When labour gets in will they renege on their promises?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by news.xtra.co.nz, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    unbundle? Or renege?
    news.xtra.co.nz, Sep 20, 2005
    #1
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  2. news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    > Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    > unbundle? Or renege?


    they said that they wouldn't unbundle in their press release on the
    subject... so I'm guessing that they are just going to regulate... I'll
    believe it when I see it.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. T'was the Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:20:05 +1200 when I remembered "Dave -
    Dave.net.nz" <> saying something like this:

    >> Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    >> unbundle? Or renege?

    >
    >they said that they wouldn't unbundle in their press release on the
    >subject... so I'm guessing that they are just going to regulate... I'll
    >believe it when I see it.


    So people think Labour's promises are a bit like Don's smiles, in
    abundance at election time, but lacking otherwise?

    Well anyways, here's looking to a better broadband service. If it
    doesn't happen, I'll remember Labour three years from now.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 21, 2005
    #3
  4. Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >>>Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    >>>unbundle? Or renege?


    >>they said that they wouldn't unbundle in their press release on the
    >>subject... so I'm guessing that they are just going to regulate... I'll
    >>believe it when I see it.


    > So people think Labour's promises are a bit like Don's smiles, in
    > abundance at election time, but lacking otherwise?
    > Well anyways, here's looking to a better broadband service. If it
    > doesn't happen, I'll remember Labour three years from now.


    like many I know, I pretty much randomly chose a couple of boxes on the
    day, this year it was all far too dirty, and not very interesting...

    then again... is it ever interesting?


    Telecom and the local loop are damage, route around them.


    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 21, 2005
    #4
  5. news.xtra.co.nz

    Daniel Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >
    > Telecom and the local loop are damage, route around them.
    >
    >


    Curious.

    Is it possible to do this if your internet gateway is via Telecom? (or
    did you mean use a different ISP?)
    Daniel, Sep 21, 2005
    #5
  6. Daniel wrote:
    >> Telecom and the local loop are damage, route around them.


    > Curious.
    > Is it possible to do this if your internet gateway is via Telecom? (or
    > did you mean use a different ISP?)


    not possible unless you find another way out of the country...

    you can route around the LL, but you still need to connect to the rest
    of the country/world, I guess you could do wireless to telstra, and then
    go out overseas via them, but is telstra really any better than telecom?
    not from what I've read... they just don't do it here yet.

    it was a tongue in cheek comment, usual internet behaviour is to route
    around damage until it can be fixed... route diversity and all that
    jazz. but it doesn't work if you only have a few choices, all which suck.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 21, 2005
    #6
  7. T'was the Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:17:33 +1200 when I remembered "Dave -
    Dave.net.nz" <> saying something like this:

    >like many I know, I pretty much randomly chose a couple of boxes on the
    >day, this year it was all far too dirty, and not very interesting...
    >
    >then again... is it ever interesting?


    I picked Labour, which made it super super interesting for me to watch
    on election night, it's like a bet, and I tell ya, I thought I'd be
    waking up with National on my face, but much to my surprise, Labour
    gets the win (I hear on National Radio that Maori people gave Labour
    their party vote not because they like Labour, but more likely because
    they don't want National, and fair enough).
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 21, 2005
    #7
  8. On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:20:05 +1200, someone purporting to be Dave -
    Dave.net.nz didst scrawl:

    > news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    >> Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    >> unbundle? Or renege?

    >
    > they said that they wouldn't unbundle in their press release on the
    > subject... so I'm guessing that they are just going to regulate... I'll
    > believe it when I see it.


    At least they believe in regulation, and in interfering with "the market".
    National won't do a bloody thing, judging by Williamson's attitude.

    The worst Labour can do is leave things as they are. National could put
    Webb out of a job, by abolishing his position. It's not something I would
    discount from a crowd whose stance on the NZ telecommunications market is
    "as little regulation as possible".

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    Matthew Poole, Sep 21, 2005
    #8
  9. news.xtra.co.nz

    Kent Smith Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    >> Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    >> unbundle? Or renege?

    >
    > they said that they wouldn't unbundle in their press release on the
    > subject... so I'm guessing that they are just going to regulate...
    > I'll believe it when I see it.


    Only if they dont hit their broadband targets, which they will do by giving
    it away for free if they need to, just watch.


    -KENT
    Kent Smith, Sep 21, 2005
    #9
  10. Kent Smith wrote:
    >>>Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    >>>unbundle? Or renege?


    >>they said that they wouldn't unbundle in their press release on the
    >>subject... so I'm guessing that they are just going to regulate...
    >>I'll believe it when I see it.


    > Only if they dont hit their broadband targets, which they will do by giving
    > it away for free if they need to, just watch.


    From what I had read they had about 100k to go, and it has to be there
    by xmas... I think they'll be pushing to get that many to join Orcon and
    the like(they can't just let them join Xtra as that was one of the
    conditions)

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 21, 2005
    #10
  11. On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 23:26:52 +1200, someone purporting to be Kent Smith
    didst scrawl:

    > Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > Only if they dont hit their broadband targets, which they will do by giving
    > it away for free if they need to, just watch.
    >

    They can't make other ISPs give it away for free, and that is where they
    are falling down. If they haven't already passed the signups target, they
    will do in the next few weeks.
    Their failing is in having 1/3 of the signups be with other ISPs. Xtra
    have over 80% of them, and the only possible way that they could achieve
    the goal (since it's a moving target) is to stop taking more signups.
    Which, of course, they won't.

    I'd imagine that it would be against several laws to pay the competition
    to give away a product for free just to avoid Government regulation. It's
    probably fraud, if nothing else.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    Matthew Poole, Sep 21, 2005
    #11
  12. news.xtra.co.nz

    Kent Smith Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 23:26:52 +1200, someone purporting to be Kent
    > Smith didst scrawl:
    >
    >> Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    >> Only if they dont hit their broadband targets, which they will do by
    >> giving it away for free if they need to, just watch.
    >>

    > They can't make other ISPs give it away for free, and that is where
    > they are falling down. If they haven't already passed the signups
    > target, they will do in the next few weeks.
    > Their failing is in having 1/3 of the signups be with other ISPs. Xtra
    > have over 80% of them, and the only possible way that they could
    > achieve the goal (since it's a moving target) is to stop taking more
    > signups. Which, of course, they won't.
    >
    > I'd imagine that it would be against several laws to pay the
    > competition to give away a product for free just to avoid Government
    > regulation. It's probably fraud, if nothing else.


    Hmmm. You think?

    "Telecom is offering ISPs a cash incentive in an effort to meet its
    end-of-year broadband deadline."
    http://www.computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/0/D4835BBD43325169CC25707000164687?OpenDocument

    Remember 'Telecom' ends in 'con' and our government has no balls.


    -KENT
    Kent Smith, Sep 21, 2005
    #12
  13. Kent Smith wrote:
    > Remember 'Telecom' ends in 'con'


    errr, no it doesn't.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 21, 2005
    #13
  14. T'was the Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:15:30 +1200 when I remembered "Dave -
    Dave.net.nz" <> saying something like this:

    >> Remember 'Telecom' ends in 'con'

    >
    >errr, no it doesn't.


    Pedantics Dave, pedantics! Just close your eyes and believe:)
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 22, 2005
    #14
  15. Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >>>Remember 'Telecom' ends in 'con'

    >>errr, no it doesn't.


    > Pedantics Dave, pedantics! Just close your eyes and believe:)


    errr, ok then.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 22, 2005
    #15
  16. news.xtra.co.nz

    steve Guest

    news.xtra.co.nz wrote:

    > Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    > unbundle? Or renege?


    Depends on what other parties are prepared to support?

    National is firmly in Telecom's pocket....
    steve, Sep 22, 2005
    #16
  17. On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:51:17 +1200, someone purporting to be Kent Smith
    didst scrawl:

    > Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > "Telecom is offering ISPs a cash incentive in an effort to meet its
    > end-of-year broadband deadline."

    HAH! That's pathetic.
    One hopes that ISPs won't take them up heavily. It's a massive loss-maker
    to have UBS customers, and $158 up-front doesn't begin to compensate for
    that.
    Look at Orcon, who're losing quite significant sums of money each month.

    >
    > Remember 'Telecom' ends in 'con' and our government has no balls.
    >

    They've got more balls than National ever will; remember that. However
    limp-wristed Labour have been, National will be even more ineffectual.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    Matthew Poole, Sep 22, 2005
    #17
  18. Matthew Poole wrote:
    >>"Telecom is offering ISPs a cash incentive in an effort to meet its
    >>end-of-year broadband deadline."


    > HAH! That's pathetic.
    > One hopes that ISPs won't take them up heavily. It's a massive loss-maker
    > to have UBS customers, and $158 up-front doesn't begin to compensate for
    > that.
    > Look at Orcon, who're losing quite significant sums of money each month.


    I don't know why Telecom doesn't just give a heap of users broadband,
    and say, "we've paid for it until January 1st" that way they could get
    the numbers instantly... I nominate Dunedin for the first city to be
    given broadband :)

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 22, 2005
    #18
  19. news.xtra.co.nz

    Rob J Guest

    In article <dgskhk$1ive$>,
    says...

    > Remember 'Telecom' ends in 'con' and our government has no balls.


    It ends in 'com', actually.
    Rob J, Sep 23, 2005
    #19
  20. news.xtra.co.nz

    Philip Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:20:05 +1200, someone purporting to be Dave -
    > Dave.net.nz didst scrawl:
    >
    >
    >>news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    >>
    >>>Labour were promising to toughen up on telecom - wonder if they will
    >>>unbundle? Or renege?

    >>
    >>they said that they wouldn't unbundle in their press release on the
    >>subject... so I'm guessing that they are just going to regulate... I'll
    >>believe it when I see it.

    >
    >
    > At least they believe in regulation, and in interfering with "the market".
    > National won't do a bloody thing, judging by Williamson's attitude.


    Though that's not what he said in the online Internetnz webcast, where
    he said it was time to drop on Telecom and force them to behave more
    competitively.

    FWIW, I think that telcos, like energy utilities, are among the special
    group of businesses that will only perform satisfactorily for customers
    if they are vigorously regulated by the central government.

    It's no accident that worldwide, telcos work under quite strict
    regulatory frameworks, because if they don't, experience teaches that
    they will try to charge you extra for using their network while wearing
    your balls.

    Network provision is one of those things where the price is what the
    provider says it is. $70 in Australia, $2 400 in NZ. I say regulate
    them, so they can run a good business, but block them from ripping off
    the customers. Telecom NZ gouges because nobody stops it. It's time to
    stop .





    >
    > The worst Labour can do is leave things as they are. National could put
    > Webb out of a job, by abolishing his position. It's not something I would
    > discount from a crowd whose stance on the NZ telecommunications market is
    > "as little regulation as possible".
    >
    Philip, Sep 23, 2005
    #20
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