Visaster SP1

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. <http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/03/20/vista_sp1_complaints/>

    All those people who keep saying "Vista works fine for me, what's the
    problem?" are like pointing out that most of the people in Baghdad get
    through each day without being car-bombed, so what's all this about a war?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 21, 2008
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    RL Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > <http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/03/20/vista_sp1_complaints/>
    >
    > All those people who keep saying "Vista works fine for me, what's the
    > problem?" are like pointing out that most of the people in Baghdad get
    > through each day without being car-bombed, so what's all this about a war?


    I've had it installed for a month or so, since it became available to
    MSDN subscribers. Works fine* for me.

    * Vista is still a stinking pile of crap compared to Windows 2000, in my
    opinion. The eye candy is nice, but a bit over-the-top in places, and it
    is just too hard to do things. Everything, in typical Microsoft style,
    has been moved around unnecessarily, but Vista moves more, and adds many
    new levels of GUI, so I have to go through three or so different
    dialogues to change network settings.

    I've been lucky. With the exception of not being able to install VMWare
    Server on Vista x64, everything else has worked fine.

    RL
     
    RL, Mar 21, 2008
    #2
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  3. On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:27:08 +1300, RL wrote:

    >> All those people who keep saying "Vista works fine for me, what's the
    >> problem?" are like pointing out that most of the people in Baghdad get
    >> through each day without being car-bombed, so what's all this about a
    >> war?

    >
    > I've had it installed for a month or so, since it became available to
    > MSDN subscribers. Works fine* for me.
    >
    > * Vista is still a stinking pile of crap compared to Windows 2000, in my
    > opinion. The eye candy is nice, but a bit over-the-top in places, and it
    > is just too hard to do things.


    M$ Windows Vi$ta (WinNT6) is a disaster from beginning to end.

    Much like M$ WinNT5.1 (XP) it assumes that you are an idiot and dumbs
    down everything to the point that only an idiot could actually understand
    what the dialogue box says.

    And moreover, it assumes you do not know what you're doing with your
    computer.

    While that may in fact be the case with many there should be a way to
    turn of the dumb-down factor.


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    Franklin D Roosevelt: "We have always known that heedless self-interest
    was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics."
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Mar 21, 2008
    #3
  4. In article <>, lid
    says...
    >
    > While that may in fact be the case with many there should be a way to
    > turn of the dumb-down factor.
    >


    Now THAT'S a good idea. I suggest you patent it and sell it for 15 million
    bucks to Gates.

    -P.

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Mar 21, 2008
    #4
  5. On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:39:53 +1200, Peter Huebner wrote:

    >> While that may in fact be the case with many there should be a way to
    >> turn of the dumb-down factor.
    >>
    >>

    > Now THAT'S a good idea. I suggest you patent it and sell it for 15
    > million bucks to Gates.


    Why?

    Such an OS already exists. It's called Linux. ;o)


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    Franklin D Roosevelt: "We have always known that heedless self-interest
    was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics."
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Mar 21, 2008
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    "Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC)" <> wrote:

    > On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:39:53 +1200, Peter Huebner wrote:
    >
    > >> While that may in fact be the case with many there should be a way to
    > >> turn of the dumb-down factor.
    > >>
    > >>

    > > Now THAT'S a good idea. I suggest you patent it and sell it for 15
    > > million bucks to Gates.

    >
    > Why?
    >
    > Such an OS already exists. It's called Linux. ;o)


    OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.
     
    whoisthis, Mar 21, 2008
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > <http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/03/20/vista_sp1_complaints/>
    >
    > All those people who keep saying "Vista works fine for me, what's the
    > problem?" are like pointing out that most of the people in Baghdad get
    > through each day without being car-bombed, so what's all this about a war?


    Some of my fellow workers who specialise in MS just came back from an MS
    intro to 2008 server....they commented that they found it funny that MS
    called server 2008 based on "vista technology". Given its issues of
    stability claiming a server OS is based on an un-stable and resource hog
    'd desktop just seemed dumb as....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Mar 21, 2008
    #7
  8. In article <>, whoisthis did
    write:

    > OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.


    Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as witness
    the "Leopard" debacle.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 21, 2008
    #8
  9. In <fs1h9h$e7v$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In article <>, whoisthis
    > did write:
    >
    >> OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.

    >
    > Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as witness
    > the "Leopard" debacle.


    Which debacle? Some people have had some problems. I've never heard of
    that not happening with any OS, ever.

    --
    Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
     
    Roger Johnstone, Mar 22, 2008
    #9
  10. In article <>, Roger Johnstone did
    write:

    > In <fs1h9h$e7v$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In article <>, whoisthis
    >> did write:
    >>
    >>> OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.

    >>
    >> Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as witness
    >> the "Leopard" debacle.

    >
    > Which debacle? Some people have had some problems. I've never heard of
    > that not happening with any OS, ever.


    Not to the extent of data loss problems
    <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/06/mac-os-x-10-5-1-on-the-way-everyone-dies-of-shock>.

    And there was the QuickTime 7.4 issue
    <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/23/video-pros-dont-install-that-quicktime-7-4-update-yet>,
    which wasn't even about functionality that was useful to the customers who
    were conned into installing it.

    Oh, and don't forget this
    <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/21/apple-may-be-crippling-dtrace-to-protect-its-drm>.

    Anybody who thinks Apple is somehow morally superior to Microsoft is just
    deluded.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 22, 2008
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <fs1u4o$lgk$>,
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    > In article <>, Roger Johnstone did
    > write:
    >
    > > In <fs1h9h$e7v$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > >> In article <>, whoisthis
    > >> did write:
    > >>
    > >>> OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.
    > >>
    > >> Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as witness
    > >> the "Leopard" debacle.

    > >
    > > Which debacle? Some people have had some problems. I've never heard of
    > > that not happening with any OS, ever.

    >
    > Not to the extent of data loss problems
    > <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/06/mac-os-x-10-5-1-on-the-w
    > ay-everyone-dies-of-shock>.
    >
    > And there was the QuickTime 7.4 issue
    > <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/23/video-pros-dont-install-
    > that-quicktime-7-4-update-yet>,
    > which wasn't even about functionality that was useful to the customers who
    > were conned into installing it.
    >
    > Oh, and don't forget this
    > <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/21/apple-may-be-crippling-d
    > trace-to-protect-its-drm>.
    >
    > Anybody who thinks Apple is somehow morally superior to Microsoft is just
    > deluded.


    "...more than 50% of all [CERT] security advisories ... in the first 10
    months of 2002 were for Linux and other open-source software solutions."




    In another thread discussing the tracking of kernel regressions [story],
    Linux creator Linus Torvalds noted that the kernel is evolving so
    quickly it is inevitable that bugs will be introduced. He used a git
    query to determine that there are an average of over 65 patches being
    committed every single day, "that translates to five hundred commits a
    week, two _thousand_ commits per month, and 25 thousand commits per
    year. As a fairly constant stream. Will mistakes happen? Hell *yes*." He
    continued on to add, "and I'd argue that any flow that tries to
    'guarantee' that mistakes don't happen is broken. It's a sure-fire way
    to just frustrate people, simply because it assumes a level of
    perfection in maintainers and developers that isn't possible."





    Security researchers have uncovered "critical" security flaws in a
    version of the Linux kernel used by a large number of popular
    distributions. The three bugs allow unauthorized users to read or write
    to kernel memory locations or to access certain resources in certain
    servers, according to a SecurityFocus advisory.

    They could be exploited by malicious, local users to cause denial of
    service attacks, disclose potentially sensitive information, or gain
    "root" privileges, according to security experts. The bug affects all
    versions of the Linux kernel up to version 2.6.24.1, which contains a
    patch. Distributions such as Ubuntu, Turbolinux, SuSE, Red Hat,
    Mandriva, Debian and others are affected. The problems are within three
    functions in the system call fs/splice.c, according to an advisory from
    Secunia.


    So apart from that I run a LOT of Macs and have had zero problems as I
    live on the bleeding edge.
     
    whoisthis, Mar 22, 2008
    #11
  12. In <fs1u4o$lgk$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In article <>, Roger
    > Johnstone did write:
    >
    >> In <fs1h9h$e7v$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> In article <>, whoisthis
    >>> did write:
    >>>
    >>>> OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.
    >>>
    >>> Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as witness
    >>> the "Leopard" debacle.

    >>
    >> Which debacle? Some people have had some problems. I've never heard
    >> of that not happening with any OS, ever.

    >
    > Not to the extent of data loss problems
    > <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/06/mac-os-x-10-5-1-
    > on-the-way-everyone-dies-of-shock>.
    >
    > And there was the QuickTime 7.4 issue
    > <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/23/video-pros-dont-
    > install-that-quicktime-7-4-update-yet>, which wasn't even about
    > functionality that was useful to the customers who were conned into
    > installing it.
    >
    > Oh, and don't forget this
    > <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/21/apple-may-be-
    > crippling-dtrace-to-protect-its-drm>.


    All minor problems. Yes, serious for some people, but they all only
    affected a small minority of users, all had workarounds, and all were
    fixed very quickly by Apple. That does not a debacle make. I installed
    10.5.0 on two Macs and had no major probles, just like the vast majority
    of other users.

    > Anybody who thinks Apple is somehow morally superior to Microsoft is
    > just deluded.


    I think Apple are a corporation who have a responsibilty to their
    shareholders to make as much money as possible, but I also think they
    are morally superior to Microsoft because they've shown themselves to be
    less likely to throw their customers to the wolves just to make another
    buck.

    --
    Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
     
    Roger Johnstone, Mar 22, 2008
    #12
  13. On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:46:23 +0000, Roger Johnstone wrote:

    > I think Apple are a corporation who have a responsibilty to their
    > shareholders to make as much money as possible, but I also think they
    > are morally superior to Microsoft because they've shown themselves to be
    > less likely to throw their customers to the wolves just to make another
    > buck.


    Yes - less likely, not "unlikely".


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    Franklin D Roosevelt: "We have always known that heedless self-interest
    was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics."
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Mar 22, 2008
    #13
  14. In article <>, whoisthis did
    write:

    > They could be exploited by malicious, local users to cause denial of
    > service attacks...


    As opposed to a Mac, which you can't keep secure from "local" users anyway.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 22, 2008
    #14
  15. On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:39:38 +1300, whoisthis wrote:

    > "...more than 50% of all [CERT] security advisories ... in the first 10
    > months of 2002 were for Linux and other open-source software solutions."


    How many separate open-source "software solutions", projects,
    applications, and operating systems were collated into that total?

    Compare that total number of completely separate pieces of software
    (including those that are Windows-only or MAC-only) with the total number
    of advisories against any of microsoft's software.

    How many pieces of separate Microsoft software are there?

    Lets tally them. I'm sure I won't list all of them. Feel free to add to
    the list:

    MS WindowsNT (all versions)
    MS Windows Media Player (Supposedly built-in to WindowsNT, but lets count
    it as separate)
    MS Internet Explorer - MAC version
    MS Internet Explorer - Windows version. Supposedly built-in to WindowsNT,
    but lets count it as separate)
    MS Office (All WindowsNT versions)
    MS Office (All MAC versions)
    MS Works (is this still supported?)
    MS Sharepoint
    MS Visio

    OK. That's 9 separate applications responsible for nearly 50% of all
    [Cert] security advisories.

    Hold on while I check for the total number of SourceForge projects...

    Registered Projects: 172,696

    Add on top of that the BSDs, and Linux, and the GNU project.

    9 Vs 172,696.

    Every so slight difference in Nr don't you think?


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    Franklin D Roosevelt: "We have always known that heedless self-interest
    was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics."
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Mar 22, 2008
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Fantail Guest

    On Mar 22, 4:24 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:

    > Anybody who thinks Apple is somehow morally superior to Microsoft is just
    > deluded.


    Microsoft and Bill Gates learned much of their trade from Apple. Most
    of the the rest they got from IBM. I hate Apple, mostly for what they
    taught Microsoft. The rest for that pile of fancy marketed shit
    called the Macintosh.

    Apple users are exactly that, deluded; brainwashed into subservience.
     
    Fantail, Mar 22, 2008
    #16
  17. On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:39:38 +1300, whoisthis wrote:

    > Will mistakes happen? Hell *yes*." He continued on to add, "and I'd
    > argue that any flow that tries to 'guarantee' that mistakes don't happen
    > is broken. It's a sure-fire way to just frustrate people, simply because
    > it assumes a level of perfection in maintainers and developers that
    > isn't possible."


    DVP Implementation
    TST Implementation
    Peer Review
    UAT Implementation
    UAT Testing
    UAT Signoff
    CAB approval
    PRD Implementation
    USR Acceptance.

    How hard can that be?


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    Franklin D Roosevelt: "We have always known that heedless self-interest
    was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics."
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Mar 22, 2008
    #17
  18. In article <>, Roger Johnstone did
    write:

    > In <fs1u4o$lgk$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In article <>, Roger
    >> Johnstone did write:
    >>
    >>> In <fs1h9h$e7v$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> In article <>, whoisthis
    >>>> did write:
    >>>>
    >>>>> OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.
    >>>>
    >>>> Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as witness
    >>>> the "Leopard" debacle.
    >>>
    >>> Which debacle? Some people have had some problems. I've never heard
    >>> of that not happening with any OS, ever.

    >>
    >> Not to the extent of data loss problems
    >> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/06/mac-os-x-10-5-1-
    >> on-the-way-everyone-dies-of-shock>.
    >>
    >> And there was the QuickTime 7.4 issue
    >> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/23/video-pros-dont-
    >> install-that-quicktime-7-4-update-yet>, which wasn't even about
    >> functionality that was useful to the customers who were conned into
    >> installing it.
    >>
    >> Oh, and don't forget this
    >> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/21/apple-may-be-
    >> crippling-dtrace-to-protect-its-drm>.

    >
    > All minor problems.


    There's no such thing as a "minor" data-loss bug.

    > Yes, serious for some people, but they all only
    > affected a small minority of users, all had workarounds, and all were
    > fixed very quickly by Apple.


    So when did Apple fix the DTrace issue?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 22, 2008
    #18
  19. In <fs2c47$ttn$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In article <>, Roger
    > Johnstone did write:
    >
    >> In <fs1u4o$lgk$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> In article <>, Roger
    >>> Johnstone did write:
    >>>
    >>>> In <fs1h9h$e7v$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>>> In article <>,
    >>>>> whoisthis did write:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as
    >>>>> witness the "Leopard" debacle.
    >>>>
    >>>> Which debacle? Some people have had some problems. I've never heard
    >>>> of that not happening with any OS, ever.
    >>>
    >>> Not to the extent of data loss problems
    >>> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/06/mac-os-x-10-5-
    >>> 1- on-the-way-everyone-dies-of-shock>.
    >>>
    >>> And there was the QuickTime 7.4 issue
    >>> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/23/video-pros-
    >>> dont- install-that-quicktime-7-4-update-yet>, which wasn't even
    >>> about functionality that was useful to the customers who were conned
    >>> into installing it.
    >>>
    >>> Oh, and don't forget this
    >>> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/21/apple-may-be-
    >>> crippling-dtrace-to-protect-its-drm>.

    >>
    >> All minor problems.

    >
    > There's no such thing as a "minor" data-loss bug.


    Sure there is: Data lost as proportion of data successfully transferred
    = really, really tiny number.

    >> Yes, serious for some people, but they all only
    >> affected a small minority of users, all had workarounds, and all were
    >> fixed very quickly by Apple.

    >
    > So when did Apple fix the DTrace issue?


    It's not broken. It's working exactly as Apple intended it to. ;P

    --
    Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
     
    Roger Johnstone, Mar 22, 2008
    #19
  20. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    sam Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <fs1u4o$lgk$>,
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, Roger Johnstone did
    >> write:
    >>
    >>> In <fs1h9h$e7v$> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> In article <>, whoisthis
    >>>> did write:
    >>>>
    >>>>> OR take the next step up and use Mac OSX.
    >>>> Which has been encountering its own complexity problems, as witness
    >>>> the "Leopard" debacle.
    >>> Which debacle? Some people have had some problems. I've never heard of
    >>> that not happening with any OS, ever.

    >> Not to the extent of data loss problems
    >> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/06/mac-os-x-10-5-1-on-the-w
    >> ay-everyone-dies-of-shock>.
    >>
    >> And there was the QuickTime 7.4 issue
    >> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/23/video-pros-dont-install-
    >> that-quicktime-7-4-update-yet>,
    >> which wasn't even about functionality that was useful to the customers who
    >> were conned into installing it.
    >>
    >> Oh, and don't forget this
    >> <http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/21/apple-may-be-crippling-d
    >> trace-to-protect-its-drm>.
    >>
    >> Anybody who thinks Apple is somehow morally superior to Microsoft is just
    >> deluded.

    >
    > "...more than 50% of all [CERT] security advisories ... in the first 10
    > months of 2002 were for Linux and other open-source software solutions."
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > In another thread discussing the tracking of kernel regressions [story],
    > Linux creator Linus Torvalds noted that the kernel is evolving so
    > quickly it is inevitable that bugs will be introduced. He used a git
    > query to determine that there are an average of over 65 patches being
    > committed every single day, "that translates to five hundred commits a
    > week, two _thousand_ commits per month, and 25 thousand commits per
    > year. As a fairly constant stream. Will mistakes happen? Hell *yes*." He
    > continued on to add, "and I'd argue that any flow that tries to
    > 'guarantee' that mistakes don't happen is broken. It's a sure-fire way
    > to just frustrate people, simply because it assumes a level of
    > perfection in maintainers and developers that isn't possible."
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Security researchers have uncovered "critical" security flaws in a
    > version of the Linux kernel used by a large number of popular
    > distributions. The three bugs allow unauthorized users to read or write
    > to kernel memory locations or to access certain resources in certain
    > servers, according to a SecurityFocus advisory.
    >
    > They could be exploited by malicious, local users to cause denial of
    > service attacks, disclose potentially sensitive information, or gain
    > "root" privileges, according to security experts. The bug affects all
    > versions of the Linux kernel up to version 2.6.24.1, which contains a
    > patch. Distributions such as Ubuntu, Turbolinux, SuSE, Red Hat,
    > Mandriva, Debian and others are affected. The problems are within three
    > functions in the system call fs/splice.c, according to an advisory from
    > Secunia.
    >
    >
    > So apart from that I run a LOT of Macs and have had zero problems as I
    > live on the bleeding edge.


    You are "electronics support" for a school that runs lots of Macs
    according to your staff homepage.
     
    sam, Mar 22, 2008
    #20
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