freudian slip. :)

    But, many years ago, in a dim dark analogue age Leica made lenses and
    cameras with those lenses and they were acknowledged as among the best. At
    the same time Kodak made the Instamatic camera range. Both manufacturers
    used film in their cameras which were (most likely) made by the same
    manufacturer of film. Leica was much better. Now in the digital age Leica
    makes a camera with their lenses and uses a digital medium (sensor) to
    record the image. Sony make cameras and use a digital medium (sensor) to
    record the images. Both sensors are probably made by the same manufacturer.

    I suggest you go away and but a cheap Sony just like the likes of you did in
    the dim dark analogue age.
     
    Gerrit, Mar 27, 2008
    #3
  4. Justin

    C J Campbell Guest

    On 2008-03-26 19:55:12 -0700, Justin <> said:

    > Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand they
    > make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment but
    > $300+ for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    > What am I missing?
    > What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?


    So get the Panasonic version and save a few bucks.
    --
    Waddling Eagle
    World Famous Flight Instructor
     
    C J Campbell, Mar 27, 2008
    #4
  5. Justin

    Jufi Guest

    "Justin" <> wrote in message
    news:fsf2am$552$...
    > Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand they
    > make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment but $300+
    > for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    > What am I missing?
    > What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?


    All the Leica digitals, save for one, the M8, and rebadged panasonics. The
    only diffeence that I can see is the warranty. So yes, you're paying for a
    name and an extended warranty. Same lens, same sensor, same body.
     
    Jufi, Mar 28, 2008
    #5
  6. Justin

    Chris Savage Guest

    On 2008-03-28, Jufi <> wrote:
    >
    > "Justin" <> wrote in message
    > news:fsf2am$552$...
    >> What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?

    >
    > All the Leica digitals, save for one, the M8, and rebadged panasonics. The
    > only diffeence that I can see is the warranty. So yes, you're paying for a
    > name and an extended warranty. Same lens, same sensor, same body.


    I hear tell that the Leicas have slightly different firmware, or default
    'processing' settings. The murmur is never loud enough to distinguish
    any real signal, and I've never used either.

    Myself, without hands-on experience, I am convinced that you are right.
    The only thing to distinguish a Leica from a Panasonic is the red dot.
    That has always been a ridiculously expensive bit of paint.

    --
    Chris Savage Kiss me. Or would you rather live in a
    Gateshead, UK land where the soap won't lather?
    - Billy Bragg
     
    Chris Savage, Mar 28, 2008
    #6
  7. Justin

    Justin Guest

    C J Campbell wrote:
    > On 2008-03-26 19:55:12 -0700, Justin <> said:
    >
    >> Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand they
    >> make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment but
    >> $300+ for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    >> What am I missing?
    >> What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?

    >
    > So get the Panasonic version and save a few bucks.



    What is the differences between the Panasonic and Leica models? Does
    Panasonic rebadge their cameras, or does Leica rebadge?
    Or does Panasonic supply the bodies and use Leica lenses?
    Does Leica have more features? I don't understand. I'm looking at
    compact point and shoot cameras - the size of the Sony DSC-W70.
     
    Justin, Mar 29, 2008
    #7
  8. Justin

    C J Campbell Guest

    On 2008-03-28 19:51:50 -0700, Justin <> said:

    > C J Campbell wrote:
    >> On 2008-03-26 19:55:12 -0700, Justin <> said:
    >>
    >>> Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand they
    >>> make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment but
    >>> $300+ for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    >>> What am I missing?
    >>> What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?

    >>
    >> So get the Panasonic version and save a few bucks.

    >
    >
    > What is the differences between the Panasonic and Leica models? Does
    > Panasonic rebadge their cameras, or does Leica rebadge?
    > Or does Panasonic supply the bodies and use Leica lenses?
    > Does Leica have more features? I don't understand. I'm looking at
    > compact point and shoot cameras - the size of the Sony DSC-W70.


    Panasonic owns Leica. The Panasonic and Leica cameras are functionally
    identical. Typically the only differences are little things. A
    Panasonic might have a molded plastic hand grip, have a black finish,
    and some plastic controls, while the Leica will have a silver finish,
    no handgrip, metal controls and cost $300 more.

    See DPReview's comments here, for example:

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/leicadigilux2/

    The Sony DSC-W70 and other cameras of that class are all almost
    identical in function and performance. You can spend a lot more and get
    no better picture quality. Unless some particular camera has a feature
    you really need, shop on price.
    --
    Waddling Eagle
    World Famous Flight Instructor
     
    C J Campbell, Mar 29, 2008
    #8
  9. Justin

    Chris Savage Guest

    On 2008-03-29, C J Campbell <> wrote:
    >
    > Panasonic owns Leica.


    Really? When did that happen?

    I know Matsushita/Panasonic has licences to the Leica brand, and Leica
    Camera AG are permanently on the verge of liquidation, but I don't remember
    any announcement of a Matsushita takeover.

    --
    Chris Savage Kiss me. Or would you rather live in a
    Gateshead, UK land where the soap won't lather?
    - Billy Bragg
     
    Chris Savage, Mar 29, 2008
    #9
  10. Justin

    Gary Edstrom Guest

    On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:55:12 -0400, Justin
    <> wrote:

    >What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?


    The Name
     
    Gary Edstrom, Mar 29, 2008
    #10
  11. Justin

    Justin Guest

    C J Campbell wrote:
    > On 2008-03-28 19:51:50 -0700, Justin <> said:
    >
    >> C J Campbell wrote:
    >>> On 2008-03-26 19:55:12 -0700, Justin <>
    >>> said:
    >>>
    >>>> Is Lecia the Lamboghini of everything photographic? I understand
    >>>> they make the best of the best when it comes to film based equipment
    >>>> but $300+ for a 6MP camera while a Sony Cybershot comes in around $100?
    >>>> What am I missing?
    >>>> What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?
    >>>
    >>> So get the Panasonic version and save a few bucks.

    >>
    >>
    >> What is the differences between the Panasonic and Leica models? Does
    >> Panasonic rebadge their cameras, or does Leica rebadge?
    >> Or does Panasonic supply the bodies and use Leica lenses?
    >> Does Leica have more features? I don't understand. I'm looking at
    >> compact point and shoot cameras - the size of the Sony DSC-W70.

    >
    > Panasonic owns Leica. The Panasonic and Leica cameras are functionally
    > identical. Typically the only differences are little things. A Panasonic
    > might have a molded plastic hand grip, have a black finish, and some
    > plastic controls, while the Leica will have a silver finish, no
    > handgrip, metal controls and cost $300 more.
    >
    > See DPReview's comments here, for example:
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/leicadigilux2/
    >
    > The Sony DSC-W70 and other cameras of that class are all almost
    > identical in function and performance. You can spend a lot more and get
    > no better picture quality. Unless some particular camera has a feature
    > you really need, shop on price.


    That last bit I have to disagree. I have a W70 and I bought an Olympus
    FE-290 - the Sony kicked its ass. I took the Olympus back to the store.
    I don't want to start a Sony vs. ** argument but that was my result.
    I has a Canon SD400 - perfect performence but I gave it to a friend in
    in Iraq (with a 2G card). Hope he brings a few interesting pictures home.
    So right now to update my Cameras, I'm looking at the Canon A650is, the
    smaller Sony's and now the Panasonic Lumix.
    But I want something decent because nothing was worse than having lousy
    pictures of an event that only happens once. These are my memories.

    Regarding the Sony Vs. Olympus - the difference was night and day. I
    actually went back home, grabbed the Some, and carried both around the
    rest of the event taking a pic with each to compare.
    So we'll see. I dunno, I probably opened a can of worms here.
     
    Justin, Mar 29, 2008
    #11
  12. Justin

    er Guest

    > What is the differences between the Panasonic and Leica models? Does
    > Panasonic rebadge their cameras, or does Leica rebadge?
    > Or does Panasonic supply the bodies and use Leica lenses?
    > Does Leica have more features? I don't understand.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Leica may have had some hand in the design of the lenses, but absolutely no
    part whatsoever in the design or manufacture of the cameras. It is said
    that the software and firmware are a bit different, but except for the M8, a
    Leica is a Panasonic in every regard.

    EQR
     
    er, Mar 29, 2008
    #12
  13. Justin

    C J Campbell Guest

    On 2008-03-29 09:23:08 -0700, Chris Savage
    <> said:

    > On 2008-03-29, C J Campbell <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Panasonic owns Leica.

    >
    > Really? When did that happen?
    >
    > I know Matsushita/Panasonic has licences to the Leica brand, and Leica
    > Camera AG are permanently on the verge of liquidation, but I don't remember
    > any announcement of a Matsushita takeover.


    You are correct. The largest shareholder of Leica is an investment
    group run by an Austrian family.

    It is a licensing arrangement.
    --
    Waddling Eagle
    World Famous Flight Instructor
     
    C J Campbell, Mar 30, 2008
    #13
  14. > <> wrote:
    > >What does Leica have that nobody else does? Name?

    >

    Gary Edstrom <> wrote:
    > The Name


    Leica earned that name starting as early as 1913 when Leitz produced the
    first practical 35 mm camera, the Leica. Leitz created the 24mm x 36mm
    size for 35 mm cameras using 35mm cinema film.

    The compact size and excellent lenses on Leica's made them unique and
    also made Leitz change its name to Leica in 1986.

    By the early 1930's Leica had interchangeable lenses in rangefinder
    cameras. They had shutter speeds from 1/1000 to 1 second. Nothing else
    came close to a Leica.

    In the 1950's Leica had combined the rangefinder and lens into one unit
    with a bayonet mount. This basic design survived up through the 2003
    model.

    In 2006 Leica released a digital successor to its popular and highly
    successful film cameras. However, it is so sensitive to infrared light
    that it needs an infrared filter under certain circumstances.

    Leica also mass produced SLRs starting in the 1960s. In the 1970s
    electronic SLRs were introduced in conjunction with Minolta. By the
    1990s Leica was designing and producing their own SLRs. But they never
    occupied the unique position of the highly successful Leica rangefinder
    cameras though they shared the same excellent lenses. The Leica SLRs
    were just as big and clumsy as the popular Japanese models.

    In the 1970s, Leica briefly joined with Minolta to also produce a more
    compact rangefinder camera. It used some Minolta made lenses, but could
    also use most all of the M-series Leitz lenses.

    The Leica rangefinder cameras occupy a unique position in the history of
    cameras with unique quality and performance. This reputation is so
    strong that the new MP camera is designed to resemble the original the
    earliest M-series Leicas.

    Leica innovations include:

    The present 35 mm film standard
    Range finder camera with interchangeable lenses
    Aspheric lenses
    Multicoated lenses
    Rare earth lenses
    One of the first SLR's (1935)
    Excellent performance at large apertures for low light photography
    The first combination film & digital SLRs

    Several companies tried to imitate Leica but were never successful.

    The original Leica digital cameras were rebranded Fujifilm models.
    Today they are rebranded Panasonic Lumix models. Panasonic has
    reciprocated by using many Leica lenses on their top of the line
    cameras. This collaboration has improved both companies products.

    --
    Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
    Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA - http://rhodyman.net
     
    Stephen Henning, Mar 30, 2008
    #14
  15. Justin

    Jufi Guest

    "Stephen Henning" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >> <> wrote:

    >
    > Several companies tried to imitate Leica but were never successful.
    >
    > The original Leica digital cameras were rebranded Fujifilm models.
    > Today they are rebranded Panasonic Lumix models. Panasonic has
    > reciprocated by using many Leica lenses on their top of the line
    > cameras. This collaboration has improved both companies products.


    Agreed that Leica has a rich history, but that doesn't change the fact that
    you're paying for almost nothing on their digitals that are rebadged Pannys
    save for an extended warranty. Doubtful it's worth the money.
     
    Jufi, Mar 31, 2008
    #15
  16. Justin

    dj_nme Guest

    Stephen Henning wrote:

    <snip>
    > Leica innovations include:
    >
    > The present 35 mm film standard


    Not quite true, there was at least one comercially available still
    camera which used 35mm film and used the 24x36mm format before the Leiz
    Leica camera.
    The first patent for one was issued to Leo, Audobard and Baradat in
    England in 1908.

    > Range finder camera with interchangeable lenses


    In 1923.
    Developed similtaniously by Zeiss Ikon and realeased as the Contax camera.

    > Aspheric lenses


    Pentax, with the Asahi SMC Takumar 15 mm f/3.5, in 1975.

    > Multicoated lenses


    That would be Pentax again with SMC 1971.

    > Rare earth lenses


    The Soviets beat Leica to the punch with that, several of the Zavod
    Arsnel cameras came with rare-earth lenses during WWII.

    > One of the first SLR's (1935)


    You meant the Visoflex I, didn't you?
    A clunky attachment to a Leica II which turns it into a primitive SLR
    camera.
    So what?
    Zeiss Ikon also had the Flekstopp attachment for their Contax II for use
    with an 18cm lens.

    The first comercially avaivable SLR camera was made by Ihagee, the
    Kine-Exakta in 1936.
    The first "modern" SLR camera with pentaprism eye-level viewfinder was
    the Contax S, in 1949.

    > Excellent performance at large apertures for low light photography


    Canon f1:0.95 5cm lens for their RF camera the "Canon 7" in 1961.

    > The first combination film & digital SLRs


    No, that would be Kodak with their DCS line of digital backs for Nikon
    starting with the Kodak DCS-100 in 1991, for the Nikon FM3.

    > Several companies tried to imitate Leica but were never successful.


    Several companies have overtaken Leica.
    Ihagee - with the Kine-Exakta (the first comercially available SLR
    camera) in 1936
    Pentax - with SMC lens coatings in 1971
    Pentax (again) - Aspheric lenses in 1975
    Kodak - the Kodak DCS (or DCS-100) in 1991, the first digital back to
    fit an SLR camera (the Nikon FM3).
    Canon - the first true Digital SLR, the D30 in 2000.
    There are many, many more which I really can't be bothered digging up to
    throw at you.
     
    dj_nme, Mar 31, 2008
    #16
  17. Justin

    Allen Guest

    dj_nme wrote:
    > Stephen Henning wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >> Leica innovations include:
    >>
    >> The present 35 mm film standard

    >
    > Not quite true, <snip>>


    Ihagee - with the Kine-Exakta (the first comercially available SLR
    > camera) in 1936


    You need to change that to first commercially available _35mm_ SLR
    camera. Don't forget that the Graflex and other cut-film SLRs had been
    around a few decades before the Kine-Exakta.
    Allen
     
    Allen, Mar 31, 2008
    #17
  18. Justin

    dj_nme Guest

    Allen wrote:
    > dj_nme wrote:
    >
    >> Stephen Henning wrote:
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>
    >>> Leica innovations include:
    >>>
    >>> The present 35 mm film standard

    >>
    >>
    >> Not quite true, <snip>>

    >
    >>Ihagee - with the Kine-Exakta (the first comercially available SLR
    >> camera) in 1936

    >
    > You need to change that to first commercially available _35mm_ SLR
    > camera. Don't forget that the Graflex and other cut-film SLRs had been
    > around a few decades before the Kine-Exakta.
    > Allen


    Yes, that's 100 percent true.
    Graflex SLR cameras were using 120 rollfilm in the 1920's, I have two of
    the early ones with a matching rollfilm holders.

    The "Adoration of the Leica" which Gary wrote was all about 35mm film
    camera developments, and so were my responses with firsts which weren't
    by Leiz Optical.
     
    dj_nme, Apr 1, 2008
    #18
  19. Justin

    Justin Guest

    dj_nme wrote:


    snip!

    > The "Adoration of the Leica" which Gary wrote was all about 35mm film
    > camera developments, and so were my responses with firsts which weren't
    > by Leiz Optical.



    Cry havoc! and unleash the dogs of war!
     
    Justin, Apr 1, 2008
    #19
  20. Justin

    van dark Guest

    I own a Exakta - Warex from Ihagee. With the lens. I want to sell it.
    Like new camera. All is technically and optically okay.
    van

    Allen napsal(a):
    > dj_nme wrote:
    >> Stephen Henning wrote:
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>> Leica innovations include:
    >>>
    >>> The present 35 mm film standard

    >>
    >> Not quite true, <snip>>

    >
    > Ihagee - with the Kine-Exakta (the first comercially available SLR
    >> camera) in 1936

    >
    > You need to change that to first commercially available _35mm_ SLR
    > camera. Don't forget that the Graflex and other cut-film SLRs had been
    > around a few decades before the Kine-Exakta.
    > Allen
     
    van dark, Apr 1, 2008
    #20
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