What is 3D Digital Noise Reduction?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Brian, Jan 2, 2005.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.

    Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?

    Regards Brian
    Brian, Jan 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. Brian

    Mike Kohary Guest

    Brian wrote:
    > My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    > There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.
    >
    > Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?


    It sounds like marketing gobbledegoop. I wouldn't worry about it.

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Mike Kohary mike at kohary dot com http://www.kohary.com

    Karma Photography: http://www.karmaphotography.com
    Seahawks Historical Database: http://www.kohary.com/seahawks
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Mike Kohary, Jan 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. Brian

    Brian Guest

    "Mike Kohary" <> wrote:

    >Brian wrote:
    >> My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    >> There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.
    >>
    >> Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?

    >
    >It sounds like marketing gobbledegoop. I wouldn't worry about it.


    It's an adjustment on the DVD Recorder. That's why I'm keen to know
    more about it.

    Regards Brian
    Brian, Jan 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Brian

    Will Dormann Guest

    Brian wrote:
    > My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    > There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.


    3D noise reduction generally refers to noise reduction that operates
    both spatially and temporally. That gives you your 3 dimensions.


    --
    -WD
    Will Dormann, Jan 2, 2005
    #4
  5. Brian

    Mike Kohary Guest

    Brian wrote:
    > "Mike Kohary" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Brian wrote:
    >>> My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    >>> There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.
    >>>
    >>> Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?

    >>
    >> It sounds like marketing gobbledegoop. I wouldn't worry about it.

    >
    > It's an adjustment on the DVD Recorder. That's why I'm keen to know
    > more about it.


    Hm, experiment with the setting on its lowest and highest, then, and see
    what difference it makes to the sound. I've never heard of it, so sorry not
    to be of more help.

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Mike Kohary mike at kohary dot com http://www.kohary.com

    Karma Photography: http://www.karmaphotography.com
    Seahawks Historical Database: http://www.kohary.com/seahawks
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Mike Kohary, Jan 2, 2005
    #5
  6. Mike Kohary wrote:

    > Hm, experiment with the setting on its lowest and highest, then, and see
    > what difference it makes to the sound


    It's for video, here's a link and some basic text...

    http://www.digital-rapids.com/Products_DemoRoom.html

    "Typical 3D noise reduction as used by most products compares images in sequence over a
    predetermined period of time, blending the images between fields or frames. The simplified theory is
    that by blending data over time you can reduce the overall noise content of the resulting image.
    This is used in the film industry to remove film grain from blue or green screen shots. Successive
    samples of the same blue or green screen scene are blended together which will effectively cancel
    out the noise found in any individual frame. The problem with typical noise reduction algorithms is
    that if there is any motion in the individual scene you will get a motion blur (trails) artifact in
    the processed frame. One answer to this is to limit the blending process to a specific range of
    frames or to restart the process every few frames. This is very visible in the noise reduction found
    in the some software codecs. Every few frames it will reset and the noise will suddenly appear only
    to disappear several frames later, then the process starts over again.

    The DRC-Stream hardware uses a very advanced form of temporal noise processing called motion
    adaptive 3D noise reduction. Motion adaptive 3D noise reduction combines the information in multiple
    frames of video on a pixel by pixel basis to decide how much processing is applied to each pixel in
    the final frame. Because each pixel is calculated individually the result will be more precise noise
    reduction with less motion blurring artifacts than would otherwise be normally possible."


    Darrel :)
    Darrel Christenson, Jan 2, 2005
    #6
  7. "Brian" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    > There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the
    > setting.
    >
    > Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?
    >
    > Regards Brian



    Is this a playback feature, or a recording feature, or both?

    My Panasonic DVDS-55 player has this feature.

    Here is what the manual says:

    3D-NR (0 to i4)
    "Reduces overall noise."

    Video noise is the graininess that occurs when playing source material
    which is less than perfect.

    The basic effect is most noticeable on poorly mastered material, or
    material which has a high compression ratio. Newer DVDs with
    well-restored, well-mastered material recorded at low compression and
    with high bit rates will benefit least from this feature.

    If yours is a playback feature, you can check out the settings like
    this:

    Find a variety of disks which have scenes focusing on an actor in the
    foreground while there is deep background information behind him or her.
    The 3D-NR will only affect the very mild "raindrops on a window pane"
    look of these background items. To further exaggerate the raindrop
    effect, turn up the sharpness on your TV.

    Some examples of good test scenes are the castle walls in _Elizabeth_
    and interior office walls in _LA Confidential_. Also, old source
    material such as the original Superman cartoons and the 1937 version of
    _A Star is Born_ will benefit from the reduction in graininess. While
    the disk is playing, switch the 3D-NR back and forth between OFF and the
    other 3D-NR settings and you will see the grainy background images go
    from rough to smooth and back again. Of course, when the sharpness
    controls are reset to normal positions the effect will not be so
    noticeable, but it will be visible.
    One-Shot Scot, Jan 2, 2005
    #7
  8. In article <>,
    Brian <> writes:
    > My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    > There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.
    >
    > Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?
    >

    The 3D DNR is very helpful when converting from noisy (usually
    analog) video sources into MPEG2. MPEG2 is the encoding method used
    on DVDs, but is incapable of effectively
    dealing with noisy video without introducing lots of artifacts (or
    requiring more payload/taking more space on disk.) A
    proper 3D DNR scheme can mitigate alot of the noise that MPEG2 really
    hates to deal with.

    If you provide a nice, relatively noise free signal to an MPEG2 encoder
    you might be able to record more time onto a given disk (because the
    MPEG2 encoder won't have to try to process the pseudo-random noise.)

    John
    John S. Dyson, Jan 2, 2005
    #8
  9. Brian

    GMAN Guest

    In article <cr7lfm$ehu$>, "Mike Kohary" <> wrote:
    >Brian wrote:
    >> My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    >> There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.
    >>
    >> Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?

    >
    >It sounds like marketing gobbledegoop. I wouldn't worry about it.
    >

    Its not gobbledygoop, its a gaussian noise reduction filter
    GMAN, Jan 2, 2005
    #9
  10. Brian

    luminos Guest

    "GMAN" <> wrote in message
    news:cr8gad$pcr$...
    > In article <cr7lfm$ehu$>, "Mike Kohary" <>
    > wrote:
    >>Brian wrote:
    >>> My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    >>> There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.
    >>>
    >>> Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?

    >>
    >>It sounds like marketing gobbledegoop. I wouldn't worry about it.
    >>

    > Its not gobbledygoop, its a gaussian noise reduction filter


    Ummmm Gaussian noise.....HA HA HA
    luminos, Jan 2, 2005
    #10
  11. Brian

    RichA Guest

    On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:55:28 GMT, Darrel Christenson
    <> wrote:

    >Mike Kohary wrote:
    >
    >> Hm, experiment with the setting on its lowest and highest, then, and see
    >> what difference it makes to the sound

    >
    >It's for video, here's a link and some basic text...
    >
    > http://www.digital-rapids.com/Products_DemoRoom.html
    >
    >"Typical 3D noise reduction as used by most products compares images in sequence over a
    >predetermined period of time, blending the images between fields or frames. The simplified theory is
    >that by blending data over time you can reduce the overall noise content of the resulting image.
    >This is used in the film industry to remove film grain from blue or green screen shots. Successive
    >samples of the same blue or green screen scene are blended together which will effectively cancel
    >out the noise found in any individual frame. The problem with typical noise reduction algorithms is
    >that if there is any motion in the individual scene you will get a motion blur (trails) artifact in
    >the processed frame. One answer to this is to limit the blending process to a specific range of
    >frames or to restart the process every few frames. This is very visible in the noise reduction found
    >in the some software codecs. Every few frames it will reset and the noise will suddenly appear only
    >to disappear several frames later, then the process starts over again.
    >
    >The DRC-Stream hardware uses a very advanced form of temporal noise processing called motion
    >adaptive 3D noise reduction. Motion adaptive 3D noise reduction combines the information in multiple
    >frames of video on a pixel by pixel basis to decide how much processing is applied to each pixel in
    >the final frame. Because each pixel is calculated individually the result will be more precise noise
    >reduction with less motion blurring artifacts than would otherwise be normally possible."
    >
    >
    >Darrel :)


    Same thing has been done in digital photography with still images for
    some time. Frame stacking.
    -Rich
    RichA, Jan 2, 2005
    #11
  12. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Brian <> wrote:

    >My DVD Recorder offers 3D Digital Noise Reduction.
    >There is no detail in the manual about this feature and the setting.
    >
    >Can someone please tell me what this is and how I would use it?
    >
    >Regards Brian


    Thanks for all the replies.
    When recording I have the option of a 3-D Y/C filter but I've just
    found out that this is for NTSC and I record in PAL.
    The other option is VNR (video noise reduction) that can be turned on
    or off) I can't see a reason for turning this filter off so maybe the
    picture is sharper if this was turned off .
    The other adjustments are for Detail, White AGC, White level, Black
    level, Hue, and Chroma level.

    On playback there are more adjustment levels for noise:
    YNR noise reduction in the brightness component.
    CNR noise reduction in the color component
    QNR noise reduction in the block noise
    Other adjustments are for Detail, White level, Block Level, Hue, and
    Chroma level.

    It's pleasing to have extra feature so you can have control over the
    appearance of the picture, but I wish there was more information about
    the adjustment of these controls especially the noise filters.

    What I've been trying to do is to record video in a lower setting such
    as the 4 hour mode and trying to adjust the filters to reduce noise in
    the picture. It's difficult to find a suitable setting.

    Is there a lot of difference between the YNR and the CNR filter?
    I have adjustments of Off and a level of 1 to 8 (8 is max).
    Is there a problem with the picture if I set both YNR and CNR to
    maximum setting?
    Also if I set QNR to maximum (Off, 1-8) setting would there be a
    problem with the picture?

    It's not a;lways easy to see the effect these filters have on the
    picture.

    I'd welcome any help

    Regards Brian
    Brian, Jan 3, 2005
    #12
  13. "RichA" wrote ...
    > Same thing has been done in digital photography with still
    > images for some time. Frame stacking.


    It was the principle behind the "Snappy" video capture dongle.
    They could get significantly higher resolution still images out
    of "ordinary" NTSC video cameras as long as the image was
    stationary.
    Richard Crowley, Jan 3, 2005
    #13
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