which D camera ????

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Fire, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. Fire

    Fire Guest

    I've been using my Sony H1 for the last 2yrs, indeed over time I've learn to
    love this hobby.
    Now I intend to switch for a DSLR camera but being new to photographing i'm
    not too sure which camera I should go for.
    At the moment Sony 100A, Olympus E303 and Canon D30 fall under my
    choices.Pls advise thxs.

    --
    FokAlex
     
    Fire, Nov 7, 2006
    #1
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  2. Fire

    Skip Guest

    "Fire" <> wrote in message
    news:eipud8$is8$...
    > I've been using my Sony H1 for the last 2yrs, indeed over time I've learn
    > to love this hobby.
    > Now I intend to switch for a DSLR camera but being new to photographing
    > i'm not too sure which camera I should go for.
    > At the moment Sony 100A, Olympus E303 and Canon D30 fall under my
    > choices.Pls advise thxs.
    >
    > --
    > FokAlex
    >

    Make sure you get the designation of the Canon right, the Canon D30 is a 4
    year old design with only 3 mp. The 30D, which is probably what you meant,
    is a new, current camera with 8 mp.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
     
    Skip, Nov 7, 2006
    #2
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  3. Fire

    bmoag Guest

    Costco is selling a Nikon D80 with the 18-55 and 55-200 for $1299.
    These are kit lenses and while I would never buy either individually the
    price of the package for a beginner is a really awesome value.
    If you persist in your photo interests you will still have an awesome camera
    and if you ever upgrade either lens you will get a real lesson in why lens
    quality still matters in the digital world (although not as much as in the
    film world).
     
    bmoag, Nov 7, 2006
    #3
  4. bmoag wrote:
    > Costco is selling a Nikon D80 with the 18-55 and 55-200 for $1299.
    > These are kit lenses and while I would never buy either individually
    > the price of the package for a beginner is a really awesome value. If
    > you persist in your photo interests you will still have an awesome
    > camera and if you ever upgrade either lens you will get a real lesson
    > in why lens quality still matters in the digital world (although not
    > as much as in the film world).


    That Nikon kit is available only in Costco stores apparently, not at
    their website. The local store had it in stock the other day. I don't
    have that kind of money right now, unfortunately.


    --
    Pat O'Connell
    [note munged EMail address]
    Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
    Kill nothing but vandals...
     
    Pat O'Connell, Nov 7, 2006
    #4
  5. Fire

    just bob Guest

    "Fire" <> wrote in message
    news:eipud8$is8$...
    > I've been using my Sony H1 for the last 2yrs, indeed over time I've learn
    > to love this hobby.
    > Now I intend to switch for a DSLR camera but being new to photographing
    > i'm not too sure which camera I should go for.
    > At the moment Sony 100A, Olympus E303 and Canon D30 fall under my
    > choices.Pls advise thxs.
    >

    You really should add the Pentax to your list, the new K10D seems to have
    features big boys Canon and Nikon include only in their high-end cameras
    (spot metering, weather resistant) or not at all (image stabilization in the
    body, auto ISO, in-camera DNG raw).

    I own about $10k in Canon bodies and lenses but the specs on that Pentax
    really got my attention.

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/
     
    just bob, Nov 7, 2006
    #5
  6. Fire

    Bill Guest

    "Fire" <> wrote in message
    news:eipud8$is8$...
    > I've been using my Sony H1 for the last 2yrs, indeed over time I've
    > learn to love this hobby.
    > Now I intend to switch for a DSLR camera but being new to
    > photographing i'm not too sure which camera I should go for.
    > At the moment Sony 100A, Olympus E303 and Canon D30 fall under my
    > choices.Pls advise thxs.



    First thing you need to do is go to a reputable camera shop, and
    handle all of the cameras there. Take some test shots with similar
    lenses to see how they work. How they feel in your hands can be just
    as important as the features they provide. Make sure you handle the
    models from Nikon and Pentax as well as the brands you mentioned.

    I recently looked at several models and decided that the excellent
    viewfinder and ergonomics of the Nikon D80 was the best option for me.
     
    Bill, Nov 7, 2006
    #6
  7. Fire

    Pete D Guest

    "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message
    news:4550bc48$0$88706$...
    >
    > "Fire" <> wrote in message
    > news:eipud8$is8$...
    >> I've been using my Sony H1 for the last 2yrs, indeed over time I've learn
    >> to love this hobby.
    >> Now I intend to switch for a DSLR camera but being new to photographing
    >> i'm not too sure which camera I should go for.
    >> At the moment Sony 100A, Olympus E303 and Canon D30 fall under my
    >> choices.Pls advise thxs.
    >>

    > You really should add the Pentax to your list, the new K10D seems to have
    > features big boys Canon and Nikon include only in their high-end cameras
    > (spot metering, weather resistant) or not at all (image stabilization in
    > the body, auto ISO, in-camera DNG raw).
    >
    > I own about $10k in Canon bodies and lenses but the specs on that Pentax
    > really got my attention.
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/


    While I agree that the Pentax K10D is a great camera (I have one on order)
    it is not a beginners camera
     
    Pete D, Nov 7, 2006
    #7
  8. Fire

    Bill Guest

    "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message
    news:4550bc48$0$88706$...
    >
    > "Fire" <> wrote in message
    > news:eipud8$is8$...
    >> At the moment Sony 100A, Olympus E303 and Canon D30 fall under my
    >> choices.Pls advise thxs.

    >
    > You really should add the Pentax to your list,


    That I agree with.

    > the new K10D seems to have features big boys Canon and Nikon include
    > only in their high-end cameras (spot metering, weather resistant) or
    > not at all (image stabilization in the body, auto ISO, in-camera DNG
    > raw).


    But that part is very misleading.

    For starters, every single Nikon DSLR has a spot meter, even their
    most inexpensive D50 model, and oldest current D70 design. Canon has
    finally added a spot to the 30D, and the Sony A100 has spot too.

    Canon and Nikon include IS/VR in their lenses for higher performance.
    It's handy to have it in the body, but I don't consider that a
    deal-breaker. The Sony A100 has it built-in too.

    Auto ISO is a feature most other models have such as the Nikon D50,
    D70, D80, D200, Sony Alpha, Canon 30D, etc. Some have more control
    than others with more settings, but they all have basic Auto-ISO.

    And I think DNG is just another excuse for Adobe to gain market
    share - it offers little to end users since all current DSLRs have RAW
    file formats.

    > I own about $10k in Canon bodies and lenses but the specs on that
    > Pentax really got my attention.


    To each their own, but the only thing I like about the K10D is the
    weather seals. It doesn't offer much else that the others don't offer
    in some form or another.
     
    Bill, Nov 7, 2006
    #8
  9. Fire

    Eric Babula Guest

    "Pete D" <> wrote in
    news:4550e342$0$3064$:


    > While I agree that the Pentax K10D is a great camera (I have one on
    > order) it is not a beginners camera
    >
    >

    Then, there's the D100D for the beginner.


    --
    Eric Babula
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
     
    Eric Babula, Nov 8, 2006
    #9
  10. Fire

    Mark² Guest

    bmoag wrote:
    > Costco is selling a Nikon D80 with the 18-55 and 55-200 for $1299.
    > These are kit lenses and while I would never buy either individually
    > the price of the package for a beginner is a really awesome value.
    > If you persist in your photo interests you will still have an awesome
    > camera and if you ever upgrade either lens you will get a real lesson
    > in why lens quality still matters in the digital world (although not
    > as much as in the film world).


    They also have the 400D and kit lens for $819.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
     
    Mark², Nov 8, 2006
    #10
  11. Fire

    Pete D Guest

    "Eric Babula" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9874D0F7B4E24ebabulacare2com@24.94.170.102...
    > "Pete D" <> wrote in
    > news:4550e342$0$3064$:
    >
    >
    >> While I agree that the Pentax K10D is a great camera (I have one on
    >> order) it is not a beginners camera
    >>
    >>

    > Then, there's the D100D for the beginner.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Eric Babula
    > Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    >
    >

    K100D, yes they are a great camera with inbuilt IS, well specced camera that
    is overlooked, this camera will produce 12x18 prints easily.
     
    Pete D, Nov 8, 2006
    #11
  12. Fire

    frederick Guest

    Bill wrote:
    >
    > To each their own, but the only thing I like about the K10D is the
    > weather seals. It doesn't offer much else that the others don't offer in
    > some form or another.
    >

    True - but it does this with a good quality pedigree, and at a price
    that wipes the floor of the rest. The only things it seems to lack that
    any of the others offer is fast frame rate and metal body - although it
    has a metal internal chassis. Those features are only on the D200 and
    30d - which cost about 50% more. It seems the best value 10mp DSLR by a
    long way.
    The only reservation I have about the K10D is the old rule that if
    something seems too good to be true, then...
     
    frederick, Nov 8, 2006
    #12
  13. Fire

    Neil Ellwood Guest

    Pete D wrote:

    > K100D, yes they are a great camera with inbuilt IS, well specced camera that
    > is overlooked, this camera will produce 12x18 prints easily.
    >
    >

    I didn't know that - with my EOS350d I have to use a printer.

    --
    Neil
    swap 'ra' and delete 'l' for email
     
    Neil Ellwood, Nov 8, 2006
    #13
  14. On Nov 7, 8:06 pm, "Bill" <> wrote:
    [snip]
    > And I think DNG is just another excuse for Adobe to gain market
    > share - it offers little to end users since all current DSLRs have RAW
    > file formats.

    [snip]

    In what way does DNG gain market share for Adobe? Anyone can use it,
    and it is widely supported by software products and some cameras. (Over
    130 companies provide products that support DNG in some way).
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/dng/products.htm

    It has significant advantages to many (not yet all) photographers. I
    think it is more important for software products to support it than for
    cameras to do so, but it does mean that cameras that use it are
    immediately supported by a large range of software without waiting for
    upgrades to those products.
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/dng/benefits.htm

    It was a smart move for Pentax, Samsung, and Leica to announce cameras
    during September that used DNG in-camera. It got them some attention
    that they might not otherwise have got, because this issue of the
    proliferation of unpublished raw formats matters to some people.

    --
    Barry Pearson
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
     
    Barry Pearson, Nov 8, 2006
    #14
  15. Fire

    Eric Babula Guest

    Neil Ellwood <> wrote in
    news::

    > Pete D wrote:
    >
    >> K100D, yes they are a great camera with inbuilt IS, well specced
    >> camera that is overlooked, this camera will produce 12x18 prints
    >> easily.
    >>
    >>

    > I didn't know that - with my EOS350d I have to use a printer.
    >


    ;-) Cute!

    --
    Eric Babula
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
     
    Eric Babula, Nov 8, 2006
    #15
  16. Fire

    Bill Guest

    "frederick" <> wrote in message
    news:1162963922.366420@ftpsrv1...
    > Bill wrote:
    >>
    >> To each their own, but the only thing I like about the K10D is the
    >> weather seals. It doesn't offer much else that the others don't
    >> offer in some form or another.
    >>

    > True - but it does this with a good quality pedigree, and at a price
    > that wipes the floor of the rest.


    I don't understand that about the price - it's in the middle of the
    10mp price range, and not significantly more or less than any of the
    10mp models.

    > The only things it seems to lack that any of the others offer is
    > fast frame rate and metal body


    The K10D is not priced to compete with the metal and 5fps models, so
    that's really a non issue and should not be compared to them.

    > The only reservation I have about the K10D is the old rule that if
    > something seems too good to be true, then...


    If I had Pentax lenses, it would be on the top of my list of cameras
    to try out. But so far, I'm not impressed with it beyond the weather
    seals. But that's just me.
     
    Bill, Nov 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Fire

    Bill Guest

    "Barry Pearson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Nov 7, 8:06 pm, "Bill" <> wrote:
    > [snip]
    >> And I think DNG is just another excuse for Adobe to gain market
    >> share - it offers little to end users since all current DSLRs have
    >> RAW
    >> file formats.

    >
    > In what way does DNG gain market share for Adobe?


    It's an Adobe product, and people are like sheep when it comes to
    brand loyalty. Adobe knows this, even though it's an open format, and
    they no doubt get referrals and sales due to it.

    Adobe, like most large software companies that have somewhat of a
    monopoly, doesn't do anything for free. Creating a new format and
    pusing it to others as a common file format is only beneficial to
    them. It doesn't do anything for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sony, etc.,
    except maybe as a means to merge software and gain their own sales due
    to the Adobe name.

    > It has significant advantages to many (not yet all) photographers.


    Like what exactly?

    The only supposed benefit is a common archiving format. But it's only
    a benefit if every software company and every user keeps using it. As
    soon as a software company feels it's a waste of time, boom, no more
    support and all your old DNG files are useless. Unless you keep your
    old software, but hey you can do that with ANY software that supports
    the camera RAW files.

    I just don't see it as a practical format, until everyone adopts it
    and maintains it.
     
    Bill, Nov 9, 2006
    #17
  18. On Nov 9, 5:10 am, "Bill" <> wrote:
    > "Barry Pearson" <> wrote in messagenews:...
    >
    > > On Nov 7, 8:06 pm, "Bill" <> wrote:
    > > [snip]
    > >> And I think DNG is just another excuse for Adobe to gain market
    > >> share - it offers little to end users since all current DSLRs have
    > >> RAW
    > >> file formats.

    >
    > > In what way does DNG gain market share for Adobe?

    >
    > It's an Adobe product, and people are like sheep when it comes to
    > brand loyalty. Adobe knows this, even though it's an open format, and
    > they no doubt get referrals and sales due to it.


    DNG isn't a product. It is a raw file format. It can be used without
    buying (or in some cases without using) any Adobe product.

    It is clear from other forums that many photographers use DNG with
    non-Adobe products. (About 140 products from about 130 companies
    support DNG in some way). Just as many photographers use TIFF with
    non-Adobe products - TIFF also being owned by Adobe, of course.

    > Adobe, like most large software companies that have somewhat of a
    > monopoly, doesn't do anything for free. Creating a new format and
    > pusing it to others as a common file format is only beneficial to
    > them. It doesn't do anything for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sony, etc.,
    > except maybe as a means to merge software and gain their own sales due
    > to the Adobe name.


    TIFF is also owned by Adobe. But the above statement wouldn't be true
    for TIFF. So why should it be true for DNG?

    If it wasn't useful to Pentax, why do Pentax themselves supply their
    own DNG Converter for all their dSLRs? Why do they offer it as an
    option on their latest camera? It is primarily because of the benefits
    gained by their users - Pentax users are probably among the most vocal
    advocates for DNG.

    A common raw file format is important for the future health of high-end
    digital photography, and DNG is the only contender. The concept of
    repeatedly reverse-engineering non-documented formats is poor
    engineering practice.

    > > It has significant advantages to many (not yet all) photographers.

    >
    > Like what exactly?


    Like those I documented at the link that you snipped:
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/dng/benefits.htm

    > The only supposed benefit is a common archiving format. But it's only
    > a benefit if every software company and every user keeps using it. As
    > soon as a software company feels it's a waste of time, boom, no more
    > support and all your old DNG files are useless. Unless you keep your
    > old software, but hey you can do that with ANY software that supports
    > the camera RAW files.


    The benefits are NOT limited to being a common archiving format, as
    that page shows. And it is obviously not true that this only a benefit
    if "every" company & user keeps using it! It is a benefit if enough do
    for future retrieval to be possible using products that fit with the
    workflows of the future. (Just as TIFF itself is valuable for archiving
    purposes, but that doesn't need "every" company & user to keep using
    it).

    > I just don't see it as a practical format, until everyone adopts it
    > and maintains it.


    It is already a practical format for many photographers. I have been
    using it for over 2 years for the benefits I get from it. Other forums
    have plenty of photographers using DNG.

    Whether particular photographers can get any benefit from DNG depends
    on their workflow and the tools they use. (The situation gradually
    improves over time). Not everyone can get immediate benefit yet, or
    enough benefit to counter any perceived disadvantages. So any
    photographer who sees no current personal benefit in using DNG, and
    assumes therefore that there are no benefits to any other
    photographers, is wrong!

    The arguments you present also rule out NEF, CR2, PEF, etc. Are you
    saying those are not practical formats because not everyone uses them
    or maintains them? It is important to judge any alternative to DNG
    using the same criteria used to judge DNG. Otherwise DNG might be
    rejected because of perceived issues that also apply (perhaps stronger)
    to the alternatives.

    --
    Barry Pearson
    http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
     
    Barry Pearson, Nov 9, 2006
    #18
  19. Fire

    Bill Guest

    "Barry Pearson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Whether particular photographers can get any benefit from DNG
    > depends
    > on their workflow and the tools they use. (The situation gradually
    > improves over time). Not everyone can get immediate benefit yet, or
    > enough benefit to counter any perceived disadvantages. So any
    > photographer who sees no current personal benefit in using DNG, and
    > assumes therefore that there are no benefits to any other
    > photographers, is wrong!


    I would like to see all camera companies use a common uncompressed RAW
    format that is readable in every digital image program, on all
    computers, regardless of hardware and software.

    But until that happens, I see no benefit to DNG. If Canon, Nikon, and
    every other camera company starts to support DNG natively, then I'll
    be more than happy to agree with you that it has benefits. Until then,
    I'm just not interested in it.
     
    Bill, Nov 9, 2006
    #19
  20. Fire

    mogh baba Guest

    On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:36:08 +1300, frederick <> wrote:

    >Bill wrote:
    >>
    >> To each their own, but the only thing I like about the K10D is the
    >> weather seals. It doesn't offer much else that the others don't offer in
    >> some form or another.
    >>

    >True - but it does this with a good quality pedigree, and at a price
    >that wipes the floor of the rest. The only things it seems to lack that
    >any of the others offer is fast frame rate and metal body - although it
    >has a metal internal chassis. Those features are only on the D200 and
    >30d - which cost about 50% more. It seems the best value 10mp DSLR by a
    >long way.
    >The only reservation I have about the K10D is the old rule that if
    >something seems too good to be true, then...


    I don't even have that reservation as long as it has Pentax badge on
    it.

    Mogh
     
    mogh baba, Nov 10, 2006
    #20
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