VoIP all New to me Help required

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by hatchertim@gmail.com, May 23, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Hi there

    I currently have the setup :

    Telewest 2 meg broadband connection
    Netgear FR114P router with print server that I use
    2 computers connected to the router
    Sipgate account
    X-lite softphone all set up and running

    The whole system is great.

    I now want to go one stage further and add a "real" handset that just
    "works" so that my wife can use it easily to test it out with the idea
    of ditching the regular phone line and standing charge that goes with
    it. This is where I need the help from people that have actually used
    the products on the market (please)

    I could go with the Grandstream BudgeTone 101 IP telephone for about
    £50 Is this a good route ? This will however leave me with a wired
    solution which will be seen as a step backwards as we have 1 fixed wire
    handset and dect cordless phones at the moment, are there any
    advantages however this would bring ?

    Next we get into the Analogue phone adapter/gateway/router world and
    now I really need help.

    I could go for the YGW10 or ATA-486 for around the £55 mark, are these
    good units ? could I then use my DECT handsets ? can I use an RJ11
    splitter and use both the fixed wire and DECT handsets ? and do they
    work well (well being no difference from using them on a "regular"
    line).

    Then we get to the ATA-488 this has an added FXO and FXS port, and we
    are up to £95 ish, what will this give me ?

    Finally as far as I can see for "sensible" money I could go for the
    draytek Vigor 2100 VG for £100 ish, this is a router, wireless to boot
    so that would solve another issue that I would sort out in time adding
    VOIP connectivity also (two birds and all that) How does this product
    compare, does it pass the, no difference to the normal telephone test ?
    can I connect the DECT handsets to it ? can I put a regular RJ11
    splitter in it and have one wired handset on my desk and the DECT
    wireless handsets to wander around the house.

    Finally with the last 2 can I use them in conjunction with my current
    router to utilise the printer port which currently is set up and
    working well.

    Money if obviously a factor here, but between all these products I am
    looking at "value for money" is the router "worth" it in terms of ease
    of use, extra functionality etc. (it obviously adds wireless which is a
    bonus). What I don't want to do is spend £50 now, the end up spending
    the £100 later as it does not quite do what I need it to, I am sure we
    have all done things like this in the past !?!

    Or am I missing something and there is something better out there ?

    Thanks in advance for all your help

    Tim.
     
    , May 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    <snip>
    What I don't want to do is spend £50 now, the end up spending
    the £100 later as it does not quite do what I need it to, I am sure we
    have all done things like this in the past !?!

    Or am I missing something and there is something better out there ?

    Thanks in advance for all your help

    Tim.

    Did you not come accross the Sipura SPA-2100 or SPA-2000? (About £80)

    Both very good ATAs that can support 2 Voip accounts & 2 analogue phones.

    Then there's the SPA-1001 (2 voip providers, 1 analogue phone port)
     
    The Cable Guy, May 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. 7 Guest

    wrote:

    > Hi there
    >
    > I currently have the setup :
    >
    > Telewest 2 meg broadband connection
    > Netgear FR114P router with print server that I use
    > 2 computers connected to the router
    > Sipgate account
    > X-lite softphone all set up and running


    > I could go for the YGW10 or ATA-486 for around the £55 mark, are these
    > good units ? could I then use my DECT handsets ? can I use an RJ11


    The 486 has an internal router I think - and since you have one already,
    there is little point to having it. So you could get the cheaper
    286 that doesn't have the router and save some money.

    (Advanced note - newbie here! - I am not an expert on VoIP!)


    > Tim.
     
    7, May 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Guest

    Just found these.

    Do you have any hands on knowledge of these units or the draytek Vigor
    2100 router, this would add wireless, but only one analogue phone, for
    about the same cash, but are they as good ? Based on your post would
    you recommend the Sipura over all the others ?

    Thanks for your help.
     
    , May 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Ivor Jones Guest

    7 wrote:
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Hi there
    >>
    >> I currently have the setup :
    >>
    >> Telewest 2 meg broadband connection
    >> Netgear FR114P router with print server that I use
    >> 2 computers connected to the router
    >> Sipgate account
    >> X-lite softphone all set up and running

    >
    >> I could go for the YGW10 or ATA-486 for around the £55 mark, are
    >> these good units ? could I then use my DECT handsets ? can I use
    >> an RJ11

    >
    > The 486 has an internal router I think - and since you have one
    > already, there is little point to having it. So you could get the
    > cheaper 286 that doesn't have the router and save some money.
    >
    > (Advanced note - newbie here! - I am not an expert on VoIP!)
    >
    >
    >> Tim.


    The Sipura 1001 or 2000 are far better products than any of the
    Grandstream range. Both have capacity for two accounts/phone numbers, the
    1001 has a single phone port and you switch between the two numbers with
    codes, the 2000 has two physical sockets into which you plug two phones.
    Which you choose depends on your needs, for example would you need to be
    able to use both lines at the same time, by two different people..? If so
    the 1001 would be no use.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, May 23, 2005
    #5
  6. Ivor Jones wrote:
    || 7 wrote:
    ||| wrote:
    |||
    |||| Hi there
    ||||
    |||| I currently have the setup :
    ||||
    |||| Telewest 2 meg broadband connection
    |||| Netgear FR114P router with print server that I use
    |||| 2 computers connected to the router
    |||| Sipgate account
    |||| X-lite softphone all set up and running
    |||
    |||| I could go for the YGW10 or ATA-486 for around the £55 mark, are
    |||| these good units ? could I then use my DECT handsets ? can I use
    |||| an RJ11
    |||
    ||| The 486 has an internal router I think - and since you have one
    ||| already, there is little point to having it. So you could get the
    ||| cheaper 286 that doesn't have the router and save some money.
    |||
    ||| (Advanced note - newbie here! - I am not an expert on VoIP!)
    |||
    |||
    |||| Tim.
    ||
    || The Sipura 1001 or 2000 are far better products than any of the
    || Grandstream range. Both have capacity for two accounts/phone
    || numbers, the 1001 has a single phone port and you switch between the
    || two numbers with codes, the 2000 has two physical sockets into which
    || you plug two phones. Which you choose depends on your needs, for
    || example would you need to be able to use both lines at the same
    || time, by two different people..? If so the 1001 would be no use.
    ||
    || Ivor

    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    Seconded.
     
    The Cable Guy, May 23, 2005
    #6
  7. Martin² Guest

    Draytek Vigor range is quality kit, at still reasonable prices.
    The advantage of the 2100V would be that it's all in one box, which means
    you get QoS,
    and it will let you make calls either via the VoIP or normal land line, so
    you only need one phone and yes you can use DECT phone.
    Considering the sipura prices it would be reasonable choice.
    Regards,
    Martin
    (my 2600We hasn't missed a bit in over two years, now 2600VGi as well for
    VoIP)
     
    Martin², May 24, 2005
    #7
  8. Paul D.Smith Guest

    Do you want to be able to call at any time? Do you want to be able to call
    999 and have them know where you are? If so, then keep the landline. VoIP
    is great for cheap calls where cost is more important that quality &
    reliability. Where this is not true, landlines win.

    Before anyone says "but big telcos use VoIP under the covers", yes they do,
    and they have lots of expensive hardware to ensure reliability, QoS (quality
    of service) etc. etc. Your home broadband does _not_ have this and even if
    it did, your ISP may not have this on their links to the Internet.

    Apart from that, follow the suggestions from other posters and enjoy your
    VoIP phone. I'm certainly going to try one at some point so I'm interested
    in other posters suggestions - but I'll be keeping the landline!

    Paul DS.
     
    Paul D.Smith, May 25, 2005
    #8
  9. Guest

    On Wed, 25 May 2005 12:45:28 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
    <> wrote:


    >Before anyone says "but big telcos use VoIP under the covers", yes they do,
    >and they have lots of expensive hardware to ensure reliability, QoS (quality
    >of service) etc. etc. Your home broadband does _not_ have this and even if
    >it did, your ISP may not have this on their links to the Internet.

    I have four VOIP lines two with Sipgate and the quality is excellent
    when they are not down one with Voipfone which is of excellent quality
    and never been down yet and one with Just dial only been with JD for a
    week but so far nothing short of excellent . I for one will not
    entertain another land line in the house once I get rid of my Telewest
    line in July the BT lines where got rid of back in February .
     
    , May 25, 2005
    #9
  10. Paul D.Smith Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 25 May 2005 12:45:28 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Before anyone says "but big telcos use VoIP under the covers", yes they

    do,
    > >and they have lots of expensive hardware to ensure reliability, QoS

    (quality
    > >of service) etc. etc. Your home broadband does _not_ have this and even

    if
    > >it did, your ISP may not have this on their links to the Internet.

    > I have four VOIP lines two with Sipgate and the quality is excellent
    > when they are not down one with Voipfone which is of excellent quality
    > and never been down yet and one with Just dial only been with JD for a
    > week but so far nothing short of excellent . I for one will not
    > entertain another land line in the house once I get rid of my Telewest
    > line in July the BT lines where got rid of back in February .


    As to quality, you're lucky so enjoy. Contention ratios being what they
    are, you can't guarentee similar quality for all.

    As to 999/112/911, a landline provides the emergency service with an
    immediate "the caller is here" identification. VoIP cannot do that because
    of the nature of IP being transient/mobile. For example, I can sign up to a
    Vonage account in the US but I can guarentee that if I dial 999, one of
    three things will happen...

    1. I will get a "what the hell is 999" response because Vonage are in the US
    where the emergency service is 911
    2. I may get through but the operator will be in the US and won't be very
    helpful when I say my house in north London, UK, is on fire.
    3. I won't be able to use _any_ emergency number.

    You are probably not aware that providing emergency service support is a
    huge undertaking with regulations beyond imagining. I've seen some VoIP
    even go as far as explicitly stating "we don't support it" because they
    don't have the resources or infrastructure that such an undertaking
    requires.

    As I said, if you're happy, good, but understand what you're loosing.

    Paul DS
     
    Paul D.Smith, May 25, 2005
    #10
  11. Guest

    On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:01:01 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
    <> wrote:


    >As to 999/112/911, a landline provides the emergency service with an
    >immediate "the caller is here" identification.

    As to 999/112/911 I cannot understand all the obsession regarding not
    being able to dial these numbers using voip I have never had reason to
    dial 999 in my entire life even if I did have need to I can dial these
    numbers on the mobile . It is highly unlikely that both voip and
    mobile service would go down at the same time .
     
    , May 25, 2005
    #11
  12. DieSea Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:01:01 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >As to 999/112/911, a landline provides the emergency service with an
    > >immediate "the caller is here" identification.

    > As to 999/112/911 I cannot understand all the obsession regarding not
    > being able to dial these numbers using voip I have never had reason to
    > dial 999 in my entire life even if I did have need to I can dial these
    > numbers on the mobile . It is highly unlikely that both voip and
    > mobile service would go down at the same time .


    I did yesterday

    when the mill at the back of me caught fire , the emergency operator who answered
    my call told me the line provider , my telephone number asked me to confirm my
    address then asked which emergency service I required , then put me through to the
    fire service.

    Very Slick

    As you say you could keep a mobile for times when your VoiP didn't work.

    Regards to all

    DieSea
     
    DieSea, May 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Tim Clark Guest

    In article <42946559$0$294$>,
    "Paul D.Smith" <> writes:
    > Do you want to be able to call at any time? Do you want to be able to call
    > 999 and have them know where you are? If so, then keep the landline. VoIP
    > is great for cheap calls where cost is more important that quality &
    > reliability. Where this is not true, landlines win.
    >
    > Before anyone says "but big telcos use VoIP under the covers", yes they do,
    > and they have lots of expensive hardware to ensure reliability, QoS (quality
    > of service) etc. etc. Your home broadband does _not_ have this and even if
    > it did, your ISP may not have this on their links to the Internet.
    >
    > Apart from that, follow the suggestions from other posters and enjoy your
    > VoIP phone. I'm certainly going to try one at some point so I'm interested
    > in other posters suggestions - but I'll be keeping the landline!


    I reckon _all_ the following conditions, which I'm close to meeting, are
    probably adequate, and perhaps even exceed a single landline for
    reliability of 112/999 access:

    - VoIP service offers 112/999
    - Local hardware on which VoIP phone is reliant is normally on and in
    service 24/7
    - mobile phone is within reach, charged and on 99.9% of time
    - UPS where mains power interruptions of >1s are more frequent than 1
    per year

    They key is in truly independent alternatives. Even then it is fair
    to point out the severe disadvantage in discovering, in an emergency, you
    can't get through with method A, and need to use method B. Even so,
    I think most would be able to sleep soundly without a landline, if all
    the above conditions were all met for _all_ residents of the household.

    --
    Tim Clark
     
    Tim Clark, May 25, 2005
    #13
  14. Paul D.Smith Guest

    Tim,

    See my comments below.

    > - VoIP service offers 112/999


    Do many VoIP services offer this? Especially in SIP-land (read the IETF SIP
    working-group, the people who define the SIP protocol, if you're
    interested), there is a large debate going on about how to indicate the
    location of a SIP phone. VoIP phones are not normally tied to specific
    locations or IP addresses (think DHCP!).

    > - Local hardware on which VoIP phone is reliant is normally on and in
    > service 24/7


    Not just local. What if your ISP has a network which gets congested at
    various times or, like in recent times, is located in the Canary Wharf
    building that keeps loosing power?

    > - mobile phone is within reach, charged and on 99.9% of time


    Now there is your back-up ;-). Probably as good as having a landline since
    a mobile phone can be traced fairly closely.

    > - UPS where mains power interruptions of >1s are more frequent than 1
    > per year
    >


    See "local" above.

    > They key is in truly independent alternatives. Even then it is fair
    > to point out the severe disadvantage in discovering, in an emergency, you
    > can't get through with method A, and need to use method B. Even so,
    > I think most would be able to sleep soundly without a landline, if all
    > the above conditions were all met for _all_ residents of the household.


    All the above were very reasonable arguments. Must admit I'd ignored mobile
    phones as I rarely use mine and it's often not charged because I don't use
    it and therefore don't think to plug it in.

    Paul DS.
     
    Paul D.Smith, May 26, 2005
    #14
  15. Guest

    Right all going forward,

    I currently have x-lite working brilliantly with a cyberphone K, you
    have to mail their customer service department (www.voicevoip.com) for
    a link to get the whole functionality out of the K (ringer, keypad &
    off hook/off hook activation of the software). So now pick up the K
    and you get a ringtone as if it were a "normal" phone, then dial a
    number (no country code required) and it tone dials away like a
    "normal" phone then chat away you guessed it like a "normal" phone.
    Cool!

    So now onto stage 2, I have ordered a Sipura SPA 2000 ATA's, thanks
    for all the advice on the one to pick, so I will be able to connect the
    DECT cordless phones, it came out looking good for my set up, I ordered
    2 actually one for my wife's place in the week also, from the US much
    better price than the UK, will let you know more if they arrive OK and
    all set up OK.

    Out of interest I have also signed up with ineen (www.ineen.com) which
    gives you a free sip account but with added video, (we have a week off
    this week however so will not be testing it, but it looks great), I
    have tried calling out to my sipgate account and that works just fine
    so seems promising, has anyone else tried this service ??

    Thanks all who gave me the pro's and cons of using VoIP solely, I
    particularly like the one:

    "2. I may get through but the operator will be in the US and won't be
    very
    helpful when I say my house in north London, UK, is on fire."

    If my house was on fire I sure as damn it would not me on the landline
    in the house! but joking aside thanks all I get the message.

    So if 999 is the only major drawback, and the uptime a minor one,
    considering I have 2 mobiles with me at all times, and my landline bill
    is on average 50p a month (wife calls me on the BT 5p for an hour
    thing), I think the £10.50 a month for the privilege of the line could
    be better spent elsewhere, and we can have absolutely free calls for as
    long as we like, so BT loose out also (great !)

    I know there are a lot of 5p's in the set up costs, but its all part
    of the fun, there is absolutely no fun in paying BT that I DO know!

    Will let you know how easily it all installs, and how seamless it
    really is (if you are interested ??)

    Tim
     
    , May 30, 2005
    #15
  16. Guest

    On 30 May 2005 15:28:11 -0700, wrote:

    >Right all going forward,
    >
    >I currently have x-lite working brilliantly with a cyberphone K, you
    >have to mail their customer service department (www.voicevoip.com)

    This link brings up a blank page.
    >Out of interest I have also signed up with ineen (www.ineen.com)

    And this is a load of ********* .
    Good bye .
     
    , May 31, 2005
    #16
  17. Guest

    Dex Sorry if I have offended you, no offence was meant !

    >I currently have x-lite working brilliantly with a cyberphone K, you
    >have to mail their customer service department


    Real sorry it was getting late last night, right I have done some more
    digging, I did indeed start at www.voipvoice.com, sorry about the typo
    in the last post, however this then led me to the xten forum, so the
    link to get the integration software is
    http://support.xten.net/viewtopic.php?t=3207&highlight=cyberphone from
    this listing I clicked the e-mail button for "skibum" and requested the
    link for the software. Hope this helps.

    >ineen


    As I have said I am all new and still looking around, I have not tested
    it in anger. When you say it is a load of ********* what is that based
    on ? I am also looking to be able to video chat with my wife during the
    week occasionally. I have tried netmeeting and the like, and given up
    with them, I have tried www.eyeballchat.com and the video is OK but the
    voice I get a lag with, so I thought I would try ineen as it came
    recommended in another forum and as it was based on the SIP protocol I
    thought it might be better ?? Do you have any better suggestions ??

    Thanks
     
    , May 31, 2005
    #17
  18. wrote:
    || Dex Sorry if I have offended you, no offence was meant !
    ||

    Hmm. He can be quite vociferous.

    ||| I currently have x-lite working brilliantly with a cyberphone K, you
    ||| have to mail their customer service department
    ||



    I got the link from x-ten as you suggested, I've installed the new x-lite
    software, selected the phone in the settings - it still behaves as it did -
    the buttons do not dial etc.
    Could you tell me how you set up your CyberphoneK?


    Sorry I've nothing to add to your request!.
     
    The Cable Guy, May 31, 2005
    #18
  19. The Cable Guy wrote:
    || wrote:
    |||| Dex Sorry if I have offended you, no offence was meant !
    ||||
    ||
    || Hmm. He can be quite vociferous.
    ||
    ||||| I currently have x-lite working brilliantly with a cyberphone K,
    ||||| you have to mail their customer service department
    ||||
    ||
    ||
    ||
    || I got the link from x-ten as you suggested, I've installed the new
    || x-lite software, selected the phone in the settings - it still
    || behaves as it did - the buttons do not dial etc.
    || Could you tell me how you set up your CyberphoneK?
    ||
    ||
    || Sorry I've nothing to add to your request!.

    Got it working. hadn't realised I needed to download drivers from VoipVoice
    as well.
     
    The Cable Guy, May 31, 2005
    #19
  20. Guest

    Glad you got it all working, sorry I forgot the voipvoice drivers, I
    had these already inslalled so when I set it all up I did not need to
    re-install them.

    It all works really well doesn't it ?
     
    , Jun 1, 2005
    #20
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