Vista continues to grow, Intel Mac up, others down

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Mickey Mouse, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. Mickey Mouse

    Mickey Mouse Guest

    As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market. The
    Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of older Macs.
    Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total market share.

    Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%

    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5
    Mickey Mouse, Sep 11, 2007
    #1
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  2. Mickey Mouse

    Allistar Guest

    Mickey Mouse wrote:

    > As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    > surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market.
    > The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of older
    > Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total market
    > share.
    >
    > Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    > February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    > May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    > August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >
    > http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5


    Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS installed by
    default?

    How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily count
    them?
    --
    A.
    Allistar, Sep 12, 2007
    #2
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  3. Mickey Mouse

    Squiggle Guest

    Allistar wrote:
    > Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >
    >> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market.
    >> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of older
    >> Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total market
    >> share.
    >>
    >> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >> August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>
    >> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

    >
    > Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS installed by
    > default?


    Yes.

    >
    > How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily count
    > them?


    "This report lists the market share of the top operating systems in use.
    This data is derived by aggregating the traffic across our network of
    websites that use our service."
    Squiggle, Sep 12, 2007
    #3
  4. Mickey Mouse

    Allistar Guest

    Squiggle wrote:

    > Allistar wrote:
    >> Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >>
    >>> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >>> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market.
    >>> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of
    >>> older Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total
    >>> market share.
    >>>
    >>> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >>> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >>> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >>> August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>>
    >>> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

    >>
    >> Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS installed
    >> by default?

    >
    > Yes.


    So the numbers in themselves don't represent anything other than usage (i.e.
    they don't represent any other qualities of the respective operating
    systems - you can't say "OS x is better because more people use it").

    >> How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily
    >> count them?

    >
    > "This report lists the market share of the top operating systems in use.
    > This data is derived by aggregating the traffic across our network of
    > websites that use our service."


    Which doesn't take into account user agent spoofing (which which tend to
    over represent Windows figures rather than the other way around).

    Allistar.
    --
    A.
    Allistar, Sep 12, 2007
    #4
  5. Mickey Mouse

    Malcolm Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:33:09 +1200
    Squiggle <> wrote:

    > Allistar wrote:
    > > Mickey Mouse wrote:
    > >
    > >> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market,
    > >> having surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the
    > >> entire Mac market. The Intel based Macs see incremental growth
    > >> mostly at the expense of older Macs. Other OS's (including Linux)
    > >> continue to decline in total market share.
    > >>
    > >> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC
    > >> Other February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09%
    > >> 3.60% May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51%
    > >> 3.47% August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82%
    > >> 3.44%
    > >>
    > >> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

    > >
    > > Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS
    > > installed by default?

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    > >
    > > How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to
    > > easily count them?

    >
    > "This report lists the market share of the top operating systems in
    > use. This data is derived by aggregating the traffic across our
    > network of websites that use our service."

    But at least the linux trend is slow but rising... ;-)
    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5&qpcustom=Linux

    --
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
    SLED 10.0 SP1 x86_64 Kernel 2.6.16.53-0.8-smp
    up 1 day 23:06, 2 users, load average: 0.22, 0.08, 0.06
    Malcolm, Sep 12, 2007
    #5
  6. Mickey Mouse

    Will Spencer Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:24:22 +1200, Allistar wrote:

    > Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >
    >> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market.
    >> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of older
    >> Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total market
    >> share.
    >>
    >> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >> August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>
    >> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

    >
    > Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS installed by
    > default?
    >
    > How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily count
    > them?


    The sooner you Linux geeks break out of denial and stop making excuses for
    the failure of your shitty overrated underwhelming OS the sooner you might
    have a chance of competing with Window$. You really need to send Linux to
    the scrap heap where it belongs and start from scratch.

    -ws
    Will Spencer, Sep 12, 2007
    #6
  7. Mickey Mouse

    Allistar Guest

    Will Spencer wrote:

    > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:24:22 +1200, Allistar wrote:
    >
    >> Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >>
    >>> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >>> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market.
    >>> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of
    >>> older Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total
    >>> market share.
    >>>
    >>> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >>> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >>> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >>> August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>>
    >>> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

    >>
    >> Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS installed
    >> by default?
    >>
    >> How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily
    >> count them?

    >
    > The sooner you Linux geeks break out of denial and stop making excuses for
    > the failure of your shitty overrated underwhelming OS the sooner you might
    > have a chance of competing with Window$. You really need to send Linux to
    > the scrap heap where it belongs and start from scratch.


    Eh? I was questioning the counting technique used, not making any excuses.

    --
    A.
    Allistar, Sep 12, 2007
    #7
  8. In message <1safeha4fhzik$>, Will Spencer wrote:

    > The sooner you Linux geeks break out of denial and stop making excuses for
    > the failure of your shitty overrated underwhelming OS the sooner you might
    > have a chance of competing with Window$. You really need to send Linux to
    > the scrap heap where it belongs and start from scratch.


    So how's your 64-bit Vista installation doing? All your hardware drivers
    work OK? Running any actual 64-bit apps yet?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 12, 2007
    #8
  9. Mickey Mouse

    Will Spencer Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:17:21 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > In message <1safeha4fhzik$>, Will Spencer wrote:
    >
    >> The sooner you Linux geeks break out of denial and stop making excuses for
    >> the failure of your shitty overrated underwhelming OS the sooner you might
    >> have a chance of competing with Window$. You really need to send Linux to
    >> the scrap heap where it belongs and start from scratch.

    >
    > So how's your 64-bit Vista installation doing? All your hardware drivers
    > work OK? Running any actual 64-bit apps yet?


    I didn't know you cared so much, but no major problem thanks. Looking to
    upgrade to a quad-core cpu soon. Hey maybe I'll stick BSD on this old box.

    -ws
    Will Spencer, Sep 12, 2007
    #9
  10. Mickey Mouse

    thingy Guest

    Allistar wrote:
    > Squiggle wrote:
    >
    >> Allistar wrote:
    >>> Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >>>> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market.
    >>>> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of
    >>>> older Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total
    >>>> market share.
    >>>>
    >>>> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >>>> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >>>> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >>>> August, 2007 8 0.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>>>
    >>>> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5
    >>> Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS installed
    >>> by default?

    >> Yes.

    >
    > So the numbers in themselves don't represent anything other than usage (i.e.
    > they don't represent any other qualities of the respective operating
    > systems - you can't say "OS x is better because more people use it").
    >
    >>> How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily
    >>> count them?

    >> "This report lists the market share of the top operating systems in use.
    >> This data is derived by aggregating the traffic across our network of
    >> websites that use our service."

    >
    > Which doesn't take into account user agent spoofing (which which tend to
    > over represent Windows figures rather than the other way around).
    >
    > Allistar.


    Or if the websites who use the service are MSN.com, or
    microsoft.com....or even maybe hotmail.com...if say they use slashdot,
    I'd expect a 30~90% or something Linux OS share.

    ;]

    These numbers are relative, so if vista is selling new machines, linux
    use may well be growing and even acceleratingly but because Vista is the
    biggest share it skews the figures...

    Look at these figures another way, Vista would seem to be gaining at the
    expense of XP and win2k....so its eating its own parents....mac and
    linux numbers and growth seem un-effected by Vista...

    A better/interesting figure would be to identify the upgrades to Vista
    from earlier OSes (on the same hardware). This would identify just how
    easy it is to do an upgrade, ie people complain Linux is hard to
    install, but these same people may well have never installed an OS just
    run the one that came with the box.

    lies, damn lies and statistics....as someone once said.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Sep 12, 2007
    #10
  11. Mickey Mouse

    thingy Guest

    Will Spencer wrote:
    > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:24:22 +1200, Allistar wrote:
    >
    >> Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >>
    >>> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >>> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac market.
    >>> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of older
    >>> Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total market
    >>> share.
    >>>
    >>> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >>> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >>> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >>> August, 2007 80.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>>
    >>> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

    >> Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS installed by
    >> default?
    >>
    >> How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily count
    >> them?

    >
    > The sooner you Linux geeks break out of denial and stop making excuses for
    > the failure of your shitty overrated underwhelming OS the sooner you might
    > have a chance of competing with Window$. You really need to send Linux to
    > the scrap heap where it belongs and start from scratch.
    >
    > -ws


    yeah right....

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Sep 12, 2007
    #11
  12. Mickey Mouse

    sam Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > Will Spencer wrote:

    <a load of needle dick diddling>
    >
    > yeah right....
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing


    Don't quote the c**t FFS
    sam, Sep 12, 2007
    #12
  13. Mickey Mouse

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:33:33 +1200, sam <>
    exclaimed:

    >thingy wrote:
    >> Will Spencer wrote:

    ><a load of needle dick diddling>
    >>
    >> yeah right....
    >>
    >> regards
    >>
    >> Thing

    >
    >Don't quote the c**t FFS


    I do find it remarkable how you guys always react with such abuse when
    people post an opinion that differs from yours.

    Scared of open debate, or just a twat?
    Fred Dagg, Sep 12, 2007
    #13
  14. Mickey Mouse

    impossible Guest

    "thingy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Allistar wrote:
    >> Squiggle wrote:
    >>
    >>> Allistar wrote:
    >>>> Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >>>>> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac
    >>>>> market.
    >>>>> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of
    >>>>> older Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total
    >>>>> market share.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >>>>> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >>>>> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >>>>> August, 2007 8 0.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5
    >>>> Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS
    >>>> installed
    >>>> by default?
    >>> Yes.

    >>
    >> So the numbers in themselves don't represent anything other than usage
    >> (i.e.
    >> they don't represent any other qualities of the respective operating
    >> systems - you can't say "OS x is better because more people use it").
    >>


    No, but if your a Linux developer looking at those numbers, you're going to
    be pretty depressed, I'd say. Linux usage is only just now beginning to
    overtake Windows 98 usage. What does that tell you?

    >>>> How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily
    >>>> count them?
    >>> "This report lists the market share of the top operating systems in use.
    >>> This data is derived by aggregating the traffic across our network of
    >>> websites that use our service."

    >>
    >> Which doesn't take into account user agent spoofing (which which tend to
    >> over represent Windows figures rather than the other way around).
    >>

    >
    > Or if the websites who use the service are MSN.com, or microsoft.com....or
    > even maybe hotmail.com...if say they use slashdot, I'd expect a 30~90% or
    > something Linux OS share.
    >
    > ;]
    >


    If the sample is large enough, none of that matters as far as the accuracy
    of the estimate is concerned. Give or take a couple of percentage points
    either way, the story is much the same.

    > These numbers are relative, so if vista is selling new machines, linux use
    > may well be growing and even acceleratingly but because Vista is the
    > biggest share it skews the figures...
    >


    Well, yes, that's how percentages work. Populations grow and computer usage
    grows with it -- but if the growth in usage of Linux is lagging behind the
    growth in usage of Windows, then that's a sobering statistic for Linux
    developers to think about. Yes?

    > Look at these figures another way, Vista would seem to be gaining at the
    > expense of XP and win2k....so its eating its own parents....mac and linux
    > numbers and growth seem un-effected by Vista...
    >


    You'd kind of expect newer versions of Windows to take market share from
    older versions, but to see that the overall Windows market share has
    actually grown since the release of Vista is pretty remarkable. Linux
    numbers, on the other hand, seem uneffected by **anything** that Linux
    developers do, and that can't be good news.

    > A better/interesting figure would be to identify the upgrades to Vista
    > from earlier OSes (on the same hardware). This would identify just how
    > easy it is to do an upgrade, ie people complain Linux is hard to install,
    > but these same people may well have never installed an OS just run the one
    > that came with the box.
    >


    I'm not sure why you'd single out self-installations on old hardware as a
    meaningful indicator. If Linux developers have any chance at all of making a
    breakthrough in terms of market share, it seeems to me that they'll have to
    start lifting their game above the level of the easy-to-please enthusiast
    crowd and show some big wins for once in the oem arena.
    impossible, Sep 12, 2007
    #14
  15. Mickey Mouse

    RL Guest

    Allistar wrote:
    > Which doesn't take into account user agent spoofing (which which tend to
    > over represent Windows figures rather than the other way around).


    User agent spoofing by default isn't common practice on any OSS I've
    seen. If anything, the Linux community take pride in splashing the Linux
    or distribution name over anything and everything.

    The user agent isn't the only way to determine the OS. OS fingerprinting
    by identifying behaviour of the underlying TCP/IP implementation is also
    possible and used in practice. I can for example, using PF on
    OpenBSD/FreeBSD, identify the OS and make decisions at the firewall
    level based on what it thinks the remote OS is running.

    RL
    RL, Sep 12, 2007
    #15
  16. In message <3mn82lwwoder$>, Will Spencer wrote:

    > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:17:21 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message <1safeha4fhzik$>, Will Spencer
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> The sooner you Linux geeks break out of denial and stop making excuses
    >>> for the failure of your shitty overrated underwhelming OS the sooner you
    >>> might have a chance of competing with Window$. You really need to send
    >>> Linux to the scrap heap where it belongs and start from scratch.

    >>
    >> So how's your 64-bit Vista installation doing? All your hardware drivers
    >> work OK? Running any actual 64-bit apps yet?

    >
    > I didn't know you cared so much, but no major problem thanks.


    Still having to run two different versions of Internet Explorer? How do you
    decide which one to use when?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 12, 2007
    #16
  17. Hi there,

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:33:33 +1200, sam <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >>thingy wrote:
    >>
    >>>Will Spencer wrote:

    >>
    >><a load of needle dick diddling>
    >>
    >>>yeah right....

    >>
    >>Don't quote the c**t FFS

    >
    > I do find it remarkable how you guys always react with such abuse when
    > people post an opinion that differs from yours.
    >
    > Scared of open debate, or just a twat?


    Will's post is not an honest opinion, its just trolling. In
    that regard its very similar to many of yours.

    --
    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
    "Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
    or not they wanted all these wars"...
    Chris Wilkinson, Sep 12, 2007
    #17
  18. Mickey Mouse

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:42:42 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
    <> exclaimed:

    >>><a load of needle dick diddling>
    >>>
    >>>>yeah right....
    >>>
    >>>Don't quote the c**t FFS

    >>
    >> I do find it remarkable how you guys always react with such abuse when
    >> people post an opinion that differs from yours.
    >>
    >> Scared of open debate, or just a twat?

    >
    >Will's post is not an honest opinion, its just trolling. In
    >that regard its very similar to many of yours.


    It was an opinion, and a valid one.

    Sure, he said it in a relatively antagonistic way, but what he's
    saying isn't necessarily wrong.
    Fred Dagg, Sep 12, 2007
    #18
  19. Mickey Mouse

    Peter Guest

    Peter, Sep 12, 2007
    #19
  20. Mickey Mouse

    thingy Guest

    impossible wrote:
    > "thingy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Allistar wrote:
    >>> Squiggle wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Allistar wrote:
    >>>>> Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> As to be expected, Vista continues it's growth in the market, having
    >>>>>> surpassed Windows 2000 earlier this year, and now the entire Mac
    >>>>>> market.
    >>>>>> The Intel based Macs see incremental growth mostly at the expense of
    >>>>>> older Macs. Other OS's (including Linux) continue to decline in total
    >>>>>> market share.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Quarterly WinXP Vista Win2K MacOS MacPC Other
    >>>>>> February, 2007 84.33% 0.93% 4.75% 4.29% 2.09% 3.60%
    >>>>>> May, 2007 82.02% 3.74% 4.31% 3.95% 2.51% 3.47%
    >>>>>> August, 2007 8 0.48% 6.26% 3.66% 3.33% 2.82% 3.44%
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5
    >>>>> Wouldn't one expect growth when most new computers have this OS
    >>>>> installed
    >>>>> by default?
    >>>> Yes.
    >>> So the numbers in themselves don't represent anything other than usage
    >>> (i.e.
    >>> they don't represent any other qualities of the respective operating
    >>> systems - you can't say "OS x is better because more people use it").
    >>>

    >
    > No, but if your a Linux developer looking at those numbers, you're going to
    > be pretty depressed, I'd say.


    Then you would be wrong.

    Linux usage is only just now beginning to
    > overtake Windows 98 usage. What does that tell you?


    Depends if you are developing for Linux clients or on a Linux server
    platform for the client to access via a web browser or one off gui
    client. From what I have read there are a lot of developers turning to
    Linux for the preferred OS or at least also supported....in this
    scenario the desktop does not matter especially if it is via java client
    running inside Firefox or IEx...OSS community depressed? no, MS might be

    >>>>> How do they count Linux users when there is no central point to easily
    >>>>> count them?
    >>>> "This report lists the market share of the top operating systems in use.
    >>>> This data is derived by aggregating the traffic across our network of
    >>>> websites that use our service."
    >>> Which doesn't take into account user agent spoofing (which which tend to
    >>> over represent Windows figures rather than the other way around).
    >>>

    >> Or if the websites who use the service are MSN.com, or microsoft.com....or
    >> even maybe hotmail.com...if say they use slashdot, I'd expect a 30~90% or
    >> something Linux OS share.
    >>
    >> ;]
    >>

    >
    > If the sample is large enough, none of that matters as far as the accuracy
    > of the estimate is concerned. Give or take a couple of percentage points
    > either way, the story is much the same.
    >
    >> These numbers are relative, so if vista is selling new machines, linux use
    >> may well be growing and even acceleratingly but because Vista is the
    >> biggest share it skews the figures...
    >>

    >
    > Well, yes, that's how percentages work. Populations grow and computer usage
    > grows with it -- but if the growth in usage of Linux is lagging behind the
    > growth in usage of Windows, then that's a sobering statistic for Linux
    > developers to think about. Yes?


    No, see above.

    >> Look at these figures another way, Vista would seem to be gaining at the
    >> expense of XP and win2k....so its eating its own parents....mac and linux
    >> numbers and growth seem un-effected by Vista...
    >>

    >
    > You'd kind of expect newer versions of Windows to take market share from
    > older versions, but to see that the overall Windows market share has
    > actually grown since the release of Vista is pretty remarkable.


    If more PCs are sold per month, than under XP, the Vista market is going
    to grow, this does not make Vista a roaring success, just a follow on.
    If Vista was "that" good you would expect to see a significant dent in
    MAC and Linux, it has not.

    Linux
    > numbers, on the other hand, seem uneffected by **anything** that Linux
    > developers do, and that can't be good news.


    again you are looking from the wrong angle I believe.

    >> A better/interesting figure would be to identify the upgrades to Vista
    >> from earlier OSes (on the same hardware). This would identify just how
    >> easy it is to do an upgrade, ie people complain Linux is hard to install,
    >> but these same people may well have never installed an OS just run the one
    >> that came with the box.
    >>

    >
    > I'm not sure why you'd single out self-installations on old hardware as a
    > meaningful indicator.


    It may or may not be, but a self installation is one of choice, someone
    actually had to either go buy Vista or Linux or a MAC OSX upgrade and do
    it....again, there would seem to be a huge pirated issue around Vista,
    so how many of these are paid for installs and how many are
    pirated....Linux is free you dont need to pirate it.

    If Linux developers have any chance at all of making a
    > breakthrough in terms of market share, it seeems to me that they'll have to
    > start lifting their game above the level of the easy-to-please enthusiast
    > crowd and show some big wins for once in the oem arena.


    I see this paragraph as wrong on several counts,

    I play runescape for instance it runs on MAC, Windows and Linux via
    firefox (or IEx) what did the developers actually have to do to make
    that work? nothing its java based, the OS platform does not matter...

    there is no such thing as easy to please in the OSS world unlike the MS
    world we OSS users are pretty demanding....only the best code and
    application survives. If your code does not meet the needs of the users,
    it stagnates and dies off....in the commercial world they just add
    un-wanted features and charge a shed load more for something that
    improves productivity marginally if at all.

    Yhere are generally no big wins, or killer apps. Well maybe for
    virtualisation, Xen might actually be that killer code.

    Possibly ad block as well. You could also look at Firefox's market share
    v IEx (dropped to 63%?) and the complaints from web site content about
    Firefox's ad block add on...unlike IEx that panders to the marketing
    brigade and allows pop ups galore and other highly intrusive actions,
    firefox contains them and even dismisses some of them from a users
    expericence......this does not block all adds but it does stop the
    excessive clutter and in your face stuff web sites try and force at you.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Sep 12, 2007
    #20
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