what is good software to log keystrokes on my computer?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by admyc@hotmail.com, Aug 26, 2006.

  1. Notan Guest

    Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    > On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:26:51 -0600, Notan
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >What's your definition of spyware?

    >
    > Software which discloses information to someone
    > other than the party who installed it.


    Isn't that exactly what a keystroke/keylogger program does?

    Notan
     
    Notan, Aug 26, 2006
    #21
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  2. Jim Watt Guest

    On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:27:32 -0600, Notan
    <> wrote:

    >Jim Watt wrote:
    >>
    >> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:26:51 -0600, Notan
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >What's your definition of spyware?

    >>
    >> Software which discloses information to someone
    >> other than the party who installed it.

    >
    >Isn't that exactly what a keystroke/keylogger program does?


    Yes, thats why I questioned it being 'spyware'

    However, I think its appropriate to call it unwanted software
    as its probably unwanted by the user of the machine although
    perhaps not by the owner depending on the circumstances.


    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Aug 26, 2006
    #22
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  3. Guest

    It's a COMMERCIAL MONITORING PROGRAM. It cannot be installed remotely
    or by a person who doesn't have full access to target computer. Guess
    AV vendors aren't fair enough to classify it as malicious spyware or
    "unwanted program".

    By the way, please never think that it's detected by everything: if to
    install monitoring agent only, no security software (listed below or
    any other) will detect it.



    David H. Lipman wrote:
    > From: <>
    >
    > | try PC Activity Monitor:
    > | http://download.softsecurity.com
    > |
    >
    >
    > BitDefender 7.2 08.26.2006 Spyware.Pcacme.A
    > Fortinet 2.77.0.0 08.25.2006 Spy/PCAcme
    > Kaspersky 4.0.2.24 08.26.2006 not-a-virus:Monitor.Win32.PCAcme.64
    > McAfee 4838 08.25.2006 potentially unwanted program Spyware-PCAcme
    > NOD32v2 1.1724 08.24.2006 Win32/Spy.PCAcme
    >
    >
    > --
    > Dave
    > http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
    > http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
     
    , Aug 28, 2006
    #23
  4. ArtDent Guest

    On 26-Aug-2006, Notan <> wrote:

    > It's an invasion of privacy.
    > It's no different than renting a room to someone, then spying on them.


    True, if the OP was renting his comp out, but if it is for when a child is
    using it, then a parent has every right to keep 'tabs' on what they do.
    Whether they tell them ahead of time or not. Which is almost the _only_
    time a keylogger is alright in my personal opinion.
    --
    We apologize for the inconvenience
     
    ArtDent, Aug 28, 2006
    #24
  5. Guest

    Rick Merrill wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
    > >
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>Hi
    > >>>
    > >>>I was just wondering if there is any simple software out there that I
    > >>>can install on my computer (PC) so that I can record the keystrokes that
    > >>>are made on it
    > >>
    > >><http://ntsecurity.nu/toolbox/klogger/>
    > >>
    > >>>as I want to discover the password that someone who uses my computer uses
    > >>>for their hotmail account.
    > >>
    > >>Well, such a trivial task doesn't require any keylogger at all.

    > >
    > >
    > > Why doesn't it require a keylogger, how else can I do it?
    > >
    > > A
    > >

    >
    > You are trying to steal someone else's password and you came here for help?


    No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!
     
    , Aug 28, 2006
    #25
  6. Notan Guest

    ArtDent wrote:
    >
    > On 26-Aug-2006, Notan <> wrote:
    >
    > > It's an invasion of privacy.
    > > It's no different than renting a room to someone, then spying on them.

    >
    > True, if the OP was renting his comp out, but if it is for when a child is
    > using it, then a parent has every right to keep 'tabs' on what they do.
    > Whether they tell them ahead of time or not. Which is almost the _only_
    > time a keylogger is alright in my personal opinion.


    Did you read the OP's latest?

    "You cannot steal something from someone if you are not also depriving them
    of that thing, and as the person will not lose their password by me knowing
    it too I have not stolen it!"

    Notan
     
    Notan, Aug 28, 2006
    #26
  7. From: <>

    | It's a COMMERCIAL MONITORING PROGRAM. It cannot be installed remotely
    | or by a person who doesn't have full access to target computer. Guess
    | AV vendors aren't fair enough to classify it as malicious spyware or
    | "unwanted program".
    |
    | By the way, please never think that it's detected by everything: if to
    | install monitoring agent only, no security software (listed below or
    | any other) will detect it.
    |

    No, but it will be. It has been submitted :)

    --
    Dave
    http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
    http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
     
    David H. Lipman, Aug 28, 2006
    #27
  8. Rick Merrill Guest

    wrote:
    > Rick Merrill wrote:
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Hi
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I was just wondering if there is any simple software out there that I
    >>>>>can install on my computer (PC) so that I can record the keystrokes that
    >>>>>are made on it
    >>>>
    >>>><http://ntsecurity.nu/toolbox/klogger/>
    >>>>
    >>>>>as I want to discover the password that someone who uses my computer uses
    >>>>>for their hotmail account.
    >>>>
    >>>>Well, such a trivial task doesn't require any keylogger at all.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Why doesn't it require a keylogger, how else can I do it?
    >>>
    >>>A
    >>>

    >>
    >>You are trying to steal someone else's password and you came here for help?

    >
    >
    > No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    > also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    > their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!
    >


    You are so full of shit I'll bet your eyes are brown. Ploink!
     
    Rick Merrill, Aug 28, 2006
    #28
  9. Rick Merrill Guest

    wrote:

    > Rick Merrill wrote:
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Hi
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I was just wondering if there is any simple software out there that I
    >>>>>can install on my computer (PC) so that I can record the keystrokes that
    >>>>>are made on it
    >>>>
    >>>><http://ntsecurity.nu/toolbox/klogger/>
    >>>>
    >>>>>as I want to discover the password that someone who uses my computer uses
    >>>>>for their hotmail account.
    >>>>
    >>>>Well, such a trivial task doesn't require any keylogger at all.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Why doesn't it require a keylogger, how else can I do it?
    >>>
    >>>A
    >>>

    >>
    >>You are trying to steal someone else's password and you came here for help?

    >
    >
    > No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    > also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    > their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!
    >


    Never heard of "intelectual property"?

    Oh, for you that's an oxymoron!
     
    Rick Merrill, Aug 29, 2006
    #29
  10. ArtDent wrote:

    > On 26-Aug-2006, Notan <> wrote:
    >
    >> It's an invasion of privacy.
    >> It's no different than renting a room to someone, then spying on them.

    >
    > True, if the OP was renting his comp out, but if it is for when a child is
    > using it, then a parent has every right to keep 'tabs' on what they do.
    > Whether they tell them ahead of time or not. Which is almost the _only_
    > time a keylogger is alright in my personal opinion.


    What about intrusion detection? What about security research?

    I have a daemon that logs all key-strokes and writes it to a file that is
    only readable as an admin. I read it from time to time. I draw conclusion
    about my very own behaviour, and alos about those who use my computer.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Aug 29, 2006
    #30
  11. Rick Merrill wrote:

    >>>You are trying to steal someone else's password and you came here for help?

    >>
    >> No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    >> also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    >> their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!
    >>

    >
    > Never heard of "intelectual property"?
    >
    > Oh, for you that's an oxymoron!


    It is. It's a misleading analogy to material property imposed as a
    propaganda term by those who want to control our thoughts. Unlike material,
    ideas and generally information is non-exclusive and can be copied, so
    hardly any reasonable restrictions based on the properties of material
    objects are applicable to immaterial objects.

    Thus, in Germany we prefer the terms "immaterial goods" and "artworks".

    Anyway, why do you think that copyright is applicable to passwords?
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Aug 29, 2006
    #31
  12. David H. Lipman wrote:

    > From: <>
    >
    >| It's a COMMERCIAL MONITORING PROGRAM. It cannot be installed remotely
    >| or by a person who doesn't have full access to target computer. Guess
    >| AV vendors aren't fair enough to classify it as malicious spyware or
    >| "unwanted program".
    >|
    >| By the way, please never think that it's detected by everything: if to
    >| install monitoring agent only, no security software (listed below or
    >| any other) will detect it.
    >|
    >
    > No, but it will be. It has been submitted :)


    Wonderful nonsense. Isn't it already stupid enough that three scanners
    don't correctly flag it as a legitimate, but also often misused software?

    Never minding that McAfee detects NMap as such a riskware, whereas it
    doesn't detect their very own port scanner software product?
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Aug 29, 2006
    #32
  13. Notan Guest

    wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    > also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    > their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!


    Just so we're clear, if someone takes my car during the night, while
    I'm sleeping, and returns it before I awake, it's not stealing?

    Notan
     
    Notan, Aug 29, 2006
    #33
  14. Jim Watt Guest

    On 28 Aug 2006 14:48:07 -0700, wrote:

    >No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    >also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    >their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!


    The 'thing' is called privacy.

    You wish to permanently deprive the owner of it, which is
    commonly known as theft.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Aug 29, 2006
    #34
  15. nemo_outis Guest

    Rick Merrill <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    >>>You are trying to steal someone else's password and you came here for
    >>>help?

    >>
    >>
    >> No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    >> also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    >> their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!
    >>

    >
    > You are so full of shit I'll bet your eyes are brown. Ploink!




    Sorry, he may be an privacy-invading asshole but he does understand what
    constitutes "theft" in the traditional legal sense. A key element of theft
    (larceny) is "asportation" - the carrying off of the goods depriving the
    rightful owner/possessor of them.

    There is a tendency in common speech to label many activities that don't
    have the element of asportation as theft: identity "theft," "theft" of
    intellectual property and so on. Such non-traditional extensions of the
    meaning of "theft" have even (to the detriment of the precision of the
    English language) crept into some lawmakers' statutes.

    The lawmakers may just be using the extended meaning of "theft"
    unreflectingly and sloppily, but many of the corporate types who hang
    labels of "piracy" or "theft" on what is only copyright infringement do so
    very consciously, hoping to piggyback on most folks sense of moral
    objection to theft in the traditional sense, blurring distinctions.

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Aug 29, 2006
    #35
  16. Nomen Nescio Guest

    Notan wrote:

    > wrote:
    > >
    > > <snip>
    > >
    > > No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    > > also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    > > their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!

    >
    > Just so we're clear, if someone takes my car during the night, while
    > I'm sleeping, and returns it before I awake, it's not stealing?


    Ironically enough it's not. At least not in most US jurisdictions, and
    probably many others including the US military UCMJ. If the thieves
    are caught before they return the vehicle they might be charged with
    theft, but even if they're able to prove they were on their way to
    return your car the official charges will likely read something like
    "Wrongful Appropriation of a Motor Vehicle".

    A completely different offense from stealing. :)
     
    Nomen Nescio, Aug 29, 2006
    #36
  17. Notan Guest

    Nomen Nescio wrote:
    >
    > Notan wrote:
    >
    > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > <snip>
    > > >
    > > > No I am not. You cannot steal something from someone if you are not
    > > > also depriving them of that thing, and as the person will not lose
    > > > their password by me knowing it too I have not stolen it!

    > >
    > > Just so we're clear, if someone takes my car during the night, while
    > > I'm sleeping, and returns it before I awake, it's not stealing?

    >
    > Ironically enough it's not. At least not in most US jurisdictions, and
    > probably many others including the US military UCMJ. If the thieves
    > are caught before they return the vehicle they might be charged with
    > theft, but even if they're able to prove they were on their way to
    > return your car the official charges will likely read something like
    > "Wrongful Appropriation of a Motor Vehicle".
    >
    > A completely different offense from stealing. :)


    So, this is incorrect?

    http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/stealing

    Notan
     
    Notan, Aug 29, 2006
    #37
  18. ArtDent Guest

    On 28-Aug-2006, Sebastian Gottschalk <> wrote:

    > if it is for when a child is
    > > using it, then a parent has every right to keep 'tabs' on what they
    > > do.
    > > Whether they tell them ahead of time or not. Which is almost the
    > > _only_
    > > time a keylogger is alright in my personal opinion.

    >
    > What about intrusion detection? What about security research?


    I did say 'almost'. These are obvious legitimate uses also. Although I
    am somewhat confused how a keylogger is supposed to help in intrusion
    detection. Intrusion = coming in from 'outside'.

    > I have a daemon that logs all key-strokes and writes it to a file that
    > is
    > only readable as an admin. I read it from time to time. I draw
    > conclusion
    > about my very own behaviour, and alos about those who use my computer.


    The question here would be, do those (others) that use your computer know
    that this logging is going on?
    If yes, where you (or your employer) have a specific _written_ policy,
    that each user is at least 'supposed' to read and know, then no problem.
    If no, where you (or your employer) have implemented this and not told the
    users, well... now you are getting into a very gray area indeed, this
    exact type of situation is working its way thru several court systems in
    the world right now.
    --
    We apologize for the inconvenience
     
    ArtDent, Aug 29, 2006
    #38
  19. Jim Watt Guest

    Jim Watt, Aug 29, 2006
    #39
  20. ArtDent wrote:

    > I did say 'almost'. These are obvious legitimate uses also. Although I
    > am somewhat confused how a keylogger is supposed to help in intrusion
    > detection. Intrusion = coming in from 'outside'.


    Yeah, like keystrokes entered on the keyboard.

    >> I have a daemon that logs all key-strokes and writes it to a file that
    >> is only readable as an admin. I read it from time to time. I draw
    >> conclusion about my very own behaviour, and alos about those who use my
    >> computer.

    >
    > The question here would be, do those (others) that use your computer know
    > that this logging is going on?
    > If yes, where you (or your employer) have a specific _written_ policy,
    > that each user is at least 'supposed' to read and know, then no problem.
    > If no, where you (or your employer) have implemented this and not told the
    > users, well...


    There are no real "users", just "guests" on my system. I guess they should
    understand that my system can do whatever it wants, until explicitly stated
    otherwise. It might even do something I don't know, and I don't dare to
    make any real guarantees that it doesn't.

    I'm also logging network traffic from time to time, process starts and ends
    are written to the syslog, usage (and failures) of system privileges are
    logged as well.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Aug 29, 2006
    #40
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