Whole house surge suppressors

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Flea Ridden, Jul 5, 2004.

  1. Flea Ridden

    Flea Ridden Guest

    This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

    So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    how do I know he's telling me the truth?

    Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    tester?

    This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.


    Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    current is flowing through my ground connection.


    Here are random URLs of info:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s_miny=2002&as_maxd=25&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2003

    http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N




    Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
    Usenet:

    MODEL: Panamax Primax
    RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
    JOULES: 2700
    AMPS: 60,000
    CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
    RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
    PRICE: $119.99
    WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
    Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
    household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
    ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
    URLS:
    - Press Release:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...01bd5cec$605a2680$77003dce@oemcomputer&rnum=3

    - Negative Experiences:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...on=us&selm=7nsc8t$fo1$&rnum=4

    - More Negative Experiences:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=UTF-8&edition=us&q=panamax+surge&btnG=Search

    MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
    RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
    JOULES: 950
    AMPS: 50,000
    CIRCUIT TYPE:
    RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
    PRICE: $189.99
    WARRANTY:
    URLS:
    - Positive Comment:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...lm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4

    - Negative Comment:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3

    - Positive Comment:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=5...e=UTF-8&selm=&rnum=2

    MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
    RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT
    http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/P...ector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php

    JOULES: 2,700
    AMPS: 60,000
    CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
    RESPONSE TIME:
    PRICE: $99.99
    WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
    Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
    URLS:
    Model description:

    MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
    RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
    http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/

    JOULES: 1,200
    AMPS: 48,000
    CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
    RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
    PRICE: $69.95
    WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
    URLS:
    - Positive:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s&selm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2

    - Positive:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&q=intermatic&btnG=Search

    - Positive:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...tion=us&selm=&rnum=3

    - Informational:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...=us&selm=bdagtd$&rnum=2

    MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
    cable lines too
    RESELLER:
    JOULES:
    AMPS: 48,000
    CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
    coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
    L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
    Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
    Satellite Protection]
    RESPONSE TIME:
    PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
    http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
    WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
    URLS:
    - Non-negative:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

    - Positive:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

    MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
    RESELLER: StayOnline
    http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
    JOULES: 1050
    AMPS: 125,000
    CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
    (L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
    RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
    PRICE: $149
    WARRANTY:
    URLS:

    MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
    RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
    JOULES:
    AMPS: 40,000
    CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
    RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
    PRICE:
    WARRANTY:
    URLS:
    - Positive:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    Flea Ridden, Jul 5, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Flea Ridden

    Mark Guest

    Reality check here....I don't care what surge protection you use, if
    lightning hits your stuff its fried.

    --
    Mark
    MCSA, CNA, A+, Net+, iNet+, Server+
    "Flea Ridden" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    > http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/
    >
    > So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    > how do I know he's telling me the truth?
    >
    > Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    > tester?
    >
    > This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    > and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.
    >
    >
    > Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    > this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    > at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    > each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    > current is flowing through my ground connection.
    >
    >
    > Here are random URLs of info:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s_miny=2002&as_maxd=25&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2003
    >
    > http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
    > Usenet:
    >
    > MODEL: Panamax Primax
    > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
    > JOULES: 2700
    > AMPS: 60,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
    > PRICE: $119.99
    > WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
    > Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
    > household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
    > ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
    > URLS:
    > - Press Release:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...01bd5cec$605a2680$77003dce@oemcomputer&rnum=3
    >
    > - Negative Experiences:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...on=us&selm=7nsc8t$fo1$&rnum=4
    >
    > - More Negative Experiences:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=UTF-8&edition=us&q=panamax+surge&btnG=Search
    >
    > MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
    > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
    > JOULES: 950
    > AMPS: 50,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE:
    > RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
    > PRICE: $189.99
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    > - Positive Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...lm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4
    >
    > - Negative Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    > - Positive Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=5...e=UTF-8&selm=&rnum=2
    >
    > MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
    > RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT
    >

    http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/P...ector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php
    >
    > JOULES: 2,700
    > AMPS: 60,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME:
    > PRICE: $99.99
    > WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
    > Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
    > URLS:
    > Model description:
    >
    > MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
    > RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
    > http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/
    >
    > JOULES: 1,200
    > AMPS: 48,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
    > PRICE: $69.95
    > WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
    > URLS:
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s&selm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&q=intermatic&btnG=Search
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...tion=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    > - Informational:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...=us&selm=bdagtd$&rnum=2
    >
    > MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
    > cable lines too
    > RESELLER:
    > JOULES:
    > AMPS: 48,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
    > coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
    > L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
    > Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
    > Satellite Protection]
    > RESPONSE TIME:
    > PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
    > http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
    > WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
    > URLS:
    > - Non-negative:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    > MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
    > RESELLER: StayOnline
    > http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
    > JOULES: 1050
    > AMPS: 125,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
    > (L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
    > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
    > PRICE: $149
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    >
    > MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
    > RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
    > JOULES:
    > AMPS: 40,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
    > RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
    > PRICE:
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Mark, Jul 5, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Flea Ridden

    rj Guest

    Call the local electric utility, where I live, they'll put one in and charge
    you $6.00 per month. Anything gets fried by lightning, they'll pay for it.

    "Flea Ridden" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    > http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/
    >
    > So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    > how do I know he's telling me the truth?
    >
    > Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    > tester?
    >
    > This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    > and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.
    >
    >
    > Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    > this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    > at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    > each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    > current is flowing through my ground connection.
    >
    >
    > Here are random URLs of info:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s_miny=2002&as_maxd=25&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2003
    >
    > http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
    > Usenet:
    >
    > MODEL: Panamax Primax
    > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
    > JOULES: 2700
    > AMPS: 60,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
    > PRICE: $119.99
    > WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
    > Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
    > household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
    > ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
    > URLS:
    > - Press Release:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...01bd5cec$605a2680$77003dce@oemcomputer&rnum=3
    >
    > - Negative Experiences:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...on=us&selm=7nsc8t$fo1$&rnum=4
    >
    > - More Negative Experiences:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=UTF-8&edition=us&q=panamax+surge&btnG=Search
    >
    > MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
    > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
    > JOULES: 950
    > AMPS: 50,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE:
    > RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
    > PRICE: $189.99
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    > - Positive Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...lm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4
    >
    > - Negative Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    > - Positive Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=5...e=UTF-8&selm=&rnum=2
    >
    > MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
    > RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT
    >

    http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/P...ector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php
    >
    > JOULES: 2,700
    > AMPS: 60,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME:
    > PRICE: $99.99
    > WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
    > Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
    > URLS:
    > Model description:
    >
    > MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
    > RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
    > http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/
    >
    > JOULES: 1,200
    > AMPS: 48,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
    > PRICE: $69.95
    > WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
    > URLS:
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s&selm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&q=intermatic&btnG=Search
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...tion=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    > - Informational:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...=us&selm=bdagtd$&rnum=2
    >
    > MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
    > cable lines too
    > RESELLER:
    > JOULES:
    > AMPS: 48,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
    > coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
    > L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
    > Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
    > Satellite Protection]
    > RESPONSE TIME:
    > PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
    > http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
    > WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
    > URLS:
    > - Non-negative:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    > MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
    > RESELLER: StayOnline
    > http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
    > JOULES: 1050
    > AMPS: 125,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
    > (L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
    > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
    > PRICE: $149
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    >
    > MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
    > RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
    > JOULES:
    > AMPS: 40,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
    > RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
    > PRICE:
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    rj, Jul 5, 2004
    #3
  4. Flea Ridden

    SQLit Guest

    "Flea Ridden" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    > http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/
    >
    > So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    > how do I know he's telling me the truth?
    >
    > Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    > tester?
    >
    > This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    > and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.
    >
    >
    > Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    > this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    > at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    > each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    > current is flowing through my ground connection.
    >

    drivel snipped

    If your trying to protect from lightning then you need a lightning
    protection system. try UL-96A for the specs. Every system I installed helped
    a little when the strike came. Nothing is guaranteed protection for
    lightning way to many variables.

    IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
    Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have decent
    protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now have
    two to work with.
    There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
    MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,, who
    knows.

    Grounding and installation are the most important. The average Joe
    electrician is not going to have an ground tester. Are you planning a 3
    point or 4 point test? I used to use 3 point a lot, also called fall of
    potential. 4 point I used for measuring the soil resistively for
    installation of ground systems. Then there are the clamp on ground testers
    which can do the job with out shutting down the electrical service for a
    test.
    http://www.electricitymetering.com/...ectProduct-idzq3258zq4category_idzq379zq1true .
    The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a fair
    amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
    less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
    rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to add
    2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms. These must
    be installed per the local and national codes.

    The wires should be short as possible for connecting your surge arrestor. CH
    and other manufactures make units that connect to the buss for services. SQD
    has one for the homeline panel that plugs in like a breaker. The most
    important part is to have the let through at the service arrestor be below
    the threshold of the point of use arrestor.
    You can put that warranty crap in you peace pipe and smoke it. I used to
    work for an OEM and they NEVER paid a single claim in 8 years for arrestors.
    You will never be able to prove the unit ever failed to work. Make the best
    choices you can and hope for the best.
    SQLit, Jul 5, 2004
    #4
  5. Flea Ridden

    Chip Orange Guest

    Perhaps true, but not very useful as advice (kind of like saying I don't
    care how well you take care of your health, if you're hit by a bus, that's
    it!).


    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Reality check here....I don't care what surge protection you use, if
    > lightning hits your stuff its fried.
    >
    > --
    > Mark
    > MCSA, CNA, A+, Net+, iNet+, Server+
    > "Flea Ridden" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    > > http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/
    > >
    > > So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    > > how do I know he's telling me the truth?
    > >
    > > Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    > > tester?
    > >
    > > This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    > > and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.
    > >
    > >
    > > Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    > > this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    > > at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    > > each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    > > current is flowing through my ground connection.
    > >
    > >
    > > Here are random URLs of info:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...tmail.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups?num=100&hl=en&l
    r%3Dlang_en%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26as_drrb%3Db%26q%3D%2Bf
    ranklin%2Bgroup%253Aalt.certification.a-plus%2Bauthor%253Aw_tom%26btnG%3DGoo
    gle%2BSearch%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D5%26as_miny%3D2002%26as_maxd%3D25%26
    as_maxm%3D8%26as_maxy%3D2003
    > >
    > > http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
    > > Usenet:
    > >
    > > MODEL: Panamax Primax
    > > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
    > > JOULES: 2700
    > > AMPS: 60,000
    > > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
    > > RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
    > > PRICE: $119.99
    > > WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
    > > Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
    > > household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
    > > ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
    > > URLS:
    > > - Press Release:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...01bd5cec$605a2680$77003dce@oemcomputer&rnum=3
    > >
    > > - Negative Experiences:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...on=us&selm=7nsc8t$fo1$&rnum=4
    > >
    > > - More Negative Experiences:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=UTF-8&edition=us&q=panamax+surge&btnG=Search
    > >
    > > MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
    > > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
    > > JOULES: 950
    > > AMPS: 50,000
    > > CIRCUIT TYPE:
    > > RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
    > > PRICE: $189.99
    > > WARRANTY:
    > > URLS:
    > > - Positive Comment:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...lm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4
    > >
    > > - Negative Comment:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    > >
    > > - Positive Comment:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=5...e=UTF-8&selm=&rnum=2
    > >
    > > MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
    > > RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT
    > >

    >

    http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/P...ector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php
    > >
    > > JOULES: 2,700
    > > AMPS: 60,000
    > > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
    > > RESPONSE TIME:
    > > PRICE: $99.99
    > > WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
    > > Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
    > > URLS:
    > > Model description:
    > >
    > > MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
    > > RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
    > >

    http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/
    > >
    > > JOULES: 1,200
    > > AMPS: 48,000
    > > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
    > > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
    > > PRICE: $69.95
    > > WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
    > > URLS:
    > > - Positive:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=....com&rnum=2&prev=/groups?q=panamax+primax&hl=
    en%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3D7ukvpr%2524dja%25241%2540new
    s.mks.com%26rnum%3D2
    > >
    > > - Positive:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&q=intermatic&btnG=Search
    > >
    > > - Positive:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...tion=us&selm=&rnum=3
    > >
    > > - Informational:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...=us&selm=bdagtd$&rnum=2
    > >
    > > MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
    > > cable lines too
    > > RESELLER:
    > > JOULES:
    > > AMPS: 48,000
    > > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
    > > coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
    > > L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
    > > Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
    > > Satellite Protection]
    > > RESPONSE TIME:
    > > PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
    > > http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
    > > WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
    > > URLS:
    > > - Non-negative:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    > >
    > > - Positive:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    > >
    > > MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
    > > RESELLER: StayOnline
    > > http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
    > > JOULES: 1050
    > > AMPS: 125,000
    > > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
    > > (L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
    > > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
    > > PRICE: $149
    > > WARRANTY:
    > > URLS:
    > >
    > > MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
    > > RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
    > > JOULES:
    > > AMPS: 40,000
    > > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
    > > RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
    > > PRICE:
    > > WARRANTY:
    > > URLS:
    > > - Positive:
    > >

    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Chip Orange, Jul 5, 2004
    #5
  6. Flea Ridden

    Rich Grise Guest

    on Monday 05 July 2004 10:18 am, SQLit wrote:

    >
    > "Flea Ridden" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    >> http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/
    >>
    >> So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    >> how do I know he's telling me the truth?

    > . The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a
    > fair
    > amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
    > less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
    > rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to
    > add 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
    > These must be installed per the local and national codes.


    For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
    Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
    deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
    on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
    open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
    the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
    supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
    you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
    fitting, and continue, etc.

    Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
    --
    Cheers!
    Rich
    Rich Grise, Jul 5, 2004
    #6
  7. Flea Ridden

    Flea Ridden Guest

    I couldn't use that clamp-on ground tester to see if my phone and cable lines are adequately grounded. Shouldn't I know how well they are grounded before I make a decision on whether or
    not to purchase a surge suppresser like the Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, which protects phone lines and cable lines as well?




    SQLit wrote:

    > "Flea Ridden" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    > > http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/
    > >
    > > So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    > > how do I know he's telling me the truth?
    > >
    > > Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    > > tester?
    > >
    > > This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    > > and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.
    > >
    > >
    > > Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    > > this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    > > at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    > > each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    > > current is flowing through my ground connection.
    > >

    > drivel snipped
    >
    > If your trying to protect from lightning then you need a lightning
    > protection system. try UL-96A for the specs. Every system I installed helped
    > a little when the strike came. Nothing is guaranteed protection for
    > lightning way to many variables.
    >
    > IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
    > Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have decent
    > protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now have
    > two to work with.
    > There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
    > MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,, who
    > knows.
    >
    > Grounding and installation are the most important. The average Joe
    > electrician is not going to have an ground tester. Are you planning a 3
    > point or 4 point test? I used to use 3 point a lot, also called fall of
    > potential. 4 point I used for measuring the soil resistively for
    > installation of ground systems. Then there are the clamp on ground testers
    > which can do the job with out shutting down the electrical service for a
    > test.
    > http://www.electricitymetering.com/...ectProduct-idzq3258zq4category_idzq379zq1true .
    > The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a fair
    > amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
    > less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
    > rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to add
    > 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms. These must
    > be installed per the local and national codes.
    >
    > The wires should be short as possible for connecting your surge arrestor. CH
    > and other manufactures make units that connect to the buss for services. SQD
    > has one for the homeline panel that plugs in like a breaker. The most
    > important part is to have the let through at the service arrestor be below
    > the threshold of the point of use arrestor.
    > You can put that warranty crap in you peace pipe and smoke it. I used to
    > work for an OEM and they NEVER paid a single claim in 8 years for arrestors.
    > You will never be able to prove the unit ever failed to work. Make the best
    > choices you can and hope for the best.
    Flea Ridden, Jul 5, 2004
    #7
  8. Flea Ridden

    w_tom Guest

    Ground tester is for measuring the conductivity of earth. This is
    different from the wires that connect to that single point earth
    ground. Those wires are best 'tested' by visual inspection. Low
    conductivity might appear good to the tester. But higher impedance
    created by wire too long, splices, sharp bends, wire inside metallic
    conduit, wire bundled with other non-earthing wires, etc all would
    contribute to an inferior connection to earth ground. That tester
    cannot test wire impedance. Low impedance (not just good conductivity)
    is essential to effective protection.

    Conductivity of earth ground is only one factor in surge protection.
    Another factor that is not measured is how well that single point
    ground makes earth beneath the building equipotential. Furthermore,
    how each incoming utility connects to that earthing point is, but,
    another factor in protection - another factor that cannot be tested.
    Either that connection is made via a 'less than 10 foot' wire OR
    connection made through a surge protector. (Notice MOVs are not surge
    protection; MOVs simply the equivalent of that earthing wire). But how
    each incoming utility connects to single point earth ground is best
    determined by visual inspection.

    Furthermore, the above is only a household secondary protection.
    The 'whole house' protector is only secondary protection. Primary
    protector is installed by the utility. That primary protection system
    is shown in pictures with examples of a defective primary protection
    system:
    http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
    And rules for earthing:
    http://www.tvtower.com/grounding_and_bonding.html

    Yes, one can measure the conductivity of earth. That, in part,
    defines effectiveness of a protection system. But other essential
    parts are best verified only using visual inspection.

    Does one require cable and phone protection? The telco installs and
    earths an effective protector for free. They already should make that
    'less than 10 foot' earthing connection to single point ground. CATV
    needs no protector. CATV protection is the 'less than 10 foot' wire
    that connects ground block to single point earth ground. Why install
    a protector when a hardwire connection does same thing?

    This we do know. Effective protection from a direct lightning
    strike is so well proven that damage is considered traceable to human
    failure.

    Flea Ridden <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > I couldn't use that clamp-on ground tester to see if my phone and
    > cable lines are adequately grounded. Shouldn't I know how well they
    > are grounded before I make a decision on whether or not to purchase a
    > surge suppresser like the Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, which
    > protects phone lines and cable lines as well?
    w_tom, Jul 6, 2004
    #8
  9. Flea Ridden

    Bob S. Guest

    "SQLit" <> wrote in message news:<l3gGc.10204$nc.4311@fed1read03>...

    > IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
    > Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have decent
    > protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now have
    > two to work with.


    I have 2 point protection - service and point of use. I have had 2
    lightning strikes in the past few years and have had no power related
    damage. However, both times it wiped out my tv's by coming in the
    cable tv line. Last week it got 3 tv's ($2500 loss). Sure wish there
    was a better way of protecting the cable.

    > There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
    > MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,, who
    > knows.


    They usually blow open so you don't know they're not working. I have
    only seen one blow to a short - kept popping a breaker.

    > The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a fair
    > amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
    > less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
    > rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to add
    > 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.


    I have had to pour 50# bags of rock salt around ground rods in sandy
    soil to get less than 5 ohms. Have had to cad-weld rods end-to-end and
    go down 50 ft. to get a good ground. Have also had to create a ground
    field of up to 12 interconnected rods. Sometimes you just do what you
    have to do!

    > You can put that warranty crap in you peace pipe and smoke it. I used to
    > work for an OEM and they NEVER paid a single claim in 8 years for arrestors.
    > You will never be able to prove the unit ever failed to work. Make the best
    > choices you can and hope for the best.


    And the fine print says you have to have affidavits from all utility
    companies, service providers, and home insurance companies stating
    they will not pay for losses before the arrestor company will even
    accept your claim.

    Bob S.
    Bob S., Jul 6, 2004
    #9
  10. Flea Ridden

    Beachcomber Guest

    On 5 Jul 2004 20:01:55 -0700, (w_tom) wrote:

    >Ground tester is for measuring the conductivity of earth. This is
    >different from the wires that connect to that single point earth
    >ground. Those wires are best 'tested' by visual inspection. Low
    >conductivity might appear good to the tester. But higher impedance
    >created by wire too long, splices, sharp bends, wire inside metallic
    >conduit, wire bundled with other non-earthing wires, etc all would
    >contribute to an inferior connection to earth ground. That tester
    >cannot test wire impedance. Low impedance (not just good conductivity)
    >is essential to effective protection.
    >


    Regarding the Watt's Up Meter Technology. Using existing electronic
    meters, a version of this would be easy enough for the power companies
    to implement. With the technology available today, there is no
    significant technical barrier to doing this. They could charge you
    something extra for a remote detailed readout of your hourly power
    consumption and how much you are paying for it on an hour-by-hour
    basis. It might even help you save some energy when you are more
    aware of what you are paying for it up-to-the minute.

    The problem is that the power companies don't really want you to be
    too aware of what you are paying for energy. Saving energy may be
    good for you and your neighbor (unless your neighbor is president of
    the power company and their bonus is tied to the gross revenue of the
    company), but it is their interest for you to consume as much power as
    possible (particularly during off peak hours).

    Beachcomber
    Beachcomber, Jul 6, 2004
    #10
  11. Flea Ridden

    jk Guest

    Flea Ridden <> wrote:


    >So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    >how do I know he's telling me the truth?
    >


    How do you know any one is?
    But what you want is not an electrician.
    You want an electrical testing company.


    >Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    >tester?


    Thats a big range, but no. You could make one.



    >This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    >and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.



    >
    >Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    >this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    >at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    >each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    >current is flowing through my ground connection


    I think we still have some equipment that could do that for you, but I
    doubt you want to pay for it or for the software system to run it.






    jk
    jk, Jul 6, 2004
    #11
  12. Flea Ridden

    w_tom Guest

    And again we have this misconception that a 'service entrance' and a
    'point of use' protectors are protection. Again, protectors and
    protection are two different components in a protection 'system'.
    Again, protection is that single point earth ground. Protectors are
    only electrical switches or connections to that single point ground.
    A protector without that single point earth ground is doing nothing
    effective.

    The CATV line is as easy to protect as all other incoming utility
    wires. It must first make a connection to single point earth ground -
    the protection - before entering the building. Newly revitalized
    cable companies are now teaching their employees this 60+ year old
    technology. Technology that long understood and that repeatedly
    proven. And yet still, here in the 21st Century, we still have people
    'assuming' a protector is protection. A protector is only as
    effective as its earth ground. How does the incoming cable get
    protected? Throw away the protector and connect that incoming cable
    direct - hardwired - to single point earth ground. No earth ground
    means no effective protection.

    Why might the TV be damaged on its cable connection? If cable was
    properly earthed, then incoming transient is on some other utility.
    One typical incoming source is the AC electric (especially if
    appliance is connected to an adjacent plug-in protector). Incoming on
    AC electric, through TV, and outgoing to earth ground via cable.
    First everything in an electrical path from cloud to ground conducts
    the transient. Only then does one device in that path fail - often a
    component on TV's cable connection. Many then assume the surge came
    in on cable when, in reality, surge was incoming on AC electric and
    outgoing on cable connection.


    (Bob S.) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I have 2 point protection - service and point of use. I have had 2
    > lightning strikes in the past few years and have had no power related
    > damage. However, both times it wiped out my tv's by coming in the
    > cable tv line. Last week it got 3 tv's ($2500 loss). Sure wish there
    > was a better way of protecting the cable.
    w_tom, Jul 6, 2004
    #12
  13. <snip>
    > (Bob S.) wrote in message

    news:<>...
    > > I have 2 point protection - service and point of use. I have had 2
    > > lightning strikes in the past few years and have had no power related
    > > damage. However, both times it wiped out my tv's by coming in the
    > > cable tv line. Last week it got 3 tv's ($2500 loss). Sure wish there
    > > was a better way of protecting the cable.


    Do you have surge suppressors that provide surge reference equalization?
    What that means is a surge suppressor with power and cable protection in the
    same box. Even if the grounds for both electric and cable service are
    grounded at the same point, it is still possible to end up with an induced
    potential between them at your television. The suppressor with both power
    and cable protection will clamp this potential at a safe level.

    Charles Perry P.E.
    Charles Perry, Jul 6, 2004
    #13
  14. Flea Ridden

    SQLit Guest

    "Michael" <> wrote in message
    news:cYiGc.2885$...
    >
    > > IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
    > > Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have

    decent
    > > protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now

    have
    > > two to work with.
    > > There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
    > > MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,,

    who
    > > knows.

    >
    > Can you chain MOV's to defeat second spikes?


    That is basicly what the zones of protection do. The first takes it down as
    much as it can then the next does its job and hopefully that takes it to a
    level that the point of use can handle.

    > If you have this much time and money, why not put a lightning rod on the
    > roof?

    Rods on the roof only help protect the building. My thrust is to protect my
    sensitive electronics. Not the structure.

    > Michael
    SQLit, Jul 6, 2004
    #14
  15. Flea Ridden

    chris Guest

    Hi

    If the structure gets hit by lightning and catches fire, Electronics are the
    least of your worries.

    Chris

    "SQLit" <> wrote in message
    news:zuyGc.10767$nc.8902@fed1read03...
    >
    > "Michael" <> wrote in message
    > news:cYiGc.2885$...
    > >
    > > > IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
    > > > Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have

    > decent
    > > > protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we

    now
    > have
    > > > two to work with.
    > > > There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the

    rest.
    > > > MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,,

    > who
    > > > knows.

    > >
    > > Can you chain MOV's to defeat second spikes?

    >
    > That is basicly what the zones of protection do. The first takes it down

    as
    > much as it can then the next does its job and hopefully that takes it to a
    > level that the point of use can handle.
    >
    > > If you have this much time and money, why not put a lightning rod on the
    > > roof?

    > Rods on the roof only help protect the building. My thrust is to protect

    my
    > sensitive electronics. Not the structure.
    >
    > > Michael

    >
    >
    chris, Jul 6, 2004
    #15
  16. Flea Ridden

    A Guest

    More interesting for A+ students is which class of fire extinguisher is used
    specifically on electrics. I got this question a few weeks ago in the Core
    exam. I've also had two friends over the years who have had direct hits by
    lightening. The damage is incredible! Alan.
    "Flea Ridden" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
    > http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/
    >
    > So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
    > how do I know he's telling me the truth?
    >
    > Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
    > tester?
    >
    > This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
    > and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.
    >
    >
    > Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
    > this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
    > at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
    > each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
    > current is flowing through my ground connection.
    >
    >
    > Here are random URLs of info:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s_miny=2002&as_maxd=25&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2003
    >
    > http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=3&prev=/groups?q=ground+neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8
    %26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...neutral+hot&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
    >
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...+neutral+hot&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
    > Usenet:
    >
    > MODEL: Panamax Primax
    > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
    > JOULES: 2700
    > AMPS: 60,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
    > PRICE: $119.99
    > WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
    > Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
    > household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
    > ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
    > URLS:
    > - Press Release:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...01bd5cec$605a2680$77003dce@oemcomputer&rnum=3
    >
    > - Negative Experiences:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p...on=us&selm=7nsc8t$fo1$&rnum=4
    >
    > - More Negative Experiences:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...=UTF-8&edition=us&q=panamax+surge&btnG=Search
    >
    > MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
    > RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
    > JOULES: 950
    > AMPS: 50,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE:
    > RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
    > PRICE: $189.99
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    > - Positive Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...lm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4
    >
    > - Negative Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    > - Positive Comment:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=5...e=UTF-8&selm=&rnum=2
    >
    > MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
    > RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT
    >

    http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/P...ector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php
    >
    > JOULES: 2,700
    > AMPS: 60,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME:
    > PRICE: $99.99
    > WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
    > Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
    > URLS:
    > Model description:
    >
    > MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
    > RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
    > http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/
    >
    > JOULES: 1,200
    > AMPS: 48,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
    > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
    > PRICE: $69.95
    > WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
    > URLS:
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s&selm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&q=intermatic&btnG=Search
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...tion=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    > - Informational:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=i...=us&selm=bdagtd$&rnum=2
    >
    > MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
    > cable lines too
    > RESELLER:
    > JOULES:
    > AMPS: 48,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
    > coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
    > L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
    > Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
    > Satellite Protection]
    > RESPONSE TIME:
    > PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
    > http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
    > WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
    > URLS:
    > - Non-negative:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...s?q=IG-1300&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
    >
    > MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
    > RESELLER: StayOnline
    > http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
    > JOULES: 1050
    > AMPS: 125,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
    > (L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
    > RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
    > PRICE: $149
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    >
    > MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
    > RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
    > JOULES:
    > AMPS: 40,000
    > CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
    > RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
    > PRICE:
    > WARRANTY:
    > URLS:
    > - Positive:
    >

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=l...n=us&selm=&rnum=3
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    A, Jul 6, 2004
    #16
  17. SQLit wrote:
    (snip)
    > Rods on the roof only help protect the building. My thrust is to protect my
    > sensitive electronics. Not the structure.


    Would you rather a hit follow the wiring running through the structure
    (and jump through whatever was in the way as it hops between various
    conductors and objects) as it finds its way to ground, or would you
    rather that this current be directed through an intentional path?

    I know which I would choose.

    --
    John Popelish
    John Popelish, Jul 6, 2004
    #17
  18. "Roy McCammon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I picked up one at Home Depot. They only had GE, but I was in luck
    > because my service entrance box was GE. I just kept it on hand and when
    > I had an electrician out for another problem, I had him install it.
    >
    > I don't know if it works, but I've convinced my wife to stop buying
    > the useless ones and I'm ahead on dollars.
    >


    What "useless ones"? If you do not have a separate TVSS at your appliance
    (whether computer or television) that includes plugs for power and
    communications (cable and/or telephone) then you will likely experience
    damage to an appliance some day.

    Charles Perry P.E.
    Charles Perry, Jul 6, 2004
    #18
  19. Flea Ridden

    Rich Grise Guest

    on Tuesday 06 July 2004 08:39 am, A wrote:

    > More interesting for A+ students is which class of fire extinguisher is
    > used specifically on electrics.


    It's a trick question. You can use a C, an AC, a BC, or an ABC. An
    electrical fire is a type "C" fire.

    > I got this question a few weeks ago in the
    > Core exam. I've also had two friends over the years who have had direct
    > hits by lightening. The damage is incredible! Alan.


    I was in an apartment that got hit once. Luckily, I had had the notion
    to unplug the modem. ;-) The answering machine was a total loss, and
    the TV had the weirdest malfunction I've ever seen - it wouldn't turn
    off! I paid a tech $35 to diagnose it, and I replaced the transistor
    myself. Down the hallway, at least one exit light had had the front
    panel blown off, and the lamp was dangling by its wires. The manager
    said there was about $7,000 worth of damage from the one strike.
    --
    Cheers!
    Rich
    Rich Grise, Jul 7, 2004
    #19
  20. "Roy McCammon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > Charles Perry wrote:
    > > "Roy McCammon" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>I picked up one at Home Depot. They only had GE, but I was in luck
    > >>because my service entrance box was GE. I just kept it on hand and when
    > >>I had an electrician out for another problem, I had him install it.
    > >>
    > >>I don't know if it works, but I've convinced my wife to stop buying
    > >>the useless ones and I'm ahead on dollars.
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > What "useless ones"? If you do not have a separate TVSS at your

    appliance
    > > (whether computer or television) that includes plugs for power and
    > > communications (cable and/or telephone) then you will likely experience
    > > damage to an appliance some day.
    > >
    > > Charles Perry P.E.

    >
    > I don't believe separate TVSS provide any significant protection.
    >
    > Roy McCammon P.E.
    >
    >
    >


    We have tons of test data proving that it is necessary to provide a surge
    equilization TVSS at any equipment that is powered from the electrical
    system and connected to one, or more, communication systems.

    Read this:

    http://www.eeel.nist.gov/817/817g/spd-anthology/files/Enlightening.pdf

    Charles Perry P.E.
    Charles Perry, Jul 7, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. BananaPannaPoe

    Re: Repost: All about surge protection by W_Tom

    BananaPannaPoe, Jul 29, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    584
    BananaPannaPoe
    Jul 29, 2003
  2. Brad

    Whole-House Electrostatic Filters

    Brad, Nov 19, 2003, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    290
  3. Replies:
    11
    Views:
    810
  4. Leythos
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    907
    bud--
    Mar 29, 2007
  5. AG

    Re: Whole house surge suppressors

    AG, Jul 6, 2004, in forum: A+ Certification
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    372
Loading...

Share This Page