Which DVD Media to use and how to burn Data?

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by John, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. John

    John Guest

    Hi. I have a lot of files of my computer that I want to save onto DVD.
    They are video files that I have converted to MP4 format to save on
    space using Nero Recode. I don't want to burn them as a movie though
    that can be played back on a DVD Player. I just want to burn the files
    as Data that can be played back on computer. It is also a lot quicker
    to burn this way. If I was to burn it as a Video DVD it would take
    several hours for Nero to encode and author it, whereas if I burn as
    data it only takes a short time, and then I can hopefully open within
    my computer.

    I just wondered what types of DVD media you would consider to be best
    for this? There are quite a lot of different types available now:

    DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R DL etc from many
    different companies and with different burn speeds available as well.

    Would I always be best buying record once media? I have used Verbatims
    DVD-RW and -RW DL media in the past for trying to burn both data discs
    and also to author DVD video to using Nero and other applications.

    When you want to author your own video DVD it often takes a long time
    to do so using Nero and it often failed to burn properly. Perhaps it
    is better to use record once DVD discs for this?

    It is the same with data, I have probably burned about 3 or 4 discs in
    the past of MP4 video files onto DVD-RWs as data, and on one or two of
    the discs it has completely successfully but the resulting disc can
    not be read in my computer DVD drive.

    If I want to save a lot of my files, video files and other files from
    my computer to a blank DVD to save space on my hard drive, what type
    and brand of discs would you recommend I use? And what options should
    I select to burn this sucessfully as a Data/Storage DVD that can be
    easily read back on my computer?

    I have had great trouble in the past burning DVDs using a variety of
    programs.

    Thanks

    John
     
    John, Jul 9, 2006
    #1
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  2. John

    Tonester Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi. I have a lot of files of my computer that I want to save onto DVD.
    > They are video files that I have converted to MP4 format to save on
    > space using Nero Recode. I don't want to burn them as a movie though
    > that can be played back on a DVD Player. I just want to burn the files
    > as Data that can be played back on computer. It is also a lot quicker
    > to burn this way. If I was to burn it as a Video DVD it would take
    > several hours for Nero to encode and author it, whereas if I burn as
    > data it only takes a short time, and then I can hopefully open within
    > my computer.
    >
    > I just wondered what types of DVD media you would consider to be best
    > for this? There are quite a lot of different types available now:
    >


    Ritek or TY DVD-R media.

    Use Nero, choose 'burn data DVD', drag & drop your files.
     
    Tonester, Jul 9, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. John

    Cathy Guest

    I haven't tried this, but it is free:

    http://www.backup.comodo.com/

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi. I have a lot of files of my computer that I want to save onto DVD.
    > They are video files that I have converted to MP4 format to save on
    > space using Nero Recode. I don't want to burn them as a movie though
    > that can be played back on a DVD Player. I just want to burn the files
    > as Data that can be played back on computer. It is also a lot quicker
    > to burn this way. If I was to burn it as a Video DVD it would take
    > several hours for Nero to encode and author it, whereas if I burn as
    > data it only takes a short time, and then I can hopefully open within
    > my computer.
    >
    > I just wondered what types of DVD media you would consider to be best
    > for this? There are quite a lot of different types available now:
    >
    > DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R DL etc from many
    > different companies and with different burn speeds available as well.
    >
    > Would I always be best buying record once media? I have used Verbatims
    > DVD-RW and -RW DL media in the past for trying to burn both data discs
    > and also to author DVD video to using Nero and other applications.
    >
    > When you want to author your own video DVD it often takes a long time
    > to do so using Nero and it often failed to burn properly. Perhaps it
    > is better to use record once DVD discs for this?
    >
    > It is the same with data, I have probably burned about 3 or 4 discs in
    > the past of MP4 video files onto DVD-RWs as data, and on one or two of
    > the discs it has completely successfully but the resulting disc can
    > not be read in my computer DVD drive.
    >
    > If I want to save a lot of my files, video files and other files from
    > my computer to a blank DVD to save space on my hard drive, what type
    > and brand of discs would you recommend I use? And what options should
    > I select to burn this sucessfully as a Data/Storage DVD that can be
    > easily read back on my computer?
    >
    > I have had great trouble in the past burning DVDs using a variety of
    > programs.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > John
    >
    >
    >
     
    Cathy, Jul 9, 2006
    #3
  4. John

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 17:04:48 +0100, John <> Gave us:

    >Hi. I have a lot of files of my computer that I want to save onto DVD.
    >They are video files that I have converted to MP4 format to save on
    >space using Nero Recode. I don't want to burn them as a movie though
    >that can be played back on a DVD Player. I just want to burn the files
    >as Data that can be played back on computer. It is also a lot quicker
    >to burn this way. If I was to burn it as a Video DVD it would take
    >several hours for Nero to encode and author it, whereas if I burn as
    >data it only takes a short time, and then I can hopefully open within
    >my computer.
    >
    >I just wondered what types of DVD media you would consider to be best
    >for this? There are quite a lot of different types available now:
    >
    >DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R DL etc from many
    >different companies and with different burn speeds available as well.
    >
    >Would I always be best buying record once media? I have used Verbatims
    >DVD-RW and -RW DL media in the past for trying to burn both data discs
    >and also to author DVD video to using Nero and other applications.
    >
    >When you want to author your own video DVD it often takes a long time
    >to do so using Nero and it often failed to burn properly. Perhaps it
    >is better to use record once DVD discs for this?
    >
    >It is the same with data, I have probably burned about 3 or 4 discs in
    >the past of MP4 video files onto DVD-RWs as data, and on one or two of
    >the discs it has completely successfully but the resulting disc can
    >not be read in my computer DVD drive.
    >
    >If I want to save a lot of my files, video files and other files from
    >my computer to a blank DVD to save space on my hard drive, what type
    >and brand of discs would you recommend I use? And what options should
    >I select to burn this sucessfully as a Data/Storage DVD that can be
    >easily read back on my computer?
    >
    >I have had great trouble in the past burning DVDs using a variety of
    >programs.
    >
    >Thanks
    >
    >John
    >

    You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.

    That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first came out
    (price wise).

    Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a dump so
    huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too quickly...
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jul 9, 2006
    #4
  5. John

    Ken Maltby Guest

    "Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 17:04:48 +0100, John <> Gave us:
    >
    >>Hi. I have a lot of files of my computer that I want to save onto DVD.
    >>They are video files that I have converted to MP4 format to save on
    >>space using Nero Recode. I don't want to burn them as a movie though
    >>that can be played back on a DVD Player. I just want to burn the files
    >>as Data that can be played back on computer. It is also a lot quicker
    >>to burn this way. If I was to burn it as a Video DVD it would take
    >>several hours for Nero to encode and author it, whereas if I burn as
    >>data it only takes a short time, and then I can hopefully open within
    >>my computer.
    >>
    >>I just wondered what types of DVD media you would consider to be best
    >>for this? There are quite a lot of different types available now:
    >>
    >>DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R DL etc from many
    >>different companies and with different burn speeds available as well.
    >>
    >>Would I always be best buying record once media? I have used Verbatims
    >>DVD-RW and -RW DL media in the past for trying to burn both data discs
    >>and also to author DVD video to using Nero and other applications.
    >>
    >>When you want to author your own video DVD it often takes a long time
    >>to do so using Nero and it often failed to burn properly. Perhaps it
    >>is better to use record once DVD discs for this?
    >>
    >>It is the same with data, I have probably burned about 3 or 4 discs in
    >>the past of MP4 video files onto DVD-RWs as data, and on one or two of
    >>the discs it has completely successfully but the resulting disc can
    >>not be read in my computer DVD drive.
    >>
    >>If I want to save a lot of my files, video files and other files from
    >>my computer to a blank DVD to save space on my hard drive, what type
    >>and brand of discs would you recommend I use? And what options should
    >>I select to burn this sucessfully as a Data/Storage DVD that can be
    >>easily read back on my computer?
    >>
    >>I have had great trouble in the past burning DVDs using a variety of
    >>programs.
    >>
    >>Thanks
    >>
    >>John
    >>

    > You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.
    >
    > That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first came out
    > (price wise).
    >
    > Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a dump so
    > huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too quickly...
    >


    While I am not in favor of Mr. Fuchs style, or lack there of,
    he's got a point.

    You can put a lot of .mp4 on a large cheap hard drive. The
    drive need not have a high rotation speed, to provide video
    for display. The playback of large sequential media files is
    not demanding at all.

    You can get USB2 hard drive cases for ~$15. You could
    have separate drives for different kinds of material and add
    to them as that kind of material becomes available. Then
    you could have: a "Mysteries Drive", a "Comedies Drive",
    a "SciFi Drive", or whatever; and plug in whichever one
    you feel like watching. You would have hundreds of shows
    to select from instead of the few on a DVD. Also, you can
    sort and transfer the files, at hard drive speeds, into any
    arrangement you wish. You can start with one drive and
    sort its contents into other drives at a later date.

    At this time you might want to consider External SATA,
    as there are more drives available in SATA and you can
    get drive cases that will do USB2 as well. The SATA
    interface can be plug&play also.

    Luck;
    Ken
     
    Ken Maltby, Jul 10, 2006
    #5
  6. John

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:15:58 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
    <> Gave us:

    >
    >"Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 17:04:48 +0100, John <> Gave us:
    >>
    >>>Hi. I have a lot of files of my computer that I want to save onto DVD.
    >>>They are video files that I have converted to MP4 format to save on
    >>>space using Nero Recode. I don't want to burn them as a movie though
    >>>that can be played back on a DVD Player. I just want to burn the files
    >>>as Data that can be played back on computer. It is also a lot quicker
    >>>to burn this way. If I was to burn it as a Video DVD it would take
    >>>several hours for Nero to encode and author it, whereas if I burn as
    >>>data it only takes a short time, and then I can hopefully open within
    >>>my computer.
    >>>
    >>>I just wondered what types of DVD media you would consider to be best
    >>>for this? There are quite a lot of different types available now:
    >>>
    >>>DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R DL etc from many
    >>>different companies and with different burn speeds available as well.
    >>>
    >>>Would I always be best buying record once media? I have used Verbatims
    >>>DVD-RW and -RW DL media in the past for trying to burn both data discs
    >>>and also to author DVD video to using Nero and other applications.
    >>>
    >>>When you want to author your own video DVD it often takes a long time
    >>>to do so using Nero and it often failed to burn properly. Perhaps it
    >>>is better to use record once DVD discs for this?
    >>>
    >>>It is the same with data, I have probably burned about 3 or 4 discs in
    >>>the past of MP4 video files onto DVD-RWs as data, and on one or two of
    >>>the discs it has completely successfully but the resulting disc can
    >>>not be read in my computer DVD drive.
    >>>
    >>>If I want to save a lot of my files, video files and other files from
    >>>my computer to a blank DVD to save space on my hard drive, what type
    >>>and brand of discs would you recommend I use? And what options should
    >>>I select to burn this sucessfully as a Data/Storage DVD that can be
    >>>easily read back on my computer?
    >>>
    >>>I have had great trouble in the past burning DVDs using a variety of
    >>>programs.
    >>>
    >>>Thanks
    >>>
    >>>John
    >>>

    >> You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.
    >>
    >> That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first came out
    >> (price wise).
    >>
    >> Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a dump so
    >> huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too quickly...
    >>

    >
    > While I am not in favor of Mr. Fuchs style, or lack there of,
    >he's got a point.
    >
    > You can put a lot of .mp4 on a large cheap hard drive. The
    >drive need not have a high rotation speed, to provide video
    >for display. The playback of large sequential media files is
    >not demanding at all.
    >
    > You can get USB2 hard drive cases for ~$15. You could
    >have separate drives for different kinds of material and add
    >to them as that kind of material becomes available. Then
    >you could have: a "Mysteries Drive", a "Comedies Drive",
    >a "SciFi Drive", or whatever; and plug in whichever one
    >you feel like watching. You would have hundreds of shows
    >to select from instead of the few on a DVD. Also, you can
    >sort and transfer the files, at hard drive speeds, into any
    >arrangement you wish. You can start with one drive and
    >sort its contents into other drives at a later date.
    >
    > At this time you might want to consider External SATA,
    >as there are more drives available in SATA and you can
    >get drive cases that will do USB2 as well. The SATA
    >interface can be plug&play also.
    >



    It is our future.

    Perpendicular media, and laptop form factor 2.5"...

    Yep... a whole shelf full of 'em.

    Might even see a hi res Movie Player that uses hot swap laptop drives
    to distribute, and store movies. I could see the studios going for
    that...

    Your books, your encyclopedias, etc. etc. Hell, if RFIDs were
    included, there would be no more piracy.

    Watch out, boys... it's comin'.
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jul 10, 2006
    #6
  7. John

    John Guest

    On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 20:27:45 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    <> wrote:

    > You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.
    >
    > That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first came out
    >(price wise).
    >
    > Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a dump so
    >huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too quickly...


    The HD drive is a good idea but I tend to think that hard drives are
    more prone to failure.

    If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia files on
    (most of which are news, sports and documentaries particularly
    wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers mating!) I
    would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be backed up
    to.

    With DVD-R discs, I already have a DVD-R/RW drive to make use of, and
    the media does seem to be pretty cheap. £6 or £7 for a pack of 25 TY
    16x discs, or perhaps just £4 or £5 for 25 Ritek 16x ones.

    So what is that? I can't remember how many GB of a DVD disc is usable?
    Say about 4.3GB? 4.3GB x 25 = 107.5GB for only £4 to £7. That's not
    too bad IMHO and very cheap.

    If you got a spindle of 50 discs you would save even more. £13-50 for
    TY 16x DVD-Rs. £7.50 to £9 for 50 Ritek 16x Discs or £9.50 for 50
    Ricoh FujiFilm 16x discs which seem to be quite reliable as well and
    get good reviews.

    If I was to get another SATA Hard Drive to put in my system, I'm not
    sure that my system can accept another one? I am pretty sure there is
    only one slot for one SATA drive which is what is in it now along with
    two ATA drives. I believe that the SATA Controller cards are quite
    expensive as well.

    I think the next time I buy a new Hard Drive will be for my next
    system which will probably be sometime in late 2007 or early 2008.

    John
     
    John, Jul 10, 2006
    #7
  8. John

    Ken Maltby Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 20:27:45 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.
    >>
    >> That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first came out
    >>(price wise).
    >>
    >> Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a dump so
    >>huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too quickly...

    >
    > The HD drive is a good idea but I tend to think that hard drives are
    > more prone to failure.
    >


    Not really, when off line the hard drive is much easier to
    store, in a manner that keeps the data unaffected and totally
    retrievable. Where as DVDs can be easily scratched, even
    if they don't succumb to "Dye Rot". If you were able to
    make "pressed DVDs" you might have a point, but there is
    no data that burned dye DVDs last as long as magnetic tape
    much less magnetic disks.

    For repeated random use, the one hard drive beats 70 DVDs
    any day.


    >If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia files on
    > (most of which are news, sports and documentaries particularly
    > wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers mating!) I
    > would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be backed up
    > to.
    >


    Not so bad an idea if you really want to insure their long term
    survival. (Some call that approach a RAID array) One thing
    you will find is that it takes a lot less time to backup to another
    hard drive than to DVDs. (Even if you don't count the time
    needed to change out those 70 disks.)


    > With DVD-R discs, I already have a DVD-R/RW drive to make use of, and
    > the media does seem to be pretty cheap. £6 or £7 for a pack of 25 TY
    > 16x discs, or perhaps just £4 or £5 for 25 Ritek 16x ones.
    >
    > So what is that? I can't remember how many GB of a DVD disc is usable?
    > Say about 4.3GB? 4.3GB x 25 = 107.5GB for only £4 to £7. That's not
    > too bad IMHO and very cheap.
    >
    > If you got a spindle of 50 discs you would save even more. £13-50 for
    > TY 16x DVD-Rs. £7.50 to £9 for 50 Ritek 16x Discs or £9.50 for 50
    > Ricoh FujiFilm 16x discs which seem to be quite reliable as well and
    > get good reviews.
    >
    > If I was to get another SATA Hard Drive to put in my system, I'm not
    > sure that my system can accept another one? I am pretty sure there is
    > only one slot for one SATA drive which is what is in it now along with
    > two ATA drives. I believe that the SATA Controller cards are quite
    > expensive as well.
    >


    As far as I know there are no SATA controllers that only do one
    drive. (Wait I think there was one VIA chip.) What motherboard
    do you have? SATA Controller cards start around $20.


    > I think the next time I buy a new Hard Drive will be for my next
    > system which will probably be sometime in late 2007 or early 2008.
    >
    > John
    >
    >
     
    Ken Maltby, Jul 10, 2006
    #8
  9. John

    Bill's News Guest

    Ken Maltby wrote:
    > "John" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 20:27:45 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.
    >>>
    >>> That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first
    >>> came out
    >>> (price wise).
    >>>
    >>> Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a
    >>> dump so
    >>> huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too
    >>> quickly...

    >>
    >> The HD drive is a good idea but I tend to think that hard
    >> drives are
    >> more prone to failure.
    >>

    >
    > Not really, when off line the hard drive is much easier to
    > store, in a manner that keeps the data unaffected and totally
    > retrievable. Where as DVDs can be easily scratched, even
    > if they don't succumb to "Dye Rot". If you were able to
    > make "pressed DVDs" you might have a point, but there is
    > no data that burned dye DVDs last as long as magnetic tape
    > much less magnetic disks.
    >
    > For repeated random use, the one hard drive beats 70 DVDs
    > any day.
    >
    >
    >> If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia
    >> files on
    >> (most of which are news, sports and documentaries
    >> particularly
    >> wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers
    >> mating!) I
    >> would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be
    >> backed up
    >> to.
    >>

    >
    > Not so bad an idea if you really want to insure their long
    > term
    > survival. (Some call that approach a RAID array) One thing
    > you will find is that it takes a lot less time to backup to
    > another
    > hard drive than to DVDs. (Even if you don't count the time
    > needed to change out those 70 disks.)
    >
    >
    >> With DVD-R discs, I already have a DVD-R/RW drive to make use
    >> of, and
    >> the media does seem to be pretty cheap. £6 or £7 for a pack
    >> of 25 TY
    >> 16x discs, or perhaps just £4 or £5 for 25 Ritek 16x ones.
    >>
    >> So what is that? I can't remember how many GB of a DVD disc
    >> is
    >> usable? Say about 4.3GB? 4.3GB x 25 = 107.5GB for only £4 to
    >> £7.
    >> That's not too bad IMHO and very cheap.
    >>
    >> If you got a spindle of 50 discs you would save even more.
    >> £13-50
    >> for TY 16x DVD-Rs. £7.50 to £9 for 50 Ritek 16x Discs or
    >> £9.50 for 50
    >> Ricoh FujiFilm 16x discs which seem to be quite reliable as
    >> well and
    >> get good reviews.
    >>
    >> If I was to get another SATA Hard Drive to put in my system,
    >> I'm not
    >> sure that my system can accept another one? I am pretty sure
    >> there is
    >> only one slot for one SATA drive which is what is in it now
    >> along
    >> with two ATA drives. I believe that the SATA Controller cards
    >> are
    >> quite expensive as well.
    >>

    >
    > As far as I know there are no SATA controllers that only do
    > one
    > drive. (Wait I think there was one VIA chip.) What motherboard
    > do you have? SATA Controller cards start around $20.
    >
    >
    >> I think the next time I buy a new Hard Drive will be for my
    >> next
    >> system which will probably be sometime in late 2007 or early
    >> 2008.
    >>
    >> John


    I agree, in principal, with Ken. I have about 4 tB of MPEG2 &
    MPEG4ish video on DVD, @ about 4:3 :: RW:R. This would fit on
    eight 500 gB drives and the roughly 7 cubic feet of DVDs would
    become about 1 cubic foot of HDD.

    500 gB drives pre-packaged in external (USB or firewire)
    housings are about $250; sans housing somewhat less.. The
    number of DVD discs involved is over 800, so the hard drive
    alternative is roughly twice the replacement cost of the DVDs +
    their mini jewel cases.

    Of course it's a lot easier to make the HDD choice today than it
    was 6 years ago when not only prices of both media were quite
    different, but hard drive capacities were not comparable. In
    this regard, I envy your newness to the fray;-0)

    However, from the point of view of damage, losing one or a
    couple of 4.3 gig DVDs is trivial when compared with an
    unrecoverable HDD. Of course many HDD problems are
    recoverable, given the tools - but since 2000 I've only tossed
    one DVD that became unreadable. Some others which became
    unplayable were still copy-able. Having made one bad choice of
    external HDD (a now discarded Maxtor 200 USB) I can attest to
    the value of being current with backups.

    Other advantages, for those who capture TV to PC, is to edit
    from the capture machine directly to an external. The MPEG2 is
    then "ready to play" and ready to move. If reprocessing to
    MPEG4 is desired, then the external drive can be easily moved to
    another system - as the capture/playback machine is relatively
    low power. The output of the recompression is directed to an
    archival external drive - from which it can be backed up to
    whatever media you deem appropriate.

    Whether you choose HDD or DVD as your storage medium you will
    need an index to what's stored - this stuff grows by leaps and
    bounds ;-0) I chose to keep mine as an alphabetic HTML page
    with links to either IMDB or a few of the TV episode catalogues.
    Since I use a PC as the video player now, I can call up this
    page on the main viewing screen to make selections from the
    numbered DVD discs. The links to descriptive materials are
    handy refreshers.

    Finally: your friends and neighbors most likely can not borrow
    one of your HDDs to play at home, so you're keeping within the
    letter of the law;-0)
     
    Bill's News, Jul 10, 2006
    #9
  10. John

    John Guest

    On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:48:01 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"John" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 20:27:45 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.
    >>>
    >>> That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first came out
    >>>(price wise).
    >>>
    >>> Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a dump so
    >>>huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too quickly...

    >>
    >> The HD drive is a good idea but I tend to think that hard drives are
    >> more prone to failure.
    >>

    >
    > Not really, when off line the hard drive is much easier to
    >store, in a manner that keeps the data unaffected and totally
    >retrievable. Where as DVDs can be easily scratched, even
    >if they don't succumb to "Dye Rot". If you were able to
    >make "pressed DVDs" you might have a point, but there is
    >no data that burned dye DVDs last as long as magnetic tape
    >much less magnetic disks.
    >
    > For repeated random use, the one hard drive beats 70 DVDs
    >any day.
    >
    >
    >>If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia files on
    >> (most of which are news, sports and documentaries particularly
    >> wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers mating!) I
    >> would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be backed up
    >> to.
    >>

    >
    > Not so bad an idea if you really want to insure their long term
    >survival. (Some call that approach a RAID array) One thing
    >you will find is that it takes a lot less time to backup to another
    >hard drive than to DVDs. (Even if you don't count the time
    >needed to change out those 70 disks.)
    >
    >
    >> With DVD-R discs, I already have a DVD-R/RW drive to make use of, and
    >> the media does seem to be pretty cheap. £6 or £7 for a pack of 25 TY
    >> 16x discs, or perhaps just £4 or £5 for 25 Ritek 16x ones.
    >>
    >> So what is that? I can't remember how many GB of a DVD disc is usable?
    >> Say about 4.3GB? 4.3GB x 25 = 107.5GB for only £4 to £7. That's not
    >> too bad IMHO and very cheap.
    >>
    >> If you got a spindle of 50 discs you would save even more. £13-50 for
    >> TY 16x DVD-Rs. £7.50 to £9 for 50 Ritek 16x Discs or £9.50 for 50
    >> Ricoh FujiFilm 16x discs which seem to be quite reliable as well and
    >> get good reviews.
    >>
    >> If I was to get another SATA Hard Drive to put in my system, I'm not
    >> sure that my system can accept another one? I am pretty sure there is
    >> only one slot for one SATA drive which is what is in it now along with
    >> two ATA drives. I believe that the SATA Controller cards are quite
    >> expensive as well.
    >>

    >
    > As far as I know there are no SATA controllers that only do one
    >drive. (Wait I think there was one VIA chip.) What motherboard
    >do you have? SATA Controller cards start around $20.


    Abit NF7-S

    I'm pretty sure it only has one SATA slot. I can't remember there
    being two slots.

    John
     
    John, Jul 10, 2006
    #10
  11. John

    Ken Maltby Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:48:01 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"John" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 20:27:45 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> You can get a 300GB hard drive these days for $100.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's like two 100 packs of CD-R media back when it first came out
    >>>>(price wise).
    >>>>
    >>>> Far more reliable.. immediately available storage, and a dump so
    >>>>huge that even your porn lovin' ass won't fill it up too quickly...
    >>>
    >>> The HD drive is a good idea but I tend to think that hard drives are
    >>> more prone to failure.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Not really, when off line the hard drive is much easier to
    >>store, in a manner that keeps the data unaffected and totally
    >>retrievable. Where as DVDs can be easily scratched, even
    >>if they don't succumb to "Dye Rot". If you were able to
    >>make "pressed DVDs" you might have a point, but there is
    >>no data that burned dye DVDs last as long as magnetic tape
    >>much less magnetic disks.
    >>
    >> For repeated random use, the one hard drive beats 70 DVDs
    >>any day.
    >>
    >>
    >>>If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia files on
    >>> (most of which are news, sports and documentaries particularly
    >>> wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers mating!) I
    >>> would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be backed up
    >>> to.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Not so bad an idea if you really want to insure their long term
    >>survival. (Some call that approach a RAID array) One thing
    >>you will find is that it takes a lot less time to backup to another
    >>hard drive than to DVDs. (Even if you don't count the time
    >>needed to change out those 70 disks.)
    >>
    >>
    >>> With DVD-R discs, I already have a DVD-R/RW drive to make use of, and
    >>> the media does seem to be pretty cheap. £6 or £7 for a pack of 25 TY
    >>> 16x discs, or perhaps just £4 or £5 for 25 Ritek 16x ones.
    >>>
    >>> So what is that? I can't remember how many GB of a DVD disc is usable?
    >>> Say about 4.3GB? 4.3GB x 25 = 107.5GB for only £4 to £7. That's not
    >>> too bad IMHO and very cheap.
    >>>
    >>> If you got a spindle of 50 discs you would save even more. £13-50 for
    >>> TY 16x DVD-Rs. £7.50 to £9 for 50 Ritek 16x Discs or £9.50 for 50
    >>> Ricoh FujiFilm 16x discs which seem to be quite reliable as well and
    >>> get good reviews.
    >>>
    >>> If I was to get another SATA Hard Drive to put in my system, I'm not
    >>> sure that my system can accept another one? I am pretty sure there is
    >>> only one slot for one SATA drive which is what is in it now along with
    >>> two ATA drives. I believe that the SATA Controller cards are quite
    >>> expensive as well.
    >>>

    >>
    >> As far as I know there are no SATA controllers that only do one
    >>drive. (Wait I think there was one VIA chip.) What motherboard
    >>do you have? SATA Controller cards start around $20.

    >
    > Abit NF7-S
    >
    > I'm pretty sure it only has one SATA slot. I can't remember there
    > being two slots.
    >
    > John
    >

    http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=1&model=6
     
    Ken Maltby, Jul 10, 2006
    #11
  12. John

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:31:41 +0100, John <> Gave us:

    >The HD drive is a good idea but I tend to think that hard drives are
    >more prone to failure.



    Hahahahaha.. You're gonna get a lot of comebacks on that one.

    Hard drives are the MOST reliable mass data storage devices on the
    planet. Bar none.

    One could scrawl a few scratches in a beech tree, but that would't
    be mass storage, that would be storage on a mass.
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jul 11, 2006
    #12
  13. John

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:31:41 +0100, John <> Gave us:

    >If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia files on
    >(most of which are news, sports and documentaries particularly
    >wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers mating!) I
    >would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be backed up
    >to.


    If you have that much of a problem with hard drives, you shouldn't
    use a computer at all.

    They are absolutely reliable, and need not be backed up at all.
     
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jul 11, 2006
    #13
  14. John

    John Guest


    >I agree, in principal, with Ken. I have about 4 tB of MPEG2 &
    >MPEG4ish video on DVD, @ about 4:3 :: RW:R. This would fit on
    >eight 500 gB drives and the roughly 7 cubic feet of DVDs would
    >become about 1 cubic foot of HDD.
    >
    >500 gB drives pre-packaged in external (USB or firewire)
    >housings are about $250; sans housing somewhat less.. The
    >number of DVD discs involved is over 800, so the hard drive
    >alternative is roughly twice the replacement cost of the DVDs +
    >their mini jewel cases.
    >
    >Of course it's a lot easier to make the HDD choice today than it
    >was 6 years ago when not only prices of both media were quite
    >different, but hard drive capacities were not comparable. In
    >this regard, I envy your newness to the fray;-0)
    >
    >However, from the point of view of damage, losing one or a
    >couple of 4.3 gig DVDs is trivial when compared with an
    >unrecoverable HDD. Of course many HDD problems are
    >recoverable, given the tools - but since 2000 I've only tossed
    >one DVD that became unreadable. Some others which became
    >unplayable were still copy-able. Having made one bad choice of
    >external HDD (a now discarded Maxtor 200 USB) I can attest to
    >the value of being current with backups.
    >
    >Other advantages, for those who capture TV to PC, is to edit
    >from the capture machine directly to an external. The MPEG2 is
    >then "ready to play" and ready to move. If reprocessing to
    >MPEG4 is desired, then the external drive can be easily moved to
    >another system - as the capture/playback machine is relatively
    >low power. The output of the recompression is directed to an
    >archival external drive - from which it can be backed up to
    >whatever media you deem appropriate.
    >
    >Whether you choose HDD or DVD as your storage medium you will
    >need an index to what's stored - this stuff grows by leaps and
    >bounds ;-0) I chose to keep mine as an alphabetic HTML page
    >with links to either IMDB or a few of the TV episode catalogues.
    >Since I use a PC as the video player now, I can call up this
    >page on the main viewing screen to make selections from the
    >numbered DVD discs. The links to descriptive materials are
    >handy refreshers.
    >
    >Finally: your friends and neighbors most likely can not borrow
    >one of your HDDs to play at home, so you're keeping within the
    >letter of the law;-0)


    Thanks for the responses I appreciate it. Perhaps I will consider a
    new drive instead. I think maybe I should just use the DVD to burn
    home movies for distribution to family and friends etc.

    I don't think I will need quite that much space in storage though. I
    don't have that many DVDs. I have captured a lot of video though to
    MiniDV of family, friends, travels etc.

    I'll have to work out what I can afford for a hard drive because I
    wouldn't be comfortable without having a second to back up to incase
    the first crashed. I'm not sure if Data Recovery prices have come down
    much in the last few years? I'd probably guess that they haven't very
    much.

    So are SATA drives generally considered the best (fastest) at the
    moment? Are external USB or FireWire Hard Drives any good or are they
    a lot slower than internal SATA and ATA drives?

    And the drive enclosures that are on the market in abundance... Do you
    just buy a regular internal SATA or ATA drive, put it inside the
    enclosure and then you can attach it via USB or Firewire? Would this
    method not slow it down or does it work quite well?

    Sorry for the 101 questions and thanks for the help with this.

    John
     
    John, Jul 12, 2006
    #14
  15. John

    Ken Maltby Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >
    > Thanks for the responses I appreciate it. Perhaps I will consider a
    > new drive instead. I think maybe I should just use the DVD to burn
    > home movies for distribution to family and friends etc.
    >
    > I don't think I will need quite that much space in storage though. I
    > don't have that many DVDs. I have captured a lot of video though to
    > MiniDV of family, friends, travels etc.
    >
    > I'll have to work out what I can afford for a hard drive because I
    > wouldn't be comfortable without having a second to back up to incase
    > the first crashed. I'm not sure if Data Recovery prices have come down
    > much in the last few years? I'd probably guess that they haven't very
    > much.
    >


    www.geeks.com had WD 250GB 7200RPM 8MB SATA drives
    for $62.50 a piece, and you can maybe find a better deal with a
    little effort.

    A hard disk powered down in a drawer or on a shelf is not subject
    to crashing, unless you drop it or throw it against the wall. The data
    will not need "Data Recovery" unless something were to happen to it
    during the limited time it is transferring files to or from your computer.
    Again, short of mishandling, it is no more exposed to failure that the
    drives permanently installed in your system, during the time it is
    connected, and much less so when it is not connected.



    > So are SATA drives generally considered the best (fastest) at the
    > moment? Are external USB or FireWire Hard Drives any good or are they
    > a lot slower than internal SATA and ATA drives?
    >

    The SATA drives are cheaper to make and are a glut on the market.
    The speed of the drive is not a factor for the storage and playback of
    video files. (The slowest hard drives are fast enough.)

    > And the drive enclosures that are on the market in abundance... Do you
    > just buy a regular internal SATA or ATA drive, put it inside the
    > enclosure and then you can attach it via USB or Firewire? Would this
    > method not slow it down or does it work quite well?
    >

    You need the enclosure to be able to handle the type of drive you
    want to install, and the type of interface you want to use. You could
    have an enclosure that can take an ata/ide drive and interface with
    your PC via a External SATA interface or vicea versa. You can get
    enclosures that can connect using any of several interfaces. The
    enclosures are normally limited to one type of hard drive though.


    > Sorry for the 101 questions and thanks for the help with this.
    >
    > John
    >
    >
     
    Ken Maltby, Jul 13, 2006
    #15
  16. John

    Bill's News Guest

    John wrote:
    >> I agree, in principal, with Ken. I have about 4 tB of MPEG2
    >> &
    >> MPEG4ish video on DVD, @ about 4:3 :: RW:R. This would fit
    >> on
    >> eight 500 gB drives and the roughly 7 cubic feet of DVDs
    >> would
    >> become about 1 cubic foot of HDD.
    >>
    >> 500 gB drives pre-packaged in external (USB or firewire)
    >> housings are about $250; sans housing somewhat less.. The
    >> number of DVD discs involved is over 800, so the hard drive
    >> alternative is roughly twice the replacement cost of the DVDs
    >> +
    >> their mini jewel cases.
    >>
    >> Of course it's a lot easier to make the HDD choice today than
    >> it
    >> was 6 years ago when not only prices of both media were quite
    >> different, but hard drive capacities were not comparable. In
    >> this regard, I envy your newness to the fray;-0)
    >>
    >> However, from the point of view of damage, losing one or a
    >> couple of 4.3 gig DVDs is trivial when compared with an
    >> unrecoverable HDD. Of course many HDD problems are
    >> recoverable, given the tools - but since 2000 I've only
    >> tossed
    >> one DVD that became unreadable. Some others which became
    >> unplayable were still copy-able. Having made one bad choice
    >> of
    >> external HDD (a now discarded Maxtor 200 USB) I can attest to
    >> the value of being current with backups.
    >>
    >> Other advantages, for those who capture TV to PC, is to edit
    >> from the capture machine directly to an external. The MPEG2
    >> is
    >> then "ready to play" and ready to move. If reprocessing to
    >> MPEG4 is desired, then the external drive can be easily moved
    >> to
    >> another system - as the capture/playback machine is
    >> relatively
    >> low power. The output of the recompression is directed to an
    >> archival external drive - from which it can be backed up to
    >> whatever media you deem appropriate.
    >>
    >> Whether you choose HDD or DVD as your storage medium you will
    >> need an index to what's stored - this stuff grows by leaps
    >> and
    >> bounds ;-0) I chose to keep mine as an alphabetic HTML page
    >> with links to either IMDB or a few of the TV episode
    >> catalogues.
    >> Since I use a PC as the video player now, I can call up this
    >> page on the main viewing screen to make selections from the
    >> numbered DVD discs. The links to descriptive materials are
    >> handy refreshers.
    >>
    >> Finally: your friends and neighbors most likely can not
    >> borrow
    >> one of your HDDs to play at home, so you're keeping within
    >> the
    >> letter of the law;-0)

    >
    > Thanks for the responses I appreciate it. Perhaps I will
    > consider a
    > new drive instead. I think maybe I should just use the DVD to
    > burn
    > home movies for distribution to family and friends etc.


    I guess my ramblings were not as incoherent as I'd thought;-)
    DVD is a decent backup media for a hard drive and a copy of that
    backup is quite shareable

    >
    > I don't think I will need quite that much space in storage
    > though


    Best Buy, a misnomer if ever there was one, is selling La Cie
    600 gig pre-packaged external USB2 drives for $270 - shop around
    the net for way better prolong.

    >. I
    > don't have that many DVDs. I have captured a lot of video
    > though to
    > MiniDV of family, friends, travels etc.
    >
    > I'll have to work out what I can afford for a hard drive
    > because I
    > wouldn't be comfortable without having a second to back up to
    > incase
    > the first crashed. I'm not sure if Data Recovery prices have
    > come down
    > much in the last few years? I'd probably guess that they
    > haven't very
    > much.
    >
    > So are SATA drives generally considered the best (fastest) at
    > the
    > moment?


    For editing and authoring, dual internal drives are a must -
    three would be better if you can entice your chosen software
    package to allocate its work space as you direct. Hmmm, and if
    you have enough memory to minimize "virtual" writes. Otherwise
    think four drives. SATA, IDE not a lot of difference for most
    processor intensive jobs - just my opinion though. As they say
    in the milk commercials - GOT SLOTS???

    For transcoding to a more compact format, an external target
    drive is OK because the I/O ratio is so steeply skewed toward I.
    Consider too that you'd most likely then move internal to
    external and you will have wasted whatever saving by an all
    internal drive solution.

    > Are external USB or FireWire Hard Drives any good or are they
    > a lot slower than internal SATA and ATA drives?
    >
    > And the drive enclosures that are on the market in
    > abundance... Do you
    > just buy a regular internal SATA or ATA drive, put it inside
    > the
    > enclosure and then you can attach it via USB or Firewire?
    > Would this
    > method not slow it down or does it work quite well?
    >


    It can be less costly to buy an external enclosure to house a
    typical internal drive. But I don't think so significant a
    saving as to warrant perspiration! And a lot less finger
    pointing by phone support, should you need it!! Both firewire
    and USB2 are slower than internal drives, but the penalty can be
    slight or steep depending upon the task and more specifically
    the end resting place of the data.

    > Sorry for the 101 questions and thanks for the help with this.
    >
    > John
     
    Bill's News, Jul 13, 2006
    #16
  17. John

    Bill's News Guest

    Bill's News wrote:
    > Best Buy, a misnomer if ever there was one, is selling La Cie
    > 600 gig pre-packaged external USB2 drives for $270 - shop
    > around
    > the net for way better prolong.


    I guess I do need to wear my glasses while typing - or do the
    typing before emptying them.

    PRICING
     
    Bill's News, Jul 13, 2006
    #17
  18. John

    John Guest

    On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 01:59:05 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:31:41 +0100, John <> Gave us:
    >
    >>The HD drive is a good idea but I tend to think that hard drives are
    >>more prone to failure.

    >
    >
    > Hahahahaha.. You're gonna get a lot of comebacks on that one.


    Maybe.

    > Hard drives are the MOST reliable mass data storage devices on the
    >planet. Bar none.


    For me personally they haven't been unfortunately.

    I am pretty sure though that on a television programme I saw on Sky
    television here in the UK, they did a test on various forms of
    storage; hard drives, CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, Flash Disks, Tape, Floppy Disk
    etc to see which was the best media as far as data retention was
    concerned.

    They put the different storage medium through a variety of tests, and
    in the end the one that withstood the most damaging tests and you were
    still able to recover data off afterwards was the small Flash Disk.
    All the other mediums couldn't stand up to the same rigorous tests
    with any data still intact and retrievable.

    John
     
    John, Jul 15, 2006
    #18
  19. John

    John Guest

    On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:01:04 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:31:41 +0100, John <> Gave us:
    >
    >>If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia files on
    >>(most of which are news, sports and documentaries particularly
    >>wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers mating!) I
    >>would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be backed up
    >>to.

    >
    > If you have that much of a problem with hard drives, you shouldn't
    >use a computer at all.
    >
    > They are absolutely reliable, and need not be backed up at all.


    So far I've personally had more of a problem with Hard Drives than
    media like CD-R or DVD-R.

    In my lifetime so far I have owned four hard drives, and one of them I
    got stung pretty badly with when the drive heads crashed and I lost
    about 33gb of data. I have still kept hold of the drive in case one
    day the price of data recovery comes down to reasonable levels, then
    there is a small chance I might be able to recover some of the data
    from the drive.

    That's why though I have always been cautious since with data and have
    always made backups to other drives and media. I have always been more
    wary of Hard Drives though because of percentages alone I have
    suffered more. For me personally reliability with Hard Drives is 75%
    with one in four of the drives I have had crashing.

    If I also include the computer systems I use at work the figure is a
    little worse. One in three of the hard drives I've had in different
    systems at work have crashed on me. In total that is 2 out of 7 hard
    drive failures. And that's 71% reliability overall that I've
    personally experienced with hard drives.

    I think as far as internal hard drives are concerned you definitely
    need to have other drives to back up to. Perhaps hard drives are more
    reliable as an external drive that you only connect once in a while
    when you want to make a backup, and for the most part sit on a shelf,
    powered down in a protective enclosure.

    Maybe once I have had 100 hard drives I would be able to get a better
    picture of reliability compared with CD-R and DVD-R. So far though for
    me personally CD-R and DVD-R have been more reliable.

    I will probably still get an external hard drive to use as a backup
    device simply because of the space that so many DVD-Rs would take up,
    and also for the convenience and speed factor. I am still very
    cautious of hard drives though. Once stung twice shy.

    John
     
    John, Jul 15, 2006
    #19
  20. John

    Ken Maltby Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:01:04 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:31:41 +0100, John <> Gave us:
    >>
    >>>If I was to buy one hard drive to store all my multimedia files on
    >>>(most of which are news, sports and documentaries particularly
    >>>wildlife, so not much porn except for Monkeys or Tigers mating!) I
    >>>would also have to buy a second HD that the first would be backed up
    >>>to.

    >>
    >> If you have that much of a problem with hard drives, you shouldn't
    >>use a computer at all.
    >>
    >> They are absolutely reliable, and need not be backed up at all.

    >
    > So far I've personally had more of a problem with Hard Drives than
    > media like CD-R or DVD-R.
    >
    > In my lifetime so far I have owned four hard drives, and one of them I
    > got stung pretty badly with when the drive heads crashed and I lost
    > about 33gb of data. I have still kept hold of the drive in case one
    > day the price of data recovery comes down to reasonable levels, then
    > there is a small chance I might be able to recover some of the data
    > from the drive.
    >
    > That's why though I have always been cautious since with data and have
    > always made backups to other drives and media. I have always been more
    > wary of Hard Drives though because of percentages alone I have
    > suffered more. For me personally reliability with Hard Drives is 75%
    > with one in four of the drives I have had crashing.
    >
    > If I also include the computer systems I use at work the figure is a
    > little worse. One in three of the hard drives I've had in different
    > systems at work have crashed on me. In total that is 2 out of 7 hard
    > drive failures. And that's 71% reliability overall that I've
    > personally experienced with hard drives.
    >

    That's a real tail of woe there, are you sure there isn't
    something you are doing that contributes to all these
    failures?

    > I think as far as internal hard drives are concerned you definitely
    > need to have other drives to back up to. Perhaps hard drives are more
    > reliable as an external drive that you only connect once in a while
    > when you want to make a backup, and for the most part sit on a shelf,
    > powered down in a protective enclosure.
    >


    And this would be different than your 70 DVDs sitting on a
    shelf, in a protective enclosure; how?

    > Maybe once I have had 100 hard drives I would be able to get a better
    > picture of reliability compared with CD-R and DVD-R. So far though for
    > me personally CD-R and DVD-R have been more reliable.
    >


    Hmm... let me guess on where the most failures would be;
    in the 100 Hard drives or the 7000 DVD-R. I know where
    my money would go.

    > I will probably still get an external hard drive to use as a backup
    > device simply because of the space that so many DVD-Rs would take up,
    > and also for the convenience and speed factor. I am still very
    > cautious of hard drives though. Once stung twice shy.
    >
    > John
    >
    >
     
    Ken Maltby, Jul 16, 2006
    #20
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