W_tom - we is that $50 whole house protector link?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Leythos, Mar 28, 2007.

  1. Leythos

    Leythos Guest

    Well, w_tom says in numerous posts that Lowes and Home Depot have a cheap
    $50 whole house surge protector available, but, the Lowes website doesn't
    so ANY available at any cost and the Home Depot site shows nothing near
    $50.

    For "some" reson he avoids providing a link to the device he's claimed,
    for many posts, is avaiable to protect everyone's home from surges.

    In case he lies again and says it's there, check it out for yourself:

    www.homedepot.com

    type in "whole house protection" and you will see that there is nothing
    there for $50.

    Now type in (the search box) "surge suppressor" and still nothing for $50.

    Now type in (the search box) "whole house" and pick the "Safety &
    Security" filter - still nothing for $50.

    Based on what I've seen, the Model 4860 from Leviton looks to be the best
    choice, but it's $199.

    What he won't tell you is that you still need a battery backup system for
    your PC to fix the problems most people have - brownouts, loss of power,
    etc... A whole house surge "suppressor" won't keep you from corrupting
    data when the power drops out for a few seconds.

    So, there you go, all the devices on the Home Depot site are well over $50.

    --
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    *** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
    abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
    website ***
    http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
     
    Leythos, Mar 28, 2007
    #1
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  2. Leythos

    Leythos Guest

    On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:51:20 -0500, Leythos wrote:

    > Well, w_tom says in numerous posts that Lowes and Home Depot have a cheap
    > $50 whole house surge protector available, but, the Lowes website doesn't
    > so ANY available at any cost and the Home Depot site shows nothing near
    > $50.
    >
    > For "some" reson he avoids providing a link to the device he's claimed,
    > for many posts, is avaiable to protect everyone's home from surges.
    >
    > In case he lies again and says it's there, check it out for yourself:
    >
    > www.homedepot.com
    >
    > type in "whole house protection" and you will see that there is nothing
    > there for $50.
    >
    > Now type in (the search box) "surge suppressor" and still nothing for $50.
    >
    > Now type in (the search box) "whole house" and pick the "Safety &
    > Security" filter - still nothing for $50.
    >
    > Based on what I've seen, the Model 4860 from Leviton looks to be the best
    > choice, but it's $199.
    >
    > What he won't tell you is that you still need a battery backup system for
    > your PC to fix the problems most people have - brownouts, loss of power,
    > etc... A whole house surge "suppressor" won't keep you from corrupting
    > data when the power drops out for a few seconds.
    >
    > So, there you go, all the devices on the Home Depot site are well over $50.


    Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
    whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?


    --
    Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
    *** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
    abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
    website ***
    http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
     
    Leythos, Mar 28, 2007
    #2
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  3. Leythos

    Robb Guest

    Leythos wrote:

    >Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
    >whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?



    "if you don't get it in fifteen minutes, it ain't there"
    - 1,000,000,000 lawyers on questioning wittness.


    w_tom seems to be overly concerned with what the rest of the
    world isn't in their homes - "facility grounding" and ground pole
    to ground pole impedance measurements:

    http://www.groundperfect.com/DeepEarthPaper.htm

    That's an easy to understand, short evaluation on "earth grounding". It's
    a good (basic) read for anyone interested in this discussion. Inside the U.S.
    our homes aren't data centers, and the odds of losing almost everything you
    own to water ingress aka "a flood", seems to be greater than the same amount
    of damage occurring due to faulty grounds. Add in all the other natural
    disasters that destroy homes and possessions and "ground problems" probably
    fall pretty low on the list of things to be concerned about. Who really has
    flood or "wind driven" object insurance?, not a lot of us..

    IME I'd say grounding problems are a _very low_ priority in our lives,
    aircraft work fairly well without "earthing" so should the analog/digital
    circuits in a pc and it's periphs. A good UPS just might save your machine's
    bacon a few times.

    On the other side of the coin and FWIW;
    I personally lost thousands ($) in computer gear due to lighting strikes
    NEARBY - due to a vendor known defect in a redundant power supply.
    The vendor RMA'd it and disclaimed responsibility. Compare that loss
    to a single flood event, years earlier, one that wiped out 30 years worth
    of possessions (some pricey). Water infected the whole freaking house and
    everything inside was mildew-ed in less than a week, practically everything
    was lost. Computers and home entertainment gear don't mean much when
    your wife is pissed off because her "memorable widgets" are destroyed.
    Life is a bet, sometimes when things fuckup you just have to move on
    and rebuild. There are no guarantees, check the news sites for a building
    in downtown Houston currently burning out of control. I doubt the
    people who use that building give a rats behind if the ground system is
    effective, unless it was a cause for the fire.

    Back to the point.. at home, I have always used Tripp-Lite or APC - UPS and
    let the power company worry about their stuff. It's simple to grab a meter
    and check electric boxes on/in the house, there are plenty of cheap (few buck)
    ground testers that only need to be plugged into a wall socket to indicate
    a ground problem. If you can't "fix" the problem, get around it with a UPS.

    </rant>

    --
    Robb
     
    Robb, Mar 29, 2007
    #3
  4. Leythos

    w_tom Guest

    On Mar 28, 2:41 pm, Leythos <> wrote:
    > Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
    > whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?


    Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
    rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
    http://tinyurl.com/33kyub

    But then Leythos already knew that.
     
    w_tom, Mar 29, 2007
    #4
  5. Leythos

    Leythos Guest

    On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:06:40 -0700, w_tom wrote:

    > On Mar 28, 2:41 pm, Leythos <> wrote:
    >> Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
    >> whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?

    >
    > Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
    > rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
    > http://tinyurl.com/33kyub
    >
    > But then Leythos already knew that.


    Still waiting on you to post the part number and vendor so that we can
    check it out - why do you divert from answering questions directly?

    Still waiting on that link that you can't show.

    --
    Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
    *** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
    abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
    website ***
    http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
     
    Leythos, Mar 29, 2007
    #5
  6. Leythos

    w_tom Guest

    On Mar 28, 8:56 pm, Robb <> wrote:
    > http://www.groundperfect.com/DeepEarthPaper.htm
    > That's an easy to understand, short evaluation on "earth grounding". It's
    > a good (basic) read for anyone interested in this discussion. Inside the U.S.
    > our homes aren't data centers, and the odds of losing almost everything you
    > own to water ingress aka "a flood", seems to be greater than the same amount
    > of damage occurring due to faulty grounds. ...
    >
    > IME I'd say grounding problems are a _very low_ priority in our lives,
    > aircraft work fairly well without "earthing" so should the analog/digital
    > circuits in a pc and it's periphs. A good UPS just might save your machine's
    > bacon a few times.


    No one needs deep earth grounding to massively improve appliance
    protection. Furthermore no plug-in UPS will stop surges that three
    miles of sky could not. Furthermore, the typically computer UPS
    connects a computer direct to AC mains when not in battery backup
    mode. Is the relay protection? Of course not.

    UPSes that do provide protection are building wide units with one
    essential feature - connects short to a building's single point earth
    ground.

    Meanwhile what has been posted about earthing is trivial compared to
    airplanes. Airplane grounding is so complex as to require careful
    design and review. A 707 over MD and a 747 over Spain were destroyed
    due to missing grounding inside the plane. Which point of a plane
    becomes the equivalent of an earth ground? It can be anywhere which
    is why grounding a plane is massively more complex - for surge
    protection. Notice the earth ground in this picture:
    http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/ltg/plane_japan.php
    Next time, it might be from a wingtip. And still that is complex.
    Posted here for building protection is quite simple - and even easier
    if installed when footings for the foundation are poured.

    But that is irrelevant here. Simple protection for household
    electronics: which is not provided by plug-in UPSes, which that UPS
    manufacturer does not even claim to provide, which is inside the
    electronics, and which requires surges be earthed before entering a
    building.

    And not just any earth ground or deep earth grounding. Required is
    single point earthing AND every wire in every cable connected to that
    earthing before entering a building. IOW what a 'whole house'
    protector does and what a plug-in UPS does not even claim to do.

    Protectors or plug-in UPSes don't provide protection. Protection is
    earthing. Effective protectors make the 'less than 10 foot'
    connection to single point earthing.
     
    w_tom, Mar 29, 2007
    #6
  7. Leythos

    Robb Guest

    "w_tom" wrote:

    >Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
    >rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
    > http://tinyurl.com/33kyub


    It's the same crap! Are you copying and pasting your own posts?
    Home Depot, Lowes and apparently no one else has the devices
    => (READ THE POST).

    Home improvement stores don't dot the landscape like McDonalds,
    an online list isn't that hard to do. It would show they handle them
    instead of dragging a person 50+ miles to the store JUST to check.

    Get a quality UPS and test it yourself for a few years. If you don't have
    a damn near direct lightning strike _your_ equipment will be fine.

    Here're the posts, one person "claims" to have bought a sub 50 dollar
    unit locally, but you can't find any online, making them essentially equal
    to vaporware.


    ----------------------

    Old stuff same as the current stuff

    > Bob M View profile
    > More options Jan 22, 12:33 pm
    >
    >Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite.dbs
    >From: Bob M <>
    >Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:33:37 -0600
    >Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 12:33 pm
    >Subject: Re: Surge Protection
    >w_tom wrote:
    >> Dave wrote:

    >
    >>>Short answer, keep what you've got, but remember to replace it with a new
    >>>one every two years (all surge suppressors lose effectiveness over time).
    >>>And regardless of how your equipment is protected, UNPLUG IT during
    >>>thunderstorms and when thunderstorms are predicted. If you spend $1,000,000
    >>>on a surge suppressor, that puppy will be fried by lightning... and
    >>>everything connected to it, as well. ...

    >
    >
    >> Myths are widespread. Why must a plug-in protector be replaced
    >> frequently? Too few joules. By making them undersized, then protector
    >> will fail. The naive then recommend a protector to friends and buy
    >> more only because it smoked. An effective protector is properly sized
    >> - remains functional after a direct lightning strike. But the naive
    >> would not know a surge existed and would not recommend that protector.
    >> Why are they undersized? More sales. Why replace them often? But
    >> undersized means not an effective protector.

    >
    >
    >> Direct lightning strikes average about 20,000 amps. Effective 'whole
    >> house' protectors start at 50,000 amps. These are even sold in Lowes
    >> and Home Depot for less than $50. Facts and numbers explain why we
    >> have installed 'whole house' type protector to earth direct lightning
    >> strikes even long before WWII.

    >
    >
    >
    > Hmmmmmm. Home Depot shows only 1 and it's priced at $199. Please tell
    >me where I can get one for less than $50. Also the protector at HD says
    >it will not protect from lightning strikes.
    >
    > Bob


    ------------------


    >10. Seth View profile
    > More options Jan 22, 5:17 pm
    >Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite.dbs
    >From: "Seth" <>
    >Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:17:01 -0500
    >Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 5:17 pm
    >Subject: Re: Surge Protection
    >"Bob M" <> wrote in message
    >
    >
    >news:...
    >
    >
    >
    >> w_tom wrote:
    >>> Dave wrote:

    >
    >>>>Short answer, keep what you've got, but remember to replace it with a new
    >>>>one every two years (all surge suppressors lose effectiveness over time).
    >>>>And regardless of how your equipment is protected, UNPLUG IT during
    >>>>thunderstorms and when thunderstorms are predicted. If you spend
    >>>>$1,000,000
    >>>>on a surge suppressor, that puppy will be fried by lightning... and
    >>>>everything connected to it, as well. ...

    >
    >
    >>> Myths are widespread. Why must a plug-in protector be replaced
    >>> frequently? Too few joules. By making them undersized, then protector
    >>> will fail. The naive then recommend a protector to friends and buy
    >>> more only because it smoked. An effective protector is properly sized
    >>> - remains functional after a direct lightning strike. But the naive
    >>> would not know a surge existed and would not recommend that protector.
    >>> Why are they undersized? More sales. Why replace them often? But
    >>> undersized means not an effective protector.

    >
    >
    >>> Direct lightning strikes average about 20,000 amps. Effective 'whole
    >>> house' protectors start at 50,000 amps. These are even sold in Lowes
    >>> and Home Depot for less than $50. Facts and numbers explain why we
    >>> have installed 'whole house' type protector to earth direct lightning
    >>> strikes even long before WWII.

    >
    >
    >> Hmmmmmm. Home Depot shows only 1 and it's priced at $199. Please tell me
    >> where I can get one for less than $50. Also the protector at HD says it
    >> will not protect from lightning strikes.

    >
    >
    >
    >Hardly anything will protect from lightening strikes.
    >
    >Home Depot doesn't list all they carry on the website as some items are not
    >available in all locations. I bought my Intermatic panel mouted surge
    >supressor at the Poughkeepsie, NY Home Depot for $47. External unit that
    >mounts to a knock-out on the side of the panel.
    >
    >
    >Couldn't find it at any of the stores surrounding my parents house in Hobe
    >Sound, FL and ended up getting a panel specific unit (actually mounted in a
    >pair of open slots inside the panel) at Lowes for about $60.
    >
    >
    >I also have all the lines coming into my house on a common ground. Cable,
    >power, phone and satellite. SInce putting in the whole house protection
    >I've even gone through less lightbulbs as they (seem) to go out less often.
     
    Robb, Mar 29, 2007
    #7
  8. Leythos

    Robb Guest

    w_tom wrote:
    >On Mar 28, 8:56 pm, Robb <> wrote:
    >> http://www.groundperfect.com/DeepEarthPaper.htm


    <snip redundancies>

    >No one needs deep earth grounding to massively improve appliance
    >protection.


    Have you ever lived in a steel-roofed house? If not I challenge your
    assertion that "no one needs it". Can you prove "no one needs" deep
    ground protection, soil impedance measurement and concurrent
    /normalizing/?


    > Meanwhile what has been posted about earthing is trivial compared to
    >airplanes. Airplane grounding is so complex as to require careful
    >design and review. A 707 over MD and a 747 over Spain were destroyed
    >due to missing grounding inside the plane. Which point of a plane
    >becomes the equivalent of an earth ground? It can be anywhere which
    >is why grounding a plane is massively more complex - for surge
    >protection. Notice the earth ground in this picture:


    You really shouldn't explain aircraft circuitry to me.

    Really. Unless you also build aircraft <g>.


    > http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/ltg/plane_japan.php
    >Next time, it might be from a wingtip. And still that is complex.
    >Posted here for building protection is quite simple - and even easier
    >if installed when footings for the foundation are poured.


    That was part of the point.

    >IOW what a 'whole house' protector does and what a plug-in UPS
    >does not even claim to do.


    Juice is clamped by the UPS's. MOV's are intended to self-destruct doing
    their job.


    --
    Robb
     
    Robb, Mar 29, 2007
    #8
  9. Leythos

    bud-- Guest

    On Mar 28, 8:06 pm, "w_tom" <> wrote:
    > On Mar 28, 2:41 pm, Leythos <> wrote:
    >
    > > Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
    > > whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?

    >
    > Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
    > rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
    > http://tinyurl.com/33kyub
    >
    > But then Leythos already knew that.



    Lethos and I both looked online at Lowes (no service panel surge
    protectors) and Home Depot (no protectors near $50). But then w_
    already knew that. Caught in what is now clearly a lie, w_ posts
    irrelevant information from the past.

    And neither surge protectors at Home Depot had any specs. By w_'s
    standards they are junk. Or do you recommend susppressors with no
    specs now?

    So w_, are $50 suppressors available? Now? Where? Inquiring minds
    want to know.

    --
    bud--
     
    bud--, Mar 29, 2007
    #9
  10. Leythos

    bud-- Guest

    On Mar 28, 8:31 pm, "w_tom" <> wrote:

    > Meanwhile what has been posted about earthing is trivial compared to
    > airplanes. Airplane grounding is so complex as to require careful
    > design and review.

    But "no earth ground means no effective protection." Do they drag an
    earthing chain??

    >
    > Protectors or plug-in UPSes don't provide protection. Protection is
    > earthing. Effective protectors make the 'less than 10 foot'
    > connection to single point earthing.

    Both the IEEE guide on surges and surge protection at
    http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf
    and the NIST guide at:
    http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf
    say plug-in surge suppressors are effective.

    UPSs may or may not have that protection included. If included, they
    should be listed under UL 1449.

    Still missing - a link that says plug-in suppressors are not
    effective. Maybe it got misplaced with the $50 service panel
    suppressor link??

    --
    bud--
     
    bud--, Mar 29, 2007
    #10
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