when 8 frames/sec doesn't seem like enough

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bill Hilton, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. Bill Hilton

    Bill Hilton Guest

    These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    faster camera :)

    http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm

    Also some good bird pics and the cheetah-on-the-roof was pretty
    exciting, especially when he slipped, but in general we struggled with
    the light, which was usually too overcast early and then too harsh
    later when the sun burned thru the clouds during the "rainy season".

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Apr 26, 2006
    #1
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  2. Bill Hilton

    [BnH] Guest

    Maybe you need a Canon product that is called .. XL2s :)

    =bob=

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    > worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    > faster camera :)
    [BnH], Apr 26, 2006
    #2
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  3. Bill Hilton wrote:
    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    > worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    > faster camera :)
    >
    > http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm
    >
    > Also some good bird pics and the cheetah-on-the-roof was pretty
    > exciting, especially when he slipped, but in general we struggled with
    > the light, which was usually too overcast early and then too harsh
    > later when the sun burned thru the clouds during the "rainy season".
    >


    OMG! Just reading the narrative along with the pix rose the hair on the
    back of my neck. Superb.

    Thanks for posting those.

    --
    john mcwilliams
    John McWilliams, Apr 26, 2006
    #3
  4. Bill Hilton

    js Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser.


    Bill, fire those off to Natural History Magazine.
    js, Apr 26, 2006
    #4
  5. Bill Hilton

    js Guest

    "[BnH]" <b18[at]ii[dot]net> wrote in message
    news:444f881e$0$30707$...
    > Maybe you need a Canon product that is called .. XL2s :)


    I use an XL-1 on the day-job and it definitely cannot capture anything like
    that with quality.
    js, Apr 26, 2006
    #5
  6. Bill Hilton

    AustinMN Guest

    Bill Hilton wrote:
    > We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled


    What this really deserved was a good Imax camera. These shots and the
    descriptions are excellent.

    Austin
    AustinMN, Apr 26, 2006
    #6
  7. Bill Hilton

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> writes:
    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    > worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    > faster camera :)
    >
    > http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm


    Wow, amazing shots, good job. My Olympus E-100RS (1.3 mp, 15 fps) is
    for sale if you want it, but it's not in the 1D Mk IIs class except
    for the frame rate ;-).

    Someone mentioned the XL-2S, which is regular DV25, but I wonder how
    something like an HDR-FX1 would compare.
    Paul Rubin, Apr 26, 2006
    #7
  8. AustinMN wrote:
    > Bill Hilton wrote:
    >> We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    >> Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    >> especially when the buffers filled

    >
    > What this really deserved was a good Imax camera. These shots and the
    > descriptions are excellent.
    >


    I suspect the weight - and cost - might be somewhat limiting.

    --
    John McWilliams
    John McWilliams, Apr 26, 2006
    #8
  9. On 26 Apr 2006 07:24:28 -0700, Bill Hilton <> wrote:
    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    > worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    > faster camera :)


    Wow. Wonderful shots.

    Here's a wild-speculation kludge for getting high frame-rates, seeing as
    you have two such cameras available. The cameras can be controlled via a
    computer. If (and this is a big if) the focus and shutter lags are
    sufficiently consistent, it should be possible to use a single computer
    to trigger two cameras in burst mode, with the frames exactly out of
    phase with each other, doubling the effective frame rate.

    There's a whole host of reasons why this wouldn't be a practical
    solution, but it's still amusing to contemplate.

    -dms
    Daniel Silevitch, Apr 26, 2006
    #9
  10. David J. Littleboy, Apr 26, 2006
    #10
  11. "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    SNIP
    > http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm


    Awesome record. Congrats on the capture sequence (2 camera's
    definitely helped). I hope the shots suffered little motion blur
    (which seems unlikely given the commotion), which would then justify
    publication in printed form (with ample reimbursement).

    If you'd need/like some compensation for motion blur (blur wouldn't
    surprise me), check out:
    <http://www.hamangia.freeserve.co.uk/index.html> .
    Its default processing is limited to <1024 pixel dimension images (if
    I recall correctly), but there are ways around that if needed and
    sufficient RAM memory is available.

    Bart
    Bart van der Wolf, Apr 27, 2006
    #11
  12. Bill Hilton

    Mark² Guest

    Bill Hilton wrote:
    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    > worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    > faster camera :)
    >
    > http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm
    >
    > Also some good bird pics and the cheetah-on-the-roof was pretty
    > exciting, especially when he slipped, but in general we struggled with
    > the light, which was usually too overcast early and then too harsh
    > later when the sun burned thru the clouds during the "rainy season".
    >
    > Bill Hilton


    Fantastic, Bill & Carolyn.

    This should be sent to Canon Marketing, and any number of
    magazines/publications...along with your narrative.

    -A perfect example of why its worth the $$ it takes to get 8fps.
    A mesmerizing series of photos.
    Personally I find this FAR more powerful than a video of the event.
    The stills here show the incredible intensity that would go by too quickly
    to understand and appreciate in any other form.

    Bravo!

    -Mark²
    Mark², Apr 27, 2006
    #12
  13. Bill Hilton

    Annika1980 Guest

    >Maybe you need a Canon product that is called .. XL2s :)

    Nah, he needs the XL H1. Or maybe two of them.
    Annika1980, Apr 27, 2006
    #13
  14. Bill Hilton

    Paul J Gans Guest

    Bill Hilton <> wrote:
    >These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    >just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    >kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    >Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    >especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    >worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    >faster camera :)


    >http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm


    Amazingly fantastis shots!

    ---- Paul J. Gans
    Paul J Gans, Apr 27, 2006
    #14
  15. Bill Hilton wrote:

    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    > worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    > faster camera :)
    >
    > http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm
    >
    > Also some good bird pics and the cheetah-on-the-roof was pretty
    > exciting, especially when he slipped, but in general we struggled with
    > the light, which was usually too overcast early and then too harsh
    > later when the sun burned thru the clouds during the "rainy season".
    >
    > Bill
    >

    Way cool Bill!

    I can't wait to go, and to think I would have gone on this trip
    if it weren't that meeting I had to attend!

    Looks like the flies were really bad, or was that just
    around the carcass?

    Roger
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Apr 27, 2006
    #15
  16. Bill Hilton

    Don Guest

    Hells bells Bill and Carolyn, they keep getting better and better. After
    viewing these I might hang up the camera and concentrate on drawing as I
    know I will not get to that standard. Still, its a hell of a lot of fun to
    try. Bring on the next lot.

    regards

    Don from Down Under
    "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > Bill Hilton wrote:
    >
    >> These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    >> just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    >> kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    >> Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    >> especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    >> worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    >> faster camera :)
    >>
    >> http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm
    >>
    >> Also some good bird pics and the cheetah-on-the-roof was pretty
    >> exciting, especially when he slipped, but in general we struggled with
    >> the light, which was usually too overcast early and then too harsh
    >> later when the sun burned thru the clouds during the "rainy season".
    >>
    >> Bill
    >>

    > Way cool Bill!
    >
    > I can't wait to go, and to think I would have gone on this trip
    > if it weren't that meeting I had to attend!
    >
    > Looks like the flies were really bad, or was that just
    > around the carcass?
    >
    > Roger
    Don, Apr 27, 2006
    #16
  17. Bill Hilton

    AustinMN Guest

    John McWilliams wrote:
    > AustinMN wrote:
    > > Bill Hilton wrote:
    > >> We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > >> Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > >> especially when the buffers filled

    > >
    > > What this really deserved was a good Imax camera. These shots and the
    > > descriptions are excellent.
    > >

    >
    > I suspect the weight - and cost - might be somewhat limiting.


    Not to mention - I remembered this the moment I hit post - that it
    would be out of film, pointed in another direction, or not set up yet
    when the action went down.

    Austin
    AustinMN, Apr 27, 2006
    #17
  18. Bill Hilton

    jean Guest

    Superb pictures, now honestly, how many pictures did you and your wife take
    on that trip?

    Jean

    "Bill Hilton" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news:...
    > These lions got in a tiff over a buffalo carcass and suddenly it was
    > just a blur of fur once the female swatted the dominate male in the
    > kisser. We shot in burst mode (8 frames/sec for 20 frames with two
    > Canon 1D Mark IIs) but even that wasn't enough to catch everything,
    > especially when the buffers filled ... here's what about 2 seconds
    > worth of outtakes looks like ... at times like this I wish I had a
    > faster camera :)
    >
    > http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm
    >
    > Also some good bird pics and the cheetah-on-the-roof was pretty
    > exciting, especially when he slipped, but in general we struggled with
    > the light, which was usually too overcast early and then too harsh
    > later when the sun burned thru the clouds during the "rainy season".
    >
    > Bill
    >
    jean, Apr 27, 2006
    #18
  19. Bill Hilton

    Bill Hilton Guest

    Thanks for everyone's comments ... I was not very happy with the light
    on this trip (we had clouds almost every morning so didn't get the
    'golden light' like last trip) and almost didn't post any pics except
    for viewing by family and people like Roger and Don who are talking
    about joining us next year, so it was gratifying to hear that people
    liked the lion shots ... be sure to check out the 'cheetah-on-the-roof'
    shots if you have time (you'll also see what I meant about the harsh
    light, even though it was an exciting moment).

    What I really wish I had was a 12-16 Mpixel body with 20 frames/sec
    frame rate and a 100 shot deep buffer :) We've had these Mark II's for
    almost two years and I think I only filled the buffer five times total
    (these lions were the only time I even filled it half way on this trip,
    and the cheetahs running down the wildebeest were the only time I
    filled the buffer in January) but each time I've filled it I missed a
    few shots ... actually I was thinking of Roger Clark's write-up on how
    the 4 GB cards slow down once they are mostly filled since I had a 4 GB
    card in and was at about the 3 GB mark and after I got my fast 20
    frames off I was limited to 1 frame every 2 seconds, which was
    absolutely killing me ... from that point on I kept the fastest 2 GB
    card I own in the camera (I could have probably gotten off another 8-10
    frames with it compared to shooting off the back end of the 4 GB card)
    but of course I never had another opportunity like this one.

    > Roger N. Clark writes ...
    >
    >Looks like the flies were really bad, or was that just
    >around the carcass?


    They were amazingly thick around the carcass but if you check the other
    lion page, the second lion posed on the kopje also has a lot of flies
    around her face and she's on a rock 25 ft up in a breeze, so there were
    just a lot of flies ... we stopped near the wildebeest herd and waited
    for about 10 minutes to try to get them to bunch around the jeep for a
    tightly packed shot and when we left we had a thousand files go with us
    so it was thick around the herds, but otherwise the normal flies didn't
    bother us too much.

    There were a lot of tsetse files in two places where we often stopped
    for birds and these guys have a vicious bite (they are almost as big as
    horseflies and very aggressive) ... I had as much DEET on as possible
    and they didn't bite there but I have to keep it off my palms or it
    damages the cameras and I got bit a couple of times at the edges of my
    palms. Also after really heavy rains on two nights we had incredible
    swarms of flying termites hatch ... one night they found a way to get
    into the room and we had to kill a couple hundred in there before
    finding the crack above the door where they were getting in and
    stuffing a towel in it. So there were a LOT of bugs ... in January we
    had many bugs at Lake Manyara but not so many in the Serengeti or
    Ngorongoro so if you go next year it won't be anything near as bad as
    what you see on this lion though.

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Apr 28, 2006
    #19
  20. Bill Hilton

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> writes:
    > What I really wish I had was a 12-16 Mpixel body with 20 frames/sec
    > frame rate and a 100 shot deep buffer :)


    How about 8 megapixels, 36 frames/sec, no buffer needed (records
    continuously to hard drive)?

    http://www.dalsa.com/dc/origin/origin.asp

    These cameras are currently not sold, but are rented out for $3000/day
    (plus accessories). However, the day is surely coming when this level
    of capability is available at 1DS mk II price level, if not lower.
    Paul Rubin, Apr 28, 2006
    #20
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