VoIP functionality in Nokia N95 disabled ==

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Anti Spam Bloke, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. REPORTS HAVE reached the INQ that two of the UK's mobile network operators -
    Orange & Vodafone - have disabled the Internet telephony option inside the
    latest N95 cameraphone.
    A spokesman for Orange confirmed to the INQ that his company had indeed
    requested that Nokia shouldn't preload the Internet telephony capability.

    He claimed that the move wasn't deliberately aimed at stopping Internet
    telephony, rather that there hadn't been sufficient time to test the
    application thoroughly.

    "It is not Orange's policy to remove VoIP functionality from devices. This a
    handset specific issue and in this particular instance Orange was asked by
    Nokia whether they wanted the VoIP functionality switched on or off, and
    Orange selected off."

    "We're always working to ensure the customer has the right experience," he
    maintained. He couldn't confirm whether the facility has been turned off
    with the Nokia E65 but it is available with the E60.

    James Tagg, a spokesperson for VoIP client software supplier, Truphone, told
    the INQ, "Clearly this is deeply irritating for people who've often paid a
    large sum of money for a highly-specified phone that they've carefully
    chosen. Particularly if mobile internet telephony was one of the buying
    criteria."

    The crucial point is whether or not customers have not been told at point of
    sale about the removal of internet telephony capability.

    Various Internet forums are ablaze with postings on this issue. For those
    who want VoIP on their N95, the solution is to flash a completely different
    version of the handset's operating system.

    Of course, if you tried such a trick and failed, then you'd have a
    completely useless but expensive handset on your hands. µ

    http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39040
    Anti Spam Bloke, Apr 19, 2007
    #1
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  2. Anti Spam Bloke

    andy Guest

    On Apr 19, 1:15 pm, "Anti Spam Bloke" <>
    wrote:
    > REPORTS HAVE reached the INQ that two of the UK's mobile network operators -
    > Orange & Vodafone - have disabled the Internet telephony option inside the
    > latest N95 cameraphone.
    > A spokesman for Orange confirmed to the INQ that his company had indeed
    > requested that Nokia shouldn't preload the Internet telephony capability.
    >
    > He claimed that the move wasn't deliberately aimed at stopping Internet
    > telephony, rather that there hadn't been sufficient time to test the
    > application thoroughly.
    >
    > "It is not Orange's policy to remove VoIP functionality from devices. This a
    > handset specific issue and in this particular instance Orange was asked by
    > Nokia whether they wanted the VoIP functionality switched on or off, and
    > Orange selected off."
    >
    > "We're always working to ensure the customer has the right experience," he
    > maintained. He couldn't confirm whether the facility has been turned off
    > with the Nokia E65 but it is available with the E60.
    >
    > James Tagg, a spokesperson for VoIP client software supplier, Truphone, told
    > the INQ, "Clearly this is deeply irritating for people who've often paid a
    > large sum of money for a highly-specified phone that they've carefully
    > chosen. Particularly if mobile internet telephony was one of the buying
    > criteria."
    >
    > The crucial point is whether or not customers have not been told at point of
    > sale about the removal of internet telephony capability.
    >
    > Various Internet forums are ablaze with postings on this issue. For those
    > who want VoIP on their N95, the solution is to flash a completely different
    > version of the handset's operating system.
    >
    > Of course, if you tried such a trick and failed, then you'd have a
    > completely useless but expensive handset on your hands. µ
    >
    > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39040


    On Apr 19, 1:15 pm, "Anti Spam Bloke" <>
    wrote:
    > REPORTS HAVE reached the INQ that two of the UK's mobile network operators -
    > Orange & Vodafone - have disabled the Internet telephony option inside the
    > latest N95 cameraphone.
    > A spokesman for Orange confirmed to the INQ that his company had indeed
    > requested that Nokia shouldn't preload the Internet telephony capability.
    >
    > He claimed that the move wasn't deliberately aimed at stopping Internet
    > telephony, rather that there hadn't been sufficient time to test the
    > application thoroughly.
    >
    > "It is not Orange's policy to remove VoIP functionality from devices. This a
    > handset specific issue and in this particular instance Orange was asked by
    > Nokia whether they wanted the VoIP functionality switched on or off, and
    > Orange selected off."
    >
    > "We're always working to ensure the customer has the right experience," he
    > maintained. He couldn't confirm whether the facility has been turned off
    > with the Nokia E65 but it is available with the E60.
    >
    > James Tagg, a spokesperson for VoIP client software supplier, Truphone, told
    > the INQ, "Clearly this is deeply irritating for people who've often paid a
    > large sum of money for a highly-specified phone that they've carefully
    > chosen. Particularly if mobile internet telephony was one of the buying
    > criteria."
    >
    > The crucial point is whether or not customers have not been told at point of
    > sale about the removal of internet telephony capability.
    >
    > Various Internet forums are ablaze with postings on this issue. For those
    > who want VoIP on their N95, the solution is to flash a completely different
    > version of the handset's operating system.
    >
    > Of course, if you tried such a trick and failed, then you'd have a
    > completely useless but expensive handset on your hands. µ
    >
    > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39040


    On Apr 19, 1:15 pm, "Anti Spam Bloke" <>
    wrote:
    > REPORTS HAVE reached the INQ that two of the UK's mobile network operators -
    > Orange & Vodafone - have disabled the Internet telephony option inside the
    > latest N95 cameraphone.
    > A spokesman for Orange confirmed to the INQ that his company had indeed
    > requested that Nokia shouldn't preload the Internet telephony capability.
    >
    > He claimed that the move wasn't deliberately aimed at stopping Internet
    > telephony, rather that there hadn't been sufficient time to test the
    > application thoroughly.
    >
    > "It is not Orange's policy to remove VoIP functionality from devices. This a
    > handset specific issue and in this particular instance Orange was asked by
    > Nokia whether they wanted the VoIP functionality switched on or off, and
    > Orange selected off."
    >
    > "We're always working to ensure the customer has the right experience," he
    > maintained. He couldn't confirm whether the facility has been turned off
    > with the Nokia E65 but it is available with the E60.
    >
    > James Tagg, a spokesperson for VoIP client software supplier, Truphone, told
    > the INQ, "Clearly this is deeply irritating for people who've often paid a
    > large sum of money for a highly-specified phone that they've carefully
    > chosen. Particularly if mobile internet telephony was one of the buying
    > criteria."
    >
    > The crucial point is whether or not customers have not been told at point of
    > sale about the removal of internet telephony capability.
    >
    > Various Internet forums are ablaze with postings on this issue. For those
    > who want VoIP on their N95, the solution is to flash a completely different
    > version of the handset's operating system.
    >
    > Of course, if you tried such a trick and failed, then you'd have a
    > completely useless but expensive handset on your hands. µ
    >
    > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39040


    It must be said that some of these journalists are a bit slow - did
    they source it off each other, or did some read it here when I posted
    it 3 days ago?
    andy, Apr 19, 2007
    #2
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  3. Anti Spam Bloke

    Alister Guest

    On 19 Apr, 20:51, andy <> wrote:
    > On Apr 19, 1:15 pm, "Anti Spam Bloke" <>
    > wrote:


    <snip>

    > It must be said that some of these journalists are a bit slow - did
    > they source it off each other, or did some read it here when I posted
    > it 3 days ago?



    I have just had the pleasure of trying to set up an N95 on VOIP.
    The phone was originally bought by my boss from Vodaphone, and as
    reported it came with the
    Internet calls feature removed. As my boss is not one to take this
    sort of restriction quietly, he now has
    a Nokia N95 which has the Internet calls facility fully restored, at
    which point it was handed to me to make it
    work with the company's trixbox.

    I have had partial success, the Nokia will work fine on internal calls
    between extensions, but up to now it
    refuses to work correctly on PSTN calls through the trixbox. The main
    symptoms are a loss of voice
    transmission and call control from the Nokia, which leads me to
    suspect that there is an issue with the codecs
    it is using. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way of altering
    which codecs the phone uses.

    Throughout the fiddling about trying to set the phone up, I have to
    say that its software is not very stable yet.

    I suffered frequent crashes whilst navigating the various menus, even
    settings which had nothing to do with
    VOIP. It reminded me very much of all that is bad about the older
    microsoft operating systems.

    The firmware used is from Nokia themselves, as Vodaphone apparently
    refused to remove or alter their limited version.

    I find it annoying that a company should be allowed to limit
    functionality on a product which they do not manufacture
    simply to force users to be tied to their own services.

    Alister.
    Alister, Apr 24, 2007
    #3
  4. Anti Spam Bloke

    alexd Guest

    Alister wrote:

    > I have just had the pleasure of trying to set up an N95 on VOIP.
    > The phone was originally bought by my boss from Vodaphone, and as
    > reported it came with the
    > Internet calls feature removed. As my boss is not one to take this
    > sort of restriction quietly, he now has
    > a Nokia N95 which has the Internet calls facility fully restored, at
    > which point it was handed to me to make it
    > work with the company's trixbox.


    A colleague of mine asked how to set up his Nokia with Trixbox. The howto I
    pointed him at contained something like 20 screenshots over four pages.
    With my tin-foil hat on, I get the sneaking suspicion that Nokia's biggest
    customers don't want SIP to work.

    > I have had partial success, the Nokia will work fine on internal calls
    > between extensions, but up to now it
    > refuses to work correctly on PSTN calls through the trixbox.


    Type 'asterisk -rc' and look at 'help sip debug'.

    > The main symptoms are a loss of voice transmission and call control from
    > the Nokia, which leads me to suspect that there is an issue with the
    > codecs it is using.


    The call won't even start if the various SIP peers can't negotiate a codec.
    The call control is usually in plain text on port 5060, the actual voice
    streams are RTP on whatever ports it wants to use. Ethereal/Wireshark has
    some good VoIP-related tools in; you can install tcpdump on your Trixbox,
    and scp the output to wherever you've got Ethereal running, to peruse at
    your leisure. That is of course, if you can't get 'sip debug' to show you
    want you want to see.

    > Throughout the fiddling about trying to set the phone up, I have to
    > say that its software is not very stable yet.
    >
    > I suffered frequent crashes whilst navigating the various menus, even
    > settings which had nothing to do with
    > VOIP. It reminded me very much of all that is bad about the older
    > microsoft operating systems.
    >
    > The firmware used is from Nokia themselves, as Vodaphone apparently
    > refused to remove or alter their limited version.


    Are there any third party softphones you can install? Given the horror
    stories I've heard about Nokia's SIP clients, I would be surprised if there
    wasn't a market for one that works.

    > I find it annoying that a company should be allowed to limit
    > functionality on a product which they do not manufacture
    > simply to force users to be tied to their own services.


    I don't have a problem with them modifying the phone as they see fit, with
    the proviso that they give a complete and unabridged list of what they've
    broken on the handset *before* you hand over the readies.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    16:05:19 up 10 days, 20:24, 2 users, load average: 0.44, 0.34, 0.28
    Yes. I'm just guessing.
    alexd, Apr 24, 2007
    #4
  5. Anti Spam Bloke

    Jon Guest

    declared for all the world to hear...
    > I find it annoying that a company should be allowed to limit
    > functionality on a product which they do not manufacture
    > simply to force users to be tied to their own services.


    In that case then may I suggest in future you purchase all of your
    mobiles SIM free and at full cost, and you will avoid such restrictions.

    Thus your boss' N95 would have cost upwards of £700 rather than the
    figure actually paid which suspect would be substantially lower than
    £700.
    --
    Regards
    Jon
    Jon, Apr 24, 2007
    #5
  6. Anti Spam Bloke

    Chris Blunt Guest

    On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:00:31 +0100, Jon <>
    wrote:

    > declared for all the world to hear...
    >> I find it annoying that a company should be allowed to limit
    >> functionality on a product which they do not manufacture
    >> simply to force users to be tied to their own services.

    >
    >In that case then may I suggest in future you purchase all of your
    >mobiles SIM free and at full cost, and you will avoid such restrictions.
    >
    >Thus your boss' N95 would have cost upwards of £700 rather than the
    >figure actually paid which suspect would be substantially lower than
    >£700.


    Do they really sell them for £700 in the UK?

    I just bought a new SIM free N95 in Hong Kong for HK$6,850. That's
    about £435.

    Chris
    Chris Blunt, Apr 25, 2007
    #6
  7. Anti Spam Bloke

    Jon Guest

    declared for all the world to hear...
    > On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:00:31 +0100, Jon <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > declared for all the world to hear...
    > >> I find it annoying that a company should be allowed to limit
    > >> functionality on a product which they do not manufacture
    > >> simply to force users to be tied to their own services.

    > >
    > >In that case then may I suggest in future you purchase all of your
    > >mobiles SIM free and at full cost, and you will avoid such restrictions.
    > >
    > >Thus your boss' N95 would have cost upwards of £700 rather than the
    > >figure actually paid which suspect would be substantially lower than
    > >£700.

    >
    > Do they really sell them for £700 in the UK?
    >
    > I just bought a new SIM free N95 in Hong Kong for HK$6,850. That's
    > about £435.


    Not quite £700 but in that ballpark:

    http://www.expansys.co.uk/
    --
    Regards
    Jon
    Jon, Apr 25, 2007
    #7
  8. Anti Spam Bloke

    mr deo Guest

    "Jon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > declared for all the world to hear...
    > > I find it annoying that a company should be allowed to limit
    > > functionality on a product which they do not manufacture
    > > simply to force users to be tied to their own services.

    >
    > In that case then may I suggest in future you purchase all of your
    > mobiles SIM free and at full cost, and you will avoid such restrictions.
    >
    > Thus your boss' N95 would have cost upwards of £700 rather than the
    > figure actually paid which suspect would be substantially lower than
    > £700.
    > --
    > Regards
    > Jon



    I know this post is a bit dated....
    http://shop.nokia.co.uk/invt/0027025
    nokia sell directly for 549..
    this would put a big shops selling cost probably around 450-480..
    companys dont (99.9% of the time) tell you when your lock'd into a phone,
    but no features of a phone should ever be restricted unless the phone itself
    is rebranded or gets a new unit type.

    you do have to "select" your network when buying phones but I doubt you'll
    find much fine print saying "it's carrier lock'd"
    mr deo, Apr 27, 2007
    #8
  9. Anti Spam Bloke

    Jon Guest

    declared for all the world to
    hear...
    > companys dont (99.9% of the time) tell you when your lock'd into a phone,


    It's common knowledge that most phones in the UK are sold SIM-locked,
    but that's not even the issue here.

    > but no features of a phone should ever be restricted unless the phone itself
    > is rebranded or gets a new unit type.


    We'll have to agree to disagree. It's ok for those of us who are tech-
    savvy and know what VoIP is and how it works, but what about the average
    Joe in the street who sees "internet call" on his phone and wonders what
    it does, and carries on using it over GPRS/3G and runs up a massive data
    bill?

    > you do have to "select" your network when buying phones but I doubt you'll
    > find much fine print saying "it's carrier lock'd"


    I think you'll find it is. For Orange it's clause 12.3.
    --
    Regards
    Jon
    Jon, Apr 27, 2007
    #9
  10. Anti Spam Bloke

    Jon Farmer Guest

    Jon wrote:

    > We'll have to agree to disagree. It's ok for those of us who are tech-
    > savvy and know what VoIP is and how it works, but what about the average
    > Joe in the street who sees "internet call" on his phone and wonders what
    > it does, and carries on using it over GPRS/3G and runs up a massive data
    > bill?


    A couple of my colleagues have N95 phones and I managed to have a quick
    look at them. My opinion is that for the average punter it is going to
    be very complicated to get it to do VoIP over WiFi notwithstanding the
    first step maybe being to get the firmware flashed.

    I currently have a T-COM GSM/Wifi phone on eval which as a breeze to
    setup on both my general SIP service and hosted centrex service.
    Unfortunately the phone is pretty basic in other areas which many people
    see as important such as no 3g and basic camera. Also the SIP stack is
    pretty basic and doesn't seem to light the MWI when sent a NOTIFY.

    I expect that in the months/years to come the support for VoIP over WiFi
    will improve and the main issue will be the networks seeking to restrict
    its use.

    Regards

    Jon
    Jon Farmer, Apr 29, 2007
    #10
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