Which company releases the best DVDs [more of an experiment]....

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Anonymous Joe, Dec 28, 2003.

  1. Trying to figure this out, but only possessing 16 DVD discs, it was hard to
    determine.

    In terms of video quality, what I did is took each disc, ran DVD Shrink, and
    looked at how big the movie title's video is when "No Compression" is
    chosen, thereby not paying attention to extras or audio tracks, and then
    compared it to the movie's length, to detemine what the average bitrate is
    for the movie.

    Here are the top 5 highest bitrates, and the lowest 3....

    1) Fight Club - 139min - 7 audio tracks - 6069kbps avg Video Bitrate [20th
    Century Fox]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003W8NM/qid=1072645464//ref
    =sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl74/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
    2) Changing Lanes - 98min - 4 audio tracks - 5732kbps avg Video [Paramount]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005JL5F/qid=1072645579/sr=11-1
    /ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-2179671-3518214
    3) Planet of the Apes - 124min - 5 audio tracks - 5537kbps avg Video [20th
    Century Fox]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CXXV/qid=1072645631/sr=1
    -4/ref=sr_1_4/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    4) Road to Perdition - 117min - 6 audio tracks - 5289kbps avg Video
    ["Umvd/Dreamworks"]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007L4I9/ref=ed_oe_dvd/103-2
    179671-3518214?v=glance
    5) Rush Hour - 97min - 4 audio tracks - 4981kbps avg Video [New Line
    Studios]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0780625145/qid=1072645974/sr=1
    -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd

    Worst:
    1) Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery - 90min - 3 audio tracks -
    3941kbps avg Video [New Line]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304696221/qid=1072646036/sr=1
    -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    2) 15 Minutes - 121min - 3 audio tracks - 4007kbps avg Video [New Line]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005LDDD/qid=1072646093/sr=1
    -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    3) Rush Hour 2 - 91min - 4 audio tracks - 4564kbps avg Video [New Line]
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CY5Y/qid=1072646176/sr=1
    -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd

    The Road to Perdition DVD, however, has a 20th Century Fox logo on the back.

    So, just from this tiny sample of 16 DVDs, 3 of the top 5 bitrates are made
    by 20th Century Fox, and the worst 3 are all New Line Cinemas.

    So, can anybody else add some of their best & worst DVDs, retail of course.
    I used an Excel spreadsheet, putting the title, length (minutes), the size
    of the movie (in MB -- from DVDShrink's "No Compression" option for the
    movie title), and then another column called "Avg Video Rate"

    For the avg video rate, I used the formula: =(c2*8192)/(b2*60) [for the 2nd
    row], so that it takes the size in MB, multiplies by 8192, and then divides
    all of that by the length in seconds (thus the minutes x 60). So, I put
    minutes in B column, and MB in C column.....hope that everybody got that
    without all the extra explanation.

    Can anybody find a retail DVD with more than 6069kbps average video bitrate?
    How bout lower than 3941kbps? I had a concert DVD with more video rate than
    that movie, also had some rather large (1.3GB on disc 1) LPCM 2channel
    audio.
     
    Anonymous Joe, Dec 28, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Anonymous Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:hRHHb.502111$275.1412961@attbi_s53...
    > Trying to figure this out, but only possessing 16 DVD discs, it was hard

    to
    > determine.
    >
    > In terms of video quality, what I did is took each disc, ran DVD Shrink,

    and
    > looked at how big the movie title's video is when "No Compression" is
    > chosen, thereby not paying attention to extras or audio tracks, and then
    > compared it to the movie's length, to detemine what the average bitrate is
    > for the movie.
    >
    > Here are the top 5 highest bitrates, and the lowest 3....
    >
    > 1) Fight Club - 139min - 7 audio tracks - 6069kbps avg Video Bitrate

    [20th
    > Century Fox]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003W8NM/qid=1072645464//ref
    > =sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl74/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
    > 2) Changing Lanes - 98min - 4 audio tracks - 5732kbps avg Video

    [Paramount]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005JL5F/qid=1072645579/sr=11-1
    > /ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-2179671-3518214
    > 3) Planet of the Apes - 124min - 5 audio tracks - 5537kbps avg Video [20th
    > Century Fox]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CXXV/qid=1072645631/sr=1
    > -4/ref=sr_1_4/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    > 4) Road to Perdition - 117min - 6 audio tracks - 5289kbps avg Video
    > ["Umvd/Dreamworks"]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007L4I9/ref=ed_oe_dvd/103-2
    > 179671-3518214?v=glance
    > 5) Rush Hour - 97min - 4 audio tracks - 4981kbps avg Video [New Line
    > Studios]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0780625145/qid=1072645974/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    >
    > Worst:
    > 1) Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery - 90min - 3 audio tracks -
    > 3941kbps avg Video [New Line]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304696221/qid=1072646036/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    > 2) 15 Minutes - 121min - 3 audio tracks - 4007kbps avg Video [New Line]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005LDDD/qid=1072646093/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    > 3) Rush Hour 2 - 91min - 4 audio tracks - 4564kbps avg Video [New Line]
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CY5Y/qid=1072646176/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    >
    > The Road to Perdition DVD, however, has a 20th Century Fox logo on the

    back.
    >
    > So, just from this tiny sample of 16 DVDs, 3 of the top 5 bitrates are

    made
    > by 20th Century Fox, and the worst 3 are all New Line Cinemas.
    >
    > So, can anybody else add some of their best & worst DVDs, retail of

    course.
    > I used an Excel spreadsheet, putting the title, length (minutes), the size
    > of the movie (in MB -- from DVDShrink's "No Compression" option for the
    > movie title), and then another column called "Avg Video Rate"
    >
    > For the avg video rate, I used the formula: =(c2*8192)/(b2*60) [for the

    2nd
    > row], so that it takes the size in MB, multiplies by 8192, and then

    divides
    > all of that by the length in seconds (thus the minutes x 60). So, I put
    > minutes in B column, and MB in C column.....hope that everybody got that
    > without all the extra explanation.
    >
    > Can anybody find a retail DVD with more than 6069kbps average video

    bitrate?
    > How bout lower than 3941kbps? I had a concert DVD with more video rate

    than
    > that movie, also had some rather large (1.3GB on disc 1) LPCM 2channel
    > audio.


    I've found another one that beats Fight Club. Lilo & Stitch from Disney has
    an average video rate of 7901kbps. Its almost unfair to compare them, since
    Lilo is 85min & FC is 139min....but nonetheless, it has to be
    compared..........
     
    Anonymous Joe, Dec 29, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Anonymous Joe

    Scot Gardner Guest

    "Anonymous Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:hRHHb.502111$275.1412961@attbi_s53...
    <<Trying to figure this out, but only possessing 16 DVD discs, it was
    hard to determine.>>

    <<In terms of video quality, what I did is took each disc, ran DVD
    Shrink, and looked at how big the movie title's video is when "No
    Compression" is chosen, thereby not paying attention to extras or audio
    tracks, and then compared it to the movie's length, to detemine what the
    average bitrate is for the movie.>>

    <<Here are the top 5 highest bitrates, and the lowest 3....>>


    Based on bit rate, I would think that Columbia/Tri-Star's Superbit
    titles would be about as good DVD can get.

    Some of the Superbit titles, such as _5th Element_ and _Starship
    Troopers_ looed great as regular DVDs.

    One of the best Columbia/Tri-Star titles ever released is _La Bamba_,
    even though it has not been given Superbit treatment. (_La Bamba_ is
    also the most economical of these titles because it can be readily found
    for under $10.) The three titles that I have mentioned here (Superbit or
    otherwise) are all so good that they can be used as reference disks.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...s=superbit&store-name=dvd/103-9247970-5808605
     
    Scot Gardner, Dec 29, 2003
    #3
  4. Anonymous Joe

    anthony Guest

    What would be really interesting would be a comparison of bit-rate for
    the best 'conventional' transfers versus 'superbit' transfers.
    I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of companies are releasing DVDs at
    'superbit' transfer rates, without bothering to label them as such. I
    think most companies are prevented anyway by copyright from using the
    'superbit' tag.
     
    anthony, Dec 29, 2003
    #4
  5. Anonymous Joe

    Scot Gardner Guest

    "anthony" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    <<What would be really interesting would be a comparison of bit-rate for
    the best 'conventional' transfers versus 'superbit' transfers. I
    wouldn't be surprised if a lot of companies are releasing DVDs at
    'superbit' transfer rates, without bothering to label them as such. I
    think most companies are prevented anyway by copyright from using the
    'superbit' tag.>>


    You are correct in assuming that some non-Superbit DVD titles offer
    Superbit-quality at non_Superbit prices.

    Columbia/Tri-Star has been an industry leader in the production of
    outstanding DVDs, but their Superbit technology is an overrated gimmick.
    The so-called "Superbit" disks are nothing more than DVD done right. Of
    course, most Superbit disks have no room left over for extra features.
    So, from a marketing standpoint, there must be a cost to value trade
    off: Does the customer want the best possible sound and video OR a
    compromised feature presentation with extra features? Most customers
    would probably prefer a separate extras disk packaged with a high-bit
    rate movie as opposed to having to purchase two versions of a title in
    order to get both extras and a high-bit rate transfer.

    The only advantage to Superbit DVDs is that they are mostly titles which
    come from nearly-flawless masters which have been restored to the nth
    degree. Columbia/Tri-Star realized early on that there would be a
    tremendous advantage in having its entire movie catalog re-mastered in
    high definition. Not only would these movies be ready for high
    definition TV, they would make first-rate DVDs. As far back as 1998,
    Columbia/Tri-Star was releasing excellent, high-bit rate, anamorphic
    DVDs made from high definition masters. These DVDs had bit rates which
    consistently stayed above 5 Mbps, peaked at around 9 Mbps with an
    average bit rate fluctuating between 5-7 Mbps. During this era, other
    studios were releasing sloppy, over-enhanced, low-bit rate,
    non-anamorphic LaserDisc mastered DVDs.

    The elaborate contrivance of the "Revolutionary Superbit Encoding
    Process" was exposed when _Panic Room_ was originally released only in
    Superbit with a $27.96 list price. There was no companion non-Superbit
    version of _Panic Room_ and the only extra on the disk is a theatrical
    trailer. Therefore, there was no need to put the "Superbit" notation on
    the disk and box because this DVD was nothing more than a transfer whose
    bit rate was optimized to take up all of the available space on the two
    DVD layers. Non-Superbit DVDs from other studios have been doing
    excellent, high bit rate transfers over the last few years. Now, _Panic
    Room_ has a list price of $14.95 and it will probably end up in
    Wal-Mart's $5.88 bargain bin.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...11404/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/103-9247970-5808605

    As far as "standard" bit rate DVDs are concerned, the non-Superbit
    version of _Seabiscuit_ has the bit rate meter constantly peaking at
    10Mbps. So does the non-Superbit version of _The Ten Commandments_:

    What is the point of diminishing returns in regard to the amount of
    high-quality material that can successfully be placed on a single DVD?
    _Gone With The Wind_ (222 minutes) is presented by MGM/Warner on two
    single-layer sides of one DVD and the video quality of the over-enhanced
    image is terrible - particularly the color. On the other hand, _The Ten
    Commandments_ (220 minutes) is presented by Paramount on two dual-layer
    disks and its video quality ranks among the finest that I have ever
    seen.

    Does this mean that a truly high-quality DVD version of _Gone With The
    Wind_ will require the use of four DVD layers in order to achieve its
    true Technicolor brilliance? This does appear to be the case. _Gone With
    The Wind_, the Crown Jewel in the MGM catalog, has been done a great
    injustice by its washed out DVD premier. In contrast, I am quoting a
    review of _The Ten Commandments_ from the web since I could not have
    said this nearly as well myself:

    "The new DVD edition of 'The Ten Commandments' is nothing short of
    amazing. Never in my experience has this film looked this good. As with
    so many of the early Technicolor films, the production design was
    intended to make full use of the glorious Technicolor palette. No one
    can argue that video, even very good video, can match a decent
    Technicolor film print, but this DVD transfer doesn't miss by much.
    Colors are bright and intensely saturated yet retain very good stability
    with little or no smearing. There is no evidence of video noise, even in
    the brightest reds and oranges (check out the shot of the Hebrew slaves
    towing the Egyptian statue in the opening sequence...gorgeous). Even
    fine details within the brightest colors are still visible, something no
    other video version has been able to accomplish. The image is
    consistently sharp and detailed. For the most part, there is no apparent
    grain in the image except for an occasional optical effects shot. Black
    level and contrast are also excellent with good shadow detail."

    Copyright © 1998 Robert A. George.

    http://www.digitaleyes.net/Reviews/SearchReturn.cfm?catalog=155087DVD
     
    Scot Gardner, Dec 29, 2003
    #5
  6. Anonymous Joe

    Gil Guest

    Looking at bit rates and all are fine. Even though a disc could have a
    nice DLT and authoring. What you also must consider is what company
    MANUFACTURES a certain title. Even though a company may have a
    contract with a studio and their manufacturing perameters might be a
    high standard. If they need to get a "hot" title out fast they will
    sub contract (out source) it to another manufacturer who's quality
    "standards" might not be a stringent as the "parent" company. One way
    to see who made the disc is to look at the inner ID numbers in the
    center of the disc. Depending if the print is full coverage or not
    will decide if you can see them on the print side or information side.
    There is more I can say about the manufacturing process but I hope
    this helps and makes sense. And yes I do work for a major DVD
    manufacturer.

    "Anonymous Joe" <> wrote in message news:<hRHHb.502111$275.1412961@attbi_s53>...
    > Trying to figure this out, but only possessing 16 DVD discs, it was hard to
    > determine.
    >
    > In terms of video quality, what I did is took each disc, ran DVD Shrink, and
    > looked at how big the movie title's video is when "No Compression" is
    > chosen, thereby not paying attention to extras or audio tracks, and then
    > compared it to the movie's length, to detemine what the average bitrate is
    > for the movie.
    >
    > Here are the top 5 highest bitrates, and the lowest 3....
    >
    > 1) Fight Club - 139min - 7 audio tracks - 6069kbps avg Video Bitrate [20th
    > Century Fox]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003W8NM/qid=1072645464//ref
    > =sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl74/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
    > 2) Changing Lanes - 98min - 4 audio tracks - 5732kbps avg Video [Paramount]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005JL5F/qid=1072645579/sr=11-1
    > /ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-2179671-3518214
    > 3) Planet of the Apes - 124min - 5 audio tracks - 5537kbps avg Video [20th
    > Century Fox]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CXXV/qid=1072645631/sr=1
    > -4/ref=sr_1_4/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    > 4) Road to Perdition - 117min - 6 audio tracks - 5289kbps avg Video
    > ["Umvd/Dreamworks"]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007L4I9/ref=ed_oe_dvd/103-2
    > 179671-3518214?v=glance
    > 5) Rush Hour - 97min - 4 audio tracks - 4981kbps avg Video [New Line
    > Studios]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0780625145/qid=1072645974/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    >
    > Worst:
    > 1) Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery - 90min - 3 audio tracks -
    > 3941kbps avg Video [New Line]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304696221/qid=1072646036/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    > 2) 15 Minutes - 121min - 3 audio tracks - 4007kbps avg Video [New Line]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005LDDD/qid=1072646093/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    > 3) Rush Hour 2 - 91min - 4 audio tracks - 4564kbps avg Video [New Line]
    > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CY5Y/qid=1072646176/sr=1
    > -1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2179671-3518214?v=glance&s=dvd
    >
    > The Road to Perdition DVD, however, has a 20th Century Fox logo on the back.
    >
    > So, just from this tiny sample of 16 DVDs, 3 of the top 5 bitrates are made
    > by 20th Century Fox, and the worst 3 are all New Line Cinemas.
    >
    > So, can anybody else add some of their best & worst DVDs, retail of course.
    > I used an Excel spreadsheet, putting the title, length (minutes), the size
    > of the movie (in MB -- from DVDShrink's "No Compression" option for the
    > movie title), and then another column called "Avg Video Rate"
    >
    > For the avg video rate, I used the formula: =(c2*8192)/(b2*60) [for the 2nd
    > row], so that it takes the size in MB, multiplies by 8192, and then divides
    > all of that by the length in seconds (thus the minutes x 60). So, I put
    > minutes in B column, and MB in C column.....hope that everybody got that
    > without all the extra explanation.
    >
    > Can anybody find a retail DVD with more than 6069kbps average video bitrate?
    > How bout lower than 3941kbps? I had a concert DVD with more video rate than
    > that movie, also had some rather large (1.3GB on disc 1) LPCM 2channel
    > audio.
     
    Gil, Dec 30, 2003
    #6
    1. Advertising

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