Vista Upgrade....

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64 version
    of Windows Vista.

    I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put on
    XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I was
    sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver support
    and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version of
    Windows (which we now know as Vista).

    As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out there,
    XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
    with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of Vista
    at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    upgrade?

    I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a big
    help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and today
    not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper, but
    they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.

    I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
    esepcially being a student.

    Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.
    =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=, Dec 26, 2006
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    John Barnes Guest

    You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade Vista64.
    And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what Colin says
    will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves behind the
    current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if installed in the
    current x64 volume.

    "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
    > version
    > of Windows Vista.
    >
    > I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    > June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put on
    > XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
    > was
    > sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
    > support
    > and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version of
    > Windows (which we now know as Vista).
    >
    > As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
    > there,
    > XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
    > with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    > users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
    > Vista
    > at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    > upgrade?
    >
    > I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    > want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a big
    > help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    > discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
    > today
    > not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
    > but
    > they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
    >
    > I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
    > esepcially being a student.
    >
    > Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.
    John Barnes, Dec 26, 2006
    #2
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  3. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    Aaron Kelley Guest

    Yes that's right, you can buy the upgrade version, but you will have to do a
    clean install. So, the "upgrade" is referring to your license only, there
    is no way to "upgrade" your existing Windows installation.

    I believe you will have to start the install from within your existing
    Windows installation (so you won't be able to format the drive during the
    clean install... silly).

    XP x64 can "upgrade" to either Vista Business or Vista Ultimate.

    - Aaron

    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
    > Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
    > Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
    > behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
    > installed in the current x64 volume.
    >
    > "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
    >> version
    >> of Windows Vista.
    >>
    >> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    >> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
    >> on
    >> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
    >> was
    >> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
    >> support
    >> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
    >> of
    >> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
    >>
    >> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
    >> there,
    >> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
    >> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    >> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
    >> Vista
    >> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    >> upgrade?
    >>
    >> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    >> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
    >> big
    >> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    >> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
    >> today
    >> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
    >> but
    >> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
    >>
    >> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
    >> esepcially being a student.
    >>
    >> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.

    >
    Aaron Kelley, Dec 26, 2006
    #3
  4. The very large windows.old folder resulted on a test scenario in which I did
    an outrageous thing or two so should not be taken as how it will actually
    work with x64. There will be a windows.old, but it will be a pretty normal
    one.

    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
    > Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
    > Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
    > behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
    > installed in the current x64 volume.
    >
    > "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
    >> version
    >> of Windows Vista.
    >>
    >> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    >> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
    >> on
    >> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
    >> was
    >> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
    >> support
    >> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
    >> of
    >> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
    >>
    >> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
    >> there,
    >> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
    >> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    >> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
    >> Vista
    >> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    >> upgrade?
    >>
    >> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    >> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
    >> big
    >> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    >> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
    >> today
    >> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
    >> but
    >> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
    >>
    >> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
    >> esepcially being a student.
    >>
    >> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.

    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 26, 2006
    #4
  5. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    John Barnes Guest

    Pretty normal meaning about the size of the current Windows partition 'used'
    size? If so, guess that about 20 gig of unused space would allow the
    Vista64 to be installed and after deleting the .old, you could then install
    your programs and replace any data files? What about the unmoveable files?
    Are there any involved.?


    "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The very large windows.old folder resulted on a test scenario in which I
    > did an outrageous thing or two so should not be taken as how it will
    > actually work with x64. There will be a windows.old, but it will be a
    > pretty normal one.
    >
    > "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
    >> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
    >> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
    >> behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
    >> installed in the current x64 volume.
    >>
    >> "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
    >>> version
    >>> of Windows Vista.
    >>>
    >>> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    >>> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
    >>> on
    >>> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
    >>> was
    >>> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
    >>> support
    >>> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
    >>> of
    >>> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
    >>>
    >>> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
    >>> there,
    >>> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm
    >>> fine
    >>> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    >>> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
    >>> Vista
    >>> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    >>> upgrade?
    >>>
    >>> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    >>> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
    >>> big
    >>> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    >>> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
    >>> today
    >>> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
    >>> but
    >>> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
    >>>
    >>> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy
    >>> it,
    >>> esepcially being a student.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.

    >>

    >
    John Barnes, Dec 26, 2006
    #5
  6. The unmovable files are just gone. They are things like VSS snapshots
    (system restore points, etc). You get a new MFT and registry.

    Yes, however you backed up your files and settings, you restore those and
    reinstall your apps.

    What I did that was crazy was do a custom install of Vista x86 on a volume
    which contained a live XP Pro x64. Since XP Pro x64 cannot run in a virtual
    machine I had only one chance to try something like that. I had XP x86 on
    the C: drive on this machine and XP x64 on D:. When I got the TechBeta
    reward I clean installed Vista x64 on C: and just ignored the XP x64 on D:.
    I had a dual boot screen when done but I just never booted into XP x64
    again.

    Then I decided to use an MSDN key to install Vista x86 on D: using a custom
    install (ran Setup from the Vista x64 desktop on C: to preserve drive
    enumeration). I didn't format D:. I just did a custom install of Vista x86
    over XP Pro x64. I did it that way to find out for myself what would happen
    if a user just assumed that "custom" meant "clean" (as in format the drive
    first and reinstall). Does Vista permit installing x86 on top of x64?

    The good news is that you can do that. The bad news is that you can do
    that.

    What I found out was that x86 (anything) does not have any idea how to
    handle the file folders from a previous x64 installation. Instead of just
    rolling up into windows.old it replaced the OS, did a roll up, but failed to
    delete the old folder structure and left it intact like an upgrade. I got a
    custom install that looked like an upgrade but wasn't (the old programs
    weren't actually installed anymore).

    I don't remember if you are using Vista x64 or not, but if you are you know
    what the Program Files and Program Files (x86) file folders are for in a
    64bit OS. That's where things had gone wrong.

    The installation left all the program folders and code intact in both
    Program Files and Program Files (x86) and then installed new programs into
    Program Files. That meant that I had both dead (x64) and live (x86) program
    folders in Program Files and dead (x86) program folders in Program Files
    (x86). The system seemed OK about that but I could not for the life of me
    keep track of what was dead and what was alive. Naturally the dead programs
    folders were just uninstalled program files, but the human interface device
    back of the keyboard couldn't handle that.

    Anyway, I played with it a few days just for fun and then flattened with a
    format from the Vista x64 Drive Manager and reinstalled.

    I don't know if anybody on the dev team ever thought of trying a stunt like
    that, but it should be a blocked installation scenario.

    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Pretty normal meaning about the size of the current Windows partition
    > 'used' size? If so, guess that about 20 gig of unused space would allow
    > the Vista64 to be installed and after deleting the .old, you could then
    > install your programs and replace any data files? What about the
    > unmoveable files? Are there any involved.?
    >
    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 26, 2006
    #6
  7. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    DP Guest

    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
    > Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
    > Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
    > behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
    > installed in the current x64 volume.
    >


    First, RMONAG11, I asked the very same question you did about a week ago in
    this forum. You seem to have elicited better answers than I. I guess they
    got good "practice" on my question before they answered yours.

    Now, for John Barnes, et al:
    As I understand it, what you all are saying is that the way we actuate MS's
    promise of "upgrade pricing" for XP x64 users is simply by going out and
    buying an upgrade version of Vista, which would be cheaper than a full
    version. So, does that mean that the cheaper upgrade version is still a full
    version of Vista? Basically, it's the same disk only with different
    packaging and pricing to differentiate the "upgrade version" from the "full
    version"? That is, both are actually full versions, they simply are packaged
    and priced differently?
    That's the only way I can see that it would be possible to get an upgrade
    version yet do a clean install with it.

    Do I have that right, or am I missing something here?
    DP, Dec 27, 2006
    #7
  8. An upgrade edition of Vista is Vista. The retail upgrade and full edition
    dvd's are identical. The difference in the behavior of Setup is controlled
    by the product key. Setup branches on product key and the available
    installation methodolgy is determined that way. The product key also causes
    Setup to branch to the manifest for the edition of Vista being installed.
    The resulting installation of Vista, however, is the same whether that
    edition was installed with an upgrade or full edition product key.

    You have to be very careful about what you expect from the term "clean
    installation." If you mean "can I get a classic clean installation, where I
    first formatted the hard drive and then installed the OS, from an upgrade
    edition?" then I think the answer may be no. Choosing the custom
    installation option instead of upgrade has not resulted in a reformatted
    volume in my experience.

    If you mean "will I get a clean installation of the operating system?" the
    answer is yes. Vista uses an imaging methodology that guarantees that all
    sectors used in laying down the image will inherit the file format of the
    image regardless of what may or may not have been written to those sectors
    previously. Additionally, certain folders, like Program Files. users, and
    Windows are rolled up into windows.old and those may be deleted as with
    previous versions of Windows.

    I do not believe it is possible to format the target hard drive before
    installing Vista with an upgrade edition product key unless MS has made a
    provision for that by allowing installation to a volume other than the
    legacy Windows volume that is in play during the upgrade process. That is
    the one possibility I have never been able to test because the only product
    keys I have had are full edition pk's.

    I hope this helps.

    "DP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
    >> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
    >> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
    >> behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
    >> installed in the current x64 volume.
    >>

    >
    > First, RMONAG11, I asked the very same question you did about a week ago
    > in this forum. You seem to have elicited better answers than I. I guess
    > they got good "practice" on my question before they answered yours.
    >
    > Now, for John Barnes, et al:
    > As I understand it, what you all are saying is that the way we actuate
    > MS's promise of "upgrade pricing" for XP x64 users is simply by going out
    > and buying an upgrade version of Vista, which would be cheaper than a full
    > version. So, does that mean that the cheaper upgrade version is still a
    > full version of Vista? Basically, it's the same disk only with different
    > packaging and pricing to differentiate the "upgrade version" from the
    > "full version"? That is, both are actually full versions, they simply are
    > packaged and priced differently?
    > That's the only way I can see that it would be possible to get an upgrade
    > version yet do a clean install with it.
    >
    > Do I have that right, or am I missing something here?
    >
    >
    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 27, 2006
    #8
  9. Further thought. It is possible to format a volume after you have started
    Setup from the legacy OS desktop (required when you are using an upgrade
    edition product key). But you have to minimize the Setup screen, use the
    legacy OS Disk Manager to delete, create, and assign a drive letter. Do not
    format since Custom Install will do a quick format if the volume is not
    formatted yet. You want the NTFS enhancements since XP.

    You then maximize the Setup screen and click on the Refresh button to get
    the new volume to show up in the volume list in Setup. What I don't know is
    if an upgrade edition product key will allow you to instlall Vista on a
    volume other than the legacy OS system volume. If not, then the above is no
    help.

    "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > An upgrade edition of Vista is Vista. The retail upgrade and full edition
    > dvd's are identical. The difference in the behavior of Setup is
    > controlled by the product key. Setup branches on product key and the
    > available installation methodolgy is determined that way. The product key
    > also causes Setup to branch to the manifest for the edition of Vista being
    > installed. The resulting installation of Vista, however, is the same
    > whether that edition was installed with an upgrade or full edition product
    > key.
    >
    > You have to be very careful about what you expect from the term "clean
    > installation." If you mean "can I get a classic clean installation, where
    > I first formatted the hard drive and then installed the OS, from an
    > upgrade edition?" then I think the answer may be no. Choosing the custom
    > installation option instead of upgrade has not resulted in a reformatted
    > volume in my experience.
    >
    > If you mean "will I get a clean installation of the operating system?" the
    > answer is yes. Vista uses an imaging methodology that guarantees that all
    > sectors used in laying down the image will inherit the file format of the
    > image regardless of what may or may not have been written to those sectors
    > previously. Additionally, certain folders, like Program Files. users, and
    > Windows are rolled up into windows.old and those may be deleted as with
    > previous versions of Windows.
    >
    > I do not believe it is possible to format the target hard drive before
    > installing Vista with an upgrade edition product key unless MS has made a
    > provision for that by allowing installation to a volume other than the
    > legacy Windows volume that is in play during the upgrade process. That is
    > the one possibility I have never been able to test because the only
    > product keys I have had are full edition pk's.
    >
    > I hope this helps.
    >
    > "DP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
    >>> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
    >>> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it
    >>> leaves behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
    >>> installed in the current x64 volume.
    >>>

    >>
    >> First, RMONAG11, I asked the very same question you did about a week ago
    >> in this forum. You seem to have elicited better answers than I. I guess
    >> they got good "practice" on my question before they answered yours.
    >>
    >> Now, for John Barnes, et al:
    >> As I understand it, what you all are saying is that the way we actuate
    >> MS's promise of "upgrade pricing" for XP x64 users is simply by going out
    >> and buying an upgrade version of Vista, which would be cheaper than a
    >> full version. So, does that mean that the cheaper upgrade version is
    >> still a full version of Vista? Basically, it's the same disk only with
    >> different packaging and pricing to differentiate the "upgrade version"
    >> from the "full version"? That is, both are actually full versions, they
    >> simply are packaged and priced differently?
    >> That's the only way I can see that it would be possible to get an upgrade
    >> version yet do a clean install with it.
    >>
    >> Do I have that right, or am I missing something here?
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 27, 2006
    #9
  10. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    Dshai Guest

    Ok, I've sat and read everything posted on this subject and still I have a
    question that hasn't actually been hit upon as of yet. Say I buy my
    "upgrade" copy of Vista and install it, all goes well and I'm running
    smoothly down life's path on Vista Ultimate x64, a crisis occurs in which I
    have to do a complete reinstall of Vista, no prior os available, say the
    loss of the system hdd, where am I aqt that point, do I first have to
    re-install Win XP x64 then Vista, or am I able to just install Vista. From
    what I've read thus far it would seem that XP will have to go back on first.

    Dshai

    "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
    > version
    > of Windows Vista.
    >
    > I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    > June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put on
    > XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
    > was
    > sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
    > support
    > and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version of
    > Windows (which we now know as Vista).
    >
    > As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
    > there,
    > XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
    > with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    > users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
    > Vista
    > at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    > upgrade?
    >
    > I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    > want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a big
    > help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    > discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
    > today
    > not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
    > but
    > they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
    >
    > I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
    > esepcially being a student.
    >
    > Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.
    Dshai, Dec 27, 2006
    #10
  11. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    Jane C Guest

    After you have successfully installed Vista Ultimate x64, and everything is
    installed and running fine, you will then do a 'Complete PC Backup', which
    makes an image of your entire system, to either an external or spare
    internal Hard Drive, or to (multiple) DVDs, so that in the event of a
    catastrophic failure of hardware, chronic viral infection etc etc, you will
    be able to restore said image :)

    That's the Microsoft Theory, anyway ;-) It actually works. Or so I have
    been reliably informed (by a person who used the backup to multiple DVD
    method) ;)

    (I have made a full backup, now I'm waiting for an excuse to restore it)

    --
    Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :)
    Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)

    "Dshai" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Ok, I've sat and read everything posted on this subject and still I have a
    > question that hasn't actually been hit upon as of yet. Say I buy my
    > "upgrade" copy of Vista and install it, all goes well and I'm running
    > smoothly down life's path on Vista Ultimate x64, a crisis occurs in which
    > I have to do a complete reinstall of Vista, no prior os available, say the
    > loss of the system hdd, where am I aqt that point, do I first have to
    > re-install Win XP x64 then Vista, or am I able to just install Vista. From
    > what I've read thus far it would seem that XP will have to go back on
    > first.
    >
    > Dshai
    >
    > "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
    >> version
    >> of Windows Vista.
    >>
    >> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    >> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
    >> on
    >> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
    >> was
    >> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
    >> support
    >> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
    >> of
    >> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
    >>
    >> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
    >> there,
    >> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
    >> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    >> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
    >> Vista
    >> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    >> upgrade?
    >>
    >> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    >> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
    >> big
    >> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    >> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
    >> today
    >> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
    >> but
    >> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
    >>
    >> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
    >> esepcially being a student.
    >>
    >> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.

    >
    >
    Jane C, Dec 27, 2006
    #11
  12. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    John Barnes Guest

    Darrell's reply to me seems to indicate that a 'clean' install would have to
    be to another volume. Here is the reply

    Hello John,
    I don't think so I haven't tried that scenario, you will not be able to
    remove the underlying OS from the volume(either the boot or the system
    volume), clean install would need to be to another volume. If the boot and
    system partitions were different you may be able to remove the boot
    partition( the one that contains \windows), but you wouldn't be able to
    remove the "system" partition ( the one containing the boot files) since
    the Windows Vista temp files are located on that volume and you can't
    remove the temp files out from under setup.
    Thanks,
    Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights






    "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Further thought. It is possible to format a volume after you have started
    > Setup from the legacy OS desktop (required when you are using an upgrade
    > edition product key). But you have to minimize the Setup screen, use the
    > legacy OS Disk Manager to delete, create, and assign a drive letter. Do
    > not format since Custom Install will do a quick format if the volume is
    > not formatted yet. You want the NTFS enhancements since XP.
    >
    > You then maximize the Setup screen and click on the Refresh button to get
    > the new volume to show up in the volume list in Setup. What I don't know
    > is if an upgrade edition product key will allow you to instlall Vista on a
    > volume other than the legacy OS system volume. If not, then the above is
    > no help.
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> An upgrade edition of Vista is Vista. The retail upgrade and full
    >> edition dvd's are identical. The difference in the behavior of Setup is
    >> controlled by the product key. Setup branches on product key and the
    >> available installation methodolgy is determined that way. The product
    >> key also causes Setup to branch to the manifest for the edition of Vista
    >> being installed. The resulting installation of Vista, however, is the
    >> same whether that edition was installed with an upgrade or full edition
    >> product key.
    >>
    >> You have to be very careful about what you expect from the term "clean
    >> installation." If you mean "can I get a classic clean installation,
    >> where I first formatted the hard drive and then installed the OS, from an
    >> upgrade edition?" then I think the answer may be no. Choosing the custom
    >> installation option instead of upgrade has not resulted in a reformatted
    >> volume in my experience.
    >>
    >> If you mean "will I get a clean installation of the operating system?"
    >> the answer is yes. Vista uses an imaging methodology that guarantees
    >> that all sectors used in laying down the image will inherit the file
    >> format of the image regardless of what may or may not have been written
    >> to those sectors previously. Additionally, certain folders, like Program
    >> Files. users, and Windows are rolled up into windows.old and those may be
    >> deleted as with previous versions of Windows.
    >>
    >> I do not believe it is possible to format the target hard drive before
    >> installing Vista with an upgrade edition product key unless MS has made a
    >> provision for that by allowing installation to a volume other than the
    >> legacy Windows volume that is in play during the upgrade process. That
    >> is the one possibility I have never been able to test because the only
    >> product keys I have had are full edition pk's.
    >>
    >> I hope this helps.
    >>
    >> "DP" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
    >>>> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from
    >>>> what Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it
    >>>> leaves behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old
    >>>> if installed in the current x64 volume.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> First, RMONAG11, I asked the very same question you did about a week ago
    >>> in this forum. You seem to have elicited better answers than I. I guess
    >>> they got good "practice" on my question before they answered yours.
    >>>
    >>> Now, for John Barnes, et al:
    >>> As I understand it, what you all are saying is that the way we actuate
    >>> MS's promise of "upgrade pricing" for XP x64 users is simply by going
    >>> out and buying an upgrade version of Vista, which would be cheaper than
    >>> a full version. So, does that mean that the cheaper upgrade version is
    >>> still a full version of Vista? Basically, it's the same disk only with
    >>> different packaging and pricing to differentiate the "upgrade version"
    >>> from the "full version"? That is, both are actually full versions, they
    >>> simply are packaged and priced differently?
    >>> That's the only way I can see that it would be possible to get an
    >>> upgrade version yet do a clean install with it.
    >>>
    >>> Do I have that right, or am I missing something here?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
    John Barnes, Dec 27, 2006
    #12
  13. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    John Barnes Guest

    Seems like curiosity is enough of an excuse. :)
    Personally I would expect that most serious users of Vista will have
    periodic full or incremental backups so they don't have to start from
    scratch each time. Doesn't a backup of Vista immediately after installation
    and activation fit on one DVD? Certainly wouldn't after programs and user
    files are added.


    "Jane C" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After you have successfully installed Vista Ultimate x64, and everything
    > is installed and running fine, you will then do a 'Complete PC Backup',
    > which makes an image of your entire system, to either an external or spare
    > internal Hard Drive, or to (multiple) DVDs, so that in the event of a
    > catastrophic failure of hardware, chronic viral infection etc etc, you
    > will be able to restore said image :)
    >
    > That's the Microsoft Theory, anyway ;-) It actually works. Or so I have
    > been reliably informed (by a person who used the backup to multiple DVD
    > method) ;)
    >
    > (I have made a full backup, now I'm waiting for an excuse to restore it)
    >
    > --
    > Jane, not plain ;) 64 bit enabled :)
    > Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)
    >
    > "Dshai" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Ok, I've sat and read everything posted on this subject and still I have
    >> a question that hasn't actually been hit upon as of yet. Say I buy my
    >> "upgrade" copy of Vista and install it, all goes well and I'm running
    >> smoothly down life's path on Vista Ultimate x64, a crisis occurs in which
    >> I have to do a complete reinstall of Vista, no prior os available, say
    >> the loss of the system hdd, where am I aqt that point, do I first have to
    >> re-install Win XP x64 then Vista, or am I able to just install Vista.
    >> From what I've read thus far it would seem that XP will have to go back
    >> on first.
    >>
    >> Dshai
    >>
    >> "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
    >>> version
    >>> of Windows Vista.
    >>>
    >>> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
    >>> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
    >>> on
    >>> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
    >>> was
    >>> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
    >>> support
    >>> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
    >>> of
    >>> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
    >>>
    >>> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
    >>> there,
    >>> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm
    >>> fine
    >>> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
    >>> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
    >>> Vista
    >>> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
    >>> upgrade?
    >>>
    >>> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
    >>> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
    >>> big
    >>> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
    >>> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
    >>> today
    >>> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
    >>> but
    >>> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
    >>>
    >>> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy
    >>> it,
    >>> esepcially being a student.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.

    >>
    >>

    >
    John Barnes, Dec 27, 2006
    #13
  14. I want to see someone do that or get an upgrade key myself before I trust
    the implications of Darrell's reply. Even folks at MS are uncertain about
    the upgrade edition functionalities. I am tempted to buy an upgrade edition
    on Jan 30 just to have a product key to experiment with. A Vista Home Basic
    upgrade edition key would suffice to experiment in a virtual machine with.
    I have all the candidate Win2k and XP OS's so setting up dual vhd vm's will
    be no trick.

    Problem: As far as I can see it is the only scenario that would work with
    Win2k and XP Pro x64 but that would produce a dual boot scenario with the
    legacy OS still functional. I can't see MS supporting an upgrade edition
    scenario that leaves the legacy OS that was used for the upgrade as still
    functional. Historically that has always been the big NO NO. The legacy
    license is supposed to be voided by the tieing of the legacy license to the
    new one. And then there is the volsnap.sys problem when dual booting XP or
    XP Pro x64 and Vista.

    And there still remains the problem of the single drive Win2k and XP Pro x64
    machines.

    There are nearly 200 knowledge base articles on microsoft.com concerning
    Vista and only one cryptic one makes reference to the upgrade scenarios. It
    simply says you have to run from the legacy desktop.

    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Darrell's reply to me seems to indicate that a 'clean' install would have
    > to be to another volume. Here is the reply
    >
    > Hello John,
    > I don't think so I haven't tried that scenario, you will not be able to
    > remove the underlying OS from the volume(either the boot or the system
    > volume), clean install would need to be to another volume. If the boot
    > and
    > system partitions were different you may be able to remove the boot
    > partition( the one that contains \windows), but you wouldn't be able to
    > remove the "system" partition ( the one containing the boot files) since
    > the Windows Vista temp files are located on that volume and you can't
    > remove the temp files out from under setup.
    > Thanks,
    > Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
    >
    > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 27, 2006
    #14
  15. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    John Barnes Guest

    Time is rushing by and it will be Jan 30 in no time. All upgrade version
    clean installs to another partition I have done in the past left the old
    version fully functional. 98 to ME to XP all left the old version fully
    useable but not licensed. 1 month 3 days and we will know if Microsoft
    hasn't clarified in the meantime.



    "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    news:D...
    >I want to see someone do that or get an upgrade key myself before I trust
    >the implications of Darrell's reply. Even folks at MS are uncertain about
    >the upgrade edition functionalities. I am tempted to buy an upgrade
    >edition on Jan 30 just to have a product key to experiment with. A Vista
    >Home Basic upgrade edition key would suffice to experiment in a virtual
    >machine with. I have all the candidate Win2k and XP OS's so setting up dual
    >vhd vm's will be no trick.
    >
    > Problem: As far as I can see it is the only scenario that would work with
    > Win2k and XP Pro x64 but that would produce a dual boot scenario with the
    > legacy OS still functional. I can't see MS supporting an upgrade edition
    > scenario that leaves the legacy OS that was used for the upgrade as still
    > functional. Historically that has always been the big NO NO. The legacy
    > license is supposed to be voided by the tieing of the legacy license to
    > the new one. And then there is the volsnap.sys problem when dual booting
    > XP or XP Pro x64 and Vista.
    >
    > And there still remains the problem of the single drive Win2k and XP Pro
    > x64 machines.
    >
    > There are nearly 200 knowledge base articles on microsoft.com concerning
    > Vista and only one cryptic one makes reference to the upgrade scenarios.
    > It simply says you have to run from the legacy desktop.
    >
    > "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Darrell's reply to me seems to indicate that a 'clean' install would have
    >> to be to another volume. Here is the reply
    >>
    >> Hello John,
    >> I don't think so I haven't tried that scenario, you will not be able to
    >> remove the underlying OS from the volume(either the boot or the system
    >> volume), clean install would need to be to another volume. If the boot
    >> and
    >> system partitions were different you may be able to remove the boot
    >> partition( the one that contains \windows), but you wouldn't be able to
    >> remove the "system" partition ( the one containing the boot files) since
    >> the Windows Vista temp files are located on that volume and you can't
    >> remove the temp files out from under setup.
    >> Thanks,
    >> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
    >>
    >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
    >> rights
    >>

    >
    John Barnes, Dec 27, 2006
    #15
  16. Right now it appears that your two options if you have to replace the hard
    drive (or similar scenario) are:

    (1) Reinstall XP Pro x64 and then run the Vista x64 upgrade edition from the
    desktop again.

    (2) Restore the system from an image backup.

    The confusion is because "upgrade" can mean both upgrade pricing and
    upgrading-in-place. Since you cannot do an upgrade-in-place from XP Pro x64
    to Vista x64 you should think of the upgrade rights giving you a discount
    price on "migrating" from XP Pro x64 to Vista x64.

    "Dshai" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Ok, I've sat and read everything posted on this subject and still I have a
    > question that hasn't actually been hit upon as of yet. Say I buy my
    > "upgrade" copy of Vista and install it, all goes well and I'm running
    > smoothly down life's path on Vista Ultimate x64, a crisis occurs in which
    > I have to do a complete reinstall of Vista, no prior os available, say the
    > loss of the system hdd, where am I aqt that point, do I first have to
    > re-install Win XP x64 then Vista, or am I able to just install Vista. From
    > what I've read thus far it would seem that XP will have to go back on
    > first.
    >
    > Dshai
    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 27, 2006
    #16
  17. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    Dshai Guest

    Fair enough, all answers make sense, as to the back-up, yep I've got that,
    although at this point it's XP Pro x64, but it's a habit I got into long ago
    when it became apparent it made good sense, and now that you mention it
    Colin you're right, I'll have to go Full Version anyway going from this to
    Vista so I guess it is a moot point, although for folks running x86 or Win2K
    it's still viable, and appears to be a possible pain, expecially for those
    few out there who (gasp) don't possess a burner still (we no who you are and
    you're going on report for being obscelete...<g> ) anyway, just a question
    that came to mind and I appreciate all the input regarding it.

    Dshai

    "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Right now it appears that your two options if you have to replace the hard
    > drive (or similar scenario) are:
    >
    > (1) Reinstall XP Pro x64 and then run the Vista x64 upgrade edition from
    > the desktop again.
    >
    > (2) Restore the system from an image backup.
    >
    > The confusion is because "upgrade" can mean both upgrade pricing and
    > upgrading-in-place. Since you cannot do an upgrade-in-place from XP Pro
    > x64 to Vista x64 you should think of the upgrade rights giving you a
    > discount price on "migrating" from XP Pro x64 to Vista x64.
    >
    > "Dshai" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Ok, I've sat and read everything posted on this subject and still I have
    >> a question that hasn't actually been hit upon as of yet. Say I buy my
    >> "upgrade" copy of Vista and install it, all goes well and I'm running
    >> smoothly down life's path on Vista Ultimate x64, a crisis occurs in which
    >> I have to do a complete reinstall of Vista, no prior os available, say
    >> the loss of the system hdd, where am I aqt that point, do I first have to
    >> re-install Win XP x64 then Vista, or am I able to just install Vista.
    >> From what I've read thus far it would seem that XP will have to go back
    >> on first.
    >>
    >> Dshai
    >>

    >
    Dshai, Dec 27, 2006
    #17
  18. Perchance has anyone actually tried an "upgrade" install on a newly
    formatted disk? Some version(s) ago (perhaps this was only office?)
    would look for the qualifying software, and if not found require the
    CD/key to be inserted/entered, and then the new key entered and off you
    went on an install.
    Computerflyer, Dec 28, 2006
    #18
  19. =?Utf-8?B?Uk1PTkFHMTE=?=

    Aaron Kelley Guest

    Old Windows behaved this way, too. The word is that it's changed for Vista,
    but since upgrade keys aren't available until Vista goes public in late
    January, I don't know of anyone who has tried it.

    - Aaron

    "Computerflyer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Perchance has anyone actually tried an "upgrade" install on a newly
    > formatted disk? Some version(s) ago (perhaps this was only office?)
    > would look for the qualifying software, and if not found require the
    > CD/key to be inserted/entered, and then the new key entered and off you
    > went on an install.
    >
    Aaron Kelley, Dec 28, 2006
    #19
  20. When you start Setup and enter the upgrade edition product key you will get
    a message that the product key you entered requires that you launch Setup
    from an operating system desktop. Obviously you can't do that if there is
    no such OS on the machine. Vista Setup does not request shiny media for
    verification of eligibility for upgrade pricing. Instead it needs to run on
    a genuine copy of Windows.

    "Computerflyer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Perchance has anyone actually tried an "upgrade" install on a newly
    > formatted disk? Some version(s) ago (perhaps this was only office?)
    > would look for the qualifying software, and if not found require the
    > CD/key to be inserted/entered, and then the new key entered and off you
    > went on an install.
    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 28, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

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