What is it with ubuntu?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Evil Bastard, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. Evil Bastard

    Evil Bastard Guest

    I haven't had a close look at that os.

    What is it about Ubuntu that its users clamour atop the rooftops to
    scream out its praises?

    What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian, RedHat,
    Gentoo etc haven't?

    What's its lineage?

    What's its packaging system? Portage-based? RPM-based? Deb-based?

    And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?

    --
    Cheers
    EB

    --

    One who is not a conservative by age 20 has no brain.
    One who is not a liberal by age 40 has no heart.
     
    Evil Bastard, Sep 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. Evil Bastard

    Chris Hope Guest

    Evil Bastard wrote:

    > I haven't had a close look at that os.
    >
    > What is it about Ubuntu that its users clamour atop the rooftops to
    > scream out its praises?
    >
    > What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian,
    > RedHat, Gentoo etc haven't?


    Dunno. Maybe sending people free CDs helps ;)

    > What's its lineage?


    It's closely related to Debian.

    > What's its packaging system? Portage-based? RPM-based? Deb-based?


    deb

    > And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?



    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz
     
    Chris Hope, Sep 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. Evil Bastard wrote:
    > I haven't had a close look at that os.


    theres the problem.

    > What is it about Ubuntu that its users clamour atop the rooftops to
    > scream out its praises?


    simple, clean and useful.

    > What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian, RedHat,
    > Gentoo etc haven't?


    less crap to deal with, it's the windows 2000 to windows XP, all the
    functionality that you need, without the bullshit pretty menus(unless
    you want them)

    > What's its lineage?


    debian

    > What's its packaging system? Portage-based? RPM-based? Deb-based?


    deb.

    > And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?


    not overly, but it is pretty damn good. give it another couple of versions.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 28, 2005
    #3
  4. Evil Bastard

    Adam Guest

    On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:40:12 +1200, Evil Bastard wrote:

    >What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian, RedHat,
    >Gentoo etc haven't?


    I spent a week or two trying out an arbitrary few of the hundreds of
    distros out there - Ubuntu, Mandrake, Linspire and RedHat9. I only
    heard about Ubuntu through this NG. I really didn't fancy spending the
    rest of my life comparing all the others <g>.

    My requirements were:

    1) Run on relatively low spec PCs.
    2) Easy install - no geeky stuff.
    3) Good hardware detection (network, video, audio, USB etc.).
    4) Easy update procedure - for kernel, GUI and apps.

    For me, Ubuntu came out first - by a long way - with RedHat9 the
    worst.

    >What's its lineage?
    >What's its packaging system? Portage-based? RPM-based? Deb-based?


    Debian based. Take a look at: http://www.ubuntu.com/

    >And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?


    With my old(er) PCs running on things like Win98, I simply can't
    afford to upgrade them all to XP. An easy translation from a Win32 GUI
    is essential - I'm the token geek of the family. The Open Office apps
    (plus the Gimp) are pretty well up to anything people are used to
    using in Windows ... for free.

    Linux GUI flavours are plentiful, but the version of Gnome that got
    installed by default by Ubuntu was perfectly fine - no worse for "Joe
    Windows SixPack's grandmother" than Windows - in some cases, even
    better.

    I've "played" with Linux since RH6, and Ubuntu 5.04 is the first
    distro I'd consider trying out on gran.

    I'm really not interested in the "holy war" - I use Linux and WinXP -
    plus FreeBSD for web work. Horses for courses.

    Adam.
     
    Adam, Sep 28, 2005
    #4
  5. Evil Bastard

    Adam Guest

    On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:20:31 +1200, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    >Evil Bastard wrote:
    >> And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?

    >
    >not overly, but it is pretty damn good. give it another couple of versions.


    5.10 (Breezy Badger) is imminent. Looks pretty good, judging by the
    specs on the preview. New OpenOffice, PHP5 etc.

    I was looking hard at it, as I needed to test a few functions in PHP5.
    In the end, I installed it [PHP5] on my 5.04 setup - thinking I could
    always wipe the HD ready for 5.10 if things didn't work out.

    PHP5 only took about 15 minutes to install/upgrade, so I loaded up my
    phpinfo() test page and was shocked to see it pop up - with everything
    running. I nearly choked on my coffee - I hadn't even touched any of
    the ini files.

    I'd tried doing it in RH9 - only to get into some horrific RPM
    Catch-22 dependency muddle that I just couldn't resolve.

    Adam.
     
    Adam, Sep 28, 2005
    #5
  6. Evil Bastard

    BrianM Guest

    On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:24:02 +1200, Adam wrote:

    > On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:40:12 +1200, Evil Bastard wrote:
    >
    >>What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian, RedHat,
    >>Gentoo etc haven't?

    >
    > I spent a week or two trying out an arbitrary few of the hundreds of
    > distros out there - Ubuntu, Mandrake, Linspire and RedHat9. I only heard
    > about Ubuntu through this NG. I really didn't fancy spending the rest of
    > my life comparing all the others <g>.
    >
    > My requirements were:
    >
    > 1) Run on relatively low spec PCs.
    > 2) Easy install - no geeky stuff.
    > 3) Good hardware detection (network, video, audio, USB etc.). 4) Easy
    > update procedure - for kernel, GUI and apps.
    >
    > For me, Ubuntu came out first - by a long way - with RedHat9 the worst.
    >
    >>What's its lineage?
    >>What's its packaging system? Portage-based? RPM-based? Deb-based?

    >
    > Debian based. Take a look at: http://www.ubuntu.com/
    >
    >>And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?

    >
    > With my old(er) PCs running on things like Win98, I simply can't afford
    > to upgrade them all to XP. An easy translation from a Win32 GUI is
    > essential - I'm the token geek of the family. The Open Office apps (plus
    > the Gimp) are pretty well up to anything people are used to using in
    > Windows ... for free.
    >
    > Linux GUI flavours are plentiful, but the version of Gnome that got
    > installed by default by Ubuntu was perfectly fine - no worse for "Joe
    > Windows SixPack's grandmother" than Windows - in some cases, even
    > better.
    >
    > I've "played" with Linux since RH6, and Ubuntu 5.04 is the first distro
    > I'd consider trying out on gran.
    >
    > I'm really not interested in the "holy war" - I use Linux and WinXP -
    > plus FreeBSD for web work. Horses for courses.
    >
    > Adam.


    aye aye aye
    I believe there is a KDE desktop version.
    I'm waiting for it to develop a bit more before switching from Mandrake.
    I've used Debian before and the apt package manager is the best.
    RH6 was my first intro to rpm hell after using Corel, which was resurrected as
    Debian based Xandros - they could have called in Phoenix Linux :=)

    cheers
    BrianM
     
    BrianM, Sep 28, 2005
    #6
  7. Evil Bastard

    Chris Hope Guest

    BrianM wrote:

    > On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:24:02 +1200, Adam wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:40:12 +1200, Evil Bastard wrote:
    >>
    >>>What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian,
    >>>RedHat, Gentoo etc haven't?

    >>
    >> I spent a week or two trying out an arbitrary few of the hundreds of
    >> distros out there - Ubuntu, Mandrake, Linspire and RedHat9. I only
    >> heard about Ubuntu through this NG. I really didn't fancy spending
    >> the rest of my life comparing all the others <g>.
    >>
    >> My requirements were:
    >>
    >> 1) Run on relatively low spec PCs.
    >> 2) Easy install - no geeky stuff.
    >> 3) Good hardware detection (network, video, audio, USB etc.). 4) Easy
    >> update procedure - for kernel, GUI and apps.
    >>
    >> For me, Ubuntu came out first - by a long way - with RedHat9 the
    >> worst.
    >>
    >>>What's its lineage?
    >>>What's its packaging system? Portage-based? RPM-based? Deb-based?

    >>
    >> Debian based. Take a look at: http://www.ubuntu.com/
    >>
    >>>And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?

    >>
    >> With my old(er) PCs running on things like Win98, I simply can't
    >> afford to upgrade them all to XP. An easy translation from a Win32
    >> GUI is essential - I'm the token geek of the family. The Open Office
    >> apps (plus the Gimp) are pretty well up to anything people are used
    >> to using in Windows ... for free.
    >>
    >> Linux GUI flavours are plentiful, but the version of Gnome that got
    >> installed by default by Ubuntu was perfectly fine - no worse for "Joe
    >> Windows SixPack's grandmother" than Windows - in some cases, even
    >> better.
    >>
    >> I've "played" with Linux since RH6, and Ubuntu 5.04 is the first
    >> distro I'd consider trying out on gran.
    >>
    >> I'm really not interested in the "holy war" - I use Linux and WinXP -
    >> plus FreeBSD for web work. Horses for courses.
    >>
    >> Adam.

    >
    > aye aye aye
    > I believe there is a KDE desktop version.


    Correct. It's called Kubuntu. http://www.kubuntu.org/

    > I'm waiting for it to develop a bit more before switching from
    > Mandrake. I've used Debian before and the apt package manager is the
    > best. RH6 was my first intro to rpm hell after using Corel, which was
    > resurrected as
    > Debian based Xandros - they could have called in Phoenix Linux :=)


    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz
     
    Chris Hope, Sep 28, 2005
    #7
  8. In article <dhcpkt$2kd$>,
    Chris Hope <> wrote:

    >Evil Bastard wrote:
    >
    >> What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian,
    >> RedHat, Gentoo etc haven't?

    >
    >Dunno. Maybe sending people free CDs helps ;)


    A humanist-type philosophy, plus backing from a philanthropic foundation
    set up by a very successful, and generous, businessman.

    Inviting pictures of varied groups of smiling people in the
    wallpaper--the graphical equivalent of "Don't Panic" in large friendly
    letters. :)
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 28, 2005
    #8
  9. Evil Bastard

    steve Guest

    Evil Bastard wrote:

    > I haven't had a close look at that os.
    >
    > What is it about Ubuntu that its users clamour atop the rooftops to
    > scream out its praises?


    It's Gnome-based GUI...and fairly up to date....and free.

    > What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian, RedHat,
    > Gentoo etc haven't?


    Not much....in fact, less. They still have a text install and no obvious way
    to resize and NTFS p0artition when installing. That last "mystery" has been
    solved for some time on most other major distros.....including Xandros,
    which I would rate far ahead of Ubuntu.

    But yuo have to pay for Xandros (Deluxe version, anyway).

    > What's its lineage?


    Debian.

    > What's its packaging system? Portage-based? RPM-based? Deb-based?


    Deb...though most distros can handle both rpms amd debs these days.

    Xandros does this easily.

    > And, how ready is it for Joe Windows SixPack's grandmother?


    It isn't, really......but for a free distro, it's pretty good.

    But if you want a GOOD Nana's-desktop distro, get Xandros or Linspire.

    I put my 69 yo mother on Xandros 3.0 a couple of months ago and she loves
    it.

    No viruses.
    No adware.
    No spyware.

    LOTS of software.
     
    steve, Sep 29, 2005
    #9
  10. Evil Bastard

    steve Guest

    Adam wrote:

    > I've "played" with Linux since RH6, and Ubuntu 5.04 is the first
    > distro I'd consider trying out on gran.


    You may want to have a look at Xandros 3.0.

    My 69yo mother likes it.

    I did the install....but she uses it every day.

    Having said that, she could probably have done the install herself -
    including allowing the install to re-size her Windows parititon.

    ......compared to Ubuntu which would have floored her completely with its
    text-based install, asking many questions she would not have understood at
    all.....and no obvious way offered to re-size her Windows partition.
     
    steve, Sep 29, 2005
    #10
  11. Hi there,

    BrianM wrote:
    > On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:24:02 +1200, Adam wrote:
    >
    >>I've "played" with Linux since RH6, and Ubuntu 5.04 is the first distro
    >>I'd consider trying out on gran.

    >
    > aye aye aye
    > I believe there is a KDE desktop version.


    Indeed there is as Chris Hope points out in another reply to your post,
    but you can also install KDE from the ubuntu deb repository quite
    easily...

    --
    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
    Anyone wishing to email me directly can remove the obvious
    spamblocker, and replace it with t p g <dot> c o m <dot> a u
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Sep 29, 2005
    #11
  12. Evil Bastard

    -=rjh=- Guest

    steve wrote:
    > Evil Bastard wrote:
    >


    >
    >>What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian, RedHat,
    >>Gentoo etc haven't?

    >
    >
    > Not much....in fact, less. They still have a text install and no obvious way
    > to resize and NTFS p0artition when installing. That last "mystery" has been
    > solved for some time on most other major distros.....including Xandros,
    > which I would rate far ahead of Ubuntu.


    To be fair to Ubuntu, existing partitions may not be a priority for them
    as Canonical is really aiming at using the distribution in schools in
    Africa. It is most likely to be installed fresh on used PCs.

    As far as what Ubuntu have done right - the distribution is controlled
    by Shuttleworth and Canonical and intended for a particular use that
    Shuttleworth had in mind. The contents of almost any distribution are a
    commodity these days, all Canonical has done is build a distribution
    that they can control and use to support their own views about open
    source and education. I think they've done (and continue to do) an
    excellent job.

    It doesn't hurt that they are extremely generous with the physical
    distribution of the product - I don't think anyone who has asked for one
    free CDROM has received less than 12!

    And none of this would have happened if the US had been sensible about
    exporting encryption.
     
    -=rjh=-, Sep 29, 2005
    #12
  13. Evil Bastard

    steve Guest

    -=rjh=- wrote:

    > steve wrote:
    >> Evil Bastard wrote:
    >>

    >
    >>
    >>>What has Ubuntu done right that Mandr(ake|iva), Knoppix, Debian, RedHat,
    >>>Gentoo etc haven't?

    >>
    >>
    >> Not much....in fact, less. They still have a text install and no obvious
    >> way to resize and NTFS p0artition when installing. That last "mystery"
    >> has been solved for some time on most other major distros.....including
    >> Xandros, which I would rate far ahead of Ubuntu.

    >
    > To be fair to Ubuntu, existing partitions may not be a priority for them
    > as Canonical is really aiming at using the distribution in schools in
    > Africa. It is most likely to be installed fresh on used PCs.


    Fair enough....but this deficiency effectively disqualifies Ubuntu for
    install by Linux newbies with existing Windows PCs.

    > As far as what Ubuntu have done right - the distribution is controlled
    > by Shuttleworth and Canonical and intended for a particular use that
    > Shuttleworth had in mind. The contents of almost any distribution are a
    > commodity these days, all Canonical has done is build a distribution
    > that they can control and use to support their own views about open
    > source and education. I think they've done (and continue to do) an
    > excellent job.


    I agree....and how successful is determined both by the creator and - quite
    separately - by fitness for purpose in the eye of would-be installer. :)

    Each with his/her own measure of success.

    > It doesn't hurt that they are extremely generous with the physical
    > distribution of the product - I don't think anyone who has asked for one
    > free CDROM has received less than 12!


    LOL!

    > And none of this would have happened if the US had been sensible about
    > exporting encryption.


    Fair enough.
     
    steve, Sep 29, 2005
    #13
  14. Evil Bastard

    shannon Guest

    steve wrote:

    >
    >
    > Fair enough....but this deficiency effectively disqualifies Ubuntu for
    > install by Linux newbies with existing Windows PCs.
    >
    >

    Except for the ones that use Partition Magic or any of the LiveCDs which
    have QTParted.
     
    shannon, Sep 29, 2005
    #14
  15. Evil Bastard

    Adam Guest

    On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:29:07 +1200, steve wrote:

    >Adam wrote:
    >
    >> I've "played" with Linux since RH6, and Ubuntu 5.04 is the first
    >> distro I'd consider trying out on gran.

    >
    >You may want to have a look at Xandros 3.0.
    >
    >My 69yo mother likes it.
    >
    >I did the install....but she uses it every day.


    Yay! I may just give it a go then - as I do actually have a "gran"
    that is meant to be "benefitting" from all this :)

    >Having said that, she could probably have done the install herself -
    >including allowing the install to re-size her Windows parititon.
    >
    >.....compared to Ubuntu which would have floored her completely with its
    >text-based install, asking many questions she would not have understood at
    >all.....and no obvious way offered to re-size her Windows partition.


    Hmmm ... point taken ... I'd only been playing with "clean" (but
    *old*!!) PCs - and just kept hitting the default yes/no prompt
    whenever it showed. I was sort of interested to see how *it* set
    itself up ... before I knackered it totally by trying to improve it
    <gg>.

    Adam.
     
    Adam, Sep 29, 2005
    #15
  16. Evil Bastard

    Gordon Guest

    On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:40:12 +1200, Evil Bastard wrote:

    > I haven't had a close look at that os.
    >
    > What is it about Ubuntu that its users clamour atop the rooftops to
    > scream out its praises?
    >

    Its new, and thus novel, and some would say hyped.

    Andy would say its getting its 15 mins of fame.

    Personally, like all media generated dust, it will settle. Time is a good
    judge.

    Nevertheless, it may fit you like a glove so try it. Open Source is about
    freedom and thus choice.
     
    Gordon, Sep 29, 2005
    #16
  17. Evil Bastard

    Gordon Guest

    On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:24:02 +1200, Adam wrote:

    > My requirements were:
    >
    > 1) Run on relatively low spec PCs.


    Okay no problem espically if you want text only.

    > 2) Easy install - no geeky stuff.


    Please explain, and then compare to MSW(indows)

    > 3) Good hardware detection (network, video, audio, USB etc.).


    Ms Penguin, has just come in. She says that she will talk to anyone but
    they are rather $$$ slow to talk to her.

    > 4) Easy update procedure - for kernel, GUI and apps.


    Get the next version and install. See even MS rules in some ways.

    Thought

    So a low spec PC has USB?

    All relative I guess.
     
    Gordon, Sep 29, 2005
    #17
  18. Evil Bastard

    Gordon Guest

    On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:21:20 +1200, Adam wrote:

    [slight snip]

    > I'd only been playing with "clean" (but
    > *old*!!) PCs - and just kept hitting the default yes/no prompt
    > whenever it showed. I was sort of interested to see how *it* set
    > itself up ... before I knackered it totally by trying to improve it
    > <gg>.


    Oh you naughty boy! ;-)
     
    Gordon, Sep 29, 2005
    #18
  19. Evil Bastard

    Gordon Guest

    On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:53:19 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > A humanist-type philosophy, plus backing from a philanthropic foundation
    > set up by a very successful, and generous, businessman.


    One sentence, and several commas. Yes! Nevertheless one has to wonder
    about the generousity/agenda of this businessman.
     
    Gordon, Sep 29, 2005
    #19
  20. Evil Bastard

    Adam Guest

    On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:42:20 +1200, Gordon wrote:

    >On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:53:19 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> A humanist-type philosophy, plus backing from a philanthropic foundation
    >> set up by a very successful, and generous, businessman.

    >
    >One sentence, and several commas. Yes! Nevertheless one has to wonder
    >about the generousity/agenda of this businessman.


    I thought the same thing when Skype first came out ... wow! ... a
    great little *free* tool. I'm not sure whether there's a "catch" (for
    us end-users), but it certainly made a fair sale <g>.

    Adam.
     
    Adam, Sep 29, 2005
    #20
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