Virtual Memory limitations of 32-bit Program in x64 environment

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Spinnacre, Jan 11, 2007.

  1. Spinnacre

    Spinnacre Guest

    Can a 32-bit program running in XP/Vista x64 access more virtual memory than it could in XP/Vista x86?

    My concern is that the 32-bit program will be able to access at most 3GB RAM (with the Large-Address-Aware switch), but what are the limitations of the paging file (virtual memory)?

    I am thinking that I could add a Solid-State Disk (SSD) for use by the paging file and attain reasonably good performance (better with DRAM vs. Flash SSD) when my program runs out of system memory (RAM) and potentially never run out of memory space. But, it has been suggested that 32-bit programs would be limited to 3 or 4GB of Total Memory (real and virtual). Is this true?

    Thanks in advance

    ~Spinnacre
     
    Spinnacre, Jan 11, 2007
    #1
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  2. That is OS dependent. The paging file is managed by the OS. 64bit OS's can handle much larger virtual memory than can 32bit OS's. XP Pro x64 can use up to 16TB.
    "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message news:...
    Can a 32-bit program running in XP/Vista x64 access more virtual memory than it could in XP/Vista x86?

    My concern is that the 32-bit program will be able to access at most 3GB RAM (with the Large-Address-Aware switch), but what are the limitations of the paging file (virtual memory)?

    I am thinking that I could add a Solid-State Disk (SSD) for use by the paging file and attain reasonably good performance (better with DRAM vs. Flash SSD) when my program runs out of system memory (RAM) and potentially never run out of memory space. But, it has been suggested that 32-bit programs would be limited to 3 or 4GB of Total Memory (real and virtual). Is this true?

    Thanks in advance

    ~Spinnacre
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jan 11, 2007
    #2
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  3. Spinnacre

    Spinnacre Guest

    Thanks Colin, I really appreciate this!
    "Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message news:...
    That is OS dependent. The paging file is managed by the OS. 64bit OS's can handle much larger virtual memory than can 32bit OS's. XP Pro x64 can use up to 16TB.
    "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message news:...
    Can a 32-bit program running in XP/Vista x64 access more virtual memory than it could in XP/Vista x86?

    My concern is that the 32-bit program will be able to access at most 3GB RAM (with the Large-Address-Aware switch), but what are the limitations of the paging file (virtual memory)?

    I am thinking that I could add a Solid-State Disk (SSD) for use by the paging file and attain reasonably good performance (better with DRAM vs. Flash SSD) when my program runs out of system memory (RAM) and potentially never run out of memory space. But, it has been suggested that 32-bit programs would be limited to 3 or 4GB of Total Memory (real and virtual). Is this true?

    Thanks in advance

    ~Spinnacre
     
    Spinnacre, Jan 11, 2007
    #3
  4. You're welcome.
    "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message news:...
    Thanks Colin, I really appreciate this!
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jan 11, 2007
    #4
  5. 32-bit programs written with the large memory address aware switch can
    access 4GB of virtual memory address space in 64bit Windows. That is the
    limit for 32-bit programs. The OS, however, has access to a total of 16 TB
    of virtual memory address space, 8 of which is reserved for applications and
    8 of which is for the OS itself. 32-bit programs run in the WOW64 subsystem
    and are limited to the maximum flat memory address space of a 32-bit
    program - 4 GB.

    There are several whitepapers on this on the MS site, in both the XP and
    Server 2003 areas, along with a wealth of detail in the MSDN area as well.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


    "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    Can a 32-bit program running in XP/Vista x64 access more virtual memory than
    it could in XP/Vista x86?

    My concern is that the 32-bit program will be able to access at most 3GB RAM
    (with the Large-Address-Aware switch), but what are the limitations of the
    paging file (virtual memory)?

    I am thinking that I could add a Solid-State Disk (SSD) for use by the
    paging file and attain reasonably good performance (better with DRAM vs.
    Flash SSD) when my program runs out of system memory (RAM) and potentially
    never run out of memory space. But, it has been suggested that 32-bit
    programs would be limited to 3 or 4GB of Total Memory (real and virtual). Is
    this true?

    Thanks in advance

    ~Spinnacre
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 13, 2007
    #5
  6. Spinnacre

    Spinnacre Guest

    Thanks for clearing that up Charlie. It's not good news, but at least now I
    know for sure.

    Anyway, I love your blog and enjoyed your article on the Vista performance
    improvements on the Vista site.

    ~Spinnacre
     
    Spinnacre, Jan 13, 2007
    #6
  7. If you have a 32-bit program that is being memory starved, it's definitely
    time to talk to the vendor about a 64bit version.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

    "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for clearing that up Charlie. It's not good news, but at least now
    > I know for sure.
    >
    > Anyway, I love your blog and enjoyed your article on the Vista performance
    > improvements on the Vista site.
    >
    > ~Spinnacre
    >
    >
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 13, 2007
    #7
  8. Spinnacre

    Spinnacre Guest

    That is exactly what this is about. And I a, having a direct dialog with the
    CEO and founder of one of the more established and specialized 3D CAD
    packages on the market (Rhino3D). They are a little behind on the move to
    64-bit for a number of reasons:

    "1. We are not seeing any speed increase in the native 64-bit version. And,
    for some reason that we have not tracked down, Rhino x64 is slower in some
    cases.

    2. Not all the development tools and libraries that we use are available for
    64-bit. That means that we may need to leave out a few features, or spend a
    great deal of development time.

    3. All plug-ins will need to be compiled for Rhino x64. For us and the
    3rd-party developers that means two sets of everything, including evals and
    service releases. I expect many plug-ins will not be available for Rhino
    x64."

    -Bob McNeel (from the Rhino3D newsgroup)

    For sure, they are a little behind on 64-bit adoption. But, trust me, they
    are WAY AHEAD on program capabilities and customer responsiveness (features
    and open framework) as well as support! The major problem with switching
    right now is both demand and because a major new release (1st in 4 years) is
    coming this month.

    Although the 32-bit RAM limitations will be more and more pressing over
    time, it is not as big of a factor in 3D modeling as it is in 3D rendering.
    Luckily, the rendering packages are nearly all available in native 64-bit
    and work well with 32-bit Rhino as plugins and standalone.

    ~Spinnacre




    "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If you have a 32-bit program that is being memory starved, it's definitely
    > time to talk to the vendor about a 64bit version.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.
    > http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
    >
    > "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Thanks for clearing that up Charlie. It's not good news, but at least now
    >> I know for sure.
    >>
    >> Anyway, I love your blog and enjoyed your article on the Vista
    >> performance improvements on the Vista site.
    >>
    >> ~Spinnacre
    >>
    >>

    >
     
    Spinnacre, Jan 14, 2007
    #8
  9. Understood. The good news is that even running as a 32-bit program in WOW64,
    you should have a good bit of help from the 4 GB limit as opposed to the 3GB
    that is the best you can do with 32-bit Windows. Especially since to get
    there you haven't had to starve the OS.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64


    "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > That is exactly what this is about. And I a, having a direct dialog with
    > the CEO and founder of one of the more established and specialized 3D CAD
    > packages on the market (Rhino3D). They are a little behind on the move to
    > 64-bit for a number of reasons:
    >
    > "1. We are not seeing any speed increase in the native 64-bit version.
    > And, for some reason that we have not tracked down, Rhino x64 is slower in
    > some cases.
    >
    > 2. Not all the development tools and libraries that we use are available
    > for 64-bit. That means that we may need to leave out a few features, or
    > spend a great deal of development time.
    >
    > 3. All plug-ins will need to be compiled for Rhino x64. For us and the
    > 3rd-party developers that means two sets of everything, including evals
    > and service releases. I expect many plug-ins will not be available for
    > Rhino x64."
    >
    > -Bob McNeel (from the Rhino3D newsgroup)
    >
    > For sure, they are a little behind on 64-bit adoption. But, trust me, they
    > are WAY AHEAD on program capabilities and customer responsiveness
    > (features and open framework) as well as support! The major problem with
    > switching right now is both demand and because a major new release (1st in
    > 4 years) is coming this month.
    >
    > Although the 32-bit RAM limitations will be more and more pressing over
    > time, it is not as big of a factor in 3D modeling as it is in 3D
    > rendering. Luckily, the rendering packages are nearly all available in
    > native 64-bit and work well with 32-bit Rhino as plugins and standalone.
    >
    > ~Spinnacre
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> If you have a 32-bit program that is being memory starved, it's
    >> definitely time to talk to the vendor about a 64bit version.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Charlie.
    >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
    >>
    >> "Spinnacre" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Thanks for clearing that up Charlie. It's not good news, but at least
    >>> now I know for sure.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, I love your blog and enjoyed your article on the Vista
    >>> performance improvements on the Vista site.
    >>>
    >>> ~Spinnacre
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jan 14, 2007
    #9
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