Which Routers

Discussion in 'Cisco' started by skurlock, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. skurlock

    skurlock Guest

    Greetings! Brand new to this newsgroup. Been in the IT world for many
    years. Main background is in servers and small business (50 users or
    less) networks. Novell & Microsoft. Very little Cisco experience.
    Recently decided to change that and picked up a few Cisco related
    books. I'm looking to buy a couple inexpensive routers to practice on.
    Don't want to spend more than $500 total. Checked ebay but there are
    sooooo many choices. Can anyone give me model numbers of a couple
    decent routers I can look for? Appears there's a lot of 25xx versions
    that are relatively cheap but I really don't know one model from
    another. Any help/guidance would be appreciated. Thanks.
    skurlock, Mar 14, 2005
    #1
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  2. skurlock

    sqrfolkdnc Guest

    Here is a list of 2500 routers (you will have to reassemble the url)

    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps233/
    products_tech_note09186a0080094e93.shtml

    Here is a list of 4000 series:

    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps5199/
    products_data_sheet09186a0080092069.html

    But if you have $500, you may want to get some 19xx switches to, if so,
    make sure they are "enterprise" versions (-EN in the part number). For
    the routers you want enterprise software, but with enough memory, there
    are alternatives.

    Also, with $500, you might be able to get a 2600 router or 29xx switch,
    plus a few of the cheaper ones if you shop carefully, and don't seek a
    large quantity. Both of those have features not present on the older
    routers and switches.

    You need to decide if you can manage with token ring ports (all token
    ring routers tend to sell for less than ethernet).

    You will need to buy DB60 crossover cables to connect them to each
    other and other cables for some 4000s or some 2600s.

    The 2509-2512 let you connect into the console port of 8 or 16 other
    switches or routers, making it easier to use token ring units.

    The 2524 and 2525 need modules to be of any use, without the correct
    module, they are pretty much useless.

    The 2520-2523 let you build a frame relay cloud with 4 or 10 access
    points.
    sqrfolkdnc, Mar 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. skurlock

    sqrfolkdnc Guest

    this might be better on alt.certification.cisco
    sqrfolkdnc, Mar 14, 2005
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    skurlock <> wrote:
    :Very little Cisco experience.
    :Recently decided to change that and picked up a few Cisco related
    :books. I'm looking to buy a couple inexpensive routers to practice on.
    :Don't want to spend more than $500 total.

    :Can anyone give me model numbers of a couple
    :decent routers I can look for?

    Tricky.

    : Appears there's a lot of 25xx versions
    :that are relatively cheap but I really don't know one model from
    :another.

    The 2500 series is nearly completely obsolete; only two of the models
    can still be ordered, and they aren't long for this world.
    If I recall correctly the 2500 were mostly 10 Mbit half duplex.

    You are going to find it difficult to find two routers for $US500.
    The prices you are looking at on ebay are mostly for hardware only:
    except for a few authorized dealers, when you buy a used Cisco
    device, you do -not- get a right to use the software, and you
    must "relicense" the software that is there. If the used machine
    is old (as the 2500s certainly are) then the IOS version on it is
    not likely to be at all recent: you have to pay Cisco another fee
    to buy a more current version. If you also want to change
    the basic facilities that the device can handle (e.g.,
    you want AppleTalk, or firewall services) then there is yet another
    fee to change "feature sets".

    The devices that might still be affordable on your $US500 budget
    even after the various fees are the 800 series (e.g., 801)
    and 820 series (e.g., 827). Those are fixed configuration routers.
    Also, the SOHO 70 series might be affordable as well: there are
    a lot of similarities between the SOHO series and the 800 series,
    with the main difference being that the SOHO series is aimed at
    a much much smaller office (e.g., 5 devices.)

    With the budget you mention, I suspect that the only other
    thing you will be able to afford after all the fees is possibly
    a couple of 1600 routers with the most basic of "feature sets".
    But changing feature sets on the 1600 would likely push you
    outside your budget.
    --
    Feep if you love VT-52's.
    Walter Roberson, Mar 14, 2005
    #4
  5. skurlock

    Eric Louie Guest

    Sure - get the following as a starter
    2501 router, 16M flash, 16M RAM, qty 2 ($200)
    2900 switch, qty 1 WS-C2912-XL-EN ($160)
    two AUI-10BT Transceivers ($10)
    two Cat5 10BT patch cables (negligible)
    one DCE-DTE serial cable (High density DB-60) ($10)
    one console cable (DB9 to 8-pin modular) ($5)

    Oh, and add shipping, I suppose. That will take you up to $500

    For every router you add, add a DCE-DTE cable and transceiver, and a 2nd hub
    or switch may be helpful, too

    You can probably get that entire kit for $500. Heck, I probably have the
    entire kit available here somewhere....

    -e-

    "skurlock" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Greetings! Brand new to this newsgroup. Been in the IT world for many
    > years. Main background is in servers and small business (50 users or
    > less) networks. Novell & Microsoft. Very little Cisco experience.
    > Recently decided to change that and picked up a few Cisco related
    > books. I'm looking to buy a couple inexpensive routers to practice on.
    > Don't want to spend more than $500 total. Checked ebay but there are
    > sooooo many choices. Can anyone give me model numbers of a couple
    > decent routers I can look for? Appears there's a lot of 25xx versions
    > that are relatively cheap but I really don't know one model from
    > another. Any help/guidance would be appreciated. Thanks.
    >
    Eric Louie, Mar 14, 2005
    #5
  6. In article <358Zd.18471$>,
    Eric Louie <> wrote:
    :Sure - get the following as a starter
    :2501 router, 16M flash, 16M RAM, qty 2 ($200)
    :2900 switch, qty 1 WS-C2912-XL-EN ($160)

    :Oh, and add shipping, I suppose. That will take you up to $500

    And how much is relicensing and upgrading of IOS going to add to that?
    --
    "I want to make sure [a user] can't get through ... an online
    experience without hitting a Microsoft ad"
    -- Steve Ballmer [Microsoft Chief Executive]
    Walter Roberson, Mar 14, 2005
    #6
  7. skurlock

    Eric Louie Guest

    The Cisco policy reference here is (URL wrap may occur)
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/ordering...software_transfer_and_licensing_overview.html
    which states that IOS may not be transferred when the hardware platform is
    resold. There is a re-order procedure at:
    http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/csc/refurb_equipment/sworder.html - an
    example based on the 2600

    For the 2500 series routers, end of life is coming soon...at which point
    we'll need to find out how the policy holds
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps233/prod_eol_notice09186a008032d605.html

    For the 2900 series switches, they just went into end of sale, and end of
    life is quite a way out
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps607/prod_eol_notice09186a00801c937c.html

    To inquire about the actual costs and processes of relicensing, one may
    email Cisco at

    SmartNet for the product is also available which grants the end-user an
    IP-only feature set for the hardware. However, SmartNet for the 2500's may
    not be available anymore.

    According to my pricelist, the relicensing for 2500 IOS IP (basic IOS) is
    $1200 per unit

    2900-XL enterprise is $300


    "Walter Roberson" <-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
    news:d13fj5$l00$...
    > In article <358Zd.18471$>,
    > Eric Louie <> wrote:
    > :Sure - get the following as a starter
    > :2501 router, 16M flash, 16M RAM, qty 2 ($200)
    > :2900 switch, qty 1 WS-C2912-XL-EN ($160)
    >
    > :Oh, and add shipping, I suppose. That will take you up to $500
    >
    > And how much is relicensing and upgrading of IOS going to add to that?
    > --
    > "I want to make sure [a user] can't get through ... an online
    > experience without hitting a Microsoft ad"
    > -- Steve Ballmer [Microsoft Chief Executive]
    Eric Louie, Mar 14, 2005
    #7
  8. skurlock

    Uli Link Guest

    Eric Louie schrieb:

    > The Cisco policy reference here is (URL wrap may occur)
    > http://www.cisco.com/en/US/ordering...software_transfer_and_licensing_overview.html
    > which states that IOS may not be transferred when the hardware platform is
    > resold. There is a re-order procedure at:
    > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/csc/refurb_equipment/sworder.html - an
    > example based on the 2600


    IANAL, but:
    Things are different in the whole European Community. So buy from there
    if you are in the U.S. and you still have concerns. ;-)

    This is what Cisco wishes to be the truth to protect their highly
    non-competitive prices and God-like behaviour. The reason why many
    companies never will buy anything from Cisco again.

    But in real world the Customer bought (and not licensed!) the hardware
    and the standard software (a.k.a. the operating system a.k.a IOS) and
    Cisco has *no* right to restrict the customer to resell the hardware
    incl. the unlimited right to use the software which becomes *property*
    of the customer with the original payment.

    It is comparable to M$ trying to prohibit the resell of OEM Version of
    Windows and they lost their case, like most Automotive companies lost
    their cases.

    This may be different in the U.S. or if the reseller is both *not an end
    user* and has contractual obligations with Cisco like a partnership.

    Cisco claim the grey market to be illegal. This statement is simply
    false. The only thing illegal are the chapters in the partner contracts
    urging a reseller to accept such a clause.

    Cisco has the right to limit warranty to the original customer or refuse
    selling software updates.

    You can be sure that Cisco won't sue a customer in the EU, because after
    a court's rule, they have to completely open their business marktet ;-)

    Nonetheless Cisco's support is excellent. But not every customer needs
    excellent support.

    --
    Uli

    These opinions are mine. All found typos are yours.
    Uli Link, Mar 14, 2005
    #8
  9. skurlock

    Peter Guest

    -cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) wrote

    >You are going to find it difficult to find two routers for $US500.
    >The prices you are looking at on ebay are mostly for hardware only:
    >except for a few authorized dealers, when you buy a used Cisco
    >device, you do -not- get a right to use the software, and you
    >must "relicense" the software that is there.


    Is this really true for any Cisco router sold on Ebay??

    Perhaps this explains why Cisco 803 routers go for GBP 15.00 :)

    But seriously Cisco stuff is the best. The configuration may be a
    great job creation/security scheme but the products do work very well.


    Peter.
    --
    Return address is invalid to help stop junk mail.
    E-mail replies to but remove the X and the Y.
    Please do NOT copy usenet posts to email - it is NOT necessary.
    Peter, Mar 14, 2005
    #9
  10. skurlock

    Peter Guest

    Uli Link <> wrote

    >IANAL, but:
    >Things are different in the whole European Community. So buy from there
    >if you are in the U.S. and you still have concerns. ;-)
    >
    >This is what Cisco wishes to be the truth to protect their highly
    >non-competitive prices and God-like behaviour. The reason why many
    >companies never will buy anything from Cisco again.
    >
    >But in real world the Customer bought (and not licensed!) the hardware
    >and the standard software (a.k.a. the operating system a.k.a IOS) and
    >Cisco has *no* right to restrict the customer to resell the hardware
    >incl. the unlimited right to use the software which becomes *property*
    >of the customer with the original payment.
    >
    >It is comparable to M$ trying to prohibit the resell of OEM Version of
    >Windows and they lost their case, like most Automotive companies lost
    >their cases.
    >
    >This may be different in the U.S. or if the reseller is both *not an end
    >user* and has contractual obligations with Cisco like a partnership.
    >
    >Cisco claim the grey market to be illegal. This statement is simply
    >false. The only thing illegal are the chapters in the partner contracts
    >urging a reseller to accept such a clause.
    >
    >Cisco has the right to limit warranty to the original customer or refuse
    >selling software updates.
    >
    >You can be sure that Cisco won't sue a customer in the EU, because after
    >a court's rule, they have to completely open their business marktet ;-)
    >
    >Nonetheless Cisco's support is excellent. But not every customer needs
    >excellent support.


    Yes, all above is correct for the EU. It's also common sense.


    Peter.
    --
    Return address is invalid to help stop junk mail.
    E-mail replies to but remove the X and the Y.
    Please do NOT copy usenet posts to email - it is NOT necessary.
    Peter, Mar 14, 2005
    #10
  11. In article <>,
    Peter <> wrote:
    :-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) wrote

    ;>You are going to find it difficult to find two routers for $US500.
    ;>The prices you are looking at on ebay are mostly for hardware only:
    ;>except for a few authorized dealers, when you buy a used Cisco
    ;>device, you do -not- get a right to use the software, and you
    ;>must "relicense" the software that is there.

    :Is this really true for any Cisco router sold on Ebay??

    If the description does not say "remanufacturered" or "relicensed"
    then Cisco's policy is that the license does not transfer.

    I don't know how EU law modifies this. I thought I understood
    the relevant German law, but then I found myself in the middle of
    a thread in which two German people debated the matter with reference
    to specific clauses, and I found that the law is much messier than
    I thought.
    --
    Look out, there are llamas!
    Walter Roberson, Mar 14, 2005
    #11
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