What's What?!

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Dingus, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. Dingus

    Dingus Guest

    Help/Info request.

    Hi,

    I recently purchased and installed a CD/DVD burner and installed it onto my
    PC which is running Win98.
    It came with NERO OEM packaged software, and all appeared to work OK. I
    copied a couple of data and music CD's all OK.
    Then I tried to copy a video DVD, (which was already a copy) and this is
    where I have come unstuck.

    First I found out that I needed to insert a DVD+R9 which after checking
    around was lead to believe that is a double sided disk.
    The disk from which I was attampting to make the copy is a DVD-R 4X.

    I rushed out and purchased a box of DVD+R 4X 4.7GB disks, but still no joy.
    NERO seems to hang instead of the previous message requesting a DVD+R9.

    Now I am totally confused, what is the difference between a DVD-R 4X and a
    DVD+R 4X ?

    Can anyone on the NG explain the different types of media, or point me to
    ehere I can get this info?

    Is NERO ant good, or is there a better proven software application that I
    can get to burn CD's/DVD's etc?

    Thanks for help.
    Dingus, Feb 18, 2005
    #1
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  2. Dingus

    Justin Guest

    Follow up to the post regarding users Re: What's What?!

    Dingus wrote on [Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:25:40 +1300]:
    > First I found out that I needed to insert a DVD+R9 which after checking
    > around was lead to believe that is a double sided disk.
    > The disk from which I was attampting to make the copy is a DVD-R 4X.
    >
    > I rushed out and purchased a box of DVD+R 4X 4.7GB disks, but still no joy.
    > NERO seems to hang instead of the previous message requesting a DVD+R9.
    >
    > Now I am totally confused, what is the difference between a DVD-R 4X and a
    > DVD+R 4X ?
    >
    > Can anyone on the NG explain the different types of media, or point me to
    > ehere I can get this info?
    >
    > Is NERO ant good, or is there a better proven software application that I
    > can get to burn CD's/DVD's etc?


    A perfect example of the laziness of computer users
    Justin, Feb 18, 2005
    #2
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  3. Dingus

    Large Farva Guest

    "Dingus" <> wrote in message
    news:XChRd.2276$...
    > Help/Info request.
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I recently purchased and installed a CD/DVD burner and installed it onto
    > my
    > PC which is running Win98.
    > It came with NERO OEM packaged software, and all appeared to work OK. I
    > copied a couple of data and music CD's all OK.
    > Then I tried to copy a video DVD, (which was already a copy) and this is
    > where I have come unstuck.


    First thing I would do is scrap Win98 and move up to WinXP. Win98 uses FAT32
    which cannot handle large files (such as DVD's). You need WinXP with NTFS.
    Large Farva, Feb 18, 2005
    #3
  4. Dingus

    Bill Turner Guest

    On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:25:46 GMT, "Large Farva" <> wrote:

    >First thing I would do is scrap Win98 and move up to WinXP. Win98 uses FAT32
    >which cannot handle large files (such as DVD's). You need WinXP with NTFS.

    ___________________________________________________________

    Don't be so sure. I use WinXP with FAT32 on everything and it works
    fine. NTFS is great for networked computers, but a home standalone will
    actually run faster using FAT32, plus you can use DOS-based diagnostic
    tools on it. With NTFS, you can't.

    --
    BT
    Bill Turner, Feb 18, 2005
    #4
  5. Dingus

    Dingus Guest

    Re: Follow up to the post regarding users Re: What's What?!

    "Justin" <> wrote in message
    news:2go.com...

    > A perfect example of the laziness of computer users


    What kind of stupid crap answer is this - if you have nothing constructive
    to add, then shut the **** up.
    Dingus, Feb 18, 2005
    #5
  6. "Bill Turner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:25:46 GMT, "Large Farva" <> wrote:
    >
    >>First thing I would do is scrap Win98 and move up to WinXP. Win98 uses
    >>FAT32
    >>which cannot handle large files (such as DVD's). You need WinXP with NTFS.

    > ___________________________________________________________
    >
    > Don't be so sure. I use WinXP with FAT32 on everything and it works
    > fine.


    It might "work fine" for everything you're using it for, but there are
    severe limitations. The most relevant to this newsgroup is the fact that
    the maximum file size is around 4GB. Good luck copying any DVDs, especially
    if you have to use DVD Shrink to produce a shrinked ISO to be burned with
    Nero or DVD Decrypter. I'm pretty sure there's workarounds, but why go
    through the hastle? NTFS is vastly superior for dealing with large files,
    and that's primarily what you have with DVD.

    > NTFS is great for networked computers, but a home standalone will
    > actually run faster using FAT32


    That might be true for smaller drives (maybe 20GB or less), or if all you
    have is a bunch of small files on your hard drive, but that statement isn't
    accurate for large capacity hard drives with a lot of big files. Also,
    defragmenting an NTFS drive is a much quicker process than doing so with
    Fat32..and if you let a 120GB FAT32 drive get fragmented, drive access will
    be *very* slow.

    This page explains it much more technically:
    http://www.spcug.org/reviews/bl0203.htm

    Basically, NTFS uses an intelligent binary search tree to index files rather
    than the more "linear" method of indexing that FAT32 makes use of.

    > plus you can use DOS-based diagnostic
    > tools on it. With NTFS, you can't.tools on it. With NTFS, you can't.


    Which ones are you referring to? You can use "Recovery Console" and other
    applications to access NTFS permissions from a command line prompt if that's
    what you mean. There are *several* bootable disk utilities that support
    reading from NTFS partitions out there. NTFS5 isn't all that new, and it
    certianly isn't lacking in diagnostic support.
    Patrick Michael, Feb 18, 2005
    #6
  7. "Large Farva" <> wrote in message
    news:_NnRd.213$...
    >
    > "Dingus" <> wrote in message
    > news:XChRd.2276$...
    >> Help/Info request.
    >>
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I recently purchased and installed a CD/DVD burner and installed it onto
    >> my
    >> PC which is running Win98.
    >> It came with NERO OEM packaged software, and all appeared to work OK. I
    >> copied a couple of data and music CD's all OK.
    >> Then I tried to copy a video DVD, (which was already a copy) and this is
    >> where I have come unstuck.

    >
    > First thing I would do is scrap Win98 and move up to WinXP. Win98 uses
    > FAT32 which cannot handle large files (such as DVD's). You need WinXP with
    > NTFS.


    I also wanted to add that if the guy's computer is a too underpowered for
    XP, then Windows 2000 would work just as well for this purpose...asuming
    there is driver support for everything.
    Patrick Michael, Feb 18, 2005
    #7
  8. Dingus

    Bill Turner Guest

    On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:41:49 -0600, "Patrick Michael"
    <> wrote:


    >It might "work fine" for everything you're using it for, but there are
    >severe limitations. The most relevant to this newsgroup is the fact that
    >the maximum file size is around 4GB. Good luck copying any DVDs, especially
    >if you have to use DVD Shrink to produce a shrinked ISO to be burned with
    >Nero or DVD Decrypter. I'm pretty sure there's workarounds, but why go
    >through the hastle? NTFS is vastly superior for dealing with large files,
    >and that's primarily what you have with DVD.


    Not being a FAT32 user, you apparently don't know that DVD Shrink breaks
    files into multiple ISOs of about 1 Gb, perfectly suited for FAT32
    drives, and DVD Decrypter burns them. Both programs process the files
    seamlessly with no user intervention needed.


    >> NTFS is great for networked computers, but a home standalone will
    >> actually run faster using FAT32

    >
    >That might be true for smaller drives (maybe 20GB or less), or if all you
    >have is a bunch of small files on your hard drive, but that statement isn't
    >accurate for large capacity hard drives with a lot of big files. Also,
    >defragmenting an NTFS drive is a much quicker process than doing so with
    >Fat32..and if you let a 120GB FAT32 drive get fragmented, drive access will
    >be *very* slow.


    Ok, I'll grant you that. I have a 30 Gb HD (6 GB used) and if I go to
    something really big I might change to NTFS. Right now, I don't see any
    advantage and at least two disadvantages: Speed, and the one discussed
    below.


    >> plus you can use DOS-based diagnostic
    >> tools on it. With NTFS, you can't.tools on it. With NTFS, you can't.

    >
    >Which ones are you referring to? You can use "Recovery Console" and other
    >applications to access NTFS permissions from a command line prompt if that's
    >what you mean. There are *several* bootable disk utilities that support
    >reading from NTFS partitions out there. NTFS5 isn't all that new, and it
    >certianly isn't lacking in diagnostic support.


    I know about the utilities that can 'read' NTFS, but none that I know of
    can write or delete NTFS files. With FAT32 there are many available
    which do it all. Fred Langa, author of the highly respected "Langa List"
    recommends FAT32 for standalone home computers and NTFS for networked
    ones. Nuff said.

    --
    BT
    Bill Turner, Feb 19, 2005
    #8
  9. "Bill Turner" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:41:49 -0600, "Patrick Michael"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>It might "work fine" for everything you're using it for, but there are
    >>severe limitations. The most relevant to this newsgroup is the fact that
    >>the maximum file size is around 4GB. Good luck copying any DVDs,
    >>especially
    >>if you have to use DVD Shrink to produce a shrinked ISO to be burned with
    >>Nero or DVD Decrypter. I'm pretty sure there's workarounds, but why go
    >>through the hastle? NTFS is vastly superior for dealing with large files,
    >>and that's primarily what you have with DVD.

    >
    > Not being a FAT32 user, you apparently don't know that DVD Shrink breaks
    > files into multiple ISOs of about 1 Gb, perfectly suited for FAT32
    > drives, and DVD Decrypter burns them. Both programs process the files
    > seamlessly with no user intervention needed.


    That's all well and good, but it's hardly efficient...and not every program
    is going to make that as seamless as DVD shrink. Furthermore, deleting a
    bunch of 1GB files after you're done is going to fragment the hell out of
    your drive, and defragging speed is not one of FAT32's strong points.


    >
    > I know about the utilities that can 'read' NTFS, but none that I know of
    > can write or delete NTFS files. With FAT32 there are many available
    > which do it all. Fred Langa, author of the highly respected "Langa List"
    > recommends FAT32 for standalone home computers and NTFS for networked
    > ones. Nuff said.


    That's a rather oversimplified recommendation, if that's really what he
    believes. There are many more advantages to NTFS than just network
    permissions/security concerns. Quite frankly, to say that "networked or
    not" should be the deciding factor is absurd. What does he mean by
    networked? Part of an NT network, part of a simple Windows workgroup, or
    simply hooked up to the internet (the vast majority of PCs)?

    There are security features (encryption and user file hiding) on NTFS that
    some would consider very valuable, and a computer does not have to be
    networked to take advantage of them. Perhaps Fred was referring to the
    older version of NTFS for Windows NT, which was almost exclusively used in
    corporate network environments?

    Quite frankly, I can't think of a legitmate reason to run FAT32 on any
    drives larger than maybe 40GB. I'll be fair and give you the benefit of the
    doubt that it's more efficient to run FAT32 on your 30GB. Even so, it's not
    as simple as 'nuff said." NTFS is simply better suited for handling the
    large file sizes that go along with DVDs...not only can it handle them, it
    also defragments faster and its indexing system is *much* faster for large
    files. You may not want to believe it, but FAT32 is not the most ideal file
    system for dealing with large files.
    Patrick Michael, Feb 19, 2005
    #9
  10. Dingus

    Alpha Guest

    Re: Follow up to the post regarding users Re: What's What?!

    "Dingus" <> wrote in message
    news:h9rRd.2360$...
    >
    > "Justin" <> wrote in message
    > news:2go.com...
    >
    >> A perfect example of the laziness of computer users

    >
    > What kind of stupid crap answer is this - if you have nothing constructive
    > to add, then shut the **** up.
    >
    >


    You are a fool to think you can treat DVD like CD. Sorry buddy, but you
    sound like an idiot on here.

    www.videohelp.com. And spend some weeks there.
    Alpha, Feb 19, 2005
    #10
  11. Dingus

    Alpha Guest

    "Patrick Michael" <> wrote in message
    news:phuRd.8224$zs.79@okepread04...
    >
    > "Large Farva" <> wrote in message
    > news:_NnRd.213$...
    >>
    >> "Dingus" <> wrote in message
    >> news:XChRd.2276$...
    >>> Help/Info request.
    >>>
    >>> Hi,
    >>>
    >>> I recently purchased and installed a CD/DVD burner and installed it onto
    >>> my
    >>> PC which is running Win98.
    >>> It came with NERO OEM packaged software, and all appeared to work OK. I
    >>> copied a couple of data and music CD's all OK.
    >>> Then I tried to copy a video DVD, (which was already a copy) and this is
    >>> where I have come unstuck.

    >>
    >> First thing I would do is scrap Win98 and move up to WinXP. Win98 uses
    >> FAT32 which cannot handle large files (such as DVD's). You need WinXP
    >> with NTFS.

    >
    > I also wanted to add that if the guy's computer is a too underpowered for
    > XP, then Windows 2000 would work just as well for this purpose...asuming
    > there is driver support for everything.
    >


    Please read his question carefully. He fully expected Nero to treat DVD
    just like CD and do the same functions.
    Alpha, Feb 19, 2005
    #11
  12. Dingus

    Bill Turner Guest

    On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:27:22 -0600, "Patrick Michael"
    <> wrote:

    >There are security features (encryption and user file hiding) on NTFS that
    >some would consider very valuable, and a computer does not have to be
    >networked to take advantage of them.


    The security features you mention are only available on XP Pro, not
    Home. Again, if you are using a standalone with Home, NTFS has no
    advantage I can see, except perhaps defragging speed. I'll take your
    word on that.


    >Perhaps Fred was referring to the
    >older version of NTFS for Windows NT, which was almost exclusively used in
    >corporate network environments?


    Fred's comment was made within the last year, so I don't know how old a
    version you're talking about.


    >Quite frankly, I can't think of a legitmate reason to run FAT32 on any
    >drives larger than maybe 40GB. I'll be fair and give you the benefit of the
    >doubt that it's more efficient to run FAT32 on your 30GB. Even so, it's not
    >as simple as 'nuff said." NTFS is simply better suited for handling the
    >large file sizes that go along with DVDs...


    I honestly don't see how it could be 'better suited' for handling DVD
    files. FAT32 does it perfectly as far as I can see. Perhaps if you were
    talking about truly enormous files there would be a difference, but at
    the 4.7 Gb level, FAT32 is perfectly adequate.


    >not only can it handle them, it
    >also defragments faster and its indexing system is *much* faster for large
    >files. You may not want to believe it, but FAT32 is not the most ideal file
    >system for dealing with large files.


    Well, I just might give NTFS a try (again) and see. When I first
    installed XP Home I used NTFS and was bothered by it's slowness and
    'really' annoyed by the file indexing, which I quickly turned off. I
    reinstalled Windows (you can't just convert the files) and I've been
    happy ever since. To each his own, I suppose. Thanks for the comments.

    --
    BT
    Bill Turner, Feb 19, 2005
    #12
  13. "Alpha" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Patrick Michael" <> wrote in message
    > news:phuRd.8224$zs.79@okepread04...
    >>
    >> "Large Farva" <> wrote in message
    >> news:_NnRd.213$...
    >>>
    >>> "Dingus" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:XChRd.2276$...
    >>>> Help/Info request.
    >>>>
    >>>> Hi,
    >>>>
    >>>> I recently purchased and installed a CD/DVD burner and installed it
    >>>> onto my
    >>>> PC which is running Win98.
    >>>> It came with NERO OEM packaged software, and all appeared to work OK. I
    >>>> copied a couple of data and music CD's all OK.
    >>>> Then I tried to copy a video DVD, (which was already a copy) and this
    >>>> is
    >>>> where I have come unstuck.
    >>>
    >>> First thing I would do is scrap Win98 and move up to WinXP. Win98 uses
    >>> FAT32 which cannot handle large files (such as DVD's). You need WinXP
    >>> with NTFS.

    >>
    >> I also wanted to add that if the guy's computer is a too underpowered for
    >> XP, then Windows 2000 would work just as well for this purpose...asuming
    >> there is driver support for everything.
    >>

    >
    > Please read his question carefully. He fully expected Nero to treat DVD
    > just like CD and do the same functions.


    And please read my post carefully. I was responding to a guy that suggested
    the OP scrap Windows98 (FAT32) in favor of Windows XP (NTFS).
    Patrick Michael, Feb 19, 2005
    #13
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