What an awfull couple of days!

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted as
    an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly good
    HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit of
    rummaging.

    So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful
    machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    shoulders for a while now!

    I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though, since
    I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after I
    entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system
    I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic
    PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -
    CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it
    is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

    Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the twin
    XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap' when
    I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing it
    was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    before that had stopped completely.

    But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the
    looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!


    Tony. . .

    (sigh!)
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #1
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  2. Tony Sperling

    Kue2 Guest

    Tony................. have you tried a shot or two of "Bushmills".


    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:O$...
    > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted
    > as
    > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly
    > good
    > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit
    > of
    > rummaging.
    >
    > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful
    > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    > shoulders for a while now!
    >
    > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,
    > since
    > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after
    > I
    > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system
    > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic
    > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -
    > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it
    > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    >
    > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the
    > twin
    > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'
    > when
    > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing
    > it
    > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    > before that had stopped completely.
    >
    > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the
    > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    > (sigh!)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Kue2, Mar 1, 2008
    #2
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  3. Tony Sperling

    Carlos Guest

    Tony,
    Sorry to hear that.
    PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    For what you describe it is not OS related.
    First suspect is the PSU but...
    Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?) and a
    copy of memtest86.
    Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of hours.
    Then run memtest.
    Best of luck.
    Carlos
    PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

    "Tony Sperling" wrote:

    > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted as
    > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly good
    > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit of
    > rummaging.
    >
    > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful
    > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    > shoulders for a while now!
    >
    > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though, since
    > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after I
    > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system
    > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic
    > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -
    > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it
    > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    >
    > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the twin
    > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap' when
    > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing it
    > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    > before that had stopped completely.
    >
    > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the
    > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    > (sigh!)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Carlos, Mar 1, 2008
    #3
  4. I must confess, that one is available here - but I didn't try it yet. I am
    very much attracted to the Irish Sea varieties Talisker, Laphroigh, Caol
    Isla - the latter of which I'll immerse my self into tomorrow. But not in a
    'tarnished' mood!

    But I'll put a note down for Bushmill's, thank you!


    Tony. . .


    "Kue2" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tony................. have you tried a shot or two of "Bushmills".
    >
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:O$...
    > > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    > > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

    enlisted
    > > as
    > > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly
    > > good
    > > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit
    > > of
    > > rummaging.
    > >
    > > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

    wonderful
    > > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    > > shoulders for a while now!
    > >
    > > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,
    > > since
    > > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    > > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

    after
    > > I
    > > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

    system
    > > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

    Seasonic
    > > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

    times -
    > > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    > > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

    it
    > > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    > >
    > > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the
    > > twin
    > > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'
    > > when
    > > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    > > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing
    > > it
    > > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    > > before that had stopped completely.
    > >
    > > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    > > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

    the
    > > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > >
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > > (sigh!)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #4
  5. This is good thinking, Carlos!

    Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -
    (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it) up
    for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which
    suggests the PSU, I think?

    Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single one
    of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am
    thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one of
    my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.


    Tony. . .



    "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    news:D...
    > Tony,
    > Sorry to hear that.
    > PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    > For what you describe it is not OS related.
    > First suspect is the PSU but...
    > Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    > Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?) and a
    > copy of memtest86.
    > Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of

    hours.
    > Then run memtest.
    > Best of luck.
    > Carlos
    > PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    >
    > > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    > > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

    enlisted as
    > > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

    good
    > > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit

    of
    > > rummaging.
    > >
    > > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

    wonderful
    > > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    > > shoulders for a while now!
    > >
    > > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

    since
    > > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    > > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

    after I
    > > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

    system
    > > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

    Seasonic
    > > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

    times -
    > > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    > > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

    it
    > > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    > >
    > > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

    twin
    > > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

    when
    > > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    > > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing

    it
    > > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    > > before that had stopped completely.
    > >
    > > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    > > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

    the
    > > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > >
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > > (sigh!)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #5
  6. The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest
    load). I would investigate the mobo.

    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:O$...
    > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted
    > as
    > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly
    > good
    > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit
    > of
    > rummaging.
    >
    > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful
    > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    > shoulders for a while now!
    >
    > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,
    > since
    > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after
    > I
    > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system
    > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic
    > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -
    > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it
    > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    >
    > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the
    > twin
    > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'
    > when
    > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing
    > it
    > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    > before that had stopped completely.
    >
    > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the
    > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    > (sigh!)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Mar 1, 2008
    #6
  7. This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of the
    kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it from
    having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a point
    of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having a
    'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think this
    is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you have
    the equipment to test your way methodically through all the sub-systems.

    But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because I am
    about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the
    machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do that
    before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this puts me
    in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions. After
    all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty affair - if
    it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will not
    jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out the PSU
    from one of their demo machines! Or something?

    Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less
    likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that
    Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all has
    the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it
    doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it at the
    motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.


    Tony. . .



    "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest
    > load). I would investigate the mobo.
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:O$...
    > > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    > > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

    enlisted
    > > as
    > > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly
    > > good
    > > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit
    > > of
    > > rummaging.
    > >
    > > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

    wonderful
    > > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    > > shoulders for a while now!
    > >
    > > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,
    > > since
    > > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    > > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

    after
    > > I
    > > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

    system
    > > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

    Seasonic
    > > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

    times -
    > > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    > > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

    it
    > > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    > >
    > > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the
    > > twin
    > > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'
    > > when
    > > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    > > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing
    > > it
    > > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    > > before that had stopped completely.
    > >
    > > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    > > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

    the
    > > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > >
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > > (sigh!)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #7
  8. PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.
    That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull everything
    you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video
    into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is good thinking, Carlos!
    >
    > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -
    > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it)
    > up
    > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which
    > suggests the PSU, I think?
    >
    > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single
    > one
    > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am
    > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one
    > of
    > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    >
    > "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    > news:D...
    >> Tony,
    >> Sorry to hear that.
    >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    >> For what you describe it is not OS related.
    >> First suspect is the PSU but...
    >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?) and
    >> a
    >> copy of memtest86.
    >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of

    > hours.
    >> Then run memtest.
    >> Best of luck.
    >> Carlos
    >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)
    >>
    >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    >>
    >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

    > enlisted as
    >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

    > good
    >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a
    >> > bit

    > of
    >> > rummaging.
    >> >
    >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

    > wonderful
    >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over
    >> > your
    >> > shoulders for a while now!
    >> >
    >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

    > since
    >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for
    >> > a
    >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

    > after I
    >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

    > system
    >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

    > Seasonic
    >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

    > times -
    >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day
    >> > in
    >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

    > it
    >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    >> >
    >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

    > twin
    >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

    > when
    >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    >> > three
    >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    >> > Removing

    > it
    >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few
    >> > days
    >> > before that had stopped completely.
    >> >
    >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    >> > carcas
    >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

    > the
    >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Tony. . .
    >> >
    >> > (sigh!)
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >

    >
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Mar 1, 2008
    #8
  9. Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.
    However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to
    ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to warm up)
    before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or even on
    a plug in card.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:%23E$...
    > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of the
    > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it from
    > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a
    > point
    > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having a
    > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think
    > this
    > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you have
    > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the sub-systems.
    >
    > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because I
    > am
    > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the
    > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do
    > that
    > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this puts
    > me
    > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions. After
    > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty affair - if
    > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will not
    > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out the
    > PSU
    > from one of their demo machines! Or something?
    >
    > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less
    > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that
    > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all has
    > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it
    > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it at
    > the
    > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest
    >> load). I would investigate the mobo.
    >>
    >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> news:O$...
    >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

    > enlisted
    >> > as
    >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly
    >> > good
    >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a
    >> > bit
    >> > of
    >> > rummaging.
    >> >
    >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

    > wonderful
    >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over
    >> > your
    >> > shoulders for a while now!
    >> >
    >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,
    >> > since
    >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for
    >> > a
    >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

    > after
    >> > I
    >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

    > system
    >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

    > Seasonic
    >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

    > times -
    >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day
    >> > in
    >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

    > it
    >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    >> >
    >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the
    >> > twin
    >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'
    >> > when
    >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    >> > three
    >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    >> > Removing
    >> > it
    >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few
    >> > days
    >> > before that had stopped completely.
    >> >
    >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    >> > carcas
    >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

    > the
    >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Tony. . .
    >> >
    >> > (sigh!)
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >

    >>

    >
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Mar 1, 2008
    #9
  10. Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an article
    once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find that
    one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to hand
    it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll
    usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for
    something else on their own. Maybe. . .?

    Tony. . .


    "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.
    > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to
    > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to warm

    up)
    > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or even

    on
    > a plug in card.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.
    > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:%23E$...
    > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of the
    > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it from
    > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a
    > > point
    > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having a
    > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think
    > > this
    > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you

    have
    > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the sub-systems.
    > >
    > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because I
    > > am
    > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the
    > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do
    > > that
    > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this puts
    > > me
    > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions. After
    > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty affair -

    if
    > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will

    not
    > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out the
    > > PSU
    > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?
    > >
    > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less
    > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that
    > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all

    has
    > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it
    > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it at
    > > the
    > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.
    > >
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest
    > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.
    > >>
    > >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:O$...
    > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    commited
    > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

    > > enlisted
    > >> > as
    > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    perfectly
    > >> > good
    > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a
    > >> > bit
    > >> > of
    > >> > rummaging.
    > >> >
    > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

    > > wonderful
    > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over
    > >> > your
    > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > >> >
    > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    though,
    > >> > since
    > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

    for
    > >> > a
    > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

    > > after
    > >> > I
    > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

    > > system
    > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

    > > Seasonic
    > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

    > > times -
    > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day
    > >> > in
    > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    hope
    > > it
    > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    > >> >
    > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

    the
    > >> > twin
    > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    'AI-Nap'
    > >> > when
    > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    > >> > three
    > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > >> > Removing
    > >> > it
    > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few
    > >> > days
    > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > >> >
    > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > >> > carcas
    > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

    > > the
    > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Tony. . .
    > >> >
    > >> > (sigh!)
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #10
  11. Tony Sperling

    philo Guest

    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an article
    > once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

    that
    > one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to hand
    > it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll
    > usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for
    > something else on their own. Maybe. . .?
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >



    If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...
    but if that's the case...get a new mobo.

    The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...

    not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,
    there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...
    or will fail a little later


    > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.
    > > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to
    > > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to warm

    > up)
    > > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

    even
    > on
    > > a plug in card.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Charlie.
    > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    > >
    > >
    > > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > news:%23E$...
    > > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of

    the
    > > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

    from
    > > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a
    > > > point
    > > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having

    a
    > > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think
    > > > this
    > > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you

    > have
    > > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

    sub-systems.
    > > >
    > > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because

    I
    > > > am
    > > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the
    > > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do
    > > > that
    > > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

    puts
    > > > me
    > > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

    After
    > > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

    affair -
    > if
    > > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will

    > not
    > > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

    the
    > > > PSU
    > > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?
    > > >
    > > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less
    > > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that
    > > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all

    > has
    > > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it
    > > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it

    at
    > > > the
    > > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Tony. . .
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

    heaviest
    > > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.
    > > >>
    > > >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > >> news:O$...
    > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    > commited
    > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    > > > enlisted
    > > >> > as
    > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    > perfectly
    > > >> > good
    > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite

    a
    > > >> > bit
    > > >> > of
    > > >> > rummaging.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    > > > wonderful
    > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over
    > > >> > your
    > > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > > >> >
    > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    > though,
    > > >> > since
    > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

    > for
    > > >> > a
    > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly
    > > > after
    > > >> > I
    > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'
    > > > system
    > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    > > > Seasonic
    > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few
    > > > times -
    > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

    day
    > > >> > in
    > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    > hope
    > > > it
    > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

    warranty.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

    > the
    > > >> > twin
    > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    > 'AI-Nap'
    > > >> > when
    > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    > > >> > three
    > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > > >> > Removing
    > > >> > it
    > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few
    > > >> > days
    > > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > > >> > carcas
    > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

    under
    > > > the
    > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> > Tony. . .
    > > >> >
    > > >> > (sigh!)
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >
     
    philo, Mar 1, 2008
    #11
  12. Oh yes, Philo, I agree completely. I wouldn't dream of fixing that - except
    maybe on a week-end - as an overture to buying a replacement?


    Tony. . .


    "philo" <> wrote in message
    news:%23I%...
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    > > Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an

    article
    > > once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

    > that
    > > one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to

    hand
    > > it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll
    > > usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for
    > > something else on their own. Maybe. . .?
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    > If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...
    > but if that's the case...get a new mobo.
    >
    > The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...
    >
    > not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,
    > there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...
    > or will fail a little later
    >
    >
    > > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in

    message
    > > news:...
    > > > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.
    > > > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to
    > > > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to

    warm
    > > up)
    > > > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

    > even
    > > on
    > > > a plug in card.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Charlie.
    > > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:%23E$...
    > > > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of

    > the
    > > > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

    > from
    > > > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have

    a
    > > > > point
    > > > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be

    having
    > a
    > > > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I

    think
    > > > > this
    > > > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where

    you
    > > have
    > > > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

    > sub-systems.
    > > > >
    > > > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well,

    because
    > I
    > > > > am
    > > > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build

    the
    > > > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to

    do
    > > > > that
    > > > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

    > puts
    > > > > me
    > > > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

    > After
    > > > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

    > affair -
    > > if
    > > > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they

    will
    > > not
    > > > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

    > the
    > > > > PSU
    > > > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?
    > > > >
    > > > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much

    less
    > > > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment,

    that
    > > > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at

    all
    > > has
    > > > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If

    it
    > > > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw

    it
    > at
    > > > > the
    > > > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Tony. . .
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:...
    > > > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

    > heaviest
    > > > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.
    > > > >>
    > > > >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > > >> news:O$...
    > > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    > > commited
    > > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    > > > > enlisted
    > > > >> > as
    > > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    > > perfectly
    > > > >> > good
    > > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

    quite
    > a
    > > > >> > bit
    > > > >> > of
    > > > >> > rummaging.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    > > > > wonderful
    > > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

    over
    > > > >> > your
    > > > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    > > though,
    > > > >> > since
    > > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

    run
    > > for
    > > > >> > a
    > > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

    shortly
    > > > > after
    > > > >> > I
    > > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

    'Coolest'
    > > > > system
    > > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    > > > > Seasonic
    > > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few
    > > > > times -
    > > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

    > day
    > > > >> > in
    > > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    > > hope
    > > > > it
    > > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

    > warranty.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

    on
    > > the
    > > > >> > twin
    > > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    > > 'AI-Nap'
    > > > >> > when
    > > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

    or
    > > > >> > three
    > > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > > > >> > Removing
    > > > >> > it
    > > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

    few
    > > > >> > days
    > > > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > > > >> > carcas
    > > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

    > under
    > > > > the
    > > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > Tony. . .
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > (sigh!)
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >>
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #12
  13. I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but
    unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had two
    cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled away
    those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I only
    used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did
    suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that was
    one item that was nice to eliminate right away.

    Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when a
    disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and
    here's the opportunity.

    And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by 5%
    from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with the
    temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I didn't
    mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the HD's
    and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and see
    how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm
    afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one attached
    to boot the thing, obviously.

    Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to report?


    Thanks, everyone!


    Tony. . .


    "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.
    > That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

    everything
    > you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video
    > into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.
    > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > This is good thinking, Carlos!
    > >
    > > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -
    > > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it)
    > > up
    > > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which
    > > suggests the PSU, I think?
    > >
    > > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single
    > > one
    > > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am
    > > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one
    > > of
    > > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.
    > >
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    > > news:D...
    > >> Tony,
    > >> Sorry to hear that.
    > >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    > >> For what you describe it is not OS related.
    > >> First suspect is the PSU but...
    > >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    > >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?)

    and
    > >> a
    > >> copy of memtest86.
    > >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of

    > > hours.
    > >> Then run memtest.
    > >> Best of luck.
    > >> Carlos
    > >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)
    > >>
    > >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    commited
    > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

    > > enlisted as
    > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    perfectly
    > > good
    > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a
    > >> > bit

    > > of
    > >> > rummaging.
    > >> >
    > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

    > > wonderful
    > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over
    > >> > your
    > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > >> >
    > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    though,
    > > since
    > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

    for
    > >> > a
    > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

    > > after I
    > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

    > > system
    > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

    > > Seasonic
    > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

    > > times -
    > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day
    > >> > in
    > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    hope
    > > it
    > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    > >> >
    > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

    the
    > > twin
    > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    'AI-Nap'
    > > when
    > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    > >> > three
    > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > >> > Removing

    > > it
    > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few
    > >> > days
    > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > >> >
    > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > >> > carcas
    > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

    > > the
    > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Tony. . .
    > >> >
    > >> > (sigh!)
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >

    > >
    > >

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #13
  14. Tony Sperling

    Carlos Guest

    Tony,
    Charlie's capacitor theory is also a good one.
    At work we also had this issue with many Acer motherboards that would
    restart for no apparent reason.
    Root cause was one of those capacitors on the mobo that add additional
    filtering on the power supply lines.
    Switching power supplies, as opposed to the "old" non-switching ones, place
    a heavy load on the caps because of the high frequencies they have to filter.
    Let's say they work at 20kHz as opposed to the usual 50, 60, 100 or 120 Hz
    of the older designs.
    They have to have a small ESR (equivalent series resistance) otherwise they
    get hot very easily.
    Last but not least, a similar issue to yours, was solved by changing the
    microprocessor (back there in the Pentium II times).
    Carlos

    "Tony Sperling" wrote:

    > Oh yes, Philo, I agree completely. I wouldn't dream of fixing that - except
    > maybe on a week-end - as an overture to buying a replacement?
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    > "philo" <> wrote in message
    > news:%23I%...
    > >
    > > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > news:%...
    > > > Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an

    > article
    > > > once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

    > > that
    > > > one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to

    > hand
    > > > it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll
    > > > usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for
    > > > something else on their own. Maybe. . .?
    > > >
    > > > Tony. . .
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >
    > > If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...
    > > but if that's the case...get a new mobo.
    > >
    > > The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...
    > >
    > > not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,
    > > there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...
    > > or will fail a little later
    > >
    > >
    > > > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in

    > message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.
    > > > > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to
    > > > > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to

    > warm
    > > > up)
    > > > > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

    > > even
    > > > on
    > > > > a plug in card.
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Charlie.
    > > > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:%23E$...
    > > > > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of

    > > the
    > > > > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

    > > from
    > > > > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have

    > a
    > > > > > point
    > > > > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be

    > having
    > > a
    > > > > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I

    > think
    > > > > > this
    > > > > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where

    > you
    > > > have
    > > > > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

    > > sub-systems.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well,

    > because
    > > I
    > > > > > am
    > > > > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build

    > the
    > > > > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to

    > do
    > > > > > that
    > > > > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

    > > puts
    > > > > > me
    > > > > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

    > > After
    > > > > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

    > > affair -
    > > > if
    > > > > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they

    > will
    > > > not
    > > > > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

    > > the
    > > > > > PSU
    > > > > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much

    > less
    > > > > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment,

    > that
    > > > > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at

    > all
    > > > has
    > > > > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If

    > it
    > > > > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw

    > it
    > > at
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Tony. . .
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:...
    > > > > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

    > > heaviest
    > > > > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.
    > > > > >>
    > > > > >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > > > >> news:O$...
    > > > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system
    > > > commited
    > > > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    > > > > > enlisted
    > > > > >> > as
    > > > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a
    > > > perfectly
    > > > > >> > good
    > > > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

    > quite
    > > a
    > > > > >> > bit
    > > > > >> > of
    > > > > >> > rummaging.
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    > > > > > wonderful
    > > > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

    > over
    > > > > >> > your
    > > > > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,
    > > > though,
    > > > > >> > since
    > > > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

    > run
    > > > for
    > > > > >> > a
    > > > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

    > shortly
    > > > > > after
    > > > > >> > I
    > > > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

    > 'Coolest'
    > > > > > system
    > > > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    > > > > > Seasonic
    > > > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few
    > > > > > times -
    > > > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

    > > day
    > > > > >> > in
    > > > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I
    > > > hope
    > > > > > it
    > > > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

    > > warranty.
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

    > on
    > > > the
    > > > > >> > twin
    > > > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool
    > > > 'AI-Nap'
    > > > > >> > when
    > > > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

    > or
    > > > > >> > three
    > > > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > > > > >> > Removing
    > > > > >> > it
    > > > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

    > few
    > > > > >> > days
    > > > > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > > > > >> > carcas
    > > > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

    > > under
    > > > > > the
    > > > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> > Tony. . .
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> > (sigh!)
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >> >
    > > > > >>
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    >
     
    Carlos, Mar 1, 2008
    #14
  15. Tony Sperling

    Carlos Guest

    Tony,
    Overclocking, now that you mention it, that would be the first one to reset
    to 0%.
    It may not provoke temperature issues but you may have problems with memory
    access.
    Carlos

    "Tony Sperling" wrote:

    > I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but
    > unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had two
    > cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled away
    > those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I only
    > used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did
    > suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that was
    > one item that was nice to eliminate right away.
    >
    > Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when a
    > disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and
    > here's the opportunity.
    >
    > And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by 5%
    > from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with the
    > temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I didn't
    > mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the HD's
    > and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and see
    > how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm
    > afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one attached
    > to boot the thing, obviously.
    >
    > Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to report?
    >
    >
    > Thanks, everyone!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.
    > > That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

    > everything
    > > you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video
    > > into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Charlie.
    > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    > >
    > >
    > > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > This is good thinking, Carlos!
    > > >
    > > > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -
    > > > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it)
    > > > up
    > > > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which
    > > > suggests the PSU, I think?
    > > >
    > > > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single
    > > > one
    > > > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am
    > > > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one
    > > > of
    > > > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Tony. . .
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:D...
    > > >> Tony,
    > > >> Sorry to hear that.
    > > >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    > > >> For what you describe it is not OS related.
    > > >> First suspect is the PSU but...
    > > >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    > > >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?)

    > and
    > > >> a
    > > >> copy of memtest86.
    > > >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of
    > > > hours.
    > > >> Then run memtest.
    > > >> Best of luck.
    > > >> Carlos
    > > >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)
    > > >>
    > > >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    > > >>
    > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    > commited
    > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    > > > enlisted as
    > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    > perfectly
    > > > good
    > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a
    > > >> > bit
    > > > of
    > > >> > rummaging.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    > > > wonderful
    > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over
    > > >> > your
    > > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > > >> >
    > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    > though,
    > > > since
    > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

    > for
    > > >> > a
    > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly
    > > > after I
    > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'
    > > > system
    > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    > > > Seasonic
    > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few
    > > > times -
    > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day
    > > >> > in
    > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    > hope
    > > > it
    > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

    > the
    > > > twin
    > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    > 'AI-Nap'
    > > > when
    > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    > > >> > three
    > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > > >> > Removing
    > > > it
    > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few
    > > >> > days
    > > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > > >> > carcas
    > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under
    > > > the
    > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> > Tony. . .
    > > >> >
    > > >> > (sigh!)
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >> >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >
    >
     
    Carlos, Mar 1, 2008
    #15
  16. Absolutely!

    I reset the BIOS and disconnected that potential suspicious DVD drive, it
    ran for ½ hour and I went down to do some shopping. When I came back 10 - 15
    minutes later it had shut down.

    Just now I swapped the DVD's and turned it on again, strangely though, the
    keyboard stopped responding, so I'm not getting into BIOS this time.

    So, it's not the OC'ing! I don't expect to find anything conclusive, but at
    least I will have made some eliminations, which isn't all that bad either
    at-the-end-of-the-day.

    HD's go next!


    Tony. . .

    "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tony,
    > Overclocking, now that you mention it, that would be the first one to

    reset
    > to 0%.
    > It may not provoke temperature issues but you may have problems with

    memory
    > access.
    > Carlos
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    >
    > > I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but
    > > unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had

    two
    > > cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled

    away
    > > those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I

    only
    > > used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did
    > > suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that

    was
    > > one item that was nice to eliminate right away.
    > >
    > > Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when

    a
    > > disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and
    > > here's the opportunity.
    > >
    > > And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by

    5%
    > > from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with

    the
    > > temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I

    didn't
    > > mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the

    HD's
    > > and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and

    see
    > > how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm
    > > afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one

    attached
    > > to boot the thing, obviously.
    > >
    > > Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to

    report?
    > >
    > >
    > > Thanks, everyone!
    > >
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > >
    > > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in

    message
    > > news:...
    > > > PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to

    ground.
    > > > That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

    > > everything
    > > > you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good,

    video
    > > > into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Charlie.
    > > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > This is good thinking, Carlos!
    > > > >
    > > > > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old

    UTBCD -
    > > > > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep

    (it)
    > > > > up
    > > > > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening,

    which
    > > > > suggests the PSU, I think?
    > > > >
    > > > > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a

    single
    > > > > one
    > > > > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I

    am
    > > > > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being

    one
    > > > > of
    > > > > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Tony. . .
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:D...
    > > > >> Tony,
    > > > >> Sorry to hear that.
    > > > >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    > > > >> For what you describe it is not OS related.
    > > > >> First suspect is the PSU but...
    > > > >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    > > > >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that,

    uh?)
    > > and
    > > > >> a
    > > > >> copy of memtest86.
    > > > >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a

    couple of
    > > > > hours.
    > > > >> Then run memtest.
    > > > >> Best of luck.
    > > > >> Carlos
    > > > >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)
    > > > >>
    > > > >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    > > > >>
    > > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    > > commited
    > > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    > > > > enlisted as
    > > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    > > perfectly
    > > > > good
    > > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

    quite a
    > > > >> > bit
    > > > > of
    > > > >> > rummaging.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    > > > > wonderful
    > > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

    over
    > > > >> > your
    > > > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    > > though,
    > > > > since
    > > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

    run
    > > for
    > > > >> > a
    > > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

    shortly
    > > > > after I
    > > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

    'Coolest'
    > > > > system
    > > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    > > > > Seasonic
    > > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few
    > > > > times -
    > > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

    day
    > > > >> > in
    > > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    > > hope
    > > > > it
    > > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

    warranty.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

    on
    > > the
    > > > > twin
    > > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    > > 'AI-Nap'
    > > > > when
    > > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

    or
    > > > >> > three
    > > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > > > >> > Removing
    > > > > it
    > > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

    few
    > > > >> > days
    > > > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > > > >> > carcas
    > > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

    under
    > > > > the
    > > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > Tony. . .
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > (sigh!)
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >
    > >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 1, 2008
    #16
  17. If it's capacitors, the mobo should be swapped. And it should certainly be
    on warranty.

    Get a good flashlight, a magnifying glass, and if possible put the box up on
    a table top where you don't have to bend over or lie down to inspect it. Go
    over it minutely, just looking for _anything_ that looks off. It could be a
    bad solder joint (not as common as the old days, certainly, or a leaky cap,
    or a bit of something conductive that got in and periodically gets blown
    around to a place where it shorts out other things.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Oh yes, Philo, I agree completely. I wouldn't dream of fixing that -
    > except
    > maybe on a week-end - as an overture to buying a replacement?
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    > "philo" <> wrote in message
    > news:%23I%...
    >>
    >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >> > Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an

    > article
    >> > once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

    >> that
    >> > one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to

    > hand
    >> > it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific -
    >> > it'll
    >> > usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for
    >> > something else on their own. Maybe. . .?
    >> >
    >> > Tony. . .
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>
    >> If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...
    >> but if that's the case...get a new mobo.
    >>
    >> The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...
    >>
    >> not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,
    >> there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...
    >> or will fail a little later
    >>
    >>
    >> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in

    > message
    >> > news:...
    >> > > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.
    >> > > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to
    >> > > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to

    > warm
    >> > up)
    >> > > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

    >> even
    >> > on
    >> > > a plug in card.
    >> > >
    >> > > --
    >> > > Charlie.
    >> > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    >> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >> > >
    >> > >
    >> > > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> > > news:%23E$...
    >> > > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's
    >> > > > of

    >> the
    >> > > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

    >> from
    >> > > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily
    >> > > > have

    > a
    >> > > > point
    >> > > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be

    > having
    >> a
    >> > > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I

    > think
    >> > > > this
    >> > > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where

    > you
    >> > have
    >> > > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

    >> sub-systems.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well,

    > because
    >> I
    >> > > > am
    >> > > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build

    > the
    >> > > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to

    > do
    >> > > > that
    >> > > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

    >> puts
    >> > > > me
    >> > > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

    >> After
    >> > > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

    >> affair -
    >> > if
    >> > > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they

    > will
    >> > not
    >> > > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

    >> the
    >> > > > PSU
    >> > > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much

    > less
    >> > > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment,

    > that
    >> > > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at

    > all
    >> > has
    >> > > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If

    > it
    >> > > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw

    > it
    >> at
    >> > > > the
    >> > > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.
    >> > > >
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Tony. . .
    >> > > >
    >> > > >
    >> > > >
    >> > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    >> > > > news:...
    >> > > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

    >> heaviest
    >> > > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.
    >> > > >>
    >> > > >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> > > >> news:O$...
    >> > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share
    >> > > >> > of
    >> > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system
    >> > commited
    >> > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    >> > > > enlisted
    >> > > >> > as
    >> > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a
    >> > perfectly
    >> > > >> > good
    >> > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

    > quite
    >> a
    >> > > >> > bit
    >> > > >> > of
    >> > > >> > rummaging.
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    >> > > > wonderful
    >> > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

    > over
    >> > > >> > your
    >> > > >> > shoulders for a while now!
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,
    >> > though,
    >> > > >> > since
    >> > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

    > run
    >> > for
    >> > > >> > a
    >> > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

    > shortly
    >> > > > after
    >> > > >> > I
    >> > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

    > 'Coolest'
    >> > > > system
    >> > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    >> > > > Seasonic
    >> > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a
    >> > > >> > few
    >> > > > times -
    >> > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a
    >> > > >> > whole

    >> day
    >> > > >> > in
    >> > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic -
    >> > > >> > I
    >> > hope
    >> > > > it
    >> > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

    >> warranty.
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

    > on
    >> > the
    >> > > >> > twin
    >> > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool
    >> > 'AI-Nap'
    >> > > >> > when
    >> > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

    > or
    >> > > >> > three
    >> > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    >> > > >> > Removing
    >> > > >> > it
    >> > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

    > few
    >> > > >> > days
    >> > > >> > before that had stopped completely.
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with
    >> > > >> > the
    >> > > >> > carcas
    >> > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

    >> under
    >> > > > the
    >> > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> > Tony. . .
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> > (sigh!)
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >> >
    >> > > >>
    >> > > >
    >> > > >
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Mar 1, 2008
    #17
  18. Always useful to keep an old PCI one around, just in case. ;)

    Most of my machines are still AGP, with only a couple being PCI-e at this
    point. That will change with the next round, but that's a while still.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel


    "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but
    > unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had two
    > cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled away
    > those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I
    > only
    > used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did
    > suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that was
    > one item that was nice to eliminate right away.
    >
    > Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when a
    > disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and
    > here's the opportunity.
    >
    > And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by 5%
    > from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with the
    > temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I
    > didn't
    > mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the
    > HD's
    > and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and see
    > how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm
    > afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one
    > attached
    > to boot the thing, obviously.
    >
    > Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to report?
    >
    >
    > Thanks, everyone!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    >
    > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.
    >> That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

    > everything
    >> you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video
    >> into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Charlie.
    >> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >>
    >>
    >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > This is good thinking, Carlos!
    >> >
    >> > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old
    >> > UTBCD -
    >> > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep
    >> > (it)
    >> > up
    >> > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which
    >> > suggests the PSU, I think?
    >> >
    >> > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single
    >> > one
    >> > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am
    >> > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being
    >> > one
    >> > of
    >> > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Tony. . .
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:D...
    >> >> Tony,
    >> >> Sorry to hear that.
    >> >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    >> >> For what you describe it is not OS related.
    >> >> First suspect is the PSU but...
    >> >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    >> >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?)

    > and
    >> >> a
    >> >> copy of memtest86.
    >> >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple
    >> >> of
    >> > hours.
    >> >> Then run memtest.
    >> >> Best of luck.
    >> >> Carlos
    >> >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)
    >> >>
    >> >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    >> >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    > commited
    >> >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    >> > enlisted as
    >> >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    > perfectly
    >> > good
    >> >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a
    >> >> > bit
    >> > of
    >> >> > rummaging.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    >> > wonderful
    >> >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over
    >> >> > your
    >> >> > shoulders for a while now!
    >> >> >
    >> >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    > though,
    >> > since
    >> >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

    > for
    >> >> > a
    >> >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly
    >> > after I
    >> >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'
    >> > system
    >> >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    >> > Seasonic
    >> >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few
    >> > times -
    >> >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole
    >> >> > day
    >> >> > in
    >> >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    > hope
    >> > it
    >> >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year
    >> >> > warranty.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

    > the
    >> > twin
    >> >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    > 'AI-Nap'
    >> > when
    >> >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    >> >> > three
    >> >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    >> >> > Removing
    >> > it
    >> >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few
    >> >> > days
    >> >> > before that had stopped completely.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    >> >> > carcas
    >> >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put
    >> >> > under
    >> > the
    >> >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Tony. . .
    >> >> >
    >> >> > (sigh!)
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >
    >> >

    >>

    >
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Mar 1, 2008
    #18
  19. Tony Sperling

    Kaindog Guest

    Hey Tony,

    have you flashed your BIOS recently? if that stuffs up it can cause all
    sorts of boot issues. what about auto downloading...did it download a virus?
    and of course the good old motherboard drivers...have they been updated
    recently? after running for 20 minutes or so, what temp does your BIOS say
    your CPU is at? you might have a faulty temp sensor...in which case you
    should have an option in BIOS to disable system resets when a certain temp is
    reached....just make sure it IS a FALSE reading or zap goes your 64bit baby.
    hope this gives you food for thought
    --
    Gamer extraordiaire


    "Tony Sperling" wrote:

    > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited
    > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted as
    > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly good
    > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit of
    > rummaging.
    >
    > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful
    > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your
    > shoulders for a while now!
    >
    > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though, since
    > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a
    > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after I
    > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system
    > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic
    > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -
    > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in
    > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it
    > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.
    >
    > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the twin
    > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap' when
    > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three
    > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing it
    > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days
    > before that had stopped completely.
    >
    > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas
    > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the
    > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    > (sigh!)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Kaindog, Mar 2, 2008
    #19
  20. Come to think of it, Charlie I should have one - it is so long ago now that
    I can hardly remember, but the last one must have been that amazingly
    expensive Diamond card I had in my good old DX50. Looking for something I
    actually found the old Yamaha Sound Card that came with that same machine,
    and I still have the box (hmm, could it be still sitting in there?) But
    hey! That wasn't even PCI was it? That was that otherly Bus standard, that
    nobody remembers any more. Except you, I'll bet. Well, I must have a look in
    the morning. I can hardly have used it anywhere else. Gawd, I almost hope it
    is the video, it's a very capable 7950 GTX, and it gives me all the
    performance I could wish for, but there isn't much future in it any more,
    now the DirectX10's are out and about.

    The last inclination I had about the issue was that it only shut down when I
    left the room! My interest faded somewhat and I'll have to continue in the
    morning. Thanks Charlie, this post of yours may have ingested a bit of new
    hope just the same. It's almost a shame that I don't have the Diamond driver
    any more, that is, IF it had been PCI. It would be interesting to see
    Windows start up with that old steamer now.


    Tony. . .


    "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Always useful to keep an old PCI one around, just in case. ;)
    >
    > Most of my machines are still AGP, with only a couple being PCI-e at this
    > point. That will change with the next round, but that's a while still.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.
    > http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    >
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but
    > > unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had

    two
    > > cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled

    away
    > > those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I
    > > only
    > > used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did
    > > suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that

    was
    > > one item that was nice to eliminate right away.
    > >
    > > Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when

    a
    > > disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and
    > > here's the opportunity.
    > >
    > > And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by

    5%
    > > from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with

    the
    > > temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I
    > > didn't
    > > mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the
    > > HD's
    > > and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and

    see
    > > how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm
    > > afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one
    > > attached
    > > to boot the thing, obviously.
    > >
    > > Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to

    report?
    > >
    > >
    > > Thanks, everyone!
    > >
    > >
    > > Tony. . .
    > >
    > >
    > > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in

    message
    > > news:...
    > >> PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to

    ground.
    > >> That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

    > > everything
    > >> you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good,

    video
    > >> into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Charlie.
    > >> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    > >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:...
    > >> > This is good thinking, Carlos!
    > >> >
    > >> > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old
    > >> > UTBCD -
    > >> > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep
    > >> > (it)
    > >> > up
    > >> > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening,

    which
    > >> > suggests the PSU, I think?
    > >> >
    > >> > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a

    single
    > >> > one
    > >> > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I

    am
    > >> > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being
    > >> > one
    > >> > of
    > >> > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Tony. . .
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > "Carlos" <> wrote in message
    > >> > news:D...
    > >> >> Tony,
    > >> >> Sorry to hear that.
    > >> >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.
    > >> >> For what you describe it is not OS related.
    > >> >> First suspect is the PSU but...
    > >> >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.
    > >> >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?)

    > > and
    > >> >> a
    > >> >> copy of memtest86.
    > >> >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple
    > >> >> of
    > >> > hours.
    > >> >> Then run memtest.
    > >> >> Best of luck.
    > >> >> Carlos
    > >> >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)
    > >> >>
    > >> >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of
    > >> >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

    > > commited
    > >> >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I
    > >> > enlisted as
    > >> >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

    > > perfectly
    > >> > good
    > >> >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite

    a
    > >> >> > bit
    > >> > of
    > >> >> > rummaging.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a
    > >> > wonderful
    > >> >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

    over
    > >> >> > your
    > >> >> > shoulders for a while now!
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

    > > though,
    > >> > since
    > >> >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

    > > for
    > >> >> > a
    > >> >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

    shortly
    > >> > after I
    > >> >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'
    > >> > system
    > >> >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a
    > >> > Seasonic
    > >> >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few
    > >> > times -
    > >> >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole
    > >> >> > day
    > >> >> > in
    > >> >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

    > > hope
    > >> > it
    > >> >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year
    > >> >> > warranty.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

    on
    > > the
    > >> > twin
    > >> >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

    > > 'AI-Nap'
    > >> > when
    > >> >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or
    > >> >> > three
    > >> >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.
    > >> >> > Removing
    > >> > it
    > >> >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

    few
    > >> >> > days
    > >> >> > before that had stopped completely.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the
    > >> >> > carcas
    > >> >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put
    > >> >> > under
    > >> > the
    > >> >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Tony. . .
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > (sigh!)
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
     
    Tony Sperling, Mar 2, 2008
    #20
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