What not to do with a UPS

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by MoonsOfJupiter, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. I've found at my new job that my boss has configured his server cabinets (4)
    each with two UPS, daisy-chained together. Nothing but a UPS is plugged into
    the first, and then all the load is placed on the last (identical) UPS. He
    thinks get double the run time.

    I made some negative comments, but ultimately was unconvincing.

    I found this at www.APCC.com:

    4) In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run time. If
    you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when on
    battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS will also
    go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as
    distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will not
    provide any extra run-time to the load.

    http://tinyurl.com/clvxd
    (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=39
    7&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=5O4PodXh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PS
    ZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTAmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF
    9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWRhaX
    N5IGNoYWlu&p_li=&p_topview=1)

    Can any of you smart people validate or expand on why we should not be
    daisy-chaining UPSs together?

    Thanks

    :O:
    wd
    MoonsOfJupiter, Dec 16, 2005
    #1
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  2. MoonsOfJupiter

    olfart Guest

    "MoonsOfJupiter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've found at my new job that my boss has configured his server cabinets
    > (4)
    > each with two UPS, daisy-chained together. Nothing but a UPS is plugged
    > into
    > the first, and then all the load is placed on the last (identical) UPS. He
    > thinks get double the run time.
    >
    > I made some negative comments, but ultimately was unconvincing.
    >
    > I found this at www.APCC.com:
    >
    > 4) In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run time.
    > If
    > you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when on
    > battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS will also
    > go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as
    > distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will not
    > provide any extra run-time to the load.
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/clvxd
    > (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=39
    > 7&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=5O4PodXh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PS
    > ZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTAmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF
    > 9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWRhaX
    > N5IGNoYWlu&p_li=&p_topview=1)
    >
    > Can any of you smart people validate or expand on why we should not be
    > daisy-chaining UPSs together?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > :O:
    > wd
    >


    I'll take a wild guess....
    Because the mfg says so
    olfart, Dec 16, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "olfart" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "MoonsOfJupiter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I've found at my new job that my boss has configured his server cabinets
    > > (4)
    > > each with two UPS, daisy-chained together. Nothing but a UPS is plugged
    > > into
    > > the first, and then all the load is placed on the last (identical) UPS.

    He
    > > thinks get double the run time.
    > >
    > > I made some negative comments, but ultimately was unconvincing.
    > >
    > > I found this at www.APCC.com:
    > >
    > > 4) In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run time.
    > > If
    > > you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when on
    > > battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS will

    also
    > > go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as
    > > distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will not
    > > provide any extra run-time to the load.
    > >
    > > http://tinyurl.com/clvxd
    > >

    (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=39
    > >

    7&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=5O4PodXh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PS
    > >

    ZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTAmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF
    > >

    9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWRhaX
    > > N5IGNoYWlu&p_li=&p_topview=1)
    > >
    > > Can any of you smart people validate or expand on why we should not be
    > > daisy-chaining UPSs together?
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > >
    > > :O:
    > > wd
    > >

    >
    > I'll take a wild guess....
    > Because the mfg says so
    >

    Yeah, I know, but he thinks he knows better that what they say. I'm looking
    for some electrician-speak to close the case.

    Thanks anyways.

    :O:
    wd
    MoonsOfJupiter, Dec 16, 2005
    #3
  4. MoonsOfJupiter

    Fakename Guest

    Ya well then you're not going to convince him. The only thing that will
    convince somebody like that is having it blow up in his face.

    It's funny, he believes enough about the product to buy it, but not
    enough to use as recomended. Jesus, I fucking hate jerkoffs like that.

    Have fun with that one.



    MoonsOfJupiter wrote:
    > "olfart" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>"MoonsOfJupiter" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>>I've found at my new job that my boss has configured his server cabinets
    >>>(4)
    >>>each with two UPS, daisy-chained together. Nothing but a UPS is plugged
    >>>into
    >>>the first, and then all the load is placed on the last (identical) UPS.

    >
    > He
    >
    >>>thinks get double the run time.
    >>>
    >>>I made some negative comments, but ultimately was unconvincing.
    >>>
    >>>I found this at www.APCC.com:
    >>>
    >>>4) In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run time.
    >>>If
    >>>you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when on
    >>>battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS will

    >
    > also
    >
    >>>go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as
    >>>distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will not
    >>>provide any extra run-time to the load.
    >>>
    >>>http://tinyurl.com/clvxd
    >>>

    >
    > (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=39
    >
    > 7&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=5O4PodXh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PS
    >
    > ZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTAmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF
    >
    > 9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWRhaX
    >
    >>>N5IGNoYWlu&p_li=&p_topview=1)
    >>>
    >>>Can any of you smart people validate or expand on why we should not be
    >>>daisy-chaining UPSs together?
    >>>
    >>>Thanks
    >>>
    >>>:O:
    >>>wd
    >>>

    >>
    >>I'll take a wild guess....
    >>Because the mfg says so
    >>

    >
    > Yeah, I know, but he thinks he knows better that what they say. I'm looking
    > for some electrician-speak to close the case.
    >
    > Thanks anyways.
    >
    > :O:
    > wd
    >
    >
    Fakename, Dec 17, 2005
    #4
  5. MoonsOfJupiter

    Kawosa Guest

    Fakename <> wrote in
    news:6ONof.122643$ki.5493@pd7tw2no:

    > Ya well then you're not going to convince him. The only thing that
    > will convince somebody like that is having it blow up in his face.
    >
    > It's funny, he believes enough about the product to buy it, but not
    > enough to use as recomended. Jesus, I fucking hate jerkoffs like
    > that.
    >
    > Have fun with that one.
    >
    >
    >
    > MoonsOfJupiter wrote:
    >> "olfart" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>"MoonsOfJupiter" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>>I've found at my new job that my boss has configured his server
    >>>>cabinets (4)
    >>>>each with two UPS, daisy-chained together. Nothing but a UPS is
    >>>>plugged into
    >>>>the first, and then all the load is placed on the last (identical)
    >>>>UPS.

    >>
    >> He
    >>
    >>>>thinks get double the run time.
    >>>>
    >>>>I made some negative comments, but ultimately was unconvincing.
    >>>>
    >>>>I found this at www.APCC.com:
    >>>>
    >>>>4) In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run
    >>>>time. If
    >>>>you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when
    >>>>on battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS
    >>>>will

    >>
    >> also
    >>
    >>>>go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as
    >>>>distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will
    >>>>not provide any extra run-time to the load.
    >>>>
    >>>>http://tinyurl.com/clvxd
    >>>>

    >>
    >> (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_fa
    >> qid=39
    >>
    >> 7&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=5O4PodXh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0
    >> X2J5PS
    >>
    >> ZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTAmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9j
    >> dj0mcF
    >>
    >> 9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0
    >> PWRhaX
    >>
    >>>>N5IGNoYWlu&p_li=&p_topview=1)
    >>>>
    >>>>Can any of you smart people validate or expand on why we should not
    >>>>be daisy-chaining UPSs together?
    >>>>
    >>>>Thanks
    >>>>
    >>>>:O:
    >>>>wd
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>I'll take a wild guess....
    >>>Because the mfg says so
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yeah, I know, but he thinks he knows better that what they say. I'm
    >> looking for some electrician-speak to close the case.
    >>
    >> Thanks anyways.
    >>
    >> :O:
    >> wd
    >>

    Electron speak: Placing 2 capacitors (batteries) in series is the
    opposite of resistance. You decrease the current capability at basically
    the same voltage since what you have effectively done is decreased the
    total plate surface. Decreasing plate surface means less electrons are
    collected and thus you will have a smaller current charge. In other
    words, you will have less time to discharge.

    Explain to the boss that batteries are simply the same thing as
    capacitors and then have him take a look at the following web page:

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capac.html

    Unless he is totally dense, he should get the general idea.
    Kawosa, Dec 17, 2005
    #5
  6. "Fakename" <> wrote in message
    news:6ONof.122643$ki.5493@pd7tw2no...
    > Ya well then you're not going to convince him. The only thing that will
    > convince somebody like that is having it blow up in his face.
    >
    > It's funny, he believes enough about the product to buy it, but not enough
    > to use as recomended. Jesus, I fucking hate jerkoffs like that.
    >
    > Have fun with that one.
    >


    We'll I think I'm close to convincing him, I'm just looking for a little
    more weight to my arguments.

    :O:
    wd

    >
    >
    > MoonsOfJupiter wrote:
    >> "olfart" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>"MoonsOfJupiter" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>>I've found at my new job that my boss has configured his server cabinets
    >>>>(4)
    >>>>each with two UPS, daisy-chained together. Nothing but a UPS is plugged
    >>>>into
    >>>>the first, and then all the load is placed on the last (identical) UPS.

    >>
    >> He
    >>
    >>>>thinks get double the run time.
    >>>>
    >>>>I made some negative comments, but ultimately was unconvincing.
    >>>>
    >>>>I found this at www.APCC.com:
    >>>>
    >>>>4) In most cases, daisy-chaining UPSs does not allow for extra run time.
    >>>>If
    >>>>you are using a UPS that outputs a step-approximated sine wave when on
    >>>>battery, as soon as the fist UPS goes on battery, the second UPS will

    >>
    >> also
    >>
    >>>>go on battery because it will see the step-approximated sine wave as
    >>>>distorted or bad power. Both units will discharge together, and will not
    >>>>provide any extra run-time to the load.
    >>>>
    >>>>http://tinyurl.com/clvxd
    >>>>

    >>
    >> (http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=39
    >>
    >> 7&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=5O4PodXh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PS
    >>
    >> ZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTAmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF
    >>
    >> 9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWRhaX
    >>
    >>>>N5IGNoYWlu&p_li=&p_topview=1)
    >>>>
    >>>>Can any of you smart people validate or expand on why we should not be
    >>>>daisy-chaining UPSs together?
    >>>>
    >>>>Thanks
    >>>>
    >>>>:O:
    >>>>wd
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>I'll take a wild guess....
    >>>Because the mfg says so
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yeah, I know, but he thinks he knows better that what they say. I'm
    >> looking
    >> for some electrician-speak to close the case.
    >>
    >> Thanks anyways.
    >>
    >> :O:
    >> wd
    >>
    MoonsOfJupiter, Dec 17, 2005
    #6
  7. "Kawosa" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns972F6D79E07Bkawomailcoma@207.115.17.102...


    8<snip>8

    >>>>>Can any of you smart people validate or expand on why we should not
    >>>>>be daisy-chaining UPSs together?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Thanks
    >>>>>
    >>>>>:O:
    >>>>>wd
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>I'll take a wild guess....
    >>>>Because the mfg says so
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Yeah, I know, but he thinks he knows better that what they say. I'm
    >>> looking for some electrician-speak to close the case.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks anyways.
    >>>
    >>> :O:
    >>> wd
    >>>

    > Electron speak: Placing 2 capacitors (batteries) in series is the
    > opposite of resistance. You decrease the current capability at basically
    > the same voltage since what you have effectively done is decreased the
    > total plate surface. Decreasing plate surface means less electrons are
    > collected and thus you will have a smaller current charge. In other
    > words, you will have less time to discharge.
    >
    > Explain to the boss that batteries are simply the same thing as
    > capacitors and then have him take a look at the following web page:
    >
    > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capac.html
    >
    > Unless he is totally dense, he should get the general idea.


    Cool.

    Thanks.

    :O:
    wd
    MoonsOfJupiter, Dec 17, 2005
    #7
    1. Advertising

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