Want to Use Existing House Wiring ... however a simple test fails

Discussion in 'VOIP' started by cpurvis3@csc.com, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I've just signed-up with Sunrocket (too early to give an accurate
    opinion, but so far no problems (knock wood!)) and would like to
    eventually use the existing house wiring.

    As a simple test, I first wanted to see and expected the "gizmo" (what
    sunrocket calls the device) would work if I plug two separate phones
    into the single gizmo jack using a dual phone jack adapter. But both
    phones didn't work! If I unplug either one of them from the adapter,
    the connected phone works.

    The reason I'm testing in this way is because I ultimately would like
    to use the existing house wiring (yes I know I would need to make sure
    the house wiring is no longer connected to the land-based provider).
    So I thought a simple test like I described above would work.

    Note: I know the dual jack adapter is working fine, as well both phones
    because I'm still able to test this configuration on my landline phone
    (landline service hasn't been cancelled yet).

    All I'm basically doing is "splitting" the phone line connected to the
    gizmo and attaching two separate phones, and expecting both phones to
    work. What am I missing here in my assumption ??????
     
    , Jan 9, 2006
    #1
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  2. Rick Merrill Guest

    wrote:
    > I've just signed-up with Sunrocket (too early to give an accurate
    > opinion, but so far no problems (knock wood!)) and would like to
    > eventually use the existing house wiring.
    >
    > As a simple test, I first wanted to see and expected the "gizmo" (what
    > sunrocket calls the device) would work if I plug two separate phones
    > into the single gizmo jack using a dual phone jack adapter. But both
    > phones didn't work! If I unplug either one of them from the adapter,
    > the connected phone works.
    >
    > The reason I'm testing in this way is because I ultimately would like
    > to use the existing house wiring (yes I know I would need to make sure
    > the house wiring is no longer connected to the land-based provider).
    > So I thought a simple test like I described above would work.
    >
    > Note: I know the dual jack adapter is working fine, as well both phones
    > because I'm still able to test this configuration on my landline phone
    > (landline service hasn't been cancelled yet).
    >
    > All I'm basically doing is "splitting" the phone line connected to the
    > gizmo and attaching two separate phones, and expecting both phones to
    > work. What am I missing here in my assumption ??????
    >


    Are you testing by "dial tone" or by an incoming "ring?" If the latter,
    you will need to know the REN (ringer equivalent number) of your "gizmo"
    (normally called an ATA (analog telephone adapter)) AND the REN of your
    various phones which must total less than the gizmo REN.
     
    Rick Merrill, Jan 9, 2006
    #2
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  3. Guest

    I'm simply testing for a dial tone in both phones. It's funny, but if
    I disconnect the cable going from the gizmo to the comcast HS modem,
    then reconnect the cable, for a brief period (5 - 10 seconds) I get
    dial tones in both phones.

    I've seen/read in other post that they have a similiar configuration
    (i.e. - splitter from the gizmo to two phones) with no problems.

    Can it be with the gizmo itself? Could it be that I need to simply
    "reset" the gizmo by some orderly combination of diconnecting the
    power, cable to HS modem, etc.? Could the provider (i.e. - Sunrocket)
    somehow have some kind of control over this? I hope not!!

    If it is the REN # of the gizmo (1st I ever heard of this), how do i
    get this value (call support?). How do I go about getting the REN of
    my indiviual phones?
     
    , Jan 9, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    I think I resolved it (but still don't know the true total REN values
    or how to determine it) !!!!

    It turns out the 2nd phone (an older model) I was test splitting with,
    it appears, was drawing some kind of additional voltage - just enough
    to put my test over the limit. Funny thing is, the only other phone I
    ultimately wanted to connect to my VOLP system with in the house -
    which is a talking caller id phone with message capability - appears to
    work with the VOLP system. I would of thought this phone would not
    pass the test, thus I didn't originally attempt it.

    So what I plan to do is buy 1 or two more expandable phones (for a
    total of 3 or 4) and add my Caller ID phone.

    IF this all works, my only other question has to deal with how/which
    phone I will use to capture incoming messages. I don't think I can use
    both.
     
    , Jan 10, 2006
    #4
  5. Rick Merrill Guest

    wrote:
    > I think I resolved it (but still don't know the true total REN values
    > or how to determine it) !!!!
    >
    > It turns out the 2nd phone (an older model) I was test splitting with,
    > it appears, was drawing some kind of additional voltage - just enough
    > to put my test over the limit. Funny thing is, the only other phone I
    > ultimately wanted to connect to my VOLP system with in the house -
    > which is a talking caller id phone with message capability - appears to
    > work with the VOLP system. I would of thought this phone would not
    > pass the test, thus I didn't originally attempt it.
    >
    > So what I plan to do is buy 1 or two more expandable phones (for a
    > total of 3 or 4) and add my Caller ID phone.
    >
    > IF this all works, my only other question has to deal with how/which
    > phone I will use to capture incoming messages. I don't think I can use
    > both.
    >


    REN:: the phone (or modem) is required by law to have the REN number
    printed or embossed on it, usually on the bottom. The problem is that
    the ATA is not requied to tell you what REN it supports.
     
    Rick Merrill, Jan 10, 2006
    #5
  6. Guest

    Rick -

    The REN for my two phones I intend to use are ...

    1.) Uniden 2.4 Ghz expandable - REN = 0.0B
    2.) Panasonic Talking Caller Id - REN = 0.1B

    Thus the total REN = 0.1 B (whatever the "B" means)

    Sunrocket's response to their gizmo REN value was to not exceed 4.0,
    thus I'm in good shape.

    Just a few more questions:
    a.) What's the "B" stand for ?
    b.) What are some typical REN ranges for some phones. I would of
    thought a new phone to
    have a higher value, but it seems the opposite - some of my old
    laying-around-the-basement phones
    may have high REN values - what's your take?
     
    , Jan 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Rick Merrill Guest

    wrote:
    > Rick -
    >
    > The REN for my two phones I intend to use are ...
    >
    > 1.) Uniden 2.4 Ghz expandable - REN = 0.0B
    > 2.) Panasonic Talking Caller Id - REN = 0.1B
    >
    > Thus the total REN = 0.1 B (whatever the "B" means)
    >
    > Sunrocket's response to their gizmo REN value was to not exceed 4.0,
    > thus I'm in good shape.
    >
    > Just a few more questions:
    > a.) What's the "B" stand for ?
    > b.) What are some typical REN ranges for some phones. I would of
    > thought a new phone to
    > have a higher value, but it seems the opposite - some of my old
    > laying-around-the-basement phones
    > may have high REN values - what's your take?
    >


    You ARE in good shape. (that 0.0 is dubious however: 0.2?)
    AND the REN only affects the "ring".
    FYI: In the United States 1 REN is equivalent to a 6930 ohm resistor in
    series with an 8 µF ( microfarad) capacitor. In Europe 1 REN is
    equivalent to a 1800 ohm resistor in series with an 1 µF capacitor.
    (Source: partly from Federal Standard 1037C)
    [No, I didn't know that; google/wikipedia did!-]
     
    Rick Merrill, Jan 11, 2006
    #7
  8. R-Guy Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rick -
    >
    > The REN for my two phones I intend to use are ...
    >
    > 1.) Uniden 2.4 Ghz expandable - REN = 0.0B
    > 2.) Panasonic Talking Caller Id - REN = 0.1B
    >
    > Thus the total REN = 0.1 B (whatever the "B" means)
    >
    > Sunrocket's response to their gizmo REN value was to not exceed 4.0,
    > thus I'm in good shape.
    >
    > Just a few more questions:
    > a.) What's the "B" stand for ?
    > b.) What are some typical REN ranges for some phones. I would of
    > thought a new phone to
    > have a higher value, but it seems the opposite - some of my old
    > laying-around-the-basement phones
    > may have high REN values - what's your take?
    >


    From http://yarchive.net/phone/ren.html ...

    What does the B or A after an REN mean?

    I think I covered this in an earlier posting, but then I could
    have glossed over it. The letter at the end of the REN numbers covers
    the "Ringing type" from the notorious Table I. A Ringing type A ringer
    is sensitive to 20 Hz +-3 and 30 Hz +-3. A B type ringer is sensitive
    to AC voltage between 15.3 and 68.0 Hz. Just for the curious, a C type
    ringer is sensitive between 15.3 and 17.4 Hz. There are many classes
    of ringers. I know that the class is supposed to refer to the
    frequency coverage, but owing to obscurity in the FCC regs, some labs
    measure type B ringers (Electronic warble type) as a type A so they
    can get a lower REN.

    This does not make it a type A ringer. This makes it a type B ringer
    measured as a type B. Apart from type B, other ringers cover a narrow
    frequency range. This frequency selectivity is sometimes used with
    party lines. It is also one of the factors that limits bell tap in US
    phones. See an earlier posting of mine where I waffle about this. Yes,
    most Type B ringers will also respond to frequencies above 68 Hz, like
    100 Hz.
     
    R-Guy, Jan 12, 2006
    #8
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