Wanna Job?

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Ghost, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Guest

    What is wrong with people these days?

    I have been trying to hire a technician for a few weeks now, and I am
    thoroughly disgusted with applicants.

    I am pretty well convinced I have these people nailed down by now. They
    either A) do not want a job, and/or B) if you force them to take a job
    they want tons of money, and not to have any responsibilities- or even
    basic competancies.

    Half the people have no resume- even after they call first and are told to
    get a resume together and bring it in, they come in with no resume.

    One guy brought in his resume on a disk- because he has no printer. He
    expected me to print it out- "and oh by the way, can you print me out a
    few more copies please".

    Some of the resumes are clearly crap. Esthecially they have spelling
    errors, formatting errors, and other stuff that makes them look like crap.

    Other resumes are so damned padded it is glaringly obvious. Most of them
    list some of their experienced skills as being able to confiure NetBeui.
    Really? So, tell me, just how hard is it to configure NetBeui? Anything
    else on these resumes are immediately dismissed as just so much bullshit.

    Few of them have been on time for interviews. Most come in 15-30 minutes
    late, but some coming in hours after the set appointment.

    One girl had no experience, little training, and a very low skill set.
    She wanted $15 and hour and full benefits.

    One guy had not taken a bath in a while. His hair was very unkempt,
    dirty, and oily. He smelled- bad!

    One guy had shorts and sandals.

    One guy does not have a closet. Well, I am guessing about that part
    because his clothes were very wrinkled- so I figure he stores his clothes
    on the floor- in a ball.

    One guy weighed about 400+ pounds- and his clothes were for a 300
    pounder. His shirt was straining at all the buttons, with the bottom part
    of his shirt outside of his pants and his belly showing. His pants were
    below his hips- because they did not fit up higher. He also came in
    without a resume.

    One kid was a high school student. He had no experience or training, but
    he "knew everything about computers". He had no transportation, did not
    get out of class until after 3pm (we close at 5pm), and he wanted 10 bucks
    an hour. He failed the pre-employment questionnaire miserably. So much
    for knowing everything about computers.

    Two applicants spoke very little English. I asked one what he knew and he
    told me Windows 95. I asked him if he had any certifications. "yes".
    "What certs do you have?" "yes" "You are certified?" "Yes" "In what?"
    "yes. Windows 95" "Really?" "yes" "you are certified in windows 95?"
    "yes" "By who?" "yes" "Who certified you?" "Yes"

    One guy lived about 90 minutes away, and had 6 kids. How in the hell am I
    going to pay someone enough to travel 90 minutes one way, and be able to
    support 6 kids and a wife?

    So, here it is- in a nutshell. If you really want a job, here are some
    hints for you all.

    First, take a shower. Use soap!

    Next, put on fresh clothing. Make sure they are clean and pressed. No, I
    do not expect a suit, but I do expect a professional appearance. Do not
    wear shorts. Do not wear a T-Shirt. You are appling for a professional
    position. Dress the part!

    Third, be prepared. Get a damned resume together. Proof-read it.
    Correct any errors. Make sure you do not pad it. Most hiring
    professionals can smell bullshit pretty far away. When you brag about how
    good you are on NetBuei, I call that a clue. Chances are- you dont know
    shit. If you did, you would know that NetBeui is self-configuring, and
    also not used much anymore!`

    Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
    qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.

    Fifth, if you get a job, do not expect to make your first million in the
    first few weeks. Expect to work hard.

    Sixth- be on time! Do I need to go into this one?

    Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to this
    country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want to
    encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
    anyone here.. lol

    Look- all of the above tells me about you. I have a few short minutes to
    assess you for a position. In those few minutes, I need to see you are
    sharp, reliable, intelligent, responsible, reliable, and professional. If
    you cannot follow simple directions like "Bring in your resume" then you
    will not be able to follow direction in the shop. If you come in looking
    like a pig, then you have no self respect, or no respect for others. If
    you cannot make it to the interview on time, you will not make it to work
    on time.
     
    Ghost, Aug 27, 2003
    #1
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  2. Ghost

    Techie Guest

    Ghost,
    Although I generally agree with the majority of your comments and posts on
    this subject so please don't take this as a flame. I find myself wondering
    if you are not causing your own problems.

    Yes, I understand that there are numerous other costs outside of payroll to
    you as the owner of the business which may or may not be covered by the
    billable work of your shop. However, in order to attract and keep qualified
    people you have to offer a living wage otherwise you will have a revolving
    door of people working for you. Since you started this topic you have never
    once said what the pay is for this position only how dumb and incompetent
    the applicants are.

    As for your hints on getting a job, number 5 "Fifth, if you get a job, do
    not expect to make your first million in the
    first few weeks. Expect to work hard." is out to lunch and if this is your
    position when hiring it probably explains why you are having so much
    problems filling your position.

    I was unemployed for 6 months earlier this year, and had to deal with
    companies offering non-livable wages and saying the same things you are
    about not being able to find qualified applicants but not willing to
    understand that in order to attract good people it is going to cost you
    money. In my case I landed a network admin job with a company to replace a
    braindumper who screwed everything up in his 9 months on the job, so I have
    been cleaning it all up and after 2 months on the job and almost walking out
    the door over poor pay, I got a $10,000 raise because they finally realized
    quality people cost money.

    "Ghost" <> wrote in message
    news:user-2608032303350001@1.0.0.101...
    > What is wrong with people these days?
    >
    > I have been trying to hire a technician for a few weeks now, and I am
    > thoroughly disgusted with applicants.
    >
    > I am pretty well convinced I have these people nailed down by now. They
    > either A) do not want a job, and/or B) if you force them to take a job
    > they want tons of money, and not to have any responsibilities- or even
    > basic competancies.
    >
    > Half the people have no resume- even after they call first and are told to
    > get a resume together and bring it in, they come in with no resume.
    >
    > One guy brought in his resume on a disk- because he has no printer. He
    > expected me to print it out- "and oh by the way, can you print me out a
    > few more copies please".
    >
    > Some of the resumes are clearly crap. Esthecially they have spelling
    > errors, formatting errors, and other stuff that makes them look like crap.
    >
    > Other resumes are so damned padded it is glaringly obvious. Most of them
    > list some of their experienced skills as being able to confiure NetBeui.
    > Really? So, tell me, just how hard is it to configure NetBeui? Anything
    > else on these resumes are immediately dismissed as just so much bullshit.
    >
    > Few of them have been on time for interviews. Most come in 15-30 minutes
    > late, but some coming in hours after the set appointment.
    >
    > One girl had no experience, little training, and a very low skill set.
    > She wanted $15 and hour and full benefits.
    >
    > One guy had not taken a bath in a while. His hair was very unkempt,
    > dirty, and oily. He smelled- bad!
    >
    > One guy had shorts and sandals.
    >
    > One guy does not have a closet. Well, I am guessing about that part
    > because his clothes were very wrinkled- so I figure he stores his clothes
    > on the floor- in a ball.
    >
    > One guy weighed about 400+ pounds- and his clothes were for a 300
    > pounder. His shirt was straining at all the buttons, with the bottom part
    > of his shirt outside of his pants and his belly showing. His pants were
    > below his hips- because they did not fit up higher. He also came in
    > without a resume.
    >
    > One kid was a high school student. He had no experience or training, but
    > he "knew everything about computers". He had no transportation, did not
    > get out of class until after 3pm (we close at 5pm), and he wanted 10 bucks
    > an hour. He failed the pre-employment questionnaire miserably. So much
    > for knowing everything about computers.
    >
    > Two applicants spoke very little English. I asked one what he knew and he
    > told me Windows 95. I asked him if he had any certifications. "yes".
    > "What certs do you have?" "yes" "You are certified?" "Yes" "In what?"
    > "yes. Windows 95" "Really?" "yes" "you are certified in windows 95?"
    > "yes" "By who?" "yes" "Who certified you?" "Yes"
    >
    > One guy lived about 90 minutes away, and had 6 kids. How in the hell am I
    > going to pay someone enough to travel 90 minutes one way, and be able to
    > support 6 kids and a wife?
    >
    > So, here it is- in a nutshell. If you really want a job, here are some
    > hints for you all.
    >
    > First, take a shower. Use soap!
    >
    > Next, put on fresh clothing. Make sure they are clean and pressed. No, I
    > do not expect a suit, but I do expect a professional appearance. Do not
    > wear shorts. Do not wear a T-Shirt. You are appling for a professional
    > position. Dress the part!
    >
    > Third, be prepared. Get a damned resume together. Proof-read it.
    > Correct any errors. Make sure you do not pad it. Most hiring
    > professionals can smell bullshit pretty far away. When you brag about how
    > good you are on NetBuei, I call that a clue. Chances are- you dont know
    > shit. If you did, you would know that NetBeui is self-configuring, and
    > also not used much anymore!`
    >
    > Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
    > qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.
    >
    > Fifth, if you get a job, do not expect to make your first million in the
    > first few weeks. Expect to work hard.
    >
    > Sixth- be on time! Do I need to go into this one?
    >
    > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to this
    > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want to
    > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
    > anyone here.. lol
    >
    > Look- all of the above tells me about you. I have a few short minutes to
    > assess you for a position. In those few minutes, I need to see you are
    > sharp, reliable, intelligent, responsible, reliable, and professional. If
    > you cannot follow simple directions like "Bring in your resume" then you
    > will not be able to follow direction in the shop. If you come in looking
    > like a pig, then you have no self respect, or no respect for others. If
    > you cannot make it to the interview on time, you will not make it to work
    > on time.
     
    Techie, Aug 27, 2003
    #2
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  3. Ghost

    Adam Ross Guest

    Ghost,
    with an A+ cert. and some experience with computers, including building
    and setting up my own computer, along with exp. with NT4.0 in my last job,
    what can i get as a 1st time entry-level job in this field, maybe be an
    assistant or techie at a small mom-pop shop?
    Can ya help... thanx,

    and ur right money isn't everything, experience and building
    relationships, i think, is much more important, b/c money alone can't really
    get you anywhere, well nowhere you really want to go, anyway.
    Money is the root of all evils, although you shouldn't pay ur
    entry-levelers 5 or 7 dollars/hr, i think 8.50 or better is good enuff for a
    lil' while. It's a much more attractive rate than say, working at
    mcdonald's, altho the more the merrier!!!
     
    Adam Ross, Aug 27, 2003
    #3
  4. Ghost

    Fred Guest

    That's Florida for ya!
    In Florida, 30 minutes late is considered as being on time.
    In NYC, 15-30 minutes early is considered as being on time. :)
     
    Fred, Aug 27, 2003
    #4
  5. Ghost

    Pat Guest

    "Ghost" <> wrote in message
    news:user-2608032303350001@1.0.0.101...
    > What is wrong with people these days?
    >
    > I have been trying to hire a technician for a few weeks now, and I am
    > thoroughly disgusted with applicants.
    >
    > I am pretty well convinced I have these people nailed down by now. They
    > either A) do not want a job, and/or B) if you force them to take a job
    > they want tons of money, and not to have any responsibilities- or even
    > basic competancies.
    >
    > Half the people have no resume- even after they call first and are told to
    > get a resume together and bring it in, they come in with no resume.
    >


    If you want resumes, run an ad on any Sunday in the Pacific Northwest. One
    local contractor did that and got over three hundred responses to his one
    day ad. That was after his admin assistant filtered out the obvious garbage
    and the former execs who really aren't likely to want normal starting wages.

    I work at a convenience store after working at two companies that imploded
    and playing the application games. I work with an electrical engineer and a
    HVAC tech, everyone starts at minimum wage, but minimum's better than none
    even if it's a third of what I made two years ago and probably far less than
    the guy with the BSEE was making.

    I really dislike having to use elderly borders to pay the mortgage though,
    especially blind people with colostomy bags. That's what I get for voting
    for Bush I suppose.
     
    Pat, Aug 27, 2003
    #5
  6. Precisely the reason I never take walk in applicants. You send me a resume,
    and then I will call you if I am interested. Usually takes the first half
    of the shaf away from the wheat.

    --
    Kendal R. Emery, MCSE, Network+, A+, MCNGP #19
    Systems Administrator
    Coordinated Home Care

    remove me to email to me
    "Ghost" <> wrote in message
    news:user-2608032303350001@1.0.0.101...
    > What is wrong with people these days?
    >
    > I have been trying to hire a technician for a few weeks now, and I am
    > thoroughly disgusted with applicants.
    >
    > I am pretty well convinced I have these people nailed down by now. They
    > either A) do not want a job, and/or B) if you force them to take a job
    > they want tons of money, and not to have any responsibilities- or even
    > basic competancies.
    >
    > Half the people have no resume- even after they call first and are told to
    > get a resume together and bring it in, they come in with no resume.
    >
    > One guy brought in his resume on a disk- because he has no printer. He
    > expected me to print it out- "and oh by the way, can you print me out a
    > few more copies please".
    >
    > Some of the resumes are clearly crap. Esthecially they have spelling
    > errors, formatting errors, and other stuff that makes them look like crap.
    >
    > Other resumes are so damned padded it is glaringly obvious. Most of them
    > list some of their experienced skills as being able to confiure NetBeui.
    > Really? So, tell me, just how hard is it to configure NetBeui? Anything
    > else on these resumes are immediately dismissed as just so much bullshit.
    >
    > Few of them have been on time for interviews. Most come in 15-30 minutes
    > late, but some coming in hours after the set appointment.
    >
    > One girl had no experience, little training, and a very low skill set.
    > She wanted $15 and hour and full benefits.
    >
    > One guy had not taken a bath in a while. His hair was very unkempt,
    > dirty, and oily. He smelled- bad!
    >
    > One guy had shorts and sandals.
    >
    > One guy does not have a closet. Well, I am guessing about that part
    > because his clothes were very wrinkled- so I figure he stores his clothes
    > on the floor- in a ball.
    >
    > One guy weighed about 400+ pounds- and his clothes were for a 300
    > pounder. His shirt was straining at all the buttons, with the bottom part
    > of his shirt outside of his pants and his belly showing. His pants were
    > below his hips- because they did not fit up higher. He also came in
    > without a resume.
    >
    > One kid was a high school student. He had no experience or training, but
    > he "knew everything about computers". He had no transportation, did not
    > get out of class until after 3pm (we close at 5pm), and he wanted 10 bucks
    > an hour. He failed the pre-employment questionnaire miserably. So much
    > for knowing everything about computers.
    >
    > Two applicants spoke very little English. I asked one what he knew and he
    > told me Windows 95. I asked him if he had any certifications. "yes".
    > "What certs do you have?" "yes" "You are certified?" "Yes" "In what?"
    > "yes. Windows 95" "Really?" "yes" "you are certified in windows 95?"
    > "yes" "By who?" "yes" "Who certified you?" "Yes"
    >
    > One guy lived about 90 minutes away, and had 6 kids. How in the hell am I
    > going to pay someone enough to travel 90 minutes one way, and be able to
    > support 6 kids and a wife?
    >
    > So, here it is- in a nutshell. If you really want a job, here are some
    > hints for you all.
    >
    > First, take a shower. Use soap!
    >
    > Next, put on fresh clothing. Make sure they are clean and pressed. No, I
    > do not expect a suit, but I do expect a professional appearance. Do not
    > wear shorts. Do not wear a T-Shirt. You are appling for a professional
    > position. Dress the part!
    >
    > Third, be prepared. Get a damned resume together. Proof-read it.
    > Correct any errors. Make sure you do not pad it. Most hiring
    > professionals can smell bullshit pretty far away. When you brag about how
    > good you are on NetBuei, I call that a clue. Chances are- you dont know
    > shit. If you did, you would know that NetBeui is self-configuring, and
    > also not used much anymore!`
    >
    > Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
    > qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.
    >
    > Fifth, if you get a job, do not expect to make your first million in the
    > first few weeks. Expect to work hard.
    >
    > Sixth- be on time! Do I need to go into this one?
    >
    > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to this
    > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want to
    > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
    > anyone here.. lol
    >
    > Look- all of the above tells me about you. I have a few short minutes to
    > assess you for a position. In those few minutes, I need to see you are
    > sharp, reliable, intelligent, responsible, reliable, and professional. If
    > you cannot follow simple directions like "Bring in your resume" then you
    > will not be able to follow direction in the shop. If you come in looking
    > like a pig, then you have no self respect, or no respect for others. If
    > you cannot make it to the interview on time, you will not make it to work
    > on time.
     
    Simon Telrenner, Aug 27, 2003
    #6
  7. Ghost

    NerdBoy Guest

    While we are on the subject of employement, I have a general question for
    those of you who are employers out there .

    I recently obtained my A+ cert (working on Network+) and plan to get a few
    others before I go to college(MCSE, CCIE, maybe Novell).

    I am a homeschooled high schooler, and I have been looking around for
    employment ( not nything really money making, just minimum wage for a little
    extra $$ coming in). I have a person I know who built my PC for me, he runs
    a little mom pop type shop, and he occassionally will take high schoolers on
    for a summer internship. It's not paid, but what I lose in gas money I gain
    in experience. My problem with it is, although I know this guy, have had
    good dealings with him, and his wife said it is probably likely that I would
    get an internship :), he can't offer me a full time position or even part
    time because he is a smaller operation.

    I know that since I am just starting out, my prospects for employement are
    virtually nil. However, I have done resumes before ( just for practice for
    the real thing),and am genreally very comftorble with being "called on the
    carpet" and having to explain myself and my qualifications, so I am
    confident that if it came to that I could make a good impression. I also do
    know the value of taking a bath before an interview and coming dressed
    decently (i.e. no Warcraft forever T-shirts or ripped jeans).

    Given all this, should I try for a job with one of these or just go it alone
    like I have been doing? By which I mean just helping out friends with their
    problems for 10 bucks here and there.
    One plus I can think of is because I homeschool, I can be more flexible with
    my hours, which might be of benefit to an employer.


    Any ideas?
     
    NerdBoy, Aug 27, 2003
    #7
  8. Ghost

    Ghost Guest

    In article <BB33b.1527$2.webusenet.com>, "NerdBoy"
    <> wrote:

    > While we are on the subject of employement, I have a general question for
    > those of you who are employers out there .
    >
    > I recently obtained my A+ cert (working on Network+) and plan to get a few
    > others before I go to college(MCSE, CCIE, maybe Novell).
    >
    > I am a homeschooled high schooler, and I have been looking around for
    > employment ( not nything really money making, just minimum wage for a little
    > extra $$ coming in). I have a person I know who built my PC for me, he runs
    > a little mom pop type shop, and he occassionally will take high schoolers on
    > for a summer internship. It's not paid, but what I lose in gas money I gain
    > in experience. My problem with it is, although I know this guy, have had
    > good dealings with him, and his wife said it is probably likely that I would
    > get an internship :), he can't offer me a full time position or even part
    > time because he is a smaller operation.
    >
    > I know that since I am just starting out, my prospects for employement are
    > virtually nil. However, I have done resumes before ( just for practice for
    > the real thing),and am genreally very comftorble with being "called on the
    > carpet" and having to explain myself and my qualifications, so I am
    > confident that if it came to that I could make a good impression. I also do
    > know the value of taking a bath before an interview and coming dressed
    > decently (i.e. no Warcraft forever T-shirts or ripped jeans).
    >
    > Given all this, should I try for a job with one of these or just go it alone
    > like I have been doing? By which I mean just helping out friends with their
    > problems for 10 bucks here and there.
    > One plus I can think of is because I homeschool, I can be more flexible with
    > my hours, which might be of benefit to an employer.
    >
    >
    > Any ideas?




    I think an internship could do you a world of good- much more than going
    it alone... Forst, you will have a greater range of equipment with a
    larger variety of problems, and more of them. Working for your friends
    here and there will not give you the experience you need.

    good luck!

    Oh, and in my book, home schooling is a plus- we home school our kids...
     
    Ghost, Aug 28, 2003
    #8
  9. Ghost

    Ghost Guest

    In article <>,
    wrote:

    > On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:35:42 -0400, "Adam Ross"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Ghost,
    > > with an A+ cert. and some experience with computers, including building
    > >and setting up my own computer, along with exp. with NT4.0 in my last job,
    > >what can i get as a 1st time entry-level job in this field, maybe be an
    > >assistant or techie at a small mom-pop shop?
    > >Can ya help... thanx,
    > >
    > > and ur right money isn't everything, experience and building
    > >relationships, i think, is much more important, b/c money alone can't really
    > >get you anywhere, well nowhere you really want to go, anyway.
    > > Money is the root of all evils, although you shouldn't pay ur
    > >entry-levelers 5 or 7 dollars/hr, i think 8.50 or better is good enuff for a
    > >lil' while. It's a much more attractive rate than say, working at
    > >mcdonald's, altho the more the merrier!!!
    > >

    > All of this also depends on the person's requirements for living
    > comfortably...single, young, etc, is not the same as old and
    > Married...with children.
    >
    > Ghost...have you had a candidate who almost made the grade, and could
    > be worth a month or 5 weeks of hand-holding (maybe less if he/she is
    > very keen)? A resonsible individual, lacking a bit of technical savvy,
    > perhaps, but keen and honest? I'd hire a person like that in the blink
    > of an eye. Sometimes a person's ability to research and dig is more
    > important than having all of the knowledge right there.
    >
    > Tom


    Absolutley I would hire someone with limited skills- as long as they have
    abasic understandong of computers. They should know how to format a drive
    or install windows or a modem- things like that. If they have a bsaic
    knowledge, i can train them further.
     
    Ghost, Aug 28, 2003
    #9
  10. Ghost

    NerdBoy Guest

    Nice to see someone else that does :) I was seriously considering the
    internship first and then a job for a while. What I would really eventually
    like to do is start my own training/ consulting business, but I would have
    trouble doing that out here because the local colleges offer PC courses at
    like ten bucks a class, and I can't go much below that and still justify my
    cost of operating, as far as I know. But that is a year or two (or more!!!)
    years down the road.
     
    NerdBoy, Aug 28, 2003
    #10
  11. Ghost

    Ghost Guest

    In article <AUf3b.6518$>,
    "Firebird81" <> wrote:

    > Take the Internship! I would kill to find a kid I could train up and turn
    > into a self-supporting entrepreneur. Tell the guy what your goals are from
    > the get-go and he can help make sure you get the experience in all the
    > different areas you need to run your own business. It will also impress the
    > hell out of him.
    >
    > Ghost, I actually quit going to PC job interviews after leaving my last
    > technician job ( a job of 5 years), because there were 50 other guys, most
    > of whom knew jack crap about computers and looked about like you described.
    > I got so fed up with it, I decided to take a break from the industry for a
    > while and do construction. Have you considered using a headhunter's service?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "NerdBoy" <> wrote in message
    > news:J7e3b.2155$2.webusenet.com...
    > > Nice to see someone else that does :) I was seriously considering the
    > > internship first and then a job for a while. What I would really

    > eventually
    > > like to do is start my own training/ consulting business, but I would have
    > > trouble doing that out here because the local colleges offer PC courses at
    > > like ten bucks a class, and I can't go much below that and still justify

    > my
    > > cost of operating, as far as I know. But that is a year or two (or

    > more!!!)
    > > years down the road.
    > >
    > >
    > >


    I am not too much a fan of headhunter services... I recall my days of
    looking for a job and visiting with all the headhunters around...
     
    Ghost, Aug 28, 2003
    #11
  12. Ghost

    lglover Guest

    Ghost,

    Tell me where to apply. I would be willing to do an intership on Fridays.
    "Ghost" <> wrote in message
    news:user-2808030853430001@1.0.0.101...
    > In article <AUf3b.6518$>,
    > "Firebird81" <> wrote:
    >
    > > Take the Internship! I would kill to find a kid I could train up and

    turn
    > > into a self-supporting entrepreneur. Tell the guy what your goals are

    from
    > > the get-go and he can help make sure you get the experience in all the
    > > different areas you need to run your own business. It will also impress

    the
    > > hell out of him.
    > >
    > > Ghost, I actually quit going to PC job interviews after leaving my last
    > > technician job ( a job of 5 years), because there were 50 other guys,

    most
    > > of whom knew jack crap about computers and looked about like you

    described.
    > > I got so fed up with it, I decided to take a break from the industry for

    a
    > > while and do construction. Have you considered using a headhunter's

    service?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "NerdBoy" <> wrote in message
    > > news:J7e3b.2155$2.webusenet.com...
    > > > Nice to see someone else that does :) I was seriously considering the
    > > > internship first and then a job for a while. What I would really

    > > eventually
    > > > like to do is start my own training/ consulting business, but I would

    have
    > > > trouble doing that out here because the local colleges offer PC

    courses at
    > > > like ten bucks a class, and I can't go much below that and still

    justify
    > > my
    > > > cost of operating, as far as I know. But that is a year or two (or

    > > more!!!)
    > > > years down the road.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    >
    > I am not too much a fan of headhunter services... I recall my days of
    > looking for a job and visiting with all the headhunters around...
    >
     
    lglover, Aug 29, 2003
    #12
  13. Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:40:01 GMT, "Arkady" <> wrote:

    >Dear Ghost, let me tell you a couple of words.
    >
    >You are describing very right things, yet many of things have escaped your
    >attention.
    >
    >>
    >> Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
    >> qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.

    >
    >Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance, I am
    >MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate to my
    >skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question: Am
    >I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?


    I can think of 2 things that will replace the A+...experience with the
    basics of PC repair, or it not being a set-in-stone requirement.

    Universities often have challenge exams, where they allow a person to
    take a course if they pass this exam, without having the normal
    prerequisite.

    Tom
     
    Tom MacIntyre, Aug 30, 2003
    #13
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Guest

    Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)

    In article <56N3b.1026$>, "Arkady"
    <> wrote:

    > Dear Ghost, let me tell you a couple of words.
    >
    > You are describing very right things, yet many of things have escaped your
    > attention.
    >
    > >
    > > Fourth, know your stuff. Do not apply for a position your are not
    > > qualified for. You are wasting my time otherwise.

    >
    > Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance, I am
    > MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate to my
    > skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question: Am
    > I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?


    No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
    skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
    other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
    job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
    qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
    a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.


    >
    > > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to this
    > > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want to
    > > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
    > > anyone here.. lol

    >
    > They are humans too. Let be honest: WE are humans too. There are a plenty of
    > reasons we've moved into USA. My English is self-studying, and it is my 4th
    > language. It is not perfect, indeed. How many languages are You spoken? What
    > should I do to improve my English? I do my best, but without being in
    > working english-speaking environment it is unable to improve the language.
    > Catch-22...


    It is a sad fact, but ever since the Tower of Babyl (if you believe in
    that), we all speak different languages throughout the world. it does not
    mean a non-English speaker is not human, and it does not reflect at all on
    their intelligence level. It does however interfere greatly with
    communication skills. You must be able to understnad customers in person
    and on the phone, asnd they must be able to clearly understand you. Same
    for your co-workers and your boss. We all need to communicate clearly.

    How many times have you heard people complain about calling Compaq, HP and
    Dell tech support. Everyone has a difficult time understanding the help
    desk people- because they are all in India. And although they speak
    English, the accent is often too heavy for Americans to understand them.


    >
    > BTW, if you don't know this, I'll tell you one thing from my experience. I
    > can freely read and write, I can even say... But I am experiencing great
    > difficulties with listening. English pronunciation greatly differs from my
    > native. Should pass some time in english environment. So, be not so flat!
    >
    > Respectful,
    > Arkady
    >
    > PS I am looking for _any_ I.T. work indeed and can't find any. Why? Because
    > I have no American experience. Am I (with my Master Degree in Computer
    > Science) sillier (less sharp, reliable, intelligent, responsible) of native
    > high-school-graduate with A+ certificate? I doubt...


    Perfect example of what I just said- the lack of command of the English
    language- as we understand it here in America- is not a measure of
    intelligence. I am quite sure what ever country you come from has fairly
    high standards for a Masters Degree. That means you must possess a
    modicum of intelligence to reach that level. However, your admitted
    inability to fully master the English language will be a hinderence to you
    until either you do master it, or until you go to someplace where your
    native language is spoken freely.

    I do wish you luck.
     
    Ghost, Aug 30, 2003
    #14
  15. Ghost

    Arkady Guest

    Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)

    I should admit you are right mostly. Yet I disagree with some statements.
    Let me try to explain.

    > > Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance,

    I am
    > > MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate

    to my
    > > skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question:

    Am
    > > I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?

    >
    > No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
    > skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
    > other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
    > job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
    > qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
    > a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.


    If I know how to tune huge network, Active Directory, different wery
    complicated things, how do you think, should I know if I can hook a monitor
    on LPT1 or how to change resolution?! I can't prove I am apt to. Ask me!
    Will you argue MCSE is harder to achieve than A+? I as a recent employer I
    should say a person much more educated and skilled is more flexible and in
    general is fast-lerner, smarter. Yet he will look for more skilled job,
    naturally, but it is an another story...

    > > > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to

    this
    > > > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want

    to
    > > > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
    > > > anyone here.. lol

    > >
    > > They are humans too. Let be honest: WE are humans too. There are a

    plenty of
    > > reasons we've moved into USA. My English is self-studying, and it is my

    4th
    > > language. It is not perfect, indeed. How many languages are You spoken?

    What
    > > should I do to improve my English? I do my best, but without being in
    > > working english-speaking environment it is unable to improve the

    language.
    > > Catch-22...

    >
    > It is a sad fact, but ever since the Tower of Babyl (if you believe in
    > that), we all speak different languages throughout the world. it does not
    > mean a non-English speaker is not human, and it does not reflect at all on
    > their intelligence level. It does however interfere greatly with
    > communication skills. You must be able to understnad customers in person
    > and on the phone, asnd they must be able to clearly understand you. Same
    > for your co-workers and your boss. We all need to communicate clearly.
    >
    > How many times have you heard people complain about calling Compaq, HP and
    > Dell tech support. Everyone has a difficult time understanding the help
    > desk people- because they are all in India. And although they speak
    > English, the accent is often too heavy for Americans to understand them.
    >


    Concerning phone customer support you are 100% right! I will not argue with
    you. But! Regarding understanding of tasks statement for your employees or
    simple conversations -- could you be a little more patient and spend a
    couple minutes to clarify or say the phrase again? As I told before, there
    is catch-22. They have no chances to improve their languages without
    native-speaking environment. Let the salary will be small, probation --
    larger... Give us a chance.

    Anyway, thank you.
    I hope my energies will bear me fruit.

    Arkady

    PS I am from Ukraine (50-mln-country in Europe :)))
     
    Arkady, Aug 30, 2003
    #15
  16. Ghost

    RussS Guest

    Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)

    You have some good points Arkady, however MCSE, CNNA etc, does not actually
    mean that a person is even remotely familiar as to what is inside of a PC or
    server housing. I recently was contracted to assist with an upgrade of a
    network from 9x machines to win2k desktops to match the new servers being
    installed. The System Admin who was MCSE NT4 & Win2000 knew all of the
    minimum specs for Win2k and knew routing TCP/IP security monitoring etc,
    inside and out, however the last machine he had actually worked with hands
    on was a 486 with ISA cards. His knowledge of modern architecture was
    rather lacking, mainly due to the organisation he used to work for had 4 PC
    techs who did all the hands on stuff. I also have a friend who had to go
    overseas to sit some exams? for his doctorate as there was not someone
    suitably qualified in New Zealand to administer them. He can tell me in
    minute detail how every part of a system works and could probably design
    many of the parts, but alas when he built his new machine he just could not
    get it to recognise the hard drive when using cable select - a quick call
    to a dummy like me had him on the right track immediately. has to do with
    skills and experience vs theory and knowledge.
     
    RussS, Aug 30, 2003
    #16
  17. Ghost

    Ghost Guest

    Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)

    In article <_sV3b.1079$>, "Arkady"
    <> wrote:

    > I should admit you are right mostly. Yet I disagree with some statements.
    > Let me try to explain.
    >
    > > > Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance,

    > I am
    > > > MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate

    > to my
    > > > skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question:

    > Am
    > > > I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?

    > >
    > > No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
    > > skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
    > > other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
    > > job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
    > > qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
    > > a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.

    >
    > If I know how to tune huge network, Active Directory, different wery
    > complicated things, how do you think, should I know if I can hook a monitor
    > on LPT1 or how to change resolution?! I can't prove I am apt to. Ask me!
    > Will you argue MCSE is harder to achieve than A+? I as a recent employer I
    > should say a person much more educated and skilled is more flexible and in
    > general is fast-lerner, smarter. Yet he will look for more skilled job,
    > naturally, but it is an another story...
    >



    I will not say MCSE is harder- but it is certainly different. I have had
    applicants that were MCSE that knew nothing about PC architecture, how to
    install drivers, or do diagnostics. There is much more to PC repair than
    hooking up a monitor, LPT1, or changing resolution. While the A+
    certification is not a requirement fr hiring in my shop, it is preferred.
    Someone without any certs can get hired just as easy as someone with
    certs, so long as they demonstrate an ability to do the work, or the
    ability to learn it real fast.


    > > > > Seventh, speak the language! Dammit, why is it so many immigrants to

    > this
    > > > > country refuse to learn the language? Why is it so many liberals want

    > to
    > > > > encourage this? I am *NOT* politically correct- sorry if this shocks
    > > > > anyone here.. lol
    > > >
    > > > They are humans too. Let be honest: WE are humans too. There are a

    > plenty of
    > > > reasons we've moved into USA. My English is self-studying, and it is my

    > 4th
    > > > language. It is not perfect, indeed. How many languages are You spoken?

    > What
    > > > should I do to improve my English? I do my best, but without being in
    > > > working english-speaking environment it is unable to improve the

    > language.
    > > > Catch-22...

    > >
    > > It is a sad fact, but ever since the Tower of Babyl (if you believe in
    > > that), we all speak different languages throughout the world. it does not
    > > mean a non-English speaker is not human, and it does not reflect at all on
    > > their intelligence level. It does however interfere greatly with
    > > communication skills. You must be able to understnad customers in person
    > > and on the phone, asnd they must be able to clearly understand you. Same
    > > for your co-workers and your boss. We all need to communicate clearly.
    > >
    > > How many times have you heard people complain about calling Compaq, HP and
    > > Dell tech support. Everyone has a difficult time understanding the help
    > > desk people- because they are all in India. And although they speak
    > > English, the accent is often too heavy for Americans to understand them.
    > >

    >
    > Concerning phone customer support you are 100% right! I will not argue with
    > you. But! Regarding understanding of tasks statement for your employees or
    > simple conversations -- could you be a little more patient and spend a
    > couple minutes to clarify or say the phrase again? As I told before, there
    > is catch-22. They have no chances to improve their languages without
    > native-speaking environment. Let the salary will be small, probation --
    > larger... Give us a chance.
    >


    English does not have to be perfect or without accent- it needs to be
    understandable. I had two applicants that barely spoke English- they
    spoke sp poorly they dod not understand questions I was asking them in the
    interview- such as who certfied one of them in Win95 after one of them
    told me he was (there is no legitimate Win95 certification).

    As a side note- I had a female applicant- drop dead gorgeous- with a
    beautiful accent- also from Ukraine. She had no experience and no
    training whatsoever. She knew literally nothing of PCs. But she was so
    damned gorgeous I would love to have hired her. Well, except she would
    not be able to do the work, and my wife would have divorced me... lol She
    would have been major trouble!!! lol
     
    Ghost, Aug 30, 2003
    #17
  18. Ghost

    jonny bravo Guest

    Damn Ghost here I am in crappy old Cleveland , about to start at ITT Tech
    for my associates and I
    can't find a job anywhere... plus I know exactly where you building...
    I don't think the pregnant wife will let me transfer to ITT Tampa and work
    down there tho...

    Bummer...
    thinking about how wonderful it would be to work in sunny new port richey
    while attending classes..I think I'm gonna cry...

    Jonny Bravo


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/2003
     
    jonny bravo, Aug 30, 2003
    #18
  19. On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:56:10 GMT, "jonny bravo"
    <> wrote:

    >Damn Ghost here I am in crappy old Cleveland , about to start at ITT Tech
    >for my associates and I
    >can't find a job anywhere... plus I know exactly where you building...
    > I don't think the pregnant wife will let me transfer to ITT Tampa and work
    >down there tho...
    >
    >Bummer...
    >thinking about how wonderful it would be to work in sunny new port richey
    >while attending classes..I think I'm gonna cry...
    >
    >Jonny Bravo


    Different strokes for different folks, I guess...I can't handle the
    heat here in sunny Cape Breton (including humidex, we rarely see 100
    F), and I walk around outdoors in short-sleeved shirts in -30 C and
    colder quite comfortably. My thermostat is broken, I think... :)

    Tom

    >
    >
    >---
    >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    >Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/2003
    >
     
    Tom MacIntyre, Aug 30, 2003
    #19
  20. Re: Wanna Job? (Ghost's attention)

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 04:10:34 GMT, "Arkady" <> wrote:

    >I should admit you are right mostly. Yet I disagree with some statements.
    >Let me try to explain.
    >
    >> > Can you believe some people possess wide range of skills? For instance,

    >I am
    >> > MCSE NT4, MCSE Win2k, MCSA and CCNA. If I can't find any work adequate

    >to my
    >> > skills and am ready to work as PC technician, answer please my question:

    >Am
    >> > I qualified for such job? Will my MCSE 2k replace the lack of A+?

    >>
    >> No, it will not!.. That does not mean however that you do not have the
    >> skill set necessary to do a PC technician's job. The MCSE, CCNA, or any
    >> other of your certificate programs do not train you for a PC technician
    >> job. They train you for other areas of the IT field. Just as I have my
    >> qualifications, I would not presume to apply for a job as a programmer or
    >> a database administrator- because I know nothing about those areas of IT.

    >
    >If I know how to tune huge network, Active Directory, different wery
    >complicated things, how do you think, should I know if I can hook a monitor
    >on LPT1 or how to change resolution?! I can't prove I am apt to. Ask me!
    >Will you argue MCSE is harder to achieve than A+? I as a recent employer I
    >should say a person much more educated and skilled is more flexible and in
    >general is fast-lerner, smarter. Yet he will look for more skilled job,
    >naturally, but it is an another story...


    The poblem here is that you are confusing degrees of difficulty with
    areas of skill/knowledge. Most surgeons can't repair their own cars,
    and most/all auto technicians can't perform surgery. When I was doing
    consumer electronics repair a few years back, we would get a call
    early every summer to go to a certain retired doctor's house to
    reprogram his VCR's, TV's, remote controls, etc. "nuff said, I'd
    say...

    Tom
     
    Tom MacIntyre, Aug 30, 2003
    #20
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