Where do you want to go tomorrow?

Discussion in 'Wireless Networking' started by Pavel A., May 6, 2010.

  1. Pavel A.

    Pavel A. Guest

    Dear users of msnews.microsoft.com,

    There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server.

    See this for example:
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20004109-56.html

    Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the web-based
    MSDN forums?.
    To Google groups, maybe?

    Regards,
    -- pa
     
    Pavel A., May 6, 2010
    #1
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  2. > Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the web-based
    > MSDN forums?.


    Windows kernel people - to OSR's forums, surely.

    --
    Maxim S. Shatskih
    Windows DDK MVP

    http://www.storagecraft.com
     
    Maxim S. Shatskih, May 6, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Pavel A. wrote:

    > Dear users of msnews.microsoft.com,
    >
    > There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server.
    >
    > See this for example:
    > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20004109-56.html
    >
    > Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the
    > web-based MSDN forums?.
    > To Google groups, maybe?
    >
    > Regards,
    > -- pa



    Technically what Microsoft is stopping is the Microsoft.* newsgroups
    in lieu of new forums style messages which can also be exposed as
    "locally published" newsgroups.

    As "Forums Newsgroups," you can download the MS NNTP Bridge

    http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums

    that will allow you to continue to use your favorite desktop news
    reader to access the Microsoft Forums Newsgroups.

    It actually works pretty well. Not all the old newsgroup "names" are
    available in the MS forums. There is the kernel one:

    Microsoft.en-US.kernel

    I'm sure in time that other providers will use the MS NNTP Bridge with
    NNTP gating software to mirror the MS Forums on their own NNTP servers
    as newsgroups.

    Its leaves us to wonder what will happen to the old mirrors, i.e.
    Google Groups. That probably depends if Microsoft will allow or not
    their name sake and branding to continue to be used as newsgroup names
    run by 3rd party servers. Maybe they don't care, maybe they don't
    realize they will care once its highly abused more than it is now
    where there was filtering going on, but no longer. :)

    --
    HLS
     
    Hector Santos, May 7, 2010
    #3
  4. Pavel A.

    Lem Guest

    Hector Santos wrote:
    > Pavel A. wrote:
    >
    >> Dear users of msnews.microsoft.com,
    >>
    >> There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server.
    >>
    >> See this for example:
    >> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20004109-56.html
    >>
    >> Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the
    >> web-based MSDN forums?.
    >> To Google groups, maybe?
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> -- pa

    >
    >
    > Technically what Microsoft is stopping is the Microsoft.* newsgroups in
    > lieu of new forums style messages which can also be exposed as "locally
    > published" newsgroups.
    >
    > As "Forums Newsgroups," you can download the MS NNTP Bridge
    >
    > http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums
    >
    > that will allow you to continue to use your favorite desktop news reader
    > to access the Microsoft Forums Newsgroups.
    >
    > It actually works pretty well. Not all the old newsgroup "names" are
    > available in the MS forums. There is the kernel one:
    >
    > Microsoft.en-US.kernel
    >
    > I'm sure in time that other providers will use the MS NNTP Bridge with
    > NNTP gating software to mirror the MS Forums on their own NNTP servers
    > as newsgroups.
    >
    > Its leaves us to wonder what will happen to the old mirrors, i.e. Google
    > Groups. That probably depends if Microsoft will allow or not their name
    > sake and branding to continue to be used as newsgroup names run by 3rd
    > party servers. Maybe they don't care, maybe they don't realize they
    > will care once its highly abused more than it is now where there was
    > filtering going on, but no longer. :)
    >


    I wouldn't go so far as to say that the nntp bridge "works pretty well."
    At least on T'Bird 2.x, the headers and bodies occasionally become
    unsynced and the unread message indicator is unreliable.

    --
    Lem

    Apollo 11 - 40 years ago:
    http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/40th/index.html
     
    Lem, May 7, 2010
    #4
  5. Hi Pavel!

    > Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the
    > web-based MSDN forums?.


    Why not just stay here?
    You only need to use a different news-server than news.microsoft.com.
    But the group will still exist in the future. And the groups will still
    be peered to other news-servers.
    NNTP is a peer-to-peer system, so the down of news.microsoft.com will
    not matter.

    So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today.

    --
    Greetings
    Jochen

    My blog about Win32 and .NET
    http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/
     
    Jochen Kalmbach [MVP], May 7, 2010
    #5
  6. Pavel A.

    Stefan Kuhr Guest

    Hello everyone,

    On 5/7/2010 4:56 AM, Hector Santos wrote:
    > Pavel A. wrote:
    > <snip>
    > As "Forums Newsgroups," you can download the MS NNTP Bridge
    >
    > http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums
    >
    > that will allow you to continue to use your favorite desktop news reader
    > to access the Microsoft Forums Newsgroups.
    >
    > It actually works pretty well. Not all the old newsgroup "names" are
    > available in the MS forums. There is the kernel one:
    >


    Down anyone have more insight as to how the nntp bridge works with
    regards to authenticating the user? I wonder how it deals with my live
    ID user name and password and whether it is safe to use it with the same
    live ID credentials that I use to access my technet plus subscription or
    msdn subscriber downloads, or if this might reveal my credentials to
    wiretappers. All information it exposes in its UI is that it obviously
    accesses
    http://social.microsoft.com/ForumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc. Note
    that this is an http URL, not https.

    --
    Stefan
     
    Stefan Kuhr, May 7, 2010
    #6
  7. Jochen Kalmbach [MVP], May 7, 2010
    #7
  8. Pavel A.

    Barb Bowman Guest

    Forte Agent works just OK with the NNTP bridge but there is a problem with sync
    as well.

    On Fri, 07 May 2010 01:12:35 -0400, Lem <lemp40@unknownhost> wrote:

    >I wouldn't go so far as to say that the nntp bridge "works pretty well."
    >At least on T'Bird 2.x, the headers and bodies occasionally become
    >unsynced and the unread message indicator is unreliable.

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.digitalmediaphile.com
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, May 7, 2010
    #8
  9. Pavel A.

    Barb Bowman Guest

    Most US ISPs no longer offer NNTP servers and for the most part, the ones that
    are available are $ subscription based. The folks needing help will never FIND
    the free servers that are out there so we would be talking amongst ourselves.

    On Fri, 07 May 2010 08:55:25 +0200, "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]"
    <> wrote:

    >Why not just stay here?

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.digitalmediaphile.com
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, May 7, 2010
    #9
  10. Yes, I did noticed that, and AFAICT, the REST requests are all HTTP.

    Note: the correct url is:
    http://services.social.microsoft.com/forumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc

    This is a primitive 3rd party program. The author seems to be new at
    communications requirements. It uses the Live ID Framework Client
    SDK for this.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb404791.aspx

    And it comes with a C# example illustrating the authentication.

    For me, since my live id account is a junk account anyway, I don't
    worry about it - although they are beginning to force me to use it
    more now.

    --
    HLS

    Stefan Kuhr wrote:

    > Hello everyone,
    >
    > On 5/7/2010 4:56 AM, Hector Santos wrote:
    >> Pavel A. wrote:
    >> <snip>
    >> As "Forums Newsgroups," you can download the MS NNTP Bridge
    >>
    >> http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums
    >>
    >> that will allow you to continue to use your favorite desktop news reader
    >> to access the Microsoft Forums Newsgroups.
    >>
    >> It actually works pretty well. Not all the old newsgroup "names" are
    >> available in the MS forums. There is the kernel one:
    >>

    >
    > Down anyone have more insight as to how the nntp bridge works with
    > regards to authenticating the user? I wonder how it deals with my live
    > ID user name and password and whether it is safe to use it with the same
    > live ID credentials that I use to access my technet plus subscription or
    > msdn subscriber downloads, or if this might reveal my credentials to
    > wiretappers. All information it exposes in its UI is that it obviously
    > accesses
    > http://social.microsoft.com/ForumsServicePreview/ForumsService.svc. Note
    > that this is an http URL, not https.
    >
     
    Hector Santos, May 7, 2010
    #10
  11. Ok, "Works as an beta" :)

    Yes, I noticed that myself with TBIRD.

    --
    HLS

    Lem wrote:

    > Hector Santos wrote:
    >> Pavel A. wrote:
    >>
    >>> Dear users of msnews.microsoft.com,
    >>>
    >>> There are rumors that Microsoft plans to shut down this nntp server.
    >>>
    >>> See this for example:
    >>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20004109-56.html
    >>>
    >>> Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the
    >>> web-based MSDN forums?.
    >>> To Google groups, maybe?
    >>>
    >>> Regards,
    >>> -- pa

    >>
    >>
    >> Technically what Microsoft is stopping is the Microsoft.* newsgroups
    >> in lieu of new forums style messages which can also be exposed as
    >> "locally published" newsgroups.
    >>
    >> As "Forums Newsgroups," you can download the MS NNTP Bridge
    >>
    >> http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums
    >>
    >> that will allow you to continue to use your favorite desktop news
    >> reader to access the Microsoft Forums Newsgroups.
    >>
    >> It actually works pretty well. Not all the old newsgroup "names" are
    >> available in the MS forums. There is the kernel one:
    >>
    >> Microsoft.en-US.kernel
    >>
    >> I'm sure in time that other providers will use the MS NNTP Bridge with
    >> NNTP gating software to mirror the MS Forums on their own NNTP servers
    >> as newsgroups.
    >>
    >> Its leaves us to wonder what will happen to the old mirrors, i.e.
    >> Google Groups. That probably depends if Microsoft will allow or not
    >> their name sake and branding to continue to be used as newsgroup names
    >> run by 3rd party servers. Maybe they don't care, maybe they don't
    >> realize they will care once its highly abused more than it is now
    >> where there was filtering going on, but no longer. :)

    >
    > I wouldn't go so far as to say that the nntp bridge "works pretty well."
    > At least on T'Bird 2.x, the headers and bodies occasionally become
    > unsynced and the unread message indicator is unreliable.
     
    Hector Santos, May 7, 2010
    #11
  12. Jochen Kalmbach [MVP] wrote:

    > Hi Pavel!
    >
    >> Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the
    >> web-based MSDN forums?.

    >
    > Why not just stay here?
    > You only need to use a different news-server than news.microsoft.com.
    > But the group will still exist in the future. And the groups will still
    > be peered to other news-servers.



    But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source.

    > NNTP is a peer-to-peer system, so the down of news.microsoft.com will
    > not matter.
    >
    > So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today.


    And given the fact that the new systems were not merged anyway, the
    only real lost is the Microsoft NNTP server. That is a big lost as
    not everyone wants to go OUTSIDE the Microsoft server and other
    services will be lost too.

    So it will be a big change from that standpoint.

    A good solid bridge is all that is needed to use the new storage
    forums. This 3rd party bridge "works" but still has issues and is
    missing many basic features.

    --
    HLS
     
    Hector Santos, May 7, 2010
    #12
  13. Hi Hector!

    >> Why not just stay here?

    >
    > But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source.


    No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"...


    >> So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today.

    >
    > And given the fact that the new systems were not merged anyway, the only
    > real lost is the Microsoft NNTP server.


    Exactly!

    --
    Greetings
    Jochen

    My blog about Win32 and .NET
    http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/
     
    Jochen Kalmbach [MVP], May 7, 2010
    #13
  14. Pavel A.

    Pavel A. Guest

    "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Hi Pavel!
    >
    >> Any thoughts on where we can migrate from here - besides of the web-based
    >> MSDN forums?.

    >
    > Why not just stay here?
    > You only need to use a different news-server than news.microsoft.com.
    > But the group will still exist in the future. And the groups will still be
    > peered to other news-servers.
    > NNTP is a peer-to-peer system, so the down of news.microsoft.com will not
    > matter.
    >
    > So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today.
    >
    > --
    > Greetings
    > Jochen
    >
    > My blog about Win32 and .NET
    > http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/


    Thank you Jochen and Mr. Burn,

    I share concerns expressed by Hector Santos, that MS won't like Google
    or others carrying their newsgroups. The distributed and free Usenet has its
    merits,
    but these techical NGs are focused on Microsoft ecosystem, so naturally
    they better should stay with Microsoft.
    If we can continue to use newsreaders rather than web interface (with all
    due respect to AJAX....)
    and still conect to the central MS server, then this bridge indeed looks
    like a good solution for me.

    Thanks,
    -- pa
     
    Pavel A., May 7, 2010
    #14
  15. Pavel A.

    hector Guest

    "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi Hector!
    >
    >>> Why not just stay here?

    >>
    >> But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source.

    >
    > No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"...


    Jochen, we are vendors of NNTP software. In addition, we are providers of
    newsgroups for our technical support where we have other customers gating
    the technical support news mail into their servers and so on.

    Of course there is a MAIN source. It has to start from somewhere. Most
    PEERS are going to start with the MAIN source, others will use a mirror.
    The topology is more like a star network where you main have many hubs. But
    there is a main HUB source which is not going to be gating to other servers.

    In other words, if you post on the MAIN (Microsoft), they are not exporting
    it to others - others servers are importing it. And so on.

    That means once this main hub is lost, so are its end users. They will have
    to go to another hub, but these hubs will now lose the MAIN source of input.

    >>> So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today.

    >>
    >> And given the fact that the new systems were not merged anyway, the only
    >> real lost is the Microsoft NNTP server.

    >
    > Exactly!


    Plus the lost of the nodes (users) off the star hub.

    Do not take it for granted the that world of users take complete openness to
    user external or 3rd party servers as a given.

    Maybe I'm old school but there are MANY people who prefer to stick with the
    resources and solutions that Microsoft offers. There is a reason why they
    even bothered to post the announcement here, even though the storage was
    already separate from the new MS Forums storage and they already have began
    to create and migrate customers there.

    Quite frankly if I was more aware of the fact that the two storages were not
    one, I probably would of left this venue long ago. Buts that me, I'm old
    school - I don't use 3rd party solutions. Its either Microsoft or we write
    it.

    That said, the MS related information has grown rich outside of Microsoft
    so it does help many and for that reason, maybe, it won't change much.

    You would hope not, but you don't know for sure until the plug is actually
    pulled from the wall and people actually began to feel that something is no
    longer the same.

    That is why the NNTP Bridge is important for Microsoft. My only concern
    there is that it's a 3rd party tool and they might be underestimating how
    important it will be for to minimize the impact on people's long time usage
    of the Microsoft NNTP based newsgroups.
     
    hector, May 7, 2010
    #15
  16. Example:

    You are ASSUMING that if you use server XYZ, that it will propagate to
    all the HUBS when one one is pulled from the star network.


    N5 U1 U2
    | | /
    N4-N3-N2 -- N0 -- U3
    | | \
    N6 N1 Ui
    |
    N8 - N8 - N9 - N11 - N12
    |
    N10


    If you consider Microsoft is N0 with its thousands of Ui users, once
    N0is gone, N1 and N2 will lost its source.

    Now, yes, N2 and N1 will will have to get different hubs. But there
    is now a HUGE lost of N0 information. And lets not assume
    google.groups is pulling mail from another source other than N0. If
    google is N1, N2 and its star chain is LOST.

    hector wrote:

    >
    >
    > "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <> wrote in
    > message news:...
    >> Hi Hector!
    >>
    >>>> Why not just stay here?
    >>>
    >>> But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source.

    >>
    >> No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"...

    >
    > Jochen, we are vendors of NNTP software. In addition, we are providers
    > of newsgroups for our technical support where we have other customers
    > gating the technical support news mail into their servers and so on.
    >
    > Of course there is a MAIN source. It has to start from somewhere. Most
    > PEERS are going to start with the MAIN source, others will use a mirror.
    > The topology is more like a star network where you main have many hubs.
    > But there is a main HUB source which is not going to be gating to other
    > servers.
    >
    > In other words, if you post on the MAIN (Microsoft), they are not
    > exporting it to others - others servers are importing it. And so on.
    >
    > That means once this main hub is lost, so are its end users. They will
    > have to go to another hub, but these hubs will now lose the MAIN source
    > of input.
    >
    >>>> So just change your news-provider and everything will work as today.
    >>>
    >>> And given the fact that the new systems were not merged anyway, the
    >>> only real lost is the Microsoft NNTP server.

    >>
    >> Exactly!

    >
    > Plus the lost of the nodes (users) off the star hub.
    >
    > Do not take it for granted the that world of users take complete
    > openness to user external or 3rd party servers as a given.
    >
    > Maybe I'm old school but there are MANY people who prefer to stick with
    > the resources and solutions that Microsoft offers. There is a reason
    > why they even bothered to post the announcement here, even though the
    > storage was already separate from the new MS Forums storage and they
    > already have began to create and migrate customers there.
    >
    > Quite frankly if I was more aware of the fact that the two storages were
    > not one, I probably would of left this venue long ago. Buts that me,
    > I'm old school - I don't use 3rd party solutions. Its either Microsoft
    > or we write it.
    >
    > That said, the MS related information has grown rich outside of
    > Microsoft so it does help many and for that reason, maybe, it won't
    > change much.
    >
    > You would hope not, but you don't know for sure until the plug is
    > actually pulled from the wall and people actually began to feel that
    > something is no longer the same.
    >
    > That is why the NNTP Bridge is important for Microsoft. My only
    > concern there is that it's a 3rd party tool and they might be
    > underestimating how important it will be for to minimize the impact on
    > people's long time usage of the Microsoft NNTP based newsgroups.
    >
    >




    --
    HLS
     
    Hector Santos, May 7, 2010
    #16
  17. hector wrote:
    >
    >
    > "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <> wrote in
    > message news:...
    >> Hi Hector!
    >>
    >>>> Why not just stay here?
    >>>
    >>> But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source.

    >>
    >> No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"...

    >
    > Jochen, we are vendors of NNTP software.


    And that software is?

    John
     
    John John - MVP, May 7, 2010
    #17
  18. John John - MVP wrote:

    > hector wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> "Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" <> wrote in
    >> message news:...
    >>> Hi Hector!
    >>>
    >>>>> Why not just stay here?
    >>>>
    >>>> But there is a main HOP source. There still needs to a common source.
    >>>
    >>> No. NNTP is a peer-to-peer system... there is no "main"...

    >>
    >> Jochen, we are vendors of NNTP software.

    >
    > And that software is?



    Wildcat! Interactive Net Server (WINSERVER)

    http://www.santronics.com (sales)
    http://www.winserver.com (tech support)

    NNTP is just one small part of a totally integrated mail system.

    --
    HLS
     
    Hector Santos, May 7, 2010
    #18
  19. hector wrote:

    > Of course there is a MAIN source. It has to start from somewhere. Most
    > PEERS are going to start with the MAIN source, others will use a mirror.
    > The topology is more like a star network where you main have many hubs.
    > But there is a main HUB source which is not going to be gating to other
    > servers.


    That is certainly not my (and many others, I'm sure) understanding of
    the Usenet network. It may have been a star network in the very early
    days but it is now, and has for quite a while been described as a mesh
    network.

    John
     
    John John - MVP, May 7, 2010
    #19
  20. John John - MVP wrote:

    > hector wrote:
    >
    >> Of course there is a MAIN source. It has to start from somewhere.
    >> Most PEERS are going to start with the MAIN source, others will use a
    >> mirror. The topology is more like a star network where you main have
    >> many hubs. But there is a main HUB source which is not going to be
    >> gating to other servers.

    >
    > That is certainly not my (and many others, I'm sure) understanding of
    > the Usenet network. It may have been a star network in the very early
    > days but it is now, and has for quite a while been described as a mesh
    > network.



    Ok, first, the microsoft.public.* newsgroups are not usenet.

    Second, call it what it want, it is still the same thing. A mesh is
    just a form of a star network.

    No matter what you can wish to call it, it requires coordination and
    each node knowing who are their Uplinks and Downlinks which is what
    experts in the mail distribution market, who still run the show, know
    it as. Otherwise you will have redundancy (and hence duplicity).

    An uplink is who you send data too, and downlink is who you get data from.

    Now, in a mesh, redundancy may be part of the expectation with
    duplicity considered a lower overhead operation then it was in other
    days where hardware did did not allow for such low efficiency however
    it still needed to be checked.

    In a well coordinated network, to minimize duplicity, the nodes are
    usually going to go to a more centralize hub (lets call it MAIN). If
    the Nodes are going to also serve as HUBS for others, then they better
    have dupe checking because they don't KNOW if their own nodes are also
    using the MAIN hub.

    In general, old and current, every node has a list of remote host they
    will connect too to IMPORT and EXPORT information.

    If you wish to see the PATH a messge takes from any server, see the
    Path: header in a newsgroup article.

    Viewing your message from the Microsoft NNTP server, I see:

    Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl

    That means that it was posted at

    TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl

    but it was also imported to:

    TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl

    You can tell it was posted at TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl because of the
    message-ID: header:

    Message-ID: <>

    Now if I go to google groups and see your message from there, I see
    (all one line)

    Path: g2news1.google.com!
    news1.google.com!
    news.glorb.com!
    feeder.erje.net!
    weretis.net!
    feeder1.news.weretis.net!
    TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!
    TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl

    Starting from the bottom, the feeder1.news.weretis.net! server it
    pulled from Microsoft TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl! and it was gated thru a
    number of 5 additional servers.

    Well, #1 once the MS servers goes down, Google will not be able to
    pull from TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl! It will have find some thing else.

    #2, you won't have MS server to post, and if you found another, you
    don't know if Google will be pulling from it or that your Serer will
    be posting to GOOGLE.

    So no matter want you wish to call it, there is is a "backbone"
    concept where there is a main hub who is normally known as the OWNER
    of the newsgroup.

    In regards to USENET, this is different issue. This is in industry
    sponsored backbone. Not one company ones it. Its like a DNS.
    Everyone has it access to add and remove from it. As long as you have
    have primary uplink you can act as a primary server as well.

    Anyway, with usenet, long ago, we requested an alt.* group for usenet,
    It still exist:

    alt.bbs.wildcat

    We abandoned it long ago around 1997 when it became a high volume of
    spam for us and the anonymous dirt was not something we wanted to
    bother with our customers with when it was gated into our support
    avenues.

    The only reason we had no problem abandoning it was because it wasn't
    our NEWSGROUP. We were not the main hub for it.

    Thats not the case here with Microsoft.* newsgroup. These are not
    usenet groups. The main hub was Microsoft where others pulled from.

    Now, if someone were to migrate all the microsoft.public.* groups into
    usenet groups, then you and Jochen would be correct, it wouldn't
    matter if the Microsoft NNTP servers goes down because they would be
    just a node off the backbone, not the main hub for it.

    Hey, who knows, Maybe Google's answer to this Microsoft dropping of
    their NNTP server would be to announce their own services to be
    available. But they don't want people off the web for the same reason
    Microsoft wants people to use the web. :)

    --
    HLS
     
    Hector Santos, May 7, 2010
    #20
    1. Advertising

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