What is this MS .NET Crap, and why do we need it..?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Geronimo, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. Geronimo

    Geronimo Guest

    Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my Single user
    system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.

    Is this MS Answer to JAVA..?

    I have noticed a number of Utilities now require this to be installed and
    these are not MS ones, so why am I being forced to use some thing I do not
    want..?

    And Why do we need it..?
    Geronimo, Oct 23, 2004
    #1
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  2. Geronimo

    Chris Mayhew Guest

    Geronimo wrote:
    >
    >
    > Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my Single user
    > system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.
    >
    > Is this MS Answer to JAVA..?
    >
    > I have noticed a number of Utilities now require this to be installed and
    > these are not MS ones, so why am I being forced to use some thing I do not
    > want..?
    >
    > And Why do we need it..?
    >
    >

    I had this very same problem a few days back - I understood it to be
    able installing needed *.dll's etc., like VB


    --
    Chris Mayhew, Oct 23, 2004
    #2
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  3. Geronimo

    Dorado Guest

    Geronimo wrote:
    > Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my
    > Single user system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.
    >
    > Is this MS Answer to JAVA..?
    >
    > I have noticed a number of Utilities now require this to be
    > installed and these are not MS ones, so why am I being forced to use
    > some thing I do not want..?
    >
    > And Why do we need it..?


    What Logon? the .NET framework doesn't need any logon. Its simply an
    application development framework, think of it as an extension to the C++,
    VB language to allow for more feature. You need it installed if you want to
    run any application developed using the framework. More and more people are
    starting to use it to develop programs so sooner or later you will come
    across a program you want which requires it.

    You are NOT forced to use something you don't want. If you don't want to
    install the .NET framework and don't install the program that needs it,
    simple. Its like saying I don't want to install Windows but I want to run
    IE.
    Dorado, Oct 23, 2004
    #3
  4. Geronimo

    Dumbkiwi Guest

    On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:17:39 +1300, Dorado wrote:

    > Geronimo wrote:


    <snip>

    > You are NOT forced to use something you don't want. If you don't want to
    > install the .NET framework and don't install the program that needs it,
    > simple. Its like saying I don't want to install Windows but I want to run
    > IE.


    Which is possible on linux using wine - although it's more of a "can
    run IE" rather than a "want to run IE". So it's not like saying that at
    all, really.

    Matt
    Dumbkiwi, Oct 23, 2004
    #4
  5. Geronimo

    ZZzzz Guest

    Geronimo wrote:

    >
    >
    > Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my Single user
    > system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.
    >


    It does that when you first install it - it adds an ASP parsing account
    to your PC. Installing .NET SP1 (available through Windows Update)
    removes the account again.

    As a side note, if you're installing it to use the bloated ATI Control
    Center drivers don't bother. They work just the same as the regular
    Catalysts but look 'prettier' (and at only TWICE the size) :-/


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    ZZzzz, Oct 23, 2004
    #5
  6. Geronimo

    Dorado Guest

    Dumbkiwi wrote:
    > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:17:39 +1300, Dorado wrote:
    >
    >> Geronimo wrote:

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >> You are NOT forced to use something you don't want. If you don't
    >> want to install the .NET framework and don't install the program
    >> that needs it, simple. Its like saying I don't want to install
    >> Windows but I want to run IE.

    >
    > Which is possible on linux using wine - although it's more of a "can
    > run IE" rather than a "want to run IE". So it's not like saying that
    > at all, really.
    >
    > Matt


    yes but wine still requires the windows dlls right?
    Dorado, Oct 23, 2004
    #6
  7. Geronimo

    David Preece Guest

    Geronimo wrote:
    > [What is this .net crap] And Why do we need it..?


    Now this is an excellent question and the answer depends on your point
    of view.

    Before answering I'd like to say that people in the "enthusiast" PC
    community had better just get over it. You're having .net installed,
    because Microsoft says so and you all do what Microsoft says eventually.

    This .net crap is the solution to a whole raft of problems:

    1, The Win32 API is an ill considered pile of shite that's an absolute
    bitch to code for.
    2, Most commercial applications are built on a framework called MFC
    that's similarly ill considered and shite.
    3, Some are built on VB which is an object programming language in the
    same way that I'm an olympic gymnast.
    4, Most coders can't write in C++, which is a shame.

    So .net solves this on three levels:

    1, It implements a managed common language runtime. This gets over both
    the VB-crap and C++-hard problems in one fell swoop. It add stuff like
    garbage collection. The native language of .net is C# and there's not
    all that much wrong with it - it' certainly a big improvement over VB
    which is, basically, dead. Thankfully. It's only marginally slow.
    2. .Net also has a new framework called, IIRC, .net. This is a
    significant improvement over MFC provided you don't want to do anything
    too clever. It's nearly as good as Delphi's framework, arrives nearly
    ten years later and was designed by the same guy.
    3, Finally .net arrives with MS's famous hype machine, ensuring vast
    tracts of developer mindshare.

    So, in essence, it's a way of making development costs cheaper, the
    resulting software more reliable, and pushing the cost out to the
    clients in terms of more CPU, RAM, memory bandwidth, and some stonkingly
    huge downloads.

    This .net crap is quite possibly the best thing that's happened to
    Windows software developers ever. Provided they didn't want to do
    anything too complicated, which is why there is now (and will be in the
    future) acres of badly designed .net freeware and shareware; and hoardes
    and hoardes of IIS+.net based "ecommerce" sites and similar horror shows
    to fall over at the first sign of more than five concurrent users.

    Enjoy.

    Dave
    David Preece, Oct 23, 2004
    #7
  8. Geronimo

    Toxickiwi Guest

    I think the first question related to the MS Passport ?! As said
    before you don't login to .Net it is a framework.. Linux user can try
    go-mono http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html if they want to
    try some C#

    On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:37:15 +1300, Dumbkiwi <>
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:17:39 +1300, Dorado wrote:
    >
    >> Geronimo wrote:

    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> You are NOT forced to use something you don't want. If you don't want to
    >> install the .NET framework and don't install the program that needs it,
    >> simple. Its like saying I don't want to install Windows but I want to run
    >> IE.

    >
    >Which is possible on linux using wine - although it's more of a "can
    >run IE" rather than a "want to run IE". So it's not like saying that at
    >all, really.
    >
    >Matt
    Toxickiwi, Oct 23, 2004
    #8
  9. Geronimo

    Geronimo Guest

    On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:17:39 +1300, "Dorado" <> wrote:

    >Geronimo wrote:
    >> Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my
    >> Single user system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.
    >>
    >> Is this MS Answer to JAVA..?
    >>
    >> I have noticed a number of Utilities now require this to be
    >> installed and these are not MS ones, so why am I being forced to use
    >> some thing I do not want..?
    >>
    >> And Why do we need it..?

    >
    >What Logon? the .NET framework doesn't need any logon. Its simply an
    >application development framework, think of it as an extension to the C++,
    >VB language to allow for more feature. You need it installed if you want to
    >run any application developed using the framework. More and more people are
    >starting to use it to develop programs so sooner or later you will come
    >across a program you want which requires it.
    >
    >You are NOT forced to use something you don't want. If you don't want to
    >install the .NET framework and don't install the program that needs it,
    >simple. Its like saying I don't want to install Windows but I want to run
    >IE.
    >




    When it was installed it had its own NET Logon Icon .


    Why are all these Apps that need NET installed, when they have nothing at all
    to do with a Network..
    Geronimo, Oct 23, 2004
    #9
  10. Geronimo

    Geronimo Guest

    On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:46:41 +1300, ZZzzz <> wrote:

    >Geronimo wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my Single user
    >> system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.
    >>

    >
    >It does that when you first install it - it adds an ASP parsing account
    >to your PC. Installing .NET SP1 (available through Windows Update)
    >removes the account again.
    >
    >As a side note, if you're installing it to use the bloated ATI Control
    >Center drivers don't bother. They work just the same as the regular
    >Catalysts but look 'prettier' (and at only TWICE the size) :-/
    >
    >
    >----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    >---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---




    No I don't run a Network but some software is now demanding it, but I do not
    know why this software needs NET installed, has nothing at all to do with a
    Network..
    Geronimo, Oct 23, 2004
    #10
  11. Geronimo

    Geronimo Guest

    On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:46:49 +1300, David Preece <>
    wrote:

    >Geronimo wrote:
    >> [What is this .net crap] And Why do we need it..?

    >
    >Now this is an excellent question and the answer depends on your point
    >of view.
    >
    >Before answering I'd like to say that people in the "enthusiast" PC
    >community had better just get over it. You're having .net installed,
    >because Microsoft says so and you all do what Microsoft says eventually.
    >
    >This .net crap is the solution to a whole raft of problems:




    Thanks

    But when I looked on MS yesterday to find out more, it was showing it as a
    Network thing and not as a new language thing that I concluded is what it
    was..?
    Geronimo, Oct 23, 2004
    #11
  12. Geronimo

    Bok Guest

    Geronimo wrote:

    Re: What is this MS .NET Crap, and why do we need it..?
    Good question. It covers a multitude of sins. It's primary objective, I
    believe, is for building and deploying internet based applications using
    a technology called web services. A web service is essentially any
    service deployed on the internet, the server side is called a producer
    and the client is a consumer.

    The PhotoSite application available from the PartnerPack link you
    provided looks like an example of a web services application. It has a
    client side part that allows you to construct photo albums offline and
    then you connect to what is most likely a web service provider to upload
    your the albums. The longer term intent is to make money from the
    service provided rather than the application, which will probably be free.

    > Is this MS Answer to JAVA..?


    Not exactly, Java is a language as is Visual Basic, C++, C# or Python.
    It's actually more comparable to J2EE (java 2 enterprise edition). J2EE
    has been around longer - .NET and J2EE are competitive computational
    platforms suitable for building distributed applications.

    > I have noticed a number of Utilities now require this to be

    installed > and these are not MS ones, so why am I being forced to use
    some thing > I do not want..?

    There will be many more non MS .NET applications before long, not all
    will be Web Services enabled since you can build any old app with .NET.

    Your not forced to use it, just like your not forced to use a particular
    web browser. However, in the same way that some web sites only work
    properly with a particular browser some apps will only work if the .NET
    platform is installed.
    Bok, Oct 23, 2004
    #12
  13. Geronimo

    Bok Guest

    Geronimo wrote:
    > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:46:41 +1300, ZZzzz <> wrote:
    > No I don't run a Network but some software is now demanding it, but I do not
    > know why this software needs NET installed, has nothing at all to do with a
    > Network..


    It is actually network related in that it's used to build and deploy Web
    services - see my other post for an attempt to explain this.
    Bok, Oct 23, 2004
    #13
  14. Geronimo

    Bok Guest

    David Preece wrote:
    > Geronimo wrote:
    >
    >> [What is this .net crap] And Why do we need it..?

    > Now this is an excellent question and the answer depends on your point
    > of view.


    An interasting and enjoyable reply, thanks David. Just a couple of comments.
    [detail snipped]

    > This .net crap is the solution to a whole raft of problems:
    > 1, The Win32 API is an ill considered pile of shite that's an absolute
    > bitch to code for.

    [snipped]
    Ha, Ha I like this summary, nice one.

    > 1, It implements a managed common language runtime. This gets over both
    > the VB-crap and C++-hard problems in one fell swoop. It add stuff like
    > garbage collection. The native language of .net is C# and there's not
    > all that much wrong with it - it' certainly a big improvement over VB
    > which is, basically, dead.

    You are not limited to writing managed CLR code in C# though. Visual
    studio .NET itself supports VB, C#, J# and indeed C++. There is also a
    growing list of languages that can now target CLR, including APL, COBOL,
    Python to name a few.

    > 3, Finally .net arrives with MS's famous hype machine, ensuring vast
    > tracts of developer mindshare.

    plus a very aggressive partnership program.

    > This .net crap is quite possibly the best thing that's happened to
    > Windows software developers ever. Provided they didn't want to do
    > anything too complicated, which is why there is now (and will be in the
    > future) acres of badly designed .net freeware and shareware; and hoardes
    > and hoardes of IIS+.net based "ecommerce" sites and similar horror shows
    > to fall over at the first sign of more than five concurrent users.

    What's new?????
    Bok, Oct 23, 2004
    #14
  15. Geronimo

    Bok Guest

    Bok wrote:
    > a technology called web services. A web service is essentially any
    > service deployed on the internet, the server side is called a producer
    > and the client is a consumer.

    Hmmm, I meant to say the server side is called a provider. I corrected
    myself in the example.

    Note that the Web Services architecture and protocols are not a
    proprietary Microsoft initiative. A motivating factor behind web
    services is to support interoperabilty between applications running on
    different hardware/software platforms and app frameworks.

    http://www.w3.org/TR/ws-arch/
    Bok, Oct 23, 2004
    #15
  16. It seems like Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:23:38 +1300 was when Geronimo
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >Why are all these Apps that need NET installed, when they have nothing at all
    >to do with a Network..


    Hi Roger,

    ..NET's nothing to do with a network as such, think of it as a software
    development platform. Just like you need PHP to run PHP scripts, you
    need the .NET framework to run programs that need the .NET framework.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Oct 23, 2004
    #16
  17. Geronimo

    Harry Guest

    Bok wrote:

    > Geronimo wrote:
    >
    > Re: What is this MS .NET Crap, and why do we need it..?
    > Good question. It covers a multitude of sins. It's primary objective, I
    > believe, is for building and deploying internet based applications using
    > a technology called web services. A web service is essentially any
    > service deployed on the internet, the server side is called a producer
    > and the client is a consumer.


    Wow! Sounds a lot more fantastic than client and server!!

    >
    > The PhotoSite application available from the PartnerPack link you
    > provided looks like an example of a web services application. It has a
    > client side part


    .... err, shouldn't that be a "consumer side part"?

    > that allows you to construct photo albums offline and
    > then you connect to what is most likely a web service provider to upload
    > your the albums. The longer term intent is to make money from the
    > service provided


    .... err, shouldn't that be "producer provided"?

    > rather than the application, which will probably be free.
    >
    >> Is this MS Answer to JAVA..?

    >
    > Not exactly, Java is a language as is Visual Basic, C++, C# or Python.
    > It's actually more comparable to J2EE (java 2 enterprise edition). J2EE
    > has been around longer - .NET and J2EE are competitive computational
    > platforms suitable for building distributed applications.


    "Computational platforms"? LOL. How about library or api.

    >
    > > I have noticed a number of Utilities now require this to be

    > installed > and these are not MS ones, so why am I being forced to use
    > some thing > I do not want..?
    >
    > There will be many more non MS .NET applications before long, not all
    > will be Web Services enabled since you can build any old app with .NET.


    .... err, shouldn't that be "Web Products" to be consistent?

    >
    > Your not forced to use it, just like your not forced to use a particular
    > web browser. However, in the same way that some web sites only work
    > properly with a particular browser some apps will only work if the .NET
    > platform is installed.
    Harry, Oct 24, 2004
    #17
  18. Dorado wrote:
    > Its like saying I don't want to install Windows but I want to run
    > IE.


    buy a mac... IE runs on mac.

    --
    Dave.net.nz
    reply addy is e
    nice! http://www.dave.net.nz/images/link.jpg
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Oct 24, 2004
    #18
  19. Geronimo

    Geronimo Guest

    On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:46:41 +1300, ZZzzz <> wrote:

    >Geronimo wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my Single user
    >> system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.
    >>

    >
    >It does that when you first install it - it adds an ASP parsing account
    >to your PC. Installing .NET SP1 (available through Windows Update)
    >removes the account again.
    >
    >As a side note, if you're installing it to use the bloated ATI Control
    >Center drivers don't bother. They work just the same as the regular
    >Catalysts but look 'prettier' (and at only TWICE the size) :-/
    >
    >
    >----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    >---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---




    I have tried loading the Latest NET 1.1, and I still get the Logon Icon and a
    very Large delay it getting to the desktop, more like 2 mins..

    I have removed this Crap again..

    No way to use MS Updates as its down..

    So how do I fix this MS Crap..?
    Geronimo, Oct 24, 2004
    #19
  20. Geronimo

    Gordon Guest

    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:51:02 +1300, Geronimo wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    > Yes I did have it installed once, but it required a logon, on my Single user
    > system, that was why it was removed many weeks ago.
    >
    > Is this MS Answer to JAVA..?
    >
    > I have noticed a number of Utilities now require this to be installed and
    > these are not MS ones, so why am I being forced to use some thing I do not
    > want..?
    >
    > And Why do we need it..?


    Hey, keep JAVA out of the same sentence as MS. JAVA is an across platform
    programming language. Azureus (a good Bittorrent programme) is written in
    Java and runs on any platform it can find the Java environment on.

    What the poster is satrting to understand is that MS has the dragnet out,
    it wants to capture as many wallets as it can. Okay all bussineses wish
    to do this, but the competition keeps them fair.
    Gordon, Oct 24, 2004
    #20
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