What do the extra contacts on hotshoe do? (v3 related)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by clutch@lycos.com, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. Guest

    I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
    2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
    wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
    contacts + edge).

    I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
    the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
    the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.

    Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
    and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
    on the duracells is Jan 2002.

    So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
    contact than my flash? What does that one do?

    BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
    manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
    nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
    download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.

    Thanks,

    Wes
    --
    Reply to:
    Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
    Lycos address is a spam trap.
     
    , Mar 1, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. wrote:
    > I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
    > 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
    > wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
    > contacts + edge).
    >
    > I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
    > the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
    > the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
    >
    > Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
    > and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
    > on the duracells is Jan 2002.
    >
    > So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
    > contact than my flash? What does that one do?
    >
    > BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
    > manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
    > nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
    > download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Wes


    First I suggest that you make sure any flash you use is compatible with
    your camera. Some, especially old flashes, have a higher voltage - current
    trip circuit that can damage the electronics of your newer digital camera.

    As for what the extra contacts do, many things. They can tell the flash
    to set off some pre-flashes to reduce red eye, change angle of projection to
    accommodate zoom lens, send information from the camera for various
    exposure-power output.

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
     
    Joseph Meehan, Mar 1, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. ECM Guest

    wrote:
    > I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
    > 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
    > wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
    > contacts + edge).
    >
    > I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that

    catches
    > the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
    > the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
    >
    > Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
    > and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
    > on the duracells is Jan 2002.
    >
    > So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
    > contact than my flash? What does that one do?
    >
    > BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
    > manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
    > nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
    > download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Wes
    > --
    > Reply to:
    > Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
    > Lycos address is a spam trap.


    The extra contacts are for TTL ("through the lens") control of a
    dedicated flash. It's very nice to have, but not absolutely necessary,
    especially if you understand how to use a flash manually.

    HOWEVER! I'll warn you to be VERY careful of the old Vivitar - the
    "trigger voltage" could be so high it could damage your V3. I don't
    know where it is anymore, but I've seen a webpage that reports of the
    trigger voltage for a bunch of flashes - maybe some of the other
    net'zens here will be able to find it. You should also check in your V3
    manual for trigger voltage - what the maximum recommended is. Some
    digital cameras have a circuit to protect the camera from the higher
    voltage, most new cameras don't.

    Good Luck!
    ECM
     
    ECM, Mar 1, 2005
    #3
  4. SeaAce Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
    > 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
    > wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
    > contacts + edge).
    >
    > I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
    > the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
    > the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
    >
    > Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
    > and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
    > on the duracells is Jan 2002.
    >
    > So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
    > contact than my flash? What does that one do?
    >
    > BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
    > manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
    > nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
    > download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >

    Try this link:-
    http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

    John
     
    SeaAce, Mar 1, 2005
    #4
  5. SeaAce Guest

    "ECM" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > wrote:
    > > I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
    > > 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
    > > wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
    > > contacts + edge).
    > >
    > > I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that

    > catches
    > > the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
    > > the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
    > >
    > > Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
    > > and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
    > > on the duracells is Jan 2002.
    > >
    > > So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
    > > contact than my flash? What does that one do?
    > >
    > > BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
    > > manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
    > > nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
    > > download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
    > >

    Try this link!

    http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

    John
     
    SeaAce, Mar 1, 2005
    #5
  6. Guest

    "ECM" <> wrote:

    >The extra contacts are for TTL ("through the lens") control of a
    >dedicated flash. It's very nice to have, but not absolutely necessary,
    >especially if you understand how to use a flash manually.
    >
    >HOWEVER! I'll warn you to be VERY careful of the old Vivitar - the
    >"trigger voltage" could be so high it could damage your V3. I don't
    >know where it is anymore, but I've seen a webpage that reports of the
    >trigger voltage for a bunch of flashes - maybe some of the other
    >net'zens here will be able to find it. You should also check in your V3
    >manual for trigger voltage - what the maximum recommended is. Some
    >digital cameras have a circuit to protect the camera from the higher
    >voltage, most new cameras don't.
    >
    >Good Luck!
    >ECM



    I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
    I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.

    Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
    on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
    theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
    voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
    serious volts were turned loose.

    Thanks,

    Wes
    --
    Reply to:
    Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
    Lycos address is a spam trap.
     
    , Mar 1, 2005
    #6
  7. bob Guest

    wrote:

    > BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the


    The D means dedicated. It might have the same manual as the 2800, since
    most of the features would be the same. In reality, I don't think I've
    ever had a manual for a flash -- other than the fancy manufacturer
    flashes, they're mostly not that complicated.

    The website that discusses the issues involved with trigger voltages is
    here:

    http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

    What the extra contacts *mainly* do is allow the camera to control the
    flash. Since your camera doesn't have pins to do the controlling, then
    you need to either set the flash and the camera into manual mode and set
    them both up, or you need to set the flash to an automatic mode, and set
    the aperature on the camera to match. There's usually a dial on the back
    that you use to determine the aperature.

    With a digital camera it is very easy to experiment with the settings to
    determine what works well in any given situation.

    Bob
     
    bob, Mar 1, 2005
    #7
  8. Larry Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
    > 2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
    > wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
    > contacts + edge).
    >
    > I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
    > the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
    > the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
    >
    > Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
    > and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
    > on the duracells is Jan 2002.
    >
    > So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
    > contact than my flash? What does that one do?
    >
    > BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
    > manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
    > nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
    > download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Wes
    >


    The multiple contacts on the Sony V3 are for the Sony proprietary flash unit
    HVL-F32X, which is VERY expensive, but has two fully automatic TTL modes when
    used with a Sony camera disigned for it. (V1, F-828, and V3).

    Auto- A mode: full automode with preflash for exposure setting.

    Auto- B mode: Automatic mode without preflash (camera tells flash how much
    light)

    Manual - power settings for 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/2, and full power.

    Also built in is a focus assist light (soft red light) and a back-light for
    the LCD readout on the back.

    Also has a "modeling" button and a slide out and down "Wide angle" diffuser.

    A good flash, but at $199.00 (US) its a tad expensive.


    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, Mar 1, 2005
    #8
  9. wrote:
    > "ECM" <> wrote:
    >
    >> The extra contacts are for TTL ("through the lens") control of a
    >> dedicated flash. It's very nice to have, but not absolutely
    >> necessary, especially if you understand how to use a flash manually.
    >>
    >> HOWEVER! I'll warn you to be VERY careful of the old Vivitar - the
    >> "trigger voltage" could be so high it could damage your V3. I don't
    >> know where it is anymore, but I've seen a webpage that reports of the
    >> trigger voltage for a bunch of flashes - maybe some of the other
    >> net'zens here will be able to find it. You should also check in your
    >> V3 manual for trigger voltage - what the maximum recommended is. Some
    >> digital cameras have a circuit to protect the camera from the higher
    >> voltage, most new cameras don't.
    >>
    >> Good Luck!
    >> ECM

    >
    >
    > I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
    > I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
    >
    > Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
    > on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
    > theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
    > voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
    > serious volts were turned loose.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Wes


    I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to measure
    with general purpose equipment.

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
     
    Joseph Meehan, Mar 1, 2005
    #9
  10. bob Guest

    Joseph Meehan wrote:

    >>
    >>I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
    >>I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
    >>
    >>Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
    >>on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
    >>theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
    >>voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
    >>serious volts were turned loose.
    >>
    >>Thanks,
    >>
    >>Wes

    >
    >
    > I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to measure
    > with general purpose equipment.
    >


    How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present
    on the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
    nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.

    Bob
     
    bob, Mar 1, 2005
    #10
  11. Harvey Guest

    "bob" <> wrote in message
    news:Z14Vd.20382$...
    > Joseph Meehan wrote:
    >
    >>>
    >>>I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old vom.
    >>>I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
    >>>
    >>>Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash button
    >>>on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to change to a
    >>>theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get you on
    >>>voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical contacts and some
    >>>serious volts were turned loose.
    >>>
    >>>Thanks,
    >>>
    >>>Wes

    >>
    >>
    >> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to
    >> measure with general purpose equipment.
    >>

    >
    > How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present on
    > the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
    > nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.
    >
    > Bob


    True, but a 'trusty old vom' is likely to draw a high enough current to drop
    the voltage considerably. Using a *digital* multimeter etc. will give a more
    accurate result.

    According to http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html there are two
    versions of the Vivitar 2800, the (older?) model has a trigger voltage of
    140-170V, the 2800-*D* is about 4V-33V.
     
    Harvey, Mar 1, 2005
    #11
  12. bob wrote:
    > Joseph Meehan wrote:
    >
    >>>
    >>> I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old
    >>> vom. I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
    >>>
    >>> Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash
    >>> button on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to
    >>> change to a theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get
    >>> you on voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical
    >>> contacts and some serious volts were turned loose.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>>
    >>> Wes

    >>
    >>
    >> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to
    >> measure with general purpose equipment.
    >>

    >
    > How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present
    > on the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
    > nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.


    If the circuit is expecting a very high resistance and your meter has a
    lower resistance it will drop or eliminate the voltage.

    >
    > Bob


    --
    Joseph Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
     
    Joseph Meehan, Mar 2, 2005
    #12
  13. George Guest

    "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in message
    news:mr8Vd.28$...
    > bob wrote:
    > > Joseph Meehan wrote:
    > >
    > >>>
    > >>> I see about 4.6 volts from center pin to edge with my trusty old
    > >>> vom. I guess that part is likely okay. I HOPE.
    > >>>
    > >>> Just for grins, I checked voltage as I pressed the manual flash
    > >>> button on back of unit, other than causing my DISH 508 pvr to
    > >>> change to a theme menu, I didn't see any high volts. I think I get
    > >>> you on voltage. Back in the old days there were mechanical
    > >>> contacts and some serious volts were turned loose.
    > >>>
    > >>> Thanks,
    > >>>
    > >>> Wes
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to
    > >> measure with general purpose equipment.
    > >>

    > >
    > > How do you figgure? The trigger voltage is the voltage that is present
    > > on the terminals when the flash is waiting to be told to fire. There's
    > > nothing particularly hard about measuring a constant DC voltage.

    >
    > If the circuit is expecting a very high resistance and your meter has

    a
    > lower resistance it will drop or eliminate the voltage.
    >
    > >
    > > Bob

    >
    > --
    > Joseph Meehan
    >
    > 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
    >
    >


    That is true (primarily) of old, analog VOMs. For the last 20-25 years I've
    been using various DMMs that generally have input impedances on the order of
    1Mohm - 10Mohm. While it is good to be aware of the possibility of
    measurement error, most people probably don't have to worry about it.
    (You'd have to go to some effort to buy a VOM rather than a DMM these days.
    BTW, VOMs can have FET front ends with very high input impedances too. They
    just cost more. )

    George
     
    George, Mar 2, 2005
    #13
  14. secheese Guest

    On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:02:15 -0500, wrote:

    >I was playing with my Sony DSC-V3 when I remembered I had a Vivitar
    >2800-D in a bag with my old Cannon EF (cannon required content). I
    >wonder if this thing works on my new Sony. The EF (film slr has
    >contacts + edge).
    >
    >I see that my flash has 4 contact points plus the contact that catches
    >the edge of hot shoe making 5 contact points. I snap it on, turn on
    >the power and take some shots. Wow! seems to work.
    >
    >Pretty good considering I bought the flash to do my sister's wedding
    >and her 8 year old son wasn't born at the time. The use before date
    >on the duracells is Jan 2002.
    >
    >So now I am wondering what I am missing since the V3 has one more
    >contact than my flash? What does that one do?
    >
    >BTW, if anyone has the 2800-D, not the 2800, if you could scan the
    >manual and e-mail it to my address in sig line, that would be really
    >nice. Vivitar seems to want me to pay a 3rd party 10 bucks to
    >download a pdf. I'd don't think I want the manual that badly.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >Wes


    Be careful! If your old flash outputs too high of a voltage, you
    could toast your DigiCam.

    If you, or a buddy, has a DTVM take a measure, with the flash on,
    between the centre pin and ground (rail contact). If it reads 24 VDC
    or less, you should be okay to use the flash on your DigiCam.
     
    secheese, Mar 2, 2005
    #14
  15. Guest

    "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote:

    > I would not rely on that. The trigger voltage is difficult to measure
    >with general purpose equipment.


    I measured it with a 25K ohm per volt multimeter. I have a scope at
    work but to measure anything other than the potential at terminal, I
    would have to put the scope across a low ohm resistor and use the
    resistor to trip unit while looking for a spike.

    Wes

    --
    Reply to:
    Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
    Lycos address is a spam trap.
     
    , Mar 2, 2005
    #15
  16. Guest

    Larry <> wrote:

    >The multiple contacts on the Sony V3 are for the Sony proprietary flash unit
    >HVL-F32X, which is VERY expensive, but has two fully automatic TTL modes when
    >used with a Sony camera disigned for it. (V1, F-828, and V3).
    >
    >Auto- A mode: full automode with preflash for exposure setting.
    >
    >Auto- B mode: Automatic mode without preflash (camera tells flash how much
    >light)
    >
    >Manual - power settings for 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/2, and full power.
    >
    >Also built in is a focus assist light (soft red light) and a back-light for
    >the LCD readout on the back.
    >
    >Also has a "modeling" button and a slide out and down "Wide angle" diffuser.
    >
    >A good flash, but at $199.00 (US) its a tad expensive.
    >
    >
    >--
    >Larry Lynch
    >Mystic, Ct.


    Thanks Larry,

    I agree on the expensive. I was about to buy one before I found my
    old 2800-D. I'll do a bit more checking on trigger voltage but I
    fired it a bunch before I posted so I've a feeling the 2800-d isn't
    going to hurt my camera.


    Just out of curiousity, does F32X have the ability to work in burst
    mode?

    Maye I should have asked first, do you have on.

    Thanks again,

    WEs

    --
    Reply to:
    Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
    Lycos address is a spam trap.
     
    , Mar 2, 2005
    #16
  17. Larry Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > Larry <> wrote:
    >
    > >The multiple contacts on the Sony V3 are for the Sony proprietary flash unit
    > >HVL-F32X, which is VERY expensive, but has two fully automatic TTL modes when
    > >used with a Sony camera disigned for it. (V1, F-828, and V3).
    > >
    > >Auto- A mode: full automode with preflash for exposure setting.
    > >
    > >Auto- B mode: Automatic mode without preflash (camera tells flash how much
    > >light)
    > >
    > >Manual - power settings for 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/2, and full power.
    > >
    > >Also built in is a focus assist light (soft red light) and a back-light for
    > >the LCD readout on the back.
    > >
    > >Also has a "modeling" button and a slide out and down "Wide angle" diffuser.
    > >
    > >A good flash, but at $199.00 (US) its a tad expensive.
    > >
    > >
    > >--
    > >Larry Lynch
    > >Mystic, Ct.

    >
    > Thanks Larry,
    >
    > I agree on the expensive. I was about to buy one before I found my
    > old 2800-D. I'll do a bit more checking on trigger voltage but I
    > fired it a bunch before I posted so I've a feeling the 2800-d isn't
    > going to hurt my camera.
    >
    >
    > Just out of curiousity, does F32X have the ability to work in burst
    > mode?
    >
    > Maye I should have asked first, do you have on.
    >
    > Thanks again,
    >
    > WEs
    >
    >



    Yes I have one, and no, it doesnt work in burst mode. As a matter of fact,
    if you have the camera set to use ANY flash, it wont go into burst mode
    itself. Ypu can only use burst mode if the flash function is turned off with
    the camera.


    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, Mar 2, 2005
    #17
  18. George wrote:
    > "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in message

    ...
    >>

    >
    > That is true (primarily) of old, analog VOMs. For the last 20-25
    > years I've been using various DMMs that generally have input
    > impedances on the order of 1Mohm - 10Mohm. While it is good to be
    > aware of the possibility of measurement error, most people probably
    > don't have to worry about it. (You'd have to go to some effort to buy
    > a VOM rather than a DMM these days. BTW, VOMs can have FET front ends
    > with very high input impedances too. They just cost more. )
    >
    > George


    And today with DMM's a lot of people have problems measuring voltage on
    120V home wiring. If the circuit is off (breaker off) they often get
    voltage measurements of a few volts to almost 120V. This is of course due
    to the "transformer" effect between that wire and some adjacent wires. They
    are convinced they have a problem. You have to know your tools.

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
     
    Joseph Meehan, Mar 2, 2005
    #18
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    Moshe Dyan III, May 9, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    489
    Bob Salomon
    May 9, 2004
  4. joesplink

    which camera to get with hotshoe ????

    joesplink, Jul 3, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
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    Views:
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    [BnH]
    Jul 3, 2005
  5. Pierre Jelenc

    hotshoe to hotshoe flash cable

    Pierre Jelenc, Sep 13, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
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    Views:
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    Michael Meissner
    Sep 18, 2005
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