Well featured mobo for cost-effective PC?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Jeff Conescu, Dec 5, 2004.

  1. Jeff Conescu

    Jeff Conescu Guest

    I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep it
    low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    some motivation to keep the price down.

    At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't kept
    up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the 'C'
    800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    I'm all ears.

    All advice appreciated.

    [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    Jeff Conescu, Dec 5, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Jeff Conescu

    Gorbag Guest

    MSI. Best lower priced boards.

    G



    "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep
    > it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the
    > 'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    >
    >
    Gorbag, Dec 5, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Why would you overclock a general use computer? It's just asking for
    trouble.

    btb

    "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep
    > it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the
    > 'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    >
    >
    Bruce T. Berger, Dec 5, 2004
    #3
  4. Jeff Conescu

    Ruel Smith Guest

    Jeff Conescu wrote:

    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep
    > it low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so
    > there's some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > kept up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and
    > pricing issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one
    > of the 'C' 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for
    > buck at the moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent
    > familiarity means I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can
    > point me in the direction of any recent developments which would let me do
    > more for less, I'm all ears.


    The cost of the processor is your biggest problem with any Intel system. You
    can find good boards are reasonable prices everywhere.

    However, the best bang for the buck and the cheapest isn't always the same.
    The best motherboard for the money is hands down the Asus P4P800-E Deluxe.
    It's currently about $112 US. It's rock solid. If you're just looking for
    something with less features and less money than that, then take a look at
    the MSI 865PE NEO2-V for $72 US. The MSI board contains Fuzzy Logic, where
    it dynamically overclocks your CPU on demand. Therefore, it runs normally
    when it's no on load, keeping it cool, and throttles up under load to give
    you peak perfromance. Pretty nice...
    Ruel Smith, Dec 5, 2004
    #4
  5. "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    [snip]

    >I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles


    What chipset driver hassles? Get an NForce2 based board and stay away from
    VIA (even they have gotten much better) and there are no "chipset driver
    hassles" to speak of.


    > and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.


    Sure. For around $200.00 US, snatch up an Athlox XP 2500 Barton core (while
    there are some left to snatch -- get a mobile unit if you really want to
    crank it up and don't mind seeing an "unknown processor" error at POST),
    throw it an an ABIT NF7/AN7 series motherboard, put on a decent heatsink,
    crank up the front side bus until the system is just on the edge of stable
    and then back it down a few megahertz for "bang for the buck" system that
    will fly.

    Example of the Abit NF7-S here:
    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-166&depa=1


    Example of the Abit AN7 here:

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-167&depa=1


    Standard AMD Athlon XP 2500 Barton here:
    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-167&depa=1

    Mobile AMD Athlon XP 2500 Barton here:
    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-401&depa=1

    The advantages of the mobile version of the processor are an unlocked
    multiplier, a lower rated operating voltage at rated speed (more headroom
    for overclocking), lower power dissipation (until you crank up the core
    voltage) and the ability to consistently overclock to Athlon XP 3200 class
    speeds among most examples.

    If you can beat that combo for $200.00 US with an Intel based setup, let me
    know.
    Oxford Systems, Dec 5, 2004
    #5
  6. "Bruce T. Berger" <btb@Ican'tstandspam.no> wrote in message
    news:wQCsd.2403$...
    > Why would you overclock a general use computer? It's just asking for
    > trouble.


    I'd be interested to know why you *think* that is true.
    Oxford Systems, Dec 5, 2004
    #6
  7. "Gorbag" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f30b$0$53011$...
    > MSI. Best lower priced boards.


    Agrees. I have a dual processor MSI board for my server. It is rock
    solid....


    >
    > "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    > news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting

    edge,
    > > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor.

    The
    > > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can

    keep
    > > it
    > > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so

    there's
    > > some motivation to keep the price down.
    > >
    > > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit

    IS7
    > > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > > kept
    > > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and

    pricing
    > > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the
    > > 'C'
    > > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at

    the
    > > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity

    means
    > > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for

    less,
    > > I'm all ears.
    > >
    > > All advice appreciated.
    > >
    > > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Terje Johan Abrahamsen, Dec 5, 2004
    #7
  8. In article <NfEsd.1886$>
    Oxford Systems <> wrote:
    >
    >Sure. For around $200.00 US, snatch up an Athlox XP 2500 Barton core (while
    >there are some left to snatch -- get a mobile unit if you really want to
    >crank it up and don't mind seeing an "unknown processor" error at POST),
    >throw it an an ABIT NF7/AN7 series motherboard, put on a decent heatsink,
    >crank up the front side bus until the system is just on the edge of stable
    >and then back it down a few megahertz for "bang for the buck" system that
    >will fly.


    In his alternate universe.

    --
    Lady Chatterly

    "The imprimatur of Lady Chatterly. I'm so jealous." -- Dr. Zen
    Lady Chatterly, Dec 5, 2004
    #8
  9. Jeff Conescu wrote:

    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4.


    Check out the Asus P4P800E, its loaded with features for the price and IMO
    vastly better than the AI7 (I have both boards).
    I paid about $170 for mine.

    I can o/clock much higher with the Asus with greater stability compared to
    the Abit. Currently it has a 3.06GHz running at ~3.3GHz with average temps
    under 40C, which is pretty good considering (keeping in mind I´m not too
    concerned about o/clocking to the limit).

    You get just about all the right features such as SATA, RAID, 7.1 sound,
    Gigabit LAN, 11.b wireless LAN, Firewire... and a AGP slot of course.
    The BIOS is better than the Abit, as is the monitoring and o/clocking
    software that comes with it.

    To be honest I´m not entirely happy with my AI7... its a little cantankerous
    and has a few annoying traits in my book. I bought into the good reputation
    Abit has, instead of sticking with Asus... wish I hadn't in hindsight.

    Can you tell which board I prefer? ;)

    Then again, maybe the AI7 is now much cheaper than the P4P800E? I´m not sure
    what the current prices are but I know that I essentially paid the same
    amount for both mobos only a couple of months apart.



    --
    /Jeßus/
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Je=DFus?=, Dec 5, 2004
    #9
  10. Jeff Conescu

    Rob Guest

    you can shave off some bucks by foregoing the 800mhz FSB
    and perhaps going with a socket 478 celeron.

    "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep
    > it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the
    > 'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    >
    >
    Rob, Dec 5, 2004
    #10
  11. Jeff Conescu

    Dave C. Guest

    "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep
    > it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the
    > 'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]


    So what was your question again? OH, I see . . . you want to know if anyone
    can offer you a reason NOT to do what you are planning to do. Nope, looks
    pretty good. :)

    I'd advise you not to overclock, but if you are going to ignore that good
    advice . . . why the heck would you choose a 2.8? 2.4 will be cheaper and
    will overclock better (if anything could be said to overclock "well", that
    is). Plus, if you are building a gaming rig, you really need to pump more
    money into the video card. -Dave
    Dave C., Dec 5, 2004
    #11
  12. Jeff Conescu

    TomG Guest

    IC7-G

    --

    Thomas Geery
    Network+ certified

    ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
    ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
    This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
    over 130,000 FTP users served!
    ^^^^^^^




    "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep
    > it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the
    > 'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    >
    >
    TomG, Dec 5, 2004
    #12
  13. "Jeff Conescu" wrote
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't

    kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the

    'C'
    > 800fsb variety.




    Hi,

    The ABIT AI7 is a great motherboard, stick in a 2.8GHz Northwood and you are
    on your way to a great system. My 2.8GHz runs at 3.5GHz (250MHz-FSB) no
    problems on the AI7.

    On the AMD side of thing you could pick up a Thoroughbred, Barton or Sempron
    and stick it in a n-Force2 mobo and have a sweet system.

    Lastly there is A64's which have come down in price allot, but I have no
    personal experience with them myself yet.

    I have been buying allot of 2ndhand kit from eBay, and despite the rumours I
    heard about eBay being full of rip-off merchants all my 24 won-auctions have
    arrived, and all the stuff I tested so far works great. Building a small
    fleet of ATHLONS, there being sold off so cheap now on eBay as people
    clamber to get on the A64 train. . . . .

    Wayne ][
    Wayne Youngman, Dec 5, 2004
    #13
  14. Jeff Conescu

    Dodo Guest

    You can go cutting edge on that budget. Something built on the Intel
    D915PCYL, maybe. I use only Intel retail-boxed products when building. Intel
    offers excellent quality, support and warranty. If he'll be playing games
    like Doom3, then a serious graphics card is in order. A card with decent
    reviews can be found at
    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-170-044&depa=1.
    Dodo, Dec 5, 2004
    #14
  15. Jeff Conescu

    Tweek Guest

    The IS7 is a great board, I have one in my machine right here. But to stay
    within budget, and get good price/performance I would go with AMD. If you
    stick with an Nforce2 board, you will not have any more driver hassles than
    with an Intel based board. I would suggest the Abit NF7 series. I built one
    for a friend last year with an Athlon XP 2500+ and it has been rock solid.
    Nvidias drivers are stable and updated relatively regularly. On top of that,
    it is just one installation executable that gets all the chipset drivers
    installed. The motherboard/cpu combo can be had for less than $150 US.

    "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep
    > it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't
    > kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the
    > 'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    >
    >
    Tweek, Dec 5, 2004
    #15
  16. "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep

    it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't

    kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the

    'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    >

    Use AMD with Nvidia motherboard.
    Mike.
    Michael Hawes, Dec 5, 2004
    #16
  17. Jeff Conescu

    Jimmy Dean Guest

    On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:25:28 +1100, "Jeff Conescu" <>
    wrote:

    >I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    >internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,


    What sort of games are we talking about here? Many high-end games
    require a cutting edge PC to run well (graphics intensive). Of course
    if you're talking Solitaire and MahJong...

    jd
    Jimmy Dean, Dec 6, 2004
    #17
  18. Jeff Conescu

    127.0.0.1 Guest

    "Jimmy Dean" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 22:25:28 +1100, "Jeff Conescu" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > >internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,

    >
    > What sort of games are we talking about here? Many high-end games
    > require a cutting edge PC to run well (graphics intensive). Of course
    > if you're talking Solitaire and MahJong...
    >
    > jd


    for the OP, don't by a cheap power supply... those are usually the first to
    expire.
    larger cases require less cooling. smaller cases require more cooling. more
    cooling = faster dust accumulation. integrated video is not recommended for
    3d gaming. integrated audio is acceptable. integrated usb2 is desireable.
    integrated NIC's can be a headache when troubleshooting networking problems.

    -a|ex
    127.0.0.1, Dec 7, 2004
    #18
  19. Jeff Conescu

    Matt Guest

    Jeff Conescu wrote:

    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the
    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium.


    I didn't know that AMD solutions imply "chipset driver hassles".
    Matt, Dec 9, 2004
    #19
  20. Jeff Conescu

    No_ONE_Here Guest

    "Jeff Conescu" <> wrote in message
    news:41b2f01e$0$25775$...
    > I've been charged with building a PC for a friend for general use -
    > internet, games, office applications. It doesn't need to be cutting edge,
    > but I'd rather not use an integrated video card or Celeron processor. The
    > budget extends to around $1200 Australian (c. $800 US), but if I can keep

    it
    > low enough, a 17" LCD might be in the picture instead of a CRT, so there's
    > some motivation to keep the price down.
    >
    > At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Socket 478 board such as the Abit IS7
    > or AI7, in combination with an overclocked 2.8Ghz P4. I really haven't

    kept
    > up with hardware over the last 6-12 months, but given the heat and pricing
    > issues of the latest Intel processors, I'm keen to stick with one of the

    'C'
    > 800fsb variety. I understand AMD are probably better bang for buck at the


    I'm using an AMD right now, and when it comes to temps where you live, you
    want a
    AMD, 2500+ M or something is what I would suggest.
    A P4C may get to hot where you live, they cant cope with the high temps.
    The P4 (Prescott)'s just run hot, reason is power, they need something like
    103Wats
    This is why they get soo hot.
    Almost all the AMD Athlon's can run warmer then the P4c's and stay stable.
    I've tested both my system's last summer under extreme conditions.
    I left room temp get up to around 84ºF, then ran Sandra burn in test on
    both.
    I set it the same on both, + Both systems were Overclocked.
    P4 2.6 C Overclocked to 3 Or so on z GHZ
    AMD 2200+ Overclocked to 2.18 Or so on z GHZ
    The AMD lasted the longest before it became unstable enough to restart.
    It got through about 6 or 7 of the 10 tests.
    The Intel just made it through 3.
    Now, imagine if neither of the two systems were overclocked.
    Room temp @ 73 or 70ºF, they both got through all 10 tests.

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<Getting back to the point now>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If I were you, I would get one of the Asus A7N8X boards.
    It's not the best video cards out there, and only 4x, but if you could find
    a
    Radeon 9000 (used), that would keep things cheap.
    You don't really need to buy a sound card, but if you were to get one, I
    would go
    with a Creative SB Audigy LS They are a some what cheap sound card, but
    still sound nice.
    I should know, I do have one of everything I've listed so far, or did.
    I gave my Radeon 9000 to my step nephew with an MSI Combo board.
    Also a 2000+ chip, and 256Mb ram, 120GB drive, and cd-rom.
    Together with a 350 W PSU.

    If you really want to go with Intel, be my guest.
    Get one of the better boards to the Gigabyte 8IG1000 Pro
    There's more then one of them, and trust me, Intel Extreme Grapgics are not
    the best,
    but it's good for the money.

    Then you only need
    "" You'll need these for either of the two systems, I think you know this
    though. ""
    "Ram, cd-rom, HDD of some kind, Case, and PSU."
    Unless you can take it from a system you already have.

    Anyways, I hope this helps, and if you need anything else, just ask.
    If you want to know about Overclocking, this is the group for it.
    And the A7N8X line is good for it. (AMD)
    Anything Better then a Gigabyte GA-8IG1000 Pro is good for this too.
    (Intel P4 C & E)

    No_ONE_Here

    > moment, but chipset driver hassles and a lack of recent familiarity means
    > I'm inclined to stick with a Pentium. But if anyone can point me in the
    > direction of any recent developments which would let me do more for less,
    > I'm all ears.
    >
    > All advice appreciated.
    >
    > [All follow-ups set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk only]
    >
    No_ONE_Here, Dec 10, 2004
    #20
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