What is this?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It says:
    "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl" Needless to
    say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no account with them or
    anything.

    I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all found
    nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.

    Anyone know what's going on?

    Thanks,
    --
    ~misfit~ (Arghh! It's doing it again. The box is titled "AVG E-mail
    Scanner". I'm not sure but I think it only does it when I have OE open, I've
    checked to see if somehow an entry got into the 'accounts' part but all
    that's there is Orcon's NNTP server. I don't use OE for email. It stays
    there for about 2 - 3 minutes sometimes before vanishing).
    ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. ~misfit~

    Krazy Bob Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:43c0c5fd$...
    > Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    > says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    > Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no account with
    > them or anything.
    >
    > I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all found
    > nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >
    > Anyone know what's going on?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > --
    > ~misfit~ (Arghh! It's doing it again. The box is titled "AVG E-mail
    > Scanner". I'm not sure but I think it only does it when I have OE open,
    > I've checked to see if somehow an entry got into the 'accounts' part but
    > all that's there is Orcon's NNTP server. I don't use OE for email. It
    > stays there for about 2 - 3 minutes sometimes before vanishing).

    Well POP3 is to do with email accounts, so maybe a programe *malware
    spyware* is trying to send email outs?

    Have you tried house call to do their free online virus / spyware scan?
    i know you said you ran spybot and ad-aware, but what have you got to lose?

    also on off topic note, i got my comp to reconise my cd-rw, and can
    sucessfully write to it now, but still nero fails on me :-s

    KB
    Krazy Bob, Jan 8, 2006
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~

    -=rjh=- Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It says:
    > "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl" Needless to
    > say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no account with them or
    > anything.
    >
    > I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all found
    > nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >
    > Anyone know what's going on?
    >
    > Thanks,


    http://www.google.com/search?q=AutoPOP3: connecting gives a lot of
    similar experiences, possibly some answers.
    -=rjh=-, Jan 8, 2006
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    steve Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    > Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    > says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    > Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no account with
    > them or anything.
    >
    > I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all found
    > nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >
    > Anyone know what's going on?
    >
    > Thanks,


    This thread from the grisoft forums is relevant:

    http://forum.grisoft.cz/freeforum/read.php?3,19188,backpage=119,sv=

    ....and this one;

    http://forum.grisoft.cz/freeforum/read.php?3,57392,page=1,backpage=3,sv=

    .....and this thread - read the whole thing - is down right SCARY.

    http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=408888

    Summary: AVG sets up a proxy local to your machine to scan e-mail on a mail
    server before downloading it.

    'autopop3' popups are the notification it is doing this.

    Why it is accessing a DSL-connected system on a Dutch ISP is some cause for
    concern. Something on your system is looking for mail there.

    One thread (above) speculates on rootkits hicing from AVG and talking to
    mail servers - traffic being proxied by AVG.

    This is either just some stupid message from AVG....or you've got something
    on your system (legitimate or not) trying to do mail traffic you don't know
    about.

    A virus? Or some app behaving as normal - but you don't know what that
    'normal" is?
    steve, Jan 8, 2006
    #4
  5. ~misfit~

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:43c0c5fd$...
    > Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    > says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    > Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no account with
    > them or anything.
    >
    > I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all found
    > nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >
    > Anyone know what's going on?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > --
    > ~misfit~ (Arghh! It's doing it again. The box is titled "AVG E-mail
    > Scanner". I'm not sure but I think it only does it when I have OE open,
    > I've checked to see if somehow an entry got into the 'accounts' part but
    > all that's there is Orcon's NNTP server. I don't use OE for email. It
    > stays there for about 2 - 3 minutes sometimes before vanishing).


    http://news.com.com/Antivirus makers catch up to Windows bug/2100-1002_3-6018696.html?tag=nefd.top

    Check out how well AVG did in some Anti Virus tests.
    The good news is that AVG wasn't bottom.

    Just remember that the tests are only a snapshot at the time - many updates
    have been done since by some of the Anti Virus products at least.

    The other good news is that AVG is better than nothing at all.

    E. Scrooge
    E. Scrooge, Jan 8, 2006
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    -=rjh=- wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins.
    >> It says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip
    >> 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl" Needless to say I don't have
    >> anything to do with versatel, no account with them or anything.
    >>
    >> I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all
    >> found nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >>
    >> Anyone know what's going on?
    >>
    >> Thanks,

    >
    > http://www.google.com/search?q=AutoPOP3: connecting gives a lot of
    > similar experiences, possibly some answers.


    Thanks for that.

    Wow! My head hurts. I've read a whole bunch of pages but no definitive
    answer. It has nothing to do with OE as it happens when OE isn't running. In
    fact it doesn't matter what programs are running, it just shows up
    periodically.

    I figure it isn't actually getting through so I might try a re-install of
    AVG first (though I doubt that's the problem) and then turn off the email
    scanner if a reinstall doesn't fix it. I'm using Calypso for email, I don't
    think it's vulnerable to anything other than opening attachments, like all
    email proggies.

    Thanks for the help.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006
    #6
  7. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Krazy Bob wrote:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > news:43c0c5fd$...
    >> Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    >> says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    >> Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no
    >> account with them or anything.
    >>
    >> I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all
    >> found nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >>
    >> Anyone know what's going on?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> --
    >> ~misfit~ (Arghh! It's doing it again. The box is titled "AVG E-mail
    >> Scanner". I'm not sure but I think it only does it when I have OE
    >> open, I've checked to see if somehow an entry got into the
    >> 'accounts' part but all that's there is Orcon's NNTP server. I don't
    >> use OE for email. It stays there for about 2 - 3 minutes sometimes
    >> before vanishing).

    > Well POP3 is to do with email accounts, so maybe a programe *malware
    > spyware* is trying to send email outs?
    >
    > Have you tried house call to do their free online virus / spyware
    > scan? i know you said you ran spybot and ad-aware, but what have you got
    > to
    > lose?


    No, I haven't. Might give it a go.

    > also on off topic note, i got my comp to reconise my cd-rw, and can
    > sucessfully write to it now, but still nero fails on me :-s


    There's some weird shit going on with your hardware matey.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006
    #7
  8. T'was the Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:01:39 +1300 when I remembered steve
    <> saying something like this:

    >This is either just some stupid message from AVG....or you've got something
    >on your system (legitimate or not) trying to do mail traffic you don't know
    >about.


    Not great stuff. First thing I'd do would be block access to that IP
    or range of IP using your firewall. At least that'll stop any further
    communication to that IP addy.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    Waylon Kenning, Jan 8, 2006
    #8
  9. ~misfit~

    Krazy Bob Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Krazy Bob wrote:
    >> "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    >> news:43c0c5fd$...
    >>> Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    >>> says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    >>> Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no
    >>> account with them or anything.
    >>>
    >>> I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all
    >>> found nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone know what's going on?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> --
    >>> ~misfit~ (Arghh! It's doing it again. The box is titled "AVG E-mail
    >>> Scanner". I'm not sure but I think it only does it when I have OE
    >>> open, I've checked to see if somehow an entry got into the
    >>> 'accounts' part but all that's there is Orcon's NNTP server. I don't
    >>> use OE for email. It stays there for about 2 - 3 minutes sometimes
    >>> before vanishing).

    >> Well POP3 is to do with email accounts, so maybe a programe *malware
    >> spyware* is trying to send email outs?
    >>
    >> Have you tried house call to do their free online virus / spyware
    >> scan? i know you said you ran spybot and ad-aware, but what have you got
    >> to
    >> lose?

    >
    > No, I haven't. Might give it a go.
    >
    >> also on off topic note, i got my comp to reconise my cd-rw, and can
    >> sucessfully write to it now, but still nero fails on me :-s

    >
    > There's some weird shit going on with your hardware matey.
    > --
    > ~misfit~

    Don't i no it ;-)

    KB
    Krazy Bob, Jan 8, 2006
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    steve wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    >> says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    >> Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no
    >> account with them or anything.
    >>
    >> I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all
    >> found nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >>
    >> Anyone know what's going on?
    >>
    >> Thanks,

    >
    > This thread from the grisoft forums is relevant:
    >
    > http://forum.grisoft.cz/freeforum/read.php?3,19188,backpage=119,sv=
    >
    > ...and this one;
    >
    > http://forum.grisoft.cz/freeforum/read.php?3,57392,page=1,backpage=3,sv=
    >
    > ....and this thread - read the whole thing - is down right SCARY.
    >
    > http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=408888
    >
    > Summary: AVG sets up a proxy local to your machine to scan e-mail on
    > a mail server before downloading it.
    >
    > 'autopop3' popups are the notification it is doing this.


    The strange thing is, I don't see a similar message when I'm downloading
    legitimate emails.

    > Why it is accessing a DSL-connected system on a Dutch ISP is some
    > cause for concern. Something on your system is looking for mail there.


    Yeah.

    > One thread (above) speculates on rootkits hicing from AVG and talking
    > to mail servers - traffic being proxied by AVG.


    I've read heaps about the phenomena now, it seems that it's quite
    wide-spread.

    > This is either just some stupid message from AVG....or you've got
    > something on your system (legitimate or not) trying to do mail
    > traffic you don't know about.


    I'm leaning toward the "AVG is borked" camp. I think it may be an AVG
    glitch, a phantom thing. (I hope so anyway). I've uninstalled, deleted
    registry entries and the Grisoft folder, then downloaded the latest version,
    updated and haven't had the problem since. I hope it stays that way.

    > A virus? Or some app behaving as normal - but you don't know what that
    > 'normal" is?


    I doubt it's some app behaving as normal... Unless it has something to do
    with Gmail notifier. That's the problem with a lot of these refrences on the
    net, you don't know what other software you may have in common.

    Thanks for your time, hopefully the re-install has fixed it.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006
    #10
  11. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    E. Scrooge wrote:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > news:43c0c5fd$...
    >> Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    >> says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    >> Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no
    >> account with them or anything.
    >>
    >> I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all
    >> found nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >>
    >> Anyone know what's going on?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> --
    >> ~misfit~ (Arghh! It's doing it again. The box is titled "AVG E-mail
    >> Scanner". I'm not sure but I think it only does it when I have OE
    >> open, I've checked to see if somehow an entry got into the
    >> 'accounts' part but all that's there is Orcon's NNTP server. I don't
    >> use OE for email. It stays there for about 2 - 3 minutes sometimes
    >> before vanishing).

    >
    > http://news.com.com/Antivirus makers catch up to Windows bug/2100-1002_3-6018696.html?tag=nefd.top
    >
    > Check out how well AVG did in some Anti Virus tests.
    > The good news is that AVG wasn't bottom.
    >
    > Just remember that the tests are only a snapshot at the time - many
    > updates have been done since by some of the Anti Virus products at
    > least.
    > The other good news is that AVG is better than nothing at all.


    That's the way I look at it. I've read a lot of reviews and, ultimately,
    depending on what you read, all AV software perform similarly when you
    average out the various tests. AVG has been good for me for a few years,
    tried antivir for a while but changed back for some reason. (Can't remember
    why now).
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006
    #11
  12. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:
    > T'was the Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:01:39 +1300 when I remembered steve
    > <> saying something like this:
    >
    >> This is either just some stupid message from AVG....or you've got
    >> something on your system (legitimate or not) trying to do mail
    >> traffic you don't know about.

    >
    > Not great stuff. First thing I'd do would be block access to that IP
    > or range of IP using your firewall. At least that'll stop any further
    > communication to that IP addy.


    Yep, done that. However, since I re-installed AVG I haven't had the problem.
    Maybe it'll rear it's ugly head again but I have my fingers crossed.

    Cheers,
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006
    #12
  13. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    > Thanks for your time, hopefully the re-install has fixed it.


    Forgot to mention, I have DU Meter installed with a transparent meter
    'always on top' near the top right of my screen. It hasn't shown any traffic
    during those AutoPOP things so it doesn't appear anything is actually going
    out/coming in.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 8, 2006
    #13
  14. ~misfit~

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:43c10c84$...
    > E. Scrooge wrote:
    >> "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    >> news:43c0c5fd$...
    >>> Every so often a box appears by my systray and the AVG icon spins. It
    >>> says: "AutoPOP3: connecting to ip 141-58-173-82.dyndsl.versatel.nl"
    >>> Needless to say I don't have anything to do with versatel, no
    >>> account with them or anything.
    >>>
    >>> I've done a full virus scan and ran Adaware and Spybot and they all
    >>> found nothing. I have no idea what's happening. OS: XP Pro sp2.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone know what's going on?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> --
    >>> ~misfit~ (Arghh! It's doing it again. The box is titled "AVG E-mail
    >>> Scanner". I'm not sure but I think it only does it when I have OE
    >>> open, I've checked to see if somehow an entry got into the
    >>> 'accounts' part but all that's there is Orcon's NNTP server. I don't
    >>> use OE for email. It stays there for about 2 - 3 minutes sometimes
    >>> before vanishing).

    >>
    >> http://news.com.com/Antivirus makers catch up to Windows bug/2100-1002_3-6018696.html?tag=nefd.top
    >>
    >> Check out how well AVG did in some Anti Virus tests.
    >> The good news is that AVG wasn't bottom.
    >>
    >> Just remember that the tests are only a snapshot at the time - many
    >> updates have been done since by some of the Anti Virus products at
    >> least.
    >> The other good news is that AVG is better than nothing at all.

    >
    > That's the way I look at it. I've read a lot of reviews and, ultimately,
    > depending on what you read, all AV software perform similarly when you
    > average out the various tests. AVG has been good for me for a few years,
    > tried antivir for a while but changed back for some reason. (Can't
    > remember why now).
    > --
    > ~misfit~


    For a while AVG was easier to update than AntiVir, but AntiVir has gone
    through changes making it easier than ever, especially when the full program
    is updated as well. No more going through setup screens to install the lot
    when the full program is updated.
    When I used AVG the updates were a few days apart.
    Avast gets good mentions.
    When testing Anti Virus software it would be good to see it done over
    several weeks if not even a few months. With quite a lot of fresh updates
    over the time of testing the results would be more realistic. A snapshot
    test would miss an update that would be less than a day old that could cover
    a few problems that the software missed in the snapshot test. The results
    might still be similar but at least they'd be a better indication.

    E. Scrooge
    E. Scrooge, Jan 8, 2006
    #14
  15. ~misfit~

    steve Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> Thanks for your time, hopefully the re-install has fixed it.

    >
    > Forgot to mention, I have DU Meter installed with a transparent meter
    > 'always on top' near the top right of my screen. It hasn't shown any
    > traffic during those AutoPOP things so it doesn't appear anything is
    > actually going out/coming in.


    Interesting.......I hate PC strangenesses like this. :)
    steve, Jan 8, 2006
    #15
  16. In article <sP3wf.13456$>, says...
    >
    > also on off topic note, i got my comp to reconise my cd-rw, and can
    > sucessfully write to it now, but still nero fails on me :-s
    >
    > KB
    >


    You may have StarForce 'copy protection' secret drivers on your machine.
    Google for starforce removal tool, see if that fixes it (and it would bugger
    one of your games if that's what it is). StarForce does things like stuff up
    Nero, stuff up some dvd drives ...

    -P.

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
    Peter Huebner, Jan 8, 2006
    #16
  17. In article <43c0c5fd$>, says...
    >
    > Anyone know what's going on?
    >


    Yes, but I'm not telling ;-)
    Actually, I know about as much as you do - some app is connecting out on port
    25 (or is it 110?) and AVG is intercepting and checking and forwarding; that's
    all it will do.

    I would use two tools to try to track the culprit: processexplorer from
    sysinternals.com and Sygate firewall pro. Sygate firewall gives you options,
    once you've opened the interface window, what to display in the lower window
    (right click) and if you select 'connections' it will display each and any app
    that tries to listen or send on any one port on your machine. It should show
    you the perpretrator when/while it's happening.

    h.t.h. -Peter

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
    Peter Huebner, Jan 8, 2006
    #17
  18. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:
    > In article <43c0c5fd$>,
    > says...
    >>
    >> Anyone know what's going on?
    >>

    >
    > Yes, but I'm not telling ;-)


    Heh.

    > Actually, I know about as much as you do - some app is connecting out
    > on port 25 (or is it 110?) and AVG is intercepting and checking and
    > forwarding; that's all it will do.


    That's what I think too. As long as malware that is in AVG's database isn't
    being sent then AVG will just let it go.

    > I would use two tools to try to track the culprit: processexplorer
    > from sysinternals.com and Sygate firewall pro. Sygate firewall gives
    > you options, once you've opened the interface window, what to display
    > in the lower window (right click) and if you select 'connections' it
    > will display each and any app that tries to listen or send on any one
    > port on your machine. It should show you the perpretrator when/while
    > it's happening.


    Thanks Peter. I don't have Sygate Pro. I do have Processexplorer (both XP
    and 9x versions, it's invaluable in 9x machines).

    Last night, after my unin/reinstall of AVG I didn't see it for ages. Then I
    opened Azureus and it happened almost immediately, along with an AutoPOP
    connection to a different destination (the window didn't stay open long
    enough for me to note it) and then simply a window saying "AutoPOP3...." but
    without a destination listed.

    Sooooo. I've deleted all the torrents I was seeding (After copying the files
    themselves to another PC) and then went to Azureus' store folder and deleted
    everything not related to the torrents I'm currently downloading. I'm
    wondering if it's part of a tracker system maybe, used for tracking
    torrents? Or I could be barking up the wrong tree and it could have been a
    co-incidence that it happened on starting Azureus.

    It bothered me to delete the torrents I was seeding as I like to give back,
    especially the harder-to-get torrents (I had plans of leaving all the
    torrents I've downloaded seeding until I ran out of disk space). However,
    Azureus seems to open a lot of files on start-up and it is conceivable that
    it (or at least one or more of the files it opened) was the culprit.

    Time will tell I guess. If the above scenario is correct it may've been not
    a big deal, although I don't like my PC sending out stuff without my
    knowledge and express permission. However, I hate to thank that my machine
    may have become a zombie, sending out spam or somesuch.

    We shall see.

    Cheers,
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 9, 2006
    #18
  19. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    steve wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>
    >>> Thanks for your time, hopefully the re-install has fixed it.

    >>
    >> Forgot to mention, I have DU Meter installed with a transparent meter
    >> 'always on top' near the top right of my screen. It hasn't shown any
    >> traffic during those AutoPOP things so it doesn't appear anything is
    >> actually going out/coming in.

    >
    > Interesting.......I hate PC strangenesses like this. :)


    Same here. See my reply to Peter for more info. On initial appearance of the
    AutoPOP thing last night I'd just started Azureus but connections hadn't
    been established. I couldn't see any traffic in DU Meter until Azureus got
    going. If Azureus is the trigger for opening the file that caused this, it
    continued to 'work' after Azureus was stopped. Now I've cleaned out my
    incoming folder a lot I'll see what happens and report back.

    Cheers,
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Jan 9, 2006
    #19
  20. ~misfit~

    Krazy Bob Guest

    "Peter Huebner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <sP3wf.13456$>,
    > says...
    >>
    >> also on off topic note, i got my comp to reconise my cd-rw, and can
    >> sucessfully write to it now, but still nero fails on me :-s
    >>
    >> KB
    >>

    >
    > You may have StarForce 'copy protection' secret drivers on your machine.
    > Google for starforce removal tool, see if that fixes it (and it would
    > bugger
    > one of your games if that's what it is). StarForce does things like stuff
    > up
    > Nero, stuff up some dvd drives ...
    >


    Googled it, downloaded it, ran the programe and it said "no protection
    drivers found to remove or uninstall"
    so i guess thats a good thing, but also bad as in back to square one, but
    hey thanks for the suggestion.

    KB
    Krazy Bob, Jan 9, 2006
    #20
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