VoIP rate comparison

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Joel, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. Joel

    Joel Guest

    Hi,
    We have recently extended our phone rate comparison database to include
    VoIP. So far we only have a small number of companies' rates: this will
    grow with time.
    I would be interested in comments, and in whether we are missing
    people's favourite VoIP providers.
    Joel
    --
    Joel Feinstein, Nottingham UK, http://www.ourfavouritecompanies.com
    Joel, Jun 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. Joel

    Ivor Jones Guest

    Joel wrote:
    > Hi,
    > We have recently extended our phone rate comparison database to
    > include VoIP. So far we only have a small number of companies'
    > rates: this will grow with time.
    > I would be interested in comments, and in whether we are missing
    > people's favourite VoIP providers.
    > Joel


    I notice that it quotes different rates (0.5p/min & 1.4p/min) for calls to
    US landlines/mobiles. As there is no way of telling whether a US number is
    a landline or a mobile, why the different rates..?

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jun 6, 2005
    #2
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  3. Joel

    Joel Guest

    Ivor Jones wrote:
    > I notice that it quotes different rates (0.5p/min & 1.4p/min) for calls to
    > US landlines/mobiles. As there is no way of telling whether a US number is
    > a landline or a mobile, why the different rates..?
    >
    > Ivor

    On this issue I prefer to quote the rate claimed by the companies. I
    agree that it makes no sense that they claim the rates are different.
    Joel
    --
    Joel Feinstein, Nottingham UK, http://www.ourfavouritecompanies.com
    Joel, Jun 6, 2005
    #3
  4. Joel wrote:
    > Hi,
    > We have recently extended our phone rate comparison database to include
    > VoIP. So far we only have a small number of companies' rates: this will
    > grow with time.
    > I would be interested in comments, and in whether we are missing
    > people's favourite VoIP providers.


    please include us! www.gradwell.com/voip/callcosts

    thanks
    peter
    Peter Gradwell, Jun 8, 2005
    #4
  5. Joel

    Jason Guest

    On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:14:45 +0100, Peter Gradwell
    <> wrote:

    >Joel wrote:
    >> We have recently extended our phone rate comparison database to include
    >> VoIP. So far we only have a small number of companies' rates: this will
    >> grow with time.
    >> I would be interested in comments, and in whether we are missing
    >> people's favourite VoIP providers.

    >
    >please include us! www.gradwell.com/voip/callcosts


    Oh dear! From http://www.gradwell.com/voip/

    "We offer complete UK wide coverage with phone numbers in every area
    code, plus 0870, 0800 and 0845, so you can have a real 01 or 02 number
    [...]
    London - 0207"

    Are you going to offer new 0203 numbers too? ;-)

    --

    Cheers,

    Jason.

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?
    Jason, Jun 8, 2005
    #5
  6. Joel

    Joel Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > please include us! www.gradwell.com/voip/callcosts
    >
    > thanks
    > peter

    Hi Peter,
    Can you send me a file with rates in tab or comma delimited format?
    Currently we are basing the comparison on the most expensive rate to
    the country's landlines rather than the cheapest. Perhaps in the future
    we will develop, in addition, a more detailed database based on more
    digits of the phone number, but for the moment we are sticking to one
    VoIP rate per country/country mobile. (So far the international VoIP
    rates for the companies in our database are all 24/7.)
    Joel
    --
    Joel Feinstein, Nottingham UK, http://www.ourfavouritecompanies.com
    Joel, Jun 8, 2005
    #6
  7. > Oh dear! From http://www.gradwell.com/voip/
    >
    > "We offer complete UK wide coverage with phone numbers in every area
    > code, plus 0870, 0800 and 0845, so you can have a real 01 or 02 number
    > [...]
    > London - 0207"
    >
    > Are you going to offer new 0203 numbers too? ;-)


    You have no idea how man people ring us up and go "can you do me 020
    7..." if we don't put that. Sad, but true.

    peter

    --
    peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
    -- engineering & hosting services for email, web and voip --
    -- http://www.peter.me.uk/ -- http://www.voip.org.uk/ --
    Peter Gradwell, Jun 8, 2005
    #7
  8. Joel

    Matt Guest

    Joel wrote:
    > We have recently extended our phone rate comparison database to include
    > VoIP. So far we only have a small number of companies' rates: this will
    > grow with time.


    There are a few of these now (you list one of your competitors on your
    home page) and I must admit I've had a bash at this myself (*VERY* basic
    POC - http://www.voipcost.org.uk/). The idea that I was toying with was
    an Asterisk AGI script can query in real-time the best provider for an
    international number (hence the POC web page). Some other sites have an
    application that allows 'off-line' (non-PBX) lookups but I haven't seen
    one that went as far as the AGI script.

    I wonder where this takes the market if you can always use the cheapest
    provider then everyone will end up charging the same (and every provider
    probably losing money).


    Matt.
    Matt, Jun 8, 2005
    #8
  9. Joel

    Dave Gill Guest

    Peter Gradwell <> wrote:

    > You have no idea how man people ring us up and go "can you do me 020
    > 7..." if we don't put that. Sad, but true.


    You could at least stick a space in there so that it's 020 7... ;-)

    --
    The From address is a spam-trap, so all replies to the newsgroup please.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be Alert, Your Country Needs More Lerts! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Dave Gill, Jun 8, 2005
    #9
  10. Joel

    Joel Guest

    Matt wrote:
    > I wonder where this takes the market if you can always use the cheapest
    > provider then everyone will end up charging the same (and every provider
    > probably losing money).
    > Matt.

    This hasn't happened yet for ordinary phone rates, and our comparison
    pages have been around for quite a while now. Indeed the Finarea group
    compete with themselves under many names, and their rates (which are
    many and various) can go up or down.
    For phone calls using callthrough companies it is easy to chop and
    change, with no need to sign up for an account. How easy is it to chop
    and change using VoIP?
    Joel
    --
    Joel Feinstein, Nottingham UK, http://www.ourfavouritecompanies.com
    Joel, Jun 8, 2005
    #10
  11. Joel

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Joel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Matt wrote:
    >> I wonder where this takes the market if you can always use the cheapest
    >> provider then everyone will end up charging the same (and every
    >> provider
    >> probably losing money).
    >> Matt.

    > This hasn't happened yet for ordinary phone rates, and our comparison
    > pages have been around for quite a while now. Indeed the Finarea group
    > compete with themselves under many names, and their rates (which are
    > many and various) can go up or down.
    > For phone calls using callthrough companies it is easy to chop and
    > change, with no need to sign up for an account. How easy is it to chop
    > and change using VoIP?


    There isn't really the need IMHO. If you're calling VoIP to VoIP it's
    mostly free anyway, most suppliers have peering, although not all, but
    it'll come. If calling the PSTN the rates from most are far lower than BT
    or whoever and chopping/changing to save a few pence here and there isn't
    worth the effort IMHO.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Jun 8, 2005
    #11
  12. Joel

    Martin² Guest

    Joel:
    >How easy is it to chop and change using VoIP?


    Dead easy with softphone like Xten Lite, you can have up to 10 VoIP
    providers set up
    and just use which ever is best for the destination, but it's a PITA to keep
    up with all the
    changes e.g. Finarea !
    I presume it's also easy with Asterisk.
    Regards,
    Martin
    Martin², Jun 9, 2005
    #12
  13. Joel

    Matt Guest

    Joel wrote:
    > Matt wrote:
    >
    >>I wonder where this takes the market if you can always use the cheapest
    >>provider then everyone will end up charging the same (and every provider
    >>probably losing money).
    >>Matt.

    >
    > This hasn't happened yet for ordinary phone rates, and our comparison
    > pages have been around for quite a while now. Indeed the Finarea group
    > compete with themselves under many names, and their rates (which are
    > many and various) can go up or down.
    > For phone calls using callthrough companies it is easy to chop and
    > change, with no need to sign up for an account. How easy is it to chop
    > and change using VoIP?


    Point is that for traditional PSTN calls you had to look up the number
    in advance to find the cheapest provider. That may be practical for an
    individual who makes only a few calls but a SME may not be able or
    willing to do this for each call.
    Now what if your (VOIP) PBX could take the number, lookup the cheapest
    rate on the fly and make a call using that provider? You would need a
    reasonable number of providers (4 maybe?) but when with no set-up charge
    this is not a problem - all you have to do is keep credit on all the
    accounts.
    That's why I asked the question about the price comparison sites
    impacting provider profitability.


    Matt.
    Matt, Jun 10, 2005
    #13
  14. Joel

    B.M. Wright Guest

    Matt <> wrote:
    > Joel wrote:
    > > Matt wrote:
    > >
    > >>I wonder where this takes the market if you can always use the cheapest
    > >>provider then everyone will end up charging the same (and every provider
    > >>probably losing money).
    > >>Matt.

    > >
    > > This hasn't happened yet for ordinary phone rates, and our comparison
    > > pages have been around for quite a while now. Indeed the Finarea group
    > > compete with themselves under many names, and their rates (which are
    > > many and various) can go up or down.
    > > For phone calls using callthrough companies it is easy to chop and
    > > change, with no need to sign up for an account. How easy is it to chop
    > > and change using VoIP?


    > Point is that for traditional PSTN calls you had to look up the number
    > in advance to find the cheapest provider. That may be practical for an
    > individual who makes only a few calls but a SME may not be able or
    > willing to do this for each call.
    > Now what if your (VOIP) PBX could take the number, lookup the cheapest
    > rate on the fly and make a call using that provider? You would need a
    > reasonable number of providers (4 maybe?) but when with no set-up charge
    > this is not a problem - all you have to do is keep credit on all the
    > accounts.


    I already started a thread on voipuser.org about this a while
    back. Basically, I wanted to know if SIP supported querying the cost of
    the call before making it, you could do exactly as you said. Some other
    person tried to argue that it would be "prohibitively expensive for the
    provider to implement such a complicated system". I say, that's
    rubbish, it's not so complicated when they already have database of
    exactly how they charge. SIP would have to support a simple
    conversation of "how much to call +xxxxxx?" with a reply from their end
    after it did a simple database lookup. I doubt this database would be
    very large by todays standards, so it would probably take a fraction of a
    second to do the lookup and respond. He argued on about how the rates
    are published, don't change much, blah blah blah, and I decided it
    wasn't worth my time arguing the point so the thread died. Personally,
    I think the rates are quite poorly published and this would be a good
    safeguard against getting ripped off (i.e. the companies that lump ANY
    UK number starting with 8, including 0800, into "mobile" rates)
    B.M. Wright, Jun 12, 2005
    #14
  15. Joel

    Tony Hoyle Guest

    B.M. Wright wrote:
    > I already started a thread on voipuser.org about this a while
    > back. Basically, I wanted to know if SIP supported querying the cost of
    > the call before making it, you could do exactly as you said. Some other


    It's a great idea.. I've always wondered why it wasn't done.

    You just have someone who's effectively a call broker.. you post a
    request 'I want to call X' and it tells you the top 5 cheapest
    providers (or whatever, depending on the request). It's then up to you
    to make your choice. This could be based on SIP, XML-RPC, whatever...
    just as long as there's a client to get the information.

    For a time I worked for a bandwidth broker that did the same kind of
    thing with leased lines.. the customers liked them because they'd save
    an average 30% (one saved 90%!!) and the telcos liked them because they
    pushed business their way that they wouldn't have otherwise got.

    Tony
    Tony Hoyle, Jun 12, 2005
    #15
  16. Joel

    Martin² Guest

    Voipbuster tells you the cost as soon as you dial, usually ZERO cents per
    minute, but one time
    it said 24 cents and I promptly disconnected (not sure what No I dialled ?).
    However I made a test call to my mobile which I did not answer but was
    charged 18cents :-(

    >You just have someone who's effectively a call broker.. you post a
    >request 'I want to call X' and it tells you the top 5 cheapest
    >providers (


    Niftylist.com does that for PSTN, perhaps they could do it for VoIP but of
    course (at the moment) you can't easily use different VoIP provider for
    every destination.
    Regards,
    Martin
    Martin², Jun 12, 2005
    #16
  17. Joel

    Tony Hoyle Guest

    Martin² wrote:
    >> course (at the moment) you can't easily use different VoIP provider for

    > every destination.


    Why not? I do...

    I just have to update the list manually at the moment. An automatic
    system would be much nicer.

    Tony
    Tony Hoyle, Jun 15, 2005
    #17
  18. Joel

    Tony Hoyle Guest

    Martin² wrote:
    > Niftylist.com does that for PSTN, perhaps they could do it for VoIP but of


    No it doesn't, you misunderstand :)

    I'm not looking for a website thst lists prices. I'm talking about an
    automatic brokering system that's tied into your PBX or (possibly) ATA
    and tells it the cheapest route as you dial.

    Tony
    Tony Hoyle, Jun 15, 2005
    #18
  19. Joel

    Matt Guest

    Tony Hoyle wrote:
    > I'm not looking for a website thst lists prices. I'm talking about an
    > automatic brokering system that's tied into your PBX or (possibly) ATA
    > and tells it the cheapest route as you dial.


    Did you see my first post in this thread?


    Matt.
    Matt, Jun 15, 2005
    #19
  20. Joel

    sarthak5

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    betamax rates are the cheapest

    See this page for the latest pricing and comparison under betamax, backsla.sh slash betamax
    sarthak5, Jun 18, 2009
    #20
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