What Happened??

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Steve Meyerson, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.

    Wha happen?
    Steve Meyerson, Apr 17, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Steve Meyerson wrote:

    > It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    > spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >
    > Wha happen?


    Google Groups happened.

    You want no spam? Filter out Google Groups. Since your news client is
    incapable of filtering on the Message-ID header, see this for some tips:

    http://improve-usenet.org/filters_ex2.html

    In 40tude Dialog, it is a simple matter of adding this to the score
    file:

    [*]
    !markread Message-ID googlegroups.com

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Apr 17, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Thanks for your response. I downloaded Hampster Playground from the
    URL you posted, glanced at its .chm file, but it looks a bit much for
    my "single" computer and probably my tech savvy.

    Not sure what 40tude Dialog is. No hit from Google.

    Steve



    On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:20:12 -0400, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:

    >Steve Meyerson wrote:
    >
    >> It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    >> spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >>
    >> Wha happen?

    >
    >Google Groups happened.
    >
    >You want no spam? Filter out Google Groups. Since your news client is
    >incapable of filtering on the Message-ID header, see this for some tips:
    >
    >http://improve-usenet.org/filters_ex2.html
    >
    >In 40tude Dialog, it is a simple matter of adding this to the score
    >file:
    >
    >[*]
    >!markread Message-ID googlegroups.com
    Steve Meyerson, Apr 17, 2008
    #3
  4. Also tried the newsgp filter on my Agent newsreader. Gave me a message
    telling me it filtered the news group, but no other info. I have no
    idea what it really did, if anything.

    Steve


    On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:20:12 -0400, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:

    >Steve Meyerson wrote:
    >
    >> It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    >> spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >>
    >> Wha happen?

    >
    >Google Groups happened.
    >
    >You want no spam? Filter out Google Groups. Since your news client is
    >incapable of filtering on the Message-ID header, see this for some tips:
    >
    >http://improve-usenet.org/filters_ex2.html
    >
    >In 40tude Dialog, it is a simple matter of adding this to the score
    >file:
    >
    >[*]
    >!markread Message-ID googlegroups.com
    Steve Meyerson, Apr 17, 2008
    #4
  5. Steve Meyerson

    Steven Guest

    The amount of spam has gone insane on here , after I added google servers to
    the block list they still somehow get in, I guess that's the crappyness of
    outlook express as a newsgroup reader.im tempted to just quit coming here
    all together.

    Steve

    "Steve Meyerson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Also tried the newsgp filter on my Agent newsreader. Gave me a message
    > telling me it filtered the news group, but no other info. I have no
    > idea what it really did, if anything.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    > On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:20:12 -0400, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Steve Meyerson wrote:
    >>
    >>> It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    >>> spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >>>
    >>> Wha happen?

    >>
    >>Google Groups happened.
    >>
    >>You want no spam? Filter out Google Groups. Since your news client is
    >>incapable of filtering on the Message-ID header, see this for some tips:
    >>
    >>http://improve-usenet.org/filters_ex2.html
    >>
    >>In 40tude Dialog, it is a simple matter of adding this to the score
    >>file:
    >>
    >>[*]
    >>!markread Message-ID googlegroups.com

    >
    Steven, Apr 17, 2008
    #5
  6. Steve Meyerson wrote:

    > Thanks for your response. I downloaded Hampster Playground from the
    > URL you posted, glanced at its .chm file, but it looks a bit much for
    > my "single" computer and probably my tech savvy.


    I don't use (or need) that so someone else will need to answer.

    > Not sure what 40tude Dialog is. No hit from Google.


    Huh?

    <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=40tude+dialog&btnG=Google+Search>
    "Results 1 - 10 of about 51,400 for 40tude dialog"

    The homepage: http://40tude.com/dialog/
    A good FAQ: http://dialog.datalist.org/

    Please don't top-post. Thanks for your consideration.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Apr 17, 2008
    #6
  7. Steve Meyerson

    Guest

    Steve Meyerson <> wrote:

    >It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    >spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >
    >Wha happen?


    Good chance your Mom might be sending them.

    It's a combo of a large botnet, and the Gmail captcha being
    cracked/hacked
    --

    May contain...
    http://www.mofaha.com/b3ta/tracesofpeanuts.jpg
    , Apr 17, 2008
    #7
  8. Steve Meyerson

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2008-04-17, <> wrote:
    > Steve Meyerson <> wrote:
    >
    >>It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    >>spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >>
    >>Wha happen?

    >
    > Good chance your Mom might be sending them.
    >
    > It's a combo of a large botnet, and the Gmail captcha being
    > cracked/hacked


    I suspect the 'captcha' thing has not been cracked or hacked; rather that
    time-rich humans with access to internet cafés or school networks or
    public libraries (or even the spammers own set-up) can be induced at small
    expense to sit there for an hour or so at a time creating (jointly and
    cumulatively) as many new Google/Yahoo/whatever accounts as anyone could
    want to put on a list and flog to the highest bidder. (If you've normally
    got less than a dollar a day to live on, then even an extra penny makes a
    significant difference - and sitting down indoors bashing a keyboard is
    much easier work than most).

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Apr 17, 2008
    #8
  9. Steve Meyerson wrote:

    > Thanks for your response. I downloaded Hampster Playground from the URL
    > you posted, glanced at its .chm file, but it looks a bit much for my
    > "single" computer and probably my tech savvy.
    >
    > Not sure what 40tude Dialog is. No hit from Google.


    A news client that doesn't require a helper application like Hamster to do
    its filtering; it easily does it itself. Unlike Agent.


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
    Blinky the Shark, Apr 17, 2008
    #9
  10. Steve Meyerson

    Guest

    Whiskers <> wrote:

    >On 2008-04-17, <> wrote:
    >> Steve Meyerson <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    >>>spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >>>
    >>>Wha happen?


    >> Good chance your Mom might be sending them.
    >>
    >> It's a combo of a large botnet, and the Gmail captcha being
    >> cracked/hacked


    >I suspect the 'captcha' thing has not been cracked or hacked;


    Gmail CAPTCHA Cracked
    http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/27/0045242&from=rss

    >rather that
    >time-rich humans with access to internet cafés or school networks or
    >public libraries (or even the spammers own set-up) can be induced at small
    >expense to sit there for an hour or so at a time creating (jointly and
    >cumulatively) as many new Google/Yahoo/whatever accounts as anyone could
    >want to put on a list and flog to the highest bidder. (If you've normally
    >got less than a dollar a day to live on, then even an extra penny makes a
    >significant difference - and sitting down indoors bashing a keyboard is
    >much easier work than most).


    I could see that just as well.


    --

    May contain...
    http://www.mofaha.com/b3ta/tracesofpeanuts.jpg
    , Apr 17, 2008
    #10
  11. Steve Meyerson

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2008-04-17, <> wrote:
    > Whiskers <> wrote:
    >
    >>On 2008-04-17, <> wrote:
    >>> Steve Meyerson <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    >>>>spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    >>>>
    >>>>Wha happen?

    >
    >>> Good chance your Mom might be sending them.
    >>>
    >>> It's a combo of a large botnet, and the Gmail captcha being
    >>> cracked/hacked

    >
    >>I suspect the 'captcha' thing has not been cracked or hacked;

    >
    > Gmail CAPTCHA Cracked
    > http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/27/0045242&from=rss


    Despite the headline, the article that set off that /. discussion doesn't
    preclude the possibility that the actual interpretation of the "captcha"
    image is done by humans - and the quotation (translated from Russian) of
    the text on one of the web pages found on one of the alleged 'cracking'
    systems clearly shows that humans are doing it, for money:

    ..-----<http://securitylabs.websense.com/content/Blogs/2919.aspx>
    | In English it reads as:
    |
    | FAQ
    |
    |
    | If you are unable to recognize a picture or she is not loaded (picture
    | appears black, empty picture), just press Enter.
    |
    | In no case do not enter random characters!
    |
    | If there is delay in downloading images, exit from your account, refresh
    | the page and go again.
    |
    | The system tested in browsers:
    | Internet Explorer
    | Mozilla Firefox
    |
    | Before each payment deemed by pictures checked Admin. We pay only
    | correctly recognized pictures!
    |
    |
    | The payments are made to 1 time per day. The minimum amount to be paid $
    | 3. To have ordered the payment, send in their application consisting of
    | admin. If the administrator is free, your application will be processed
    | within 10-15 minutes, if it is busy as possible.
    |
    |
    | If you have any problems (issues) knock Admin.
    '-----

    This was pointed out by the /.ers at the time.

    >>rather that
    >>time-rich humans with access to internet cafés or school networks or
    >>public libraries (or even the spammers own set-up) can be induced at small
    >>expense to sit there for an hour or so at a time creating (jointly and
    >>cumulatively) as many new Google/Yahoo/whatever accounts as anyone could
    >>want to put on a list and flog to the highest bidder. (If you've normally
    >>got less than a dollar a day to live on, then even an extra penny makes a
    >>significant difference - and sitting down indoors bashing a keyboard is
    >>much easier work than most).

    >
    > I could see that just as well.


    I think it's more likely; while cracking a "security" system is a
    challenging exercise which some people find sufficient reward in itself,
    spammers aren't such people - quick and dirty every time, keep the costs
    down and do what works today.

    Entering user-names and other such details in a web form is relatively
    trivial to have bot do; but the easiest way for the bot to get the
    "captcha" decrypted is for it to ask a human - who can be anywhere on the
    planet, merrily decrypting the images and doing nothing else, and quite
    probably not knowing why the nice (or nasty) person is so eager for them
    to do it. (It wouldn't be impossible to fool people into thinking it was
    a part of a test for a job, or some sort of scientific research or
    experiment, and have them do the work for nothing). The delay in such an
    arrangement would actually make the sign-ups look more genuine than pure
    bot-work would, as bots tend to be a lot faster than humans and give
    themselves away by that feature.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Apr 17, 2008
    #11
  12. On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:54:54 +0100, Whiskers
    <> wrote:

    >I suspect the 'captcha' thing has not been cracked or hacked;


    It has been cracked to some extent. RoboSoft, the software
    distribution application that I use, fills in about 75% of captcha
    automatically.

    Steve

    --
    Neural Planner Software Ltd http://npsl1.com
    EasyNN-plus. Build Neural Networks. http://www.easynn.com
    SwingNN. Forecast the Future. http://www.swingnn.com
    Stephen Wolstenholme, Apr 17, 2008
    #12
  13. Steve Meyerson

    sunnyday

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6
    I don't like Google Group and never been to there.
    sunnyday, Apr 18, 2008
    #13
  14. On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:26:03 +0100, Whiskers
    <> wrote:

    >On 2008-04-17, Stephen Wolstenholme <> wrote:
    >> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:54:54 +0100, Whiskers
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I suspect the 'captcha' thing has not been cracked or hacked;

    >>
    >> It has been cracked to some extent. RoboSoft, the software
    >> distribution application that I use, fills in about 75% of captcha
    >> automatically.
    >>
    >> Steve

    >
    ><Asks ask.com> <http://robosoft.rudenko.com/> Hmmm >>:-( "We don't
    >think that CAPTCHA's on download sites are intended to stop *you*, a
    >shareware vendor from submitting your products." So just why do RoboSoft
    >imagine a site is designed with the clear intent of requiring an individual
    >human submission? A very iffy stance, in my opinion.


    RoboSoft introduced automatic submission a few years ago. It means
    that software venders, like me, can kick off the process and leave it
    running for a few hours. Some download sites only want humans to do
    the work so the can push advertising, etc. They countered RoboSoft by
    using captcha's. RoboSoft then introduced a method recognising the
    "hidden" codes that works quite well.

    Steve

    --
    Neural Planner Software Ltd http://npsl1.com
    EasyNN-plus. Build Neural Networks. http://www.easynn.com
    SwingNN. Forecast the Future. http://www.swingnn.com
    Stephen Wolstenholme, Apr 18, 2008
    #14
  15. Steve Meyerson

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2008-04-18, Stephen Wolstenholme <> wrote:
    > On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:26:03 +0100, Whiskers
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On 2008-04-17, Stephen Wolstenholme <> wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:54:54 +0100, Whiskers
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>I suspect the 'captcha' thing has not been cracked or hacked;
    >>>
    >>> It has been cracked to some extent. RoboSoft, the software
    >>> distribution application that I use, fills in about 75% of captcha
    >>> automatically.
    >>>
    >>> Steve

    >>
    >><Asks ask.com> <http://robosoft.rudenko.com/> Hmmm >>:-( "We don't
    >>think that CAPTCHA's on download sites are intended to stop *you*, a
    >>shareware vendor from submitting your products." So just why do RoboSoft
    >>imagine a site is designed with the clear intent of requiring an individual
    >>human submission? A very iffy stance, in my opinion.

    >
    > RoboSoft introduced automatic submission a few years ago. It means
    > that software venders, like me, can kick off the process and leave it
    > running for a few hours. Some download sites only want humans to do
    > the work so the can push advertising, etc. They countered RoboSoft by
    > using captcha's. RoboSoft then introduced a method recognising the
    > "hidden" codes that works quite well.
    >
    > Steve


    In other words, when they say that they don't think captchas are "intended
    to stop you ...", what they mean is captchas are "intended to stop us, but
    we've got around it hahhah".

    So you're happy to try to profit from a service the provider doesn't
    insist you help pay for, just as long as you can avoid giving that service
    a fair chance of getting any income from you using the revenue channel
    they've chosen. And there was me thinking the whole 'shareware' thing was
    about mutual co-operation and trust. <shakes head sadly - and notices
    that RoboSoft itself is not 'shareware'>

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Apr 18, 2008
    #15
  16. On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:39:26 +0100, Whiskers
    <> wrote:

    >So you're happy to try to profit from a service the provider doesn't
    >insist you help pay for, just as long as you can avoid giving that service
    >a fair chance of getting any income from you using the revenue channel
    >they've chosen. And there was me thinking the whole 'shareware' thing was
    >about mutual co-operation and trust. <shakes head sadly - and notices
    >that RoboSoft itself is not 'shareware'>


    I don't profit from download sites. In fact they cost me because of my
    old stuff that they still list. Most download sites don't provide any
    useful services these days. Many sites just issue fake "awards" -
    everything gets five stars. One of my colleagues recently
    auto-submitted a "do nothing" .exe file. It got lots of five star
    awards.

    The only reason I still update download sites is to supercede their
    references to some of my ancient applications from the days when
    download sites were worth supporting.

    I don't know what shareware is about these days. I haven't written any
    for years.

    I bought RoboSoft many years ago. All I do now is pay for a months
    database access about once a year.

    Steve

    --
    Neural Planner Software Ltd http://npsl1.com
    EasyNN-plus. Build Neural Networks. http://www.easynn.com
    SwingNN. Forecast the Future. http://www.swingnn.com
    Stephen Wolstenholme, Apr 18, 2008
    #16
  17. Steve Meyerson

    Tony Guest

    Is that you Steve? All this spam is a result of Chuckcar showing up on this
    newsgroup. A lot of people seem to follow him around on usenet.

    Steven wrote:

    > The amount of spam has gone insane on here , after I added google servers to
    > the block list they still somehow get in, I guess that's the crappyness of
    > outlook express as a newsgroup reader.im tempted to just quit coming here
    > all together.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    > "Steve Meyerson" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Also tried the newsgp filter on my Agent newsreader. Gave me a message
    > > telling me it filtered the news group, but no other info. I have no
    > > idea what it really did, if anything.
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    > >
    > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:20:12 -0400, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Steve Meyerson wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> It's been a few weeks since I visited this very useful newsgroup. The
    > >>> spam rate jumped from about 10 percent to what seems like 98 percent.
    > >>>
    > >>> Wha happen?
    > >>
    > >>Google Groups happened.
    > >>
    > >>You want no spam? Filter out Google Groups. Since your news client is
    > >>incapable of filtering on the Message-ID header, see this for some tips:
    > >>
    > >>http://improve-usenet.org/filters_ex2.html
    > >>
    > >>In 40tude Dialog, it is a simple matter of adding this to the score
    > >>file:
    > >>
    > >>[*]
    > >>!markread Message-ID googlegroups.com

    > >


    --
    The 3, 2, 1 master of the CyberFROG

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
    Tony, Apr 19, 2008
    #17
    1. Advertising

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