Vietnam government chooses software

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Peter, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Peter

    Peter Guest

    An interesting question; if you were choosing a software strategy for
    a country, would you pick
    (a) paying $squillions to a USA corporate to use their software
    (b) just pirate the foreign software and wear any diplomatic fallout
    (c) upskill your people to use open source software
    (d) build your own from scratch.

    Looks like Vietnam is having a go at option (c).
    http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/

    It will be interesting to see how they get on.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Jan 11, 2009
    #1
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  2. Peter

    impossible Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:4969b394$...
    >
    > An interesting question; if you were choosing a software strategy for
    > a country, would you pick
    > (a) paying $squillions to a USA corporate to use their software
    > (b) just pirate the foreign software and wear any diplomatic fallout
    > (c) upskill your people to use open source software
    > (d) build your own from scratch.
    >
    > Looks like Vietnam is having a go at option (c).
    > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/
    >
    > It will be interesting to see how they get on.
    >
    >


    Just so we're clear:

    The **unelected government** of Vietnam is having a go at open-source
    software. The **unelected government** of Vietnam has issued a directive to
    that effect, which the people of Vietnam have no choice but to obey.

    That's what you meant, right?
     
    impossible, Jan 11, 2009
    #2
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  3. Peter

    Peter Guest

    impossible wrote:
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:4969b394$...
    >> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/

    >
    > Just so we're clear:
    > The **unelected government** of Vietnam is having a go at open-source
    > software. The **unelected government** of Vietnam has issued a directive
    > to that effect, which the people of Vietnam have no choice but to obey.


    Just so we're clear; the linked article states this applies to government
    agencies, not "the people of Vietnam".

    The article says the instruction "requests that computer traders not
    sell PCs installed with cracked software". Doesn't read like a case
    of "no choice", does it?


    Peter
     
    Peter, Jan 11, 2009
    #3
  4. In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > In article <4969b394$>,
    > Peter <> wrote:
    >
    >> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/

    >
    > Left out
    > (e) Use the software where people are the most productive because this
    > recognizes that the user is the most expensive part of the computer.


    In a country where a legit copy of Windows or OS X is the price of about a
    year's salary? I don't think so.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 11, 2009
    #4
  5. Peter

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    "Puddle" <> wrote in message
    news:496a56f1$...
    >
    > You think companies should price differently based on the country they are
    > selling in?


    Oh but they do! See below.

    > I often wish companies based in the UK and USA would have pity on us in NZ
    > with our crap dollar and salaries :)


    It's the opposite. There have been several pieces of software that I've
    purchased online that were *more* expensive because I was buying from NZ.
    This is with digital delivery too, so no shipping costs.

    I have no idea what the rationale behind this is.

    Example, Corel. Paint Shop Pro X2 (used to be a great piece of software
    some versions prior, but they've run it into the ground) is US$69 for the
    download version if you're buying from the US, or about NZ$120, but it's
    NZ$229 if you're buying from here. That's nearly double the price.
     
    Nik Coughlin, Jan 11, 2009
    #5
  6. Peter

    Richard Guest

    whoisthis wrote:

    > Well there is the problem with poorer countries then on selling the
    > software ...


    Which is why you limit the transfer of licenses like solidworks do, its
    only valid in the country of purchase.
     
    Richard, Jan 11, 2009
    #6
  7. In message <gkdr7n$8h6$>, Richard wrote:

    > whoisthis wrote:
    >
    >> Well there is the problem with poorer countries then on selling the
    >> software ...

    >
    > Which is why you limit the transfer of licenses like solidworks do, its
    > only valid in the country of purchase.


    So much for the doctrine of first sale.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 12, 2009
    #7
  8. In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > In article <496a5f4b$>, Puddle <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> If companies were smart they probably should price lower in poorer
    >> countries I guess. I am trying to think of some reason they shouldn't
    >> but can't...

    >
    > Well there is the problem with poorer countries then on selling the
    > software ...


    Why exactly is the operation of the market a "problem"?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 12, 2009
    #8
  9. In message <496a5f4b$>, Puddle wrote:

    > If companies were smart they probably should price lower in poorer
    > countries I guess. I am trying to think of some reason they shouldn't
    > but can't...


    "From each according to their ability to pay" -- sounds a bit Communist,
    doesn't it?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 12, 2009
    #9
  10. Peter

    impossible Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >> news:4969b394$...
    >>> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/

    >>
    >>> An interesting question; if you were choosing a software strategy for
    >>> a country, would you pick
    >>> (a) paying $squillions to a USA corporate to use their software
    >>> (b) just pirate the foreign software and wear any diplomatic fallout
    >>> (c) upskill your people to use open source software
    >>> (d) build your own from scratch.
    >>>
    >>> Looks like Vietnam is having a go at option (c).
    >>> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/
    >>>
    >>> It will be interesting to see how they get on.
    >>>

    >> Just so we're clear:
    >> The **unelected government** of Vietnam is having a go at open-source
    >> software. The **unelected government** of Vietnam has issued a directive
    >> to that effect, which the people of Vietnam have no choice but to obey.
    >>
    >>
    >>That's what you meant, right?
    >>

    > Just so we're clear; the linked article states this applies to government
    > agencies, not "the people of Vietnam".
    >


    Just so we're clear -- The people of Vietnam have no say in any government
    matters. So the Vietnamese Communist Party is issuing a directive to
    government minions to, as you say, "upskill your people to use open source
    software". And you call this "interesting"? How so?

    > The article says the instruction "requests that computer traders not
    > sell PCs installed with cracked software". Doesn't read like a case
    > of "no choice", does it?
    >


    The people of Vietnam have no say in any government matters. What part of
    that reality don't you understand?
     
    impossible, Jan 12, 2009
    #10
  11. In message <496aa28b$>, Puddle wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message <496a5f4b$>, Puddle wrote:
    >>
    >>> If companies were smart they probably should price lower in poorer
    >>> countries I guess. I am trying to think of some reason they shouldn't
    >>> but can't...

    >>
    >> "From each according to their ability to pay" -- sounds a bit Communist,
    >> doesn't it?

    >
    > It sounds like smart money making to me which I don't think is
    > communism.


    It's price discrimination, though. And it can only work if you can prevent
    the ones who can get it cheaper from passing it on to those who would
    otherwise have to pay more.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 12, 2009
    #11
  12. Peter

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "whoisthis" typed:
    > In article <496a5f4b$>, Puddle <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Nik Coughlin wrote:
    >>> "Puddle" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:496a56f1$...
    >>>>
    >>>> You think companies should price differently based on the country
    >>>> they are selling in?
    >>>
    >>> Oh but they do! See below.
    >>>
    >>>> I often wish companies based in the UK and USA would have pity on
    >>>> us in NZ with our crap dollar and salaries :)
    >>>
    >>> It's the opposite. There have been several pieces of software that
    >>> I've purchased online that were *more* expensive because I was
    >>> buying from NZ. This is with digital delivery too, so no shipping
    >>> costs.
    >>>
    >>> I have no idea what the rationale behind this is.
    >>>
    >>> Example, Corel. Paint Shop Pro X2 (used to be a great piece of
    >>> software some versions prior, but they've run it into the ground)
    >>> is US$69 for the download version if you're buying from the US, or
    >>> about NZ$120, but it's NZ$229 if you're buying from here. That's
    >>> nearly double the price.

    >>
    >> Ahh yes I realise that we pay more in NZ for everything and a lot of
    >> people come up with the lame excuse that it is because of distance
    >> etc which of course does put the price up but not to the extremes we
    >> see here. I was more talking about companies considering lower
    >> average wages and their buying power/currency exchange and then
    >> lowering their prices or making them higher after considering those
    >> factors.
    >>
    >> If companies were smart they probably should price lower in poorer
    >> countries I guess. I am trying to think of some reason they
    >> shouldn't but can't...

    >
    > Well there is the problem with poorer countries then on selling the
    > software ...


    So much ;discussion', so little research:

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...bats-chinese-piracy-via-major-price-cuts.html
    http://www.cnet.com/topic-news/developing-country/microsoft-windows-xp.html
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/aug04/08-11WinXPStarterPilotPR.mspx
    http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtop...k=t&sd=a&sid=27c7c447e12ac98d91ad149d352acc4d

    --
    Shaun.
     
    ~misfit~, Jan 12, 2009
    #12
  13. Peter

    Gordon Guest

    On 2009-01-12, impossible <> wrote:
    >
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> impossible wrote:
    >>> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:4969b394$...
    >>>> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/
    >>>
    >>>> An interesting question; if you were choosing a software strategy for
    >>>> a country, would you pick
    >>>> (a) paying $squillions to a USA corporate to use their software
    >>>> (b) just pirate the foreign software and wear any diplomatic fallout
    >>>> (c) upskill your people to use open source software
    >>>> (d) build your own from scratch.
    >>>>
    >>>> Looks like Vietnam is having a go at option (c).
    >>>> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/
    >>>>
    >>>> It will be interesting to see how they get on.
    >>>>
    >>> Just so we're clear:
    >>> The **unelected government** of Vietnam is having a go at open-source
    >>> software. The **unelected government** of Vietnam has issued a directive
    >>> to that effect, which the people of Vietnam have no choice but to obey.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>That's what you meant, right?
    >>>

    >> Just so we're clear; the linked article states this applies to government
    >> agencies, not "the people of Vietnam".
    >>

    >
    > Just so we're clear -- The people of Vietnam have no say in any government
    > matters. So the Vietnamese Communist Party is issuing a directive to
    > government minions to, as you say, "upskill your people to use open source
    > software". And you call this "interesting"? How so?
    >
    >> The article says the instruction "requests that computer traders not
    >> sell PCs installed with cracked software". Doesn't read like a case
    >> of "no choice", does it?
    >>

    >
    > The people of Vietnam have no say in any government matters. What part of
    > that reality don't you understand?
    >
    >

    No I am for one not clear
     
    Gordon, Jan 12, 2009
    #13
  14. Peter

    Fierce Guppy Guest

    Puddle expressed precisely :
    > Allistar wrote:
    >> Puddle wrote:
    >>
    >>> Nik Coughlin wrote:
    >>>> "Puddle" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:496a56f1$...
    >>>>> You think companies should price differently based on the country they
    >>>>> are selling in?
    >>>> Oh but they do! See below.
    >>>>
    >>>>> I often wish companies based in the UK and USA would have pity on us
    >>>>> in NZ with our crap dollar and salaries :)
    >>>> It's the opposite. There have been several pieces of software that I've
    >>>> purchased online that were *more* expensive because I was buying from
    >>>> NZ. This is with digital delivery too, so no shipping costs.
    >>>>
    >>>> I have no idea what the rationale behind this is.
    >>>>
    >>>> Example, Corel. Paint Shop Pro X2 (used to be a great piece of software
    >>>> some versions prior, but they've run it into the ground) is US$69 for
    >>>> the download version if you're buying from the US, or about NZ$120, but
    >>>> it's NZ$229 if you're buying from here. That's nearly double the price.
    >>> Ahh yes I realise that we pay more in NZ for everything and a lot of
    >>> people come up with the lame excuse that it is because of distance etc
    >>> which of course does put the price up but not to the extremes we see
    >>> here. I was more talking about companies considering lower average
    >>> wages and their buying power/currency exchange and then lowering their
    >>> prices or making them higher after considering those factors.
    >>>
    >>> If companies were smart they probably should price lower in poorer
    >>> countries I guess. I am trying to think of some reason they shouldn't
    >>> but can't...

    >>
    >> In an open market you'd get people taking advantage of this loophole. E.g.
    >> they'd try and buy the product from the foreign market at the much reduced
    >> price and bring it back home to them.
    >>
    >> It's not uncommon for sellers of software to price in the NZ/AUS/UK/US
    >> market on a dollar for pound basis. E.g. if it costs NZD$1000, thern to buy
    >> it in Australia it would be AUD$1000, and in the US: USD$1000 and in the
    >> UK: UKP$1000. A huge difference in actual price but the market seems to
    >> bear it.

    >
    > Must be interesting in countries like zimbabwe :), I think the last note they
    > printed was a $10,000,000,000 note.


    A can baked beans costs $30,000,000,000, and then there is the added
    cost of a roll of bog paper which averages close to $22 million for a
    single sheet of 2-ply.

    http://tinyurl.com/99crb4

    Tony.

    --
    email: fierce,guppy@paradise,net,nz
    Christchurch, New Zealand.
     
    Fierce Guppy, Jan 12, 2009
    #14
  15. Peter

    Peter Guest

    Puddle wrote:
    > You think companies should price differently based on the country they
    > are selling in?


    Yes, Microsoft has done this in some countries, eg Thailand
    http://www.thaipr.net/nc/readnews.aspx?newsid=125BDDDB0A30A54993A52AC39AE88A06
    This article talks about a Home and Student edition, but I'm sure
    I've heard of cheap versions for Thai businesses.

    IIRC the software is in Thai language and script, so not a convenient
    way for folk in NZ to get cheap software.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Jan 12, 2009
    #15
  16. In message <4969b394$>, Peter wrote:

    > Looks like Vietnam is having a go at option (c).
    > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/tech/2009/01/822425/


    Another factor in their decision is that there is no Vietnamese-localized
    version of Windows, whereas several localized Linux distros are available.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 12, 2009
    #16
  17. Peter

    Peter Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <4969b394$>,
    > Peter <> wrote:
    >> An interesting question; if you were choosing a software strategy for
    >> a country, would you pick
    >> (a) paying $squillions to a USA corporate to use their software
    >> (b) just pirate the foreign software and wear any diplomatic fallout
    >> (c) upskill your people to use open source software
    >> (d) build your own from scratch.

    >
    > Left out
    > (e) Use the software where people are the most productive because this
    > recognizes that the user is the most expensive part of the computer.


    That is definitely one of the factors you need to consider when choosing,
    but you still need to select from one of the four a, b, c, d.
     
    Peter, Jan 12, 2009
    #17
  18. Peter

    Fierce Guppy Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro brought next idea :
    > In message <496a5f4b$>, Puddle wrote:
    >
    >> If companies were smart they probably should price lower in poorer
    >> countries I guess. I am trying to think of some reason they shouldn't
    >> but can't...

    >
    > "From each according to their ability to pay" -- sounds a bit Communist,
    > doesn't it?


    No. The latter is a Communist principle stripping a person of his
    choice about whom benefits from his abilities, effectively consigning
    him to a life of servicing other people's needs. Under Communism,
    having more ability than others becomes a liability itself. It is
    perhaps wishful thinking on your part that you could use Puddle's words
    to ease in and make acceptable a little bit of your own ideology.

    Tony.

    --
    email: fierce,guppy@paradise,net,nz
    Christchurch, New Zealand.
     
    Fierce Guppy, Jan 12, 2009
    #18
  19. Peter

    oneofus Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <496b0cfc$>,
    > Peter <> wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>> In article <4969b394$>,
    >>> Peter <> wrote:
    >>>> An interesting question; if you were choosing a software strategy for
    >>>> a country, would you pick
    >>>> (a) paying $squillions to a USA corporate to use their software
    >>>> (b) just pirate the foreign software and wear any diplomatic fallout
    >>>> (c) upskill your people to use open source software
    >>>> (d) build your own from scratch.
    >>> Left out
    >>> (e) Use the software where people are the most productive because this
    >>> recognizes that the user is the most expensive part of the computer.

    >> That is definitely one of the factors you need to consider when choosing,
    >> but you still need to select from one of the four a, b, c, d.

    >
    > It is the biggest factor.


    What he said.
    You still need to choose.
    If you run a developing country (a) prolly not be the best option.
     
    oneofus, Jan 12, 2009
    #19
  20. In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > Given the charge out rate of $100/hr ...


    Which is about two months' salary in Vietnam.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 12, 2009
    #20
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