When will you people say enough is enough already? TSA going too far?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by richard, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. richard

    richard Guest

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

    Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.

    Because of one person sneaking on some home made contraption which failed,
    TSA now demands every passenger hands be swabbed for explosives.

    Excuse me? No. First of all, the test is not conclusive. If you didn't
    know, a person who is a commercial gardner who works with plants all day
    long will test positive. Why? Nitrates. This is what the test will look
    for.

    Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.

    Not even the police you come into contact every day have this authority to
    conduct a search of your person without a search warrant. I believe that
    somewhere in the US Constitution there is a little statement about the fact
    that people have the right to be secure in their person and personal
    belongings.

    What's next on line for the TSA? A full body cavity search?

    This is damn bullshit. The TSA needs to be stopped.
    richard, Feb 17, 2010
    #1
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  2. richard

    Jordon Guest

    Re: When will you people say enough is enough already? TSA goingtoo far?

    richard wrote:
    > http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn
    >
    > Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    > {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.
    >
    > Because of one person sneaking on some home made contraption which failed,
    > TSA now demands every passenger hands be swabbed for explosives.


    Not one. Two. Richard Reid and his shoe.

    > Excuse me? No. First of all, the test is not conclusive. If you didn't
    > know, a person who is a commercial gardner who works with plants all day
    > long will test positive. Why? Nitrates. This is what the test will look
    > for.
    >
    > Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.
    >
    > Not even the police you come into contact every day have this authority to
    > conduct a search of your person without a search warrant. I believe that
    > somewhere in the US Constitution there is a little statement about the fact
    > that people have the right to be secure in their person and personal
    > belongings.
    >
    > What's next on line for the TSA? A full body cavity search?
    >
    > This is damn bullshit. The TSA needs to be stopped.


    There's a difference between a police search and the search
    you go through at the security checkpoint at the airport...
    You don't have to go through the security checkpoint at the
    airport. You either consent to the search or you don't get
    on the airplane. Your choice. With the police, you have no
    choice.

    Not that you'd ever be allowed on an airplane, but what's
    the big deal if the TSA thinks this may, sometime, save
    300 lives?

    I've asked you before on other subjects but you've never
    answered... what's your solution?
    Jordon, Feb 17, 2010
    #2
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  3. richard

    Jordon Guest

    Re: When will you people say enough is enough already? TSA goingtoo far?

    Evan Platt wrote:

    > I can't wait to hear how richard takes what you said and makes it
    > sound like you said something totally different.


    Or... poof! He's gone.

    --
    Jordon
    Jordon, Feb 17, 2010
    #3
  4. richard

    richard Guest

    On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:06 -0800, Jordon wrote:

    > richard wrote:
    >> http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn
    >>
    >> Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    >> {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.
    >>
    >> Because of one person sneaking on some home made contraption which failed,
    >> TSA now demands every passenger hands be swabbed for explosives.

    >
    > Not one. Two. Richard Reid and his shoe.
    >
    >> Excuse me? No. First of all, the test is not conclusive. If you didn't
    >> know, a person who is a commercial gardner who works with plants all day
    >> long will test positive. Why? Nitrates. This is what the test will look
    >> for.
    >>
    >> Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.
    >>
    >> Not even the police you come into contact every day have this authority to
    >> conduct a search of your person without a search warrant. I believe that
    >> somewhere in the US Constitution there is a little statement about the fact
    >> that people have the right to be secure in their person and personal
    >> belongings.
    >>
    >> What's next on line for the TSA? A full body cavity search?
    >>
    >> This is damn bullshit. The TSA needs to be stopped.

    >
    > There's a difference between a police search and the search
    > you go through at the security checkpoint at the airport...
    > You don't have to go through the security checkpoint at the
    > airport. You either consent to the search or you don't get
    > on the airplane. Your choice. With the police, you have no
    > choice.
    >
    > Not that you'd ever be allowed on an airplane, but what's
    > the big deal if the TSA thinks this may, sometime, save
    > 300 lives?
    >
    > I've asked you before on other subjects but you've never
    > answered... what's your solution?


    What is the solution?
    I would begin by repealing the Patriot Act.
    Which basically stated that every American citizen is now a suspected
    terrorist.

    The TSA is a police force. So therefore they must abide by any and all
    federal laws and rulings. Just as any other police officer has to.
    Does a police officer on the street have the right to take any kind of
    samples from you for any reason? No they do not.

    In order to take a legal sample, the officer must have "probable cause".
    Boarding a plane is not probable cause.

    I just feel this latest swabbing is a violation of the right to be secure
    clause in the amendments.
    They should not be allowed to do this.
    richard, Feb 17, 2010
    #4
  5. richard

    richard Guest

    On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:16:30 -0800, Jordon wrote:

    > Evan Platt wrote:
    >
    >> I can't wait to hear how richard takes what you said and makes it
    >> sound like you said something totally different.

    >
    > Or... poof! He's gone.


    Oh gee. Like no instant response to YOU means I've violated your holy rule.
    Wahhhhh. I'm hurt. From laughing so hard.
    richard, Feb 17, 2010
    #5
  6. richard

    Jordon Guest

    Re: When will you people say enough is enough already? TSA goingtoo far?

    richard wrote:
    > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:06 -0800, Jordon wrote:
    >
    >> richard wrote:
    >>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn
    >>>
    >>> Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    >>> {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.
    >>>
    >>> Because of one person sneaking on some home made contraption which failed,
    >>> TSA now demands every passenger hands be swabbed for explosives.

    >>
    >> Not one. Two. Richard Reid and his shoe.
    >>
    >>> Excuse me? No. First of all, the test is not conclusive. If you didn't
    >>> know, a person who is a commercial gardner who works with plants all day
    >>> long will test positive. Why? Nitrates. This is what the test will look
    >>> for.
    >>>
    >>> Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.
    >>>
    >>> Not even the police you come into contact every day have this authority to
    >>> conduct a search of your person without a search warrant. I believe that
    >>> somewhere in the US Constitution there is a little statement about the fact
    >>> that people have the right to be secure in their person and personal
    >>> belongings.
    >>>
    >>> What's next on line for the TSA? A full body cavity search?
    >>>
    >>> This is damn bullshit. The TSA needs to be stopped.

    >>
    >> There's a difference between a police search and the search
    >> you go through at the security checkpoint at the airport...
    >> You don't have to go through the security checkpoint at the
    >> airport. You either consent to the search or you don't get
    >> on the airplane. Your choice. With the police, you have no
    >> choice.
    >>
    >> Not that you'd ever be allowed on an airplane, but what's
    >> the big deal if the TSA thinks this may, sometime, save
    >> 300 lives?
    >>
    >> I've asked you before on other subjects but you've never
    >> answered... what's your solution?

    >
    > What is the solution?
    > I would begin by repealing the Patriot Act.
    > Which basically stated that every American citizen is now a suspected
    > terrorist.


    And that prevents people from boarding airplanes with
    explosives... how?

    > The TSA is a police force. So therefore they must abide by any and all
    > federal laws and rulings. Just as any other police officer has to.
    > Does a police officer on the street have the right to take any kind of
    > samples from you for any reason? No they do not.


    The key word is consent.

    What you fail to comprehend (and I have no doubt will
    continue to fail to comprehend) is that if a police
    officer asks you if you'd consent to a search, and they
    have no search warrant, and you consent, it's legal.
    Same with security at the airport. You give your consent
    for a search but a search isn't mandatory, unless you
    want to get on an airplane. You have the option to not
    get on the airplane.

    > In order to take a legal sample, the officer must have "probable cause".
    > Boarding a plane is not probable cause.


    Since the search isn't mandatory the use of the words
    "probable cause" has no meaning.

    > I just feel this latest swabbing is a violation of the right to be secure
    > clause in the amendments.


    The Constitution doesn't have anything to do with it.
    You don't have to be searched. You also don't have to
    get on the airplane. Does any consumer have the right
    to be served at any place of business? (We reserve the
    right to refuse service to anyone.) You don't have a
    right to get on the plane, but if you want on, you have
    to consent to a search.

    You still haven't given me your suggestion on how to
    prevent someone from bringing explosives on board.
    Jordon, Feb 17, 2010
    #6
  7. richard

    tom Guest

    >> Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    >> {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.


    >> This is damn bullshit. The TSA needs to be stopped.


    "19 terrorists in 6 weeks have been able to command 300 million North
    Americans to do away with the entirety of their civil liberties that took
    700 years to advance from the Magna Carta onward. The terrorists have
    already won the political and ideological war with one terrorist act. It is
    mindboggling that we are that weak as a society": Rocco Galati
    tom, Feb 17, 2010
    #7
  8. richard

    Jordon Guest

    Re: When will you people say enough is enough already? TSA goingtoo far?

    richard wrote:
    > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:16:30 -0800, Jordon wrote:
    >
    >> Evan Platt wrote:
    >>
    >>> I can't wait to hear how richard takes what you said and makes it
    >>> sound like you said something totally different.

    >>
    >> Or... poof! He's gone.

    >
    > Oh gee. Like no instant response to YOU means I've violated your holy rule.
    > Wahhhhh. I'm hurt. From laughing so hard.


    What are you talking about? You have a reputation, here
    and in misc.transport.trucking, for disappearing when
    proven wrong. I've seen you do it countless times in
    both groups. At least a dozen times in the trucking
    group I proved you wrong and you didn't contribute
    another word to the thread. Why would I think this would
    be any different? If you're thinking about searching for
    them, look back a long time. Like around the beginning of
    2004 when the HOS rules changed.
    Jordon, Feb 17, 2010
    #8
  9. richard

    chuckcar Guest

    richard <> wrote in
    news::

    > http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?eref
    > =igoogle_cnn
    >
    > Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    > {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.
    >
    > Because of one person sneaking on some home made contraption which
    > failed, TSA now demands every passenger hands be swabbed for
    > explosives.
    >
    > Excuse me? No. First of all, the test is not conclusive. If you didn't
    > know, a person who is a commercial gardner who works with plants all
    > day long will test positive. Why? Nitrates. This is what the test will
    > look for.
    >
    > Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.
    >

    Good, anyone who's waiting for a plane and hasn't washed his hands since
    doing either is probably worth checking out anyways.

    > Not even the police you come into contact every day have this
    > authority to conduct a search of your person without a search warrant.
    > I believe that somewhere in the US Constitution there is a little
    > statement about the fact that people have the right to be secure in
    > their person and personal belongings.
    >

    No, that's not even true up here anymore. Besides, you're not talking about
    blood or other fluid tests here anyways. What you're talking about is less
    invasive than a fingerprint.

    To clarify what may seem imprecise: no law agency in North America needs
    your permission for any bodily fluid or excretion sample. A change I think
    needs to be reversed ASAFP.

    > What's next on line for the TSA? A full body cavity search?
    >

    That's also perfectly legal given just cause. *With* only people of the
    suspect's sex in the room at the time.



    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
    chuckcar, Feb 17, 2010
    #9
  10. richard

    richard Guest

    On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:35:01 -0600, tom wrote:

    >>> Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    >>> {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.

    >
    >>> This is damn bullshit. The TSA needs to be stopped.

    >
    > "19 terrorists in 6 weeks have been able to command 300 million North
    > Americans to do away with the entirety of their civil liberties that took
    > 700 years to advance from the Magna Carta onward. The terrorists have
    > already won the political and ideological war with one terrorist act. It is
    > mindboggling that we are that weak as a society": Rocco Galati


    The man don't know jack shit either.
    He forgets, conveniently, that he has the liberty of saying what he did.
    richard, Feb 17, 2010
    #10
  11. richard

    richard Guest

    On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:14:10 -0700, richard wrote:

    > http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn
    >
    > Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    > {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.
    >
    > Because of one person sneaking on some home made contraption which failed,
    > TSA now demands every passenger hands be swabbed for explosives.
    >
    > Excuse me? No. First of all, the test is not conclusive. If you didn't
    > know, a person who is a commercial gardner who works with plants all day
    > long will test positive. Why? Nitrates. This is what the test will look
    > for.
    >
    > Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.
    >
    > Not even the police you come into contact every day have this authority to
    > conduct a search of your person without a search warrant. I believe that
    > somewhere in the US Constitution there is a little statement about the fact
    > that people have the right to be secure in their person and personal
    > belongings.
    >
    > What's next on line for the TSA? A full body cavity search?
    >
    > This is damn bullshit. The TSA needs to be stopped.


    Here's something else that TSA needs to consider.
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=04cc0d996eed1cc0c673e97469b8ad4b

    Nitroglycerin is used in explosives. It is also used in medication. This
    report states that contact with the pills will leave traceable residue even
    after several handwashings.
    richard, Feb 17, 2010
    #11
  12. richard

    chuckcar Guest

    Manatee Memories <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:55:36 -0800, Evan Platt
    > <> wrote, by way of
    > <>, in
    > 24hoursupport.helpdesk -->::
    >
    >>On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:48:07 +0000 (UTC), chuckcar <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test
    >>>> positive.
    >>>>
    >>>Good, anyone who's waiting for a plane and hasn't washed his hands
    >>>since doing either is probably worth checking out anyways.

    >>
    >>Try that sometime - fire a gun, and wash your hands. A few times for
    >>good measure. You'll likely still test positive.

    >
    > There's also shoe-store (where I used to be) workers who, it seems,
    > may end-up with small traces of nitrates (not food preservative) on
    > their clothing. Happened to me once at a local ham-radio meeting - K9
    > cop came along with his charge, which promptly gave me a once/thrice
    > "nose over".
    >

    And you weren't locked up - even overnight were you? "checking out" is far
    from the same thing as arresting, but I wouldn't expect Mr. Room
    temperature IQ to realize anythng that complex.



    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
    chuckcar, Feb 17, 2010
    #12
  13. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    Re: When will you people say enough is enough already? TSA goingtoo far?

    On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:55:36 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:48:07 +0000 (UTC), chuckcar <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>> Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.
    >>>

    >>Good, anyone who's waiting for a plane and hasn't washed his hands since
    >>doing either is probably worth checking out anyways.

    >
    > Try that sometime - fire a gun, and wash your hands. A few times for
    > good measure. You'll likely still test positive.


    It'd be a laugh if they start testing passengers flying out of Vegas. The
    transfer from playing cards shows up positive for explosive residue.

    They'd have a field day.


    < http://mag.christis.org.uk/issues/05/victims.html >



    --
    "The whole purpose of setting up Guantanamo Bay is for torture. Why do
    this? Because you want to escape the rule of law.... Guantanamo and the
    military commissions are implements for breaking the law."
    Charles Swift, Lt. Cmdr.(Rtd.) U.S.N. JAG Corp,
    Aardvark, Feb 18, 2010
    #13
  14. richard

    Tony Guest

    Re: When will you people say enough is enough already? TSA going toofar?

    Well lets hope these immigrants who get stopped at the airports didn't wipe
    their arses with their hand or hands if they even wiped their arse at all!!

    chuckcar wrote:

    > richard <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?eref
    > > =igoogle_cnn
    > >
    > > Ok now this one is getting under my skin a bit to much. The damn TSA
    > > {airport security people} have gone a tad far now.
    > >
    > > Because of one person sneaking on some home made contraption which
    > > failed, TSA now demands every passenger hands be swabbed for
    > > explosives.
    > >
    > > Excuse me? No. First of all, the test is not conclusive. If you didn't
    > > know, a person who is a commercial gardner who works with plants all
    > > day long will test positive. Why? Nitrates. This is what the test will
    > > look for.
    > >
    > > Even a person who recently fired a pistol or rifle will test positive.
    > >

    > Good, anyone who's waiting for a plane and hasn't washed his hands since
    > doing either is probably worth checking out anyways.
    >
    > > Not even the police you come into contact every day have this
    > > authority to conduct a search of your person without a search warrant.
    > > I believe that somewhere in the US Constitution there is a little
    > > statement about the fact that people have the right to be secure in
    > > their person and personal belongings.
    > >

    > No, that's not even true up here anymore. Besides, you're not talking about
    > blood or other fluid tests here anyways. What you're talking about is less
    > invasive than a fingerprint.
    >
    > To clarify what may seem imprecise: no law agency in North America needs
    > your permission for any bodily fluid or excretion sample. A change I think
    > needs to be reversed ASAFP.
    >
    > > What's next on line for the TSA? A full body cavity search?
    > >

    > That's also perfectly legal given just cause. *With* only people of the
    > suspect's sex in the room at the time.
    >
    > --
    > (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )


    --
    The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

    Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

    Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
    manners

    Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs but got fired the first day on
    the job for potty mouth,

    Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

    El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

    Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

    Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
    the realm of understandability

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
    Tony, Feb 19, 2010
    #14
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