Whats better Fuji F610 or F450

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Damo, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. Damo

    Damo Guest

    Hi

    Im getting a new camera and thought about getting either of Fuji F450 or
    F610

    Whilst the F610 can do images of 12 million mega pixels the 450 has better
    optical zoom. The 450 is smaller than the 610 which is a little chunkier.
    One camera seems to have better at some things and worst at others. My mate
    has a F610 and i was really impressed with it. But would probably be equally
    impressed with a 450 as i have a Fuji finepix 40i at present.

    Any comments on the pros and cons of these two cameras would be appreciated
    or if anyone has any suggestions by other makers in the same price bracket.
    Im looking for a quite good spec cam, but has to be small enough to fit in
    the pocket easily. Which is why i like the F450

    Many thanks
     
    Damo, Feb 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. Damo

    don antoine Guest

    F810

    --
    A world without walls needs neither Windows nor Gates
    "Damo" <> a écrit dans le message de news:
    42233598$0$12856$...
    > Hi
    >
    > Im getting a new camera and thought about getting either of Fuji F450 or
    > F610
    >
    > Whilst the F610 can do images of 12 million mega pixels the 450 has better
    > optical zoom. The 450 is smaller than the 610 which is a little chunkier.
    > One camera seems to have better at some things and worst at others. My
    > mate
    > has a F610 and i was really impressed with it. But would probably be
    > equally
    > impressed with a 450 as i have a Fuji finepix 40i at present.
    >
    > Any comments on the pros and cons of these two cameras would be
    > appreciated
    > or if anyone has any suggestions by other makers in the same price
    > bracket.
    > Im looking for a quite good spec cam, but has to be small enough to fit in
    > the pocket easily. Which is why i like the F450
    >
    > Many thanks
    >
    >
     
    don antoine, Feb 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. Damo

    David Chien Guest

    I was in the same spot - had a f40i, moved up to a f401, but found that
    the f401 didn't do much better than the f40i, and wanted something that
    was very small and did a lot well.

    Compared the F610 and F450:
    F610
    + higher MP
    + more manual control
    + bigger, longer range flash

    - larger
    - vertical design
    - awkward buttons placement
    - not easily, if at all, operated one-handed
    - pop up flash design

    F450
    + lower MP
    + longer zoom (but f610 + digital zoom on 12mp can do the same)
    + shirt-pocketable, smaller than a post-it note
    + sliding power on/off design ala F401/F410/F420
    + completely operatable one-handed (preferably with strap around wrist)
    + higher quality LCD that's more viewable in daylight (thought still
    hard to see)

    - fewer manual controls
    - weaker flash
    - smaller battery

    ------

    Anyways, after looking at the two in person in Tokyo, it was basically:
    F610 is that small?!? but still so big?!? It looks big, but hold it and
    it's small. But try to fit it into your pocket or operate it
    one-handed, and it's like a bigger camera that begs for a larger pocket
    and two handed operation. Thumb is very squished trying to operate the
    buttons and the hand just wants to fall off the thing - hard to hold
    while operating one-handed, even with strap.

    F450 was like, wowa!! Now that's F40i-like Fast Startup! The lens pops
    out faster than a Canon ELPH S400/S500, faster than most other cameras,
    and pretty much only the Sony DSC-T1 series and DSC-P150 camera that
    I've tested in-store at the same time could turn on/off and be ready to
    take a picture this quickly. If you love the quick on/off response of
    the F40i, the F450 grabs you right away! The F610 is a lazier, but still
    quick, on/off - more like a F401/410 sped up a little.

    Picture-wise, the F450 does a decent job overall. Maybe the latest
    Canon ELPH S700 (S600 in other countries) 7MP will blow the F450 away
    in speed, image quality, and so forth, but certainly the latest line of
    5MP Canon/Sony/etc. do a similar job overall. The one point where it
    does start to go is low-light 400 ISO speed photos - grainier than any
    Canon ELPH at 400 ISO, so you'll have to post-process with Neat Image,
    Paint Shop Pro 9, or any other program that removes digital camera
    noise. F610 at 12MP is a touch better than the 6MP it is interpolated
    from, and the color contrast/saturation seems to be stronger than the
    F450 (SuperCCD vs. regular CCD sensor is the reason), but resolution
    isn't a 12MP by far. Expect 6MP or a touch more, and that's pretty
    close to the 5MP the F450 throws out from its regular CCD sensor.

    (But, if you print the F450 shots using the PIM mode on most printers,
    they look just fine. If you want more 'pop', put the F450 into Chrome
    mode and/or adjust the image in an image editor first. F450 tends to
    expose and try to keep the entire image brightness range within the
    range of the histrogram.)

    Here, regular CCD sensor of the F450 can and will blow out highlights
    (bright areas like near white) easier than the F610 - the dynamic range
    is lower than the F610 sensor. So a little care needs to be made in
    deciding what parts of a beach shot you'd want retained - deepest
    underneath pier shadows or brightest sunlight ocean areas. This is
    noticable coming from the f40i, which had the SuperCCD sensor that could
    take a bit more. Then again, few cameras really can handle the extreme
    contrast range shots as well.... Normal, daylight/indoor shots otherwise
    come out just fine and well exposed.

    Flash can be underpowered past a few feet, so you'll either have to take
    along a seperate slave flash, or get everyone closer than 10 feet.
    That's to be expected on most tiny digicams. F610 easily throws out
    enough light to go across a big room.

    Shutter speed response is quick, so is AF, but not as fast as the
    class-leader Sony DSC-T1 series - where it's basically instant. You may
    miss a shot or two if you use the F450 for quick grab shots; F610 can
    take several photos in series, but you must put the camera into this
    mode and begin photo taking before the action is missed.

    http://homepage3.nifty.com/digitalcamera/
    Go to the Fujifilm -> F450 section and find the two super-long
    comparison reviews of the F450 vs. many other 5 & higher MP digicams.
    You'll see tons of F450 shots you can compare vs. the other digicams,
    which I did as well.
    Use bablefish.altavista.com to translate.

    ---

    Basically, for me, once I saw the F610, it was simply too big vs. what I
    had and wanted, so it dropped off the list immediately.

    The F450 was compared against the Olympus Stylus, Leica FX7, Canon S500
    (today, there's the upcoming S700!), Sony T1 series, Sony DSC-P150,
    Casio EXILIMs, F420, and probably one or two I forgot.

    In the end, the F420 dropped out due to the short AAA battery life.
    The EXILIMs dropped out due to the fuzzy corners, ugly color rendition,
    and too-small buttons on the back, and the odd
    sometimes-takes-a-bit-longer-for-no-reason delay it had when writing an
    image to memory after a shot (meaning you can't take any pictures).

    Sony T1 series - didn't like the slide up/down cover, the softer images
    caused by the prism, the matte finish on the LCD, cramped button layout,
    no viewfinder, and even tinier, tiny flash. (However, it does have
    the fastest shutter response of the lot. Practically instant!)

    Canon S500 - slow startup/shutdown, slow AF, slow shutter response, and
    tiny 1.5" screen. S700 will probably be a very good alternative, but no
    reviews out yet because it hasn't been released yet - they do say they
    sped everything up, so it may become an extremely strong contender.

    Olympus Stylus Verve - almost everything is just fine, but
    low-resolution LCD display that's slower at updating vs. the other
    digicams, only 4MP, and the slower shutter response threw this off the
    list. The latest model (was it the Verve S) @ 5MP may correct some of
    the flaws. It is the ONLY model on this list that is WATERRESISTANT.

    The Leica FX7 was the only strong contender vs. the F450, but varying
    reviews about the battery life (far too short some say and <1 hour), and
    now-and-then working stabilization, and larger size tossed it off in
    the end (but then again, it sells better in Japan vs the F450).

    The F450 at $320 I got it at in Japan (now $280 on ebay) made it the
    winner for me.

    I can tell you more or send photos to look at if you want.
     
    David Chien, Mar 1, 2005
    #3
  4. Damo

    Stewy Guest

    In article <42233598$0$12856$>,
    "Damo" <> wrote:

    > Hi
    >
    > Im getting a new camera and thought about getting either of Fuji F450 or
    > F610
    >
    > Whilst the F610 can do images of 12 million mega pixels the 450 has better
    > optical zoom. The 450 is smaller than the 610 which is a little chunkier.
    > One camera seems to have better at some things and worst at others. My mate
    > has a F610 and i was really impressed with it. But would probably be equally
    > impressed with a 450 as i have a Fuji finepix 40i at present.
    >
    > Any comments on the pros and cons of these two cameras would be appreciated
    > or if anyone has any suggestions by other makers in the same price bracket.
    > Im looking for a quite good spec cam, but has to be small enough to fit in
    > the pocket easily. Which is why i like the F450
    >

    While I do have the F440 (same as the 450 except 4 megapixel) comparing
    this camera to the S7000 (which I also have) the quality sharpness is
    worse, no doubt to do with the lens size. I'd recommend favouring the
    610 as the pixel count is higher and the lens slightly larger. Both are
    very 'pocketable'.
     
    Stewy, Mar 1, 2005
    #4
  5. Damo

    David Chien Guest

    > While I do have the F440 (same as the 450 except 4 megapixel) comparing
    > this camera to the S7000 (which I also have) the quality sharpness is
    > worse, no doubt to do with the lens size. I'd recommend favouring the
    > 610 as the pixel count is higher and the lens slightly larger. Both are
    > very 'pocketable'.


    My F450 is definitely sharper than the F40i and F401 I had, but the
    problem with the 4x lens is that is has a bit of spherical abberation
    that can be noticable in some bright images. (Looks like the image is a
    touch 'soft', and has some light white 'haloing' all over.) Here, the
    F810, F610 and Leica FX7 are better controlled in this respect vs. the
    F450. In the same weight & class range, the FX7 has the better lens --
    it's consistantly sharp, low abberation, and crisp.

    My short list for a pocketable camera similar to the f40i today
    would be (no particular order):
    * Leica FX7
    * Canon S700 (S600)
    * F450
    * F420
    * T1/T11/T3/T33

    ---

    The F420 would be a choice to consider at the $150 or so it sells
    for today. While it's not that high in megapixels, it's sufficient for
    excellent 4x6" prints.

    ---

    The F450 is definitely lower in color saturation and contrast vs.
    the F810/F401. You almost always have to bump up contrast to get a
    print that looks superb, and I think they did this to maintain as much
    image detail for post-processing as possible. On the other hand, the
    F401 images usually came out looking pretty good, and needed minor
    tweaks to get them to print nice. This may vary depending on how you've
    setup your systems and printers.

    Anyways, the biggest drawback for me right now is the lack of a true
    640x480 30fps movie mode. Here, the other cameras on the short list
    above all have this, and I'd consider buying something else today just
    for this alone (saves me from having to carry a seperate camcorder).

    The Sony T1 is blowing out on sale right now because they're
    replacing it with the almost identical T33 in the USA (same sensor,
    slight different design and lens cover) - they've been going for <$300,
    so this would be a camera to strongly consider price-wise. But lens is
    a bit soft due to the prism design, so the full 5MP of resolution isn't
    quite there.

    The Canon S700 (s600) 7MP would be another - smaller screen than the
    Sony, but higher MP - but will be $450+.

    The Leica is the only one with image stabilization, so it's bigger
    than the Sony, but has that and a few more interesting features. Slower
    performance though since it doesn't use the prism lens of the Sony.

    F420 because it's cheap & works fine for 4x6" prints and has a
    faster 30fps movie mode - an older, date digicam however.

    F610? F810? F10? Hard to say until the F10 is released -- it may
    just be that the F10 has enough new improvements to the SuperCCD sensor
    to be worth buying vs. the older models at the same price range. F610
    vs. F810? I'd go with the f810 because it's horizontal layout is more
    comfortable to hold in the hands, and it has consistantly gotten solid
    reviews.

    Always a trade-off -- the Canon, if the lens & image quality holds
    up, looks to be the category killer. But until it's released and
    tested, who knows?

    =----

    alternatives? sony dsc-p150/p200 7MP digicams. While they're not
    perfect, they do provide quite a bit of punch for the price, and they do
    everything fast and decent. can't really pick on them much as they're
    solid choices, and light enough to be <6-8oz.

    =================

    Oh, and another big drawback -- F450 doesn't have a low-light AF
    beam to help the camera focus. You definitely will have some problems
    focusing at night and indoors in low-light with this camera like I have.
     
    David Chien, Mar 1, 2005
    #5
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