What router? I've got lots of questions.

Discussion in 'Cisco' started by Thomas Hallock, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. After pouring over pages of marketing slush on cisco's product pages and
    eBay, I'm still in the dark about what some of the most trivial things
    about cisco routers.

    Here's what I wanna do:

    +----------+ PPPoE +----------+ +--------+ 16 VLANS +------------+
    |ADSL modem| ----> |CISCO ????| -> |Cat 1924| =======> |24 computers|
    +----------+ +----------+ +--------+ +------------+

    I need something to do port-based VLAN routing between groups of the 24
    computers.
    The 24 computers mostly just use web and e-mail. The VLANs are there to
    separate traffic between multiple residences.

    What would be the most effective router for this network?

    Here's what I've narrowed my search down to so far:

    2501:
    * Is 10 MBPS enough for VLAN routing?
    * How would I hook up my DSL modem (RJ-45 port) to the serial port on
    the 2501?
    * To connect it to the cat switch, do I just plug the AUI on the 2501
    into the AUI on the back of the cat switch? Would this create a
    bottleneck?

    2611:
    * Same concerns over 10MBPS VLANs, but I also see VLANs advertised as
    one of its features.
    * Are WICs the only way to connect this router to a WAN, or can I plug
    my ADSL modem into one of the two LAN ports, and plug the other LAN port
    into my switch?
    * could I avoid the high cost of the ADSL WIC by using a WIC1-ENET and
    plugging my modem into that instead?

    1710:
    * seems like a cost-effective, simple solution, but cisco's
    recommendation to get a 1711 or 1712 (about 4X as much $ on eBay) on the
    1701s web page make me wonder what I'm missing.


    I know these are pretty lame questions, but I've looked every place I
    know of and couldn't find any straight answers.

    -Thomas
     
    Thomas Hallock, Sep 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. Thomas Hallock

    PES Guest

    "Thomas Hallock" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After pouring over pages of marketing slush on cisco's product pages and
    > eBay, I'm still in the dark about what some of the most trivial things
    > about cisco routers.
    >
    > Here's what I wanna do:
    >
    > +----------+ PPPoE +----------+ +--------+ 16 VLANS +------------+
    > |ADSL modem| ----> |CISCO ????| -> |Cat 1924| =======> |24 computers|
    > +----------+ +----------+ +--------+ +------------+
    >
    > I need something to do port-based VLAN routing between groups of the 24
    > computers.
    > The 24 computers mostly just use web and e-mail. The VLANs are there to
    > separate traffic between multiple residences.
    >
    > What would be the most effective router for this network?
    >
    > Here's what I've narrowed my search down to so far:
    >
    > 2501:
    > * Is 10 MBPS enough for VLAN routing?


    Only a few 10 mb interfaces support 802.1q.

    > * How would I hook up my DSL modem (RJ-45 port) to the serial port on
    > the 2501?


    Not likely possible.

    > * To connect it to the cat switch, do I just plug the AUI on the 2501
    > into the AUI on the back of the cat switch? Would this create a
    > bottleneck?


    2500's are pretty much a thing of the past.

    >
    > 2611:
    > * Same concerns over 10MBPS VLANs, but I also see VLANs advertised as
    > one of its features.


    Again, pretty much a thing of the past. There is now an XM series that is
    10/100 I think.

    > * Are WICs the only way to connect this router to a WAN, or can I plug
    > my ADSL modem into one of the two LAN ports, and plug the other LAN port
    > into my switch?


    You can use one lan port for lan and one for the DSL Modem.

    > * could I avoid the high cost of the ADSL WIC by using a WIC1-ENET and
    > plugging my modem into that instead?
    >


    Yes, but the interface will dequeue faster than your modem will handle it.
    In some cases, you may need to do some traffic shaping.

    > 1710:
    > * seems like a cost-effective, simple solution, but cisco's
    > recommendation to get a 1711 or 1712 (about 4X as much $ on eBay) on the
    > 1701s web page make me wonder what I'm missing.


    1710, 1711 or 1712 would probably be a good choice. I don't know what all
    bundles are available, but I like everything in the 1700 series that is a
    vpn/fw bundle.


    >
    > I know these are pretty lame questions, but I've looked every place I
    > know of and couldn't find any straight answers.
    >
    > -Thomas


    I would consider getting help from a cisco consultant. You may also want to
    save yourself the headache and get a switch that can do PVLAN (private
    vlan). Also if you are being an ISP to this group, consider what happens
    when end users want to do online gaming with one another.
     
    PES, Sep 4, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "PES" <NO*SPAMpestewartREMOVE**SUCKS> wrote in message
    news:41390151$...
    >
    > "Thomas Hallock" <> wrote in
    > message
    > news:...
    >> After pouring over pages of marketing slush on cisco's product pages and
    >> eBay, I'm still in the dark about what some of the most trivial things
    >> about cisco routers.
    >>
    >> Here's what I wanna do:
    >>
    >> +----------+ PPPoE +----------+ +--------+ 16 VLANS +------------+
    >> |ADSL modem| ----> |CISCO ????| -> |Cat 1924| =======> |24 computers|
    >> +----------+ +----------+ +--------+ +------------+
    >>
    >> I need something to do port-based VLAN routing between groups of the 24
    >> computers.
    >> The 24 computers mostly just use web and e-mail. The VLANs are there to
    >> separate traffic between multiple residences.
    >>
    >> What would be the most effective router for this network?
    >>
    >> Here's what I've narrowed my search down to so far:
    >>
    >> 2501:
    >> * Is 10 MBPS enough for VLAN routing?

    >
    > Only a few 10 mb interfaces support 802.1q.
    >
    >> * How would I hook up my DSL modem (RJ-45 port) to the serial port on
    >> the 2501?

    >
    > Not likely possible.
    >
    >> * To connect it to the cat switch, do I just plug the AUI on the 2501
    >> into the AUI on the back of the cat switch? Would this create a
    >> bottleneck?

    >
    > 2500's are pretty much a thing of the past.
    >
    >>
    >> 2611:
    >> * Same concerns over 10MBPS VLANs, but I also see VLANs advertised as
    >> one of its features.

    >
    > Again, pretty much a thing of the past. There is now an XM series that is
    > 10/100 I think.
    >
    >> * Are WICs the only way to connect this router to a WAN, or can I plug
    >> my ADSL modem into one of the two LAN ports, and plug the other LAN port
    >> into my switch?

    >
    > You can use one lan port for lan and one for the DSL Modem.
    >
    >> * could I avoid the high cost of the ADSL WIC by using a WIC1-ENET and
    >> plugging my modem into that instead?
    >>

    >
    > Yes, but the interface will dequeue faster than your modem will handle it.
    > In some cases, you may need to do some traffic shaping.
    >
    >> 1710:
    >> * seems like a cost-effective, simple solution, but cisco's
    >> recommendation to get a 1711 or 1712 (about 4X as much $ on eBay) on the
    >> 1701s web page make me wonder what I'm missing.

    >
    > 1710, 1711 or 1712 would probably be a good choice. I don't know what all
    > bundles are available, but I like everything in the 1700 series that is a
    > vpn/fw bundle.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> I know these are pretty lame questions, but I've looked every place I
    >> know of and couldn't find any straight answers.
    >>
    >> -Thomas

    >
    > I would consider getting help from a cisco consultant. You may also want
    > to save yourself the headache and get a switch that can do PVLAN (private
    > vlan). Also if you are being an ISP to this group, consider what happens
    > when end users want to do online gaming with one another.
    >


    I was thinking along the same lines - a layer 3 capable switch may be a
    better fit than trying to put a router behind your DSL modem. You might
    want to consider ditching your 1924 and replacing it with a Cat 3550. You
    should be able to get by with the SMI image as I believe that does static
    routes (and maybe RIP). You shouldn't have any need for the EMI image since
    I don't see any reason for routing protocols in the setup you've specified.
    The 3550 is a nice switch that is more than capable of routing your 16
    vlans, plus it has some QoS features if the need for that should arise.

    Cletus
     
    Cletus Van Damme, Sep 4, 2004
    #3
  4. In article <413944f0$0$68775$>,
    "Cletus Van Damme" <> wrote:

    > "PES" <NO*SPAMpestewartREMOVE**SUCKS> wrote in message
    > news:41390151$...
    > >
    > > "Thomas Hallock" <> wrote in
    > > message
    > > news:...
    > >> After pouring over pages of marketing slush on cisco's product pages and
    > >> eBay, I'm still in the dark about what some of the most trivial things
    > >> about cisco routers.
    > >>
    > >> Here's what I wanna do:
    > >>
    > >> +----------+ PPPoE +----------+ +--------+ 16 VLANS +------------+
    > >> |ADSL modem| ----> |CISCO ????| -> |Cat 1924| =======> |24 computers|
    > >> +----------+ +----------+ +--------+ +------------+
    > >>
    > >> I need something to do port-based VLAN routing between groups of the 24
    > >> computers.
    > >> The 24 computers mostly just use web and e-mail. The VLANs are there to
    > >> separate traffic between multiple residences.
    > >>
    > >> What would be the most effective router for this network?
    > >>
    > >> Here's what I've narrowed my search down to so far:
    > >>
    > >> 2501:
    > >> * Is 10 MBPS enough for VLAN routing?

    > >
    > > Only a few 10 mb interfaces support 802.1q.
    > >
    > >> * How would I hook up my DSL modem (RJ-45 port) to the serial port on
    > >> the 2501?

    > >
    > > Not likely possible.
    > >
    > >> * To connect it to the cat switch, do I just plug the AUI on the 2501
    > >> into the AUI on the back of the cat switch? Would this create a
    > >> bottleneck?

    > >
    > > 2500's are pretty much a thing of the past.
    > >
    > >>
    > >> 2611:
    > >> * Same concerns over 10MBPS VLANs, but I also see VLANs advertised as
    > >> one of its features.

    > >
    > > Again, pretty much a thing of the past. There is now an XM series that is
    > > 10/100 I think.
    > >
    > >> * Are WICs the only way to connect this router to a WAN, or can I plug
    > >> my ADSL modem into one of the two LAN ports, and plug the other LAN port
    > >> into my switch?

    > >
    > > You can use one lan port for lan and one for the DSL Modem.
    > >
    > >> * could I avoid the high cost of the ADSL WIC by using a WIC1-ENET and
    > >> plugging my modem into that instead?
    > >>

    > >
    > > Yes, but the interface will dequeue faster than your modem will handle it.
    > > In some cases, you may need to do some traffic shaping.
    > >
    > >> 1710:
    > >> * seems like a cost-effective, simple solution, but cisco's
    > >> recommendation to get a 1711 or 1712 (about 4X as much $ on eBay) on the
    > >> 1701s web page make me wonder what I'm missing.

    > >
    > > 1710, 1711 or 1712 would probably be a good choice. I don't know what all
    > > bundles are available, but I like everything in the 1700 series that is a
    > > vpn/fw bundle.
    > >
    > >
    > >>
    > >> I know these are pretty lame questions, but I've looked every place I
    > >> know of and couldn't find any straight answers.
    > >>
    > >> -Thomas

    > >
    > > I would consider getting help from a cisco consultant. You may also want
    > > to save yourself the headache and get a switch that can do PVLAN (private
    > > vlan). Also if you are being an ISP to this group, consider what happens
    > > when end users want to do online gaming with one another.
    > >

    >
    > I was thinking along the same lines - a layer 3 capable switch may be a
    > better fit than trying to put a router behind your DSL modem. You might
    > want to consider ditching your 1924 and replacing it with a Cat 3550. You
    > should be able to get by with the SMI image as I believe that does static
    > routes (and maybe RIP). You shouldn't have any need for the EMI image since
    > I don't see any reason for routing protocols in the setup you've specified.
    > The 3550 is a nice switch that is more than capable of routing your 16
    > vlans, plus it has some QoS features if the need for that should arise.
    >
    > Cletus


    Thanks for the tip!
    I forgot to specify I'm doing NAT to dish IP addresses to the computers
    so they don't have to connect open PPPoE. Wouldn't I need a router to
    handle this?

    -Thomas
     
    Thomas Hallock, Sep 4, 2004
    #4
  5. If your DSL modem won't do NAT, then yes. However, what's getting the
    public IP address for your DSL connection? Is it on the DSL modem itself or
    is it on something behind the modem? If it's on the modem, then the modem
    probably does NAT.

    Cletus

    "Thomas Hallock" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <413944f0$0$68775$>,
    > "Cletus Van Damme" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "PES" <NO*SPAMpestewartREMOVE**SUCKS> wrote in
    >> message
    >> news:41390151$...
    >> >
    >> > "Thomas Hallock" <> wrote in
    >> > message
    >> > news:...
    >> >> After pouring over pages of marketing slush on cisco's product pages
    >> >> and
    >> >> eBay, I'm still in the dark about what some of the most trivial things
    >> >> about cisco routers.
    >> >>
    >> >> Here's what I wanna do:
    >> >>
    >> >> +----------+ PPPoE +----------+ +--------+ 16 VLANS +------------+
    >> >> |ADSL modem| ----> |CISCO ????| -> |Cat 1924| =======> |24 computers|
    >> >> +----------+ +----------+ +--------+ +------------+
    >> >>
    >> >> I need something to do port-based VLAN routing between groups of the
    >> >> 24
    >> >> computers.
    >> >> The 24 computers mostly just use web and e-mail. The VLANs are there
    >> >> to
    >> >> separate traffic between multiple residences.
    >> >>
    >> >> What would be the most effective router for this network?
    >> >>
    >> >> Here's what I've narrowed my search down to so far:
    >> >>
    >> >> 2501:
    >> >> * Is 10 MBPS enough for VLAN routing?
    >> >
    >> > Only a few 10 mb interfaces support 802.1q.
    >> >
    >> >> * How would I hook up my DSL modem (RJ-45 port) to the serial port on
    >> >> the 2501?
    >> >
    >> > Not likely possible.
    >> >
    >> >> * To connect it to the cat switch, do I just plug the AUI on the 2501
    >> >> into the AUI on the back of the cat switch? Would this create a
    >> >> bottleneck?
    >> >
    >> > 2500's are pretty much a thing of the past.
    >> >
    >> >>
    >> >> 2611:
    >> >> * Same concerns over 10MBPS VLANs, but I also see VLANs advertised as
    >> >> one of its features.
    >> >
    >> > Again, pretty much a thing of the past. There is now an XM series that
    >> > is
    >> > 10/100 I think.
    >> >
    >> >> * Are WICs the only way to connect this router to a WAN, or can I plug
    >> >> my ADSL modem into one of the two LAN ports, and plug the other LAN
    >> >> port
    >> >> into my switch?
    >> >
    >> > You can use one lan port for lan and one for the DSL Modem.
    >> >
    >> >> * could I avoid the high cost of the ADSL WIC by using a WIC1-ENET and
    >> >> plugging my modem into that instead?
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> > Yes, but the interface will dequeue faster than your modem will handle
    >> > it.
    >> > In some cases, you may need to do some traffic shaping.
    >> >
    >> >> 1710:
    >> >> * seems like a cost-effective, simple solution, but cisco's
    >> >> recommendation to get a 1711 or 1712 (about 4X as much $ on eBay) on
    >> >> the
    >> >> 1701s web page make me wonder what I'm missing.
    >> >
    >> > 1710, 1711 or 1712 would probably be a good choice. I don't know what
    >> > all
    >> > bundles are available, but I like everything in the 1700 series that is
    >> > a
    >> > vpn/fw bundle.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>
    >> >> I know these are pretty lame questions, but I've looked every place I
    >> >> know of and couldn't find any straight answers.
    >> >>
    >> >> -Thomas
    >> >
    >> > I would consider getting help from a cisco consultant. You may also
    >> > want
    >> > to save yourself the headache and get a switch that can do PVLAN
    >> > (private
    >> > vlan). Also if you are being an ISP to this group, consider what
    >> > happens
    >> > when end users want to do online gaming with one another.
    >> >

    >>
    >> I was thinking along the same lines - a layer 3 capable switch may be a
    >> better fit than trying to put a router behind your DSL modem. You might
    >> want to consider ditching your 1924 and replacing it with a Cat 3550. You
    >> should be able to get by with the SMI image as I believe that does static
    >> routes (and maybe RIP). You shouldn't have any need for the EMI image
    >> since
    >> I don't see any reason for routing protocols in the setup you've
    >> specified.
    >> The 3550 is a nice switch that is more than capable of routing your 16
    >> vlans, plus it has some QoS features if the need for that should arise.
    >>
    >> Cletus

    >
    > Thanks for the tip!
    > I forgot to specify I'm doing NAT to dish IP addresses to the computers
    > so they don't have to connect open PPPoE. Wouldn't I need a router to
    > handle this?
    >
    > -Thomas
     
    Cletus Van Damme, Sep 4, 2004
    #5
  6. Thomas Hallock

    PES Guest

    "Thomas Hallock" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <413944f0$0$68775$>,
    > "Cletus Van Damme" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "PES" <NO*SPAMpestewartREMOVE**SUCKS> wrote in
    >> message
    >> news:41390151$...
    >> >
    >> > "Thomas Hallock" <> wrote in
    >> > message
    >> > news:...
    >> >> After pouring over pages of marketing slush on cisco's product pages
    >> >> and
    >> >> eBay, I'm still in the dark about what some of the most trivial things
    >> >> about cisco routers.
    >> >>
    >> >> Here's what I wanna do:
    >> >>
    >> >> +----------+ PPPoE +----------+ +--------+ 16 VLANS +------------+
    >> >> |ADSL modem| ----> |CISCO ????| -> |Cat 1924| =======> |24 computers|
    >> >> +----------+ +----------+ +--------+ +------------+
    >> >>
    >> >> I need something to do port-based VLAN routing between groups of the
    >> >> 24
    >> >> computers.
    >> >> The 24 computers mostly just use web and e-mail. The VLANs are there
    >> >> to
    >> >> separate traffic between multiple residences.
    >> >>
    >> >> What would be the most effective router for this network?
    >> >>
    >> >> Here's what I've narrowed my search down to so far:
    >> >>
    >> >> 2501:
    >> >> * Is 10 MBPS enough for VLAN routing?
    >> >
    >> > Only a few 10 mb interfaces support 802.1q.
    >> >
    >> >> * How would I hook up my DSL modem (RJ-45 port) to the serial port on
    >> >> the 2501?
    >> >
    >> > Not likely possible.
    >> >
    >> >> * To connect it to the cat switch, do I just plug the AUI on the 2501
    >> >> into the AUI on the back of the cat switch? Would this create a
    >> >> bottleneck?
    >> >
    >> > 2500's are pretty much a thing of the past.
    >> >
    >> >>
    >> >> 2611:
    >> >> * Same concerns over 10MBPS VLANs, but I also see VLANs advertised as
    >> >> one of its features.
    >> >
    >> > Again, pretty much a thing of the past. There is now an XM series that
    >> > is
    >> > 10/100 I think.
    >> >
    >> >> * Are WICs the only way to connect this router to a WAN, or can I plug
    >> >> my ADSL modem into one of the two LAN ports, and plug the other LAN
    >> >> port
    >> >> into my switch?
    >> >
    >> > You can use one lan port for lan and one for the DSL Modem.
    >> >
    >> >> * could I avoid the high cost of the ADSL WIC by using a WIC1-ENET and
    >> >> plugging my modem into that instead?
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> > Yes, but the interface will dequeue faster than your modem will handle
    >> > it.
    >> > In some cases, you may need to do some traffic shaping.
    >> >
    >> >> 1710:
    >> >> * seems like a cost-effective, simple solution, but cisco's
    >> >> recommendation to get a 1711 or 1712 (about 4X as much $ on eBay) on
    >> >> the
    >> >> 1701s web page make me wonder what I'm missing.
    >> >
    >> > 1710, 1711 or 1712 would probably be a good choice. I don't know what
    >> > all
    >> > bundles are available, but I like everything in the 1700 series that is
    >> > a
    >> > vpn/fw bundle.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>
    >> >> I know these are pretty lame questions, but I've looked every place I
    >> >> know of and couldn't find any straight answers.
    >> >>
    >> >> -Thomas
    >> >
    >> > I would consider getting help from a cisco consultant. You may also
    >> > want
    >> > to save yourself the headache and get a switch that can do PVLAN
    >> > (private
    >> > vlan). Also if you are being an ISP to this group, consider what
    >> > happens
    >> > when end users want to do online gaming with one another.
    >> >

    >>
    >> I was thinking along the same lines - a layer 3 capable switch may be a
    >> better fit than trying to put a router behind your DSL modem. You might
    >> want to consider ditching your 1924 and replacing it with a Cat 3550. You
    >> should be able to get by with the SMI image as I believe that does static
    >> routes (and maybe RIP). You shouldn't have any need for the EMI image
    >> since
    >> I don't see any reason for routing protocols in the setup you've
    >> specified.
    >> The 3550 is a nice switch that is more than capable of routing your 16
    >> vlans, plus it has some QoS features if the need for that should arise.
    >>
    >> Cletus

    >
    > Thanks for the tip!
    > I forgot to specify I'm doing NAT to dish IP addresses to the computers
    > so they don't have to connect open PPPoE. Wouldn't I need a router to
    > handle this?
    >
    > -Thomas


    The 3550 does have layer 3 support. Unfortunately, according to
    http://tinyurl.com/6d773
    it does not currently support NAT. Also, I would say it is even less likely
    to support pppoe. I don't think there is a cost effective single box
    solution.
     
    PES, Sep 4, 2004
    #6
    1. Advertising

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