VGA over CAT5e

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by BigAl.NZ@gmail.com, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Hi Guys,

    I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    (sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.

    I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    search seems to suggest is possible. I was wondering if anyone had any
    better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.

    Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    wiring on a new DB15 for example?

    Thanks in advance,

    -Al
    , Oct 6, 2008
    #1
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  2. PeeCee Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    > monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    > but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    > (sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.
    >
    > I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    > search seems to suggest is possible. I was wondering if anyone had any
    > better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.
    >
    > Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    > wiring on a new DB15 for example?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
    > -Al




    Al

    Well I was going to say different cable for different uses, but then I found
    this site:
    http://www.geocities.com/dougburbidge/vgaovercat5.html
    The author says they've achieved 15 metres.
    For the cost of the cable and solder time, worth trying.

    If that doesn't work you can get gadgets that convert from VGA to RJ45 and
    back again:
    http://www.svideo.com/vgacat5.html

    Best
    Paul.
    PeeCee, Oct 6, 2008
    #2
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  3. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    > monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    > but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    > (sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.
    >
    > I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    > search seems to suggest is possible. I was wondering if anyone had any
    > better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.
    >
    > Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    > wiring on a new DB15 for example?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
    > -Al


    This cable, has a round connector in the center, and is intended to make
    it easier to penetrate walls. This cable is 50ft long, and claims to
    support 1600x1200 (refresh rate not stated, could be 60Hz).

    http://www.tripplite.com/EN/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3351

    Look for more "Easy Pull" items here. They also make DVI and HDMI
    versions.

    http://www.tripplite.com/EN/products/index.cfm?txtEntryID=32

    In all the advertising cruft on the pages, it doesn't state
    what the O.D. of the connector is. It looks like it might
    be 1" diameter or so, but hard to say for sure.

    It mentions pulling through 3/4" conduit here. That is, if
    you trust marketing people to pull cables.

    http://www.tripplite.com/shared/literature/Flyer/952906.pdf

    Another brand example here. RapidRun modular cabling system. 3/4" conduit.

    http://www.cablemeister.com/product.php?productid=50731

    They also make RGBHV to VGA breakout cables. Such a cable
    would be missing signals for DDC (used by a computer to
    get resolution information from a monitor), but cables
    like this are sometimes used for projector devices connected
    to computers. Your application would probably be happy
    with the basic RGBHV signals. RGB is color, HV are sync
    signals. There are several ways to carry sync, including
    sync on green. So again, the requirements can vary a bit,
    and having all five RGBHV helps cover all possibilities.

    http://www.ramelectronics.net/renderImage.image?imageName=products/VGA2BNC.jpg

    The idea would be, you make the hole big enough, to pass
    the BNC connectors one at a time. The example picture above,
    has made the BNC connectors excessively fancy. A little
    extra slack on the five coaxes, would probably help.
    The solution is less ideal than the RapidRun, but perhaps
    easier to buy locally. You can connect the BNCs with
    some coax wires with mating BNCs on the end.

    I suppose you could buy BNC kits, as long as they're designed
    for the thin coax, and simply fit crimp BNCs on the end
    of each coax. So that would be another possibility.

    If soldering a VGA connector, the hard part would be
    connecting the RGB coax signals. Coax and soldering
    don't mix. Which is why I put so many "pull" style
    solutions in the above :) If you visited me two hours
    after giving me a soldering job like that to do, I'd
    be in "full cuss mode". The insulation inside coax
    melts easily.

    Paul
    Paul, Oct 6, 2008
    #3
  4. Guest

    On Oct 6, 5:55 pm, Wayne.B <> wrote:
    > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
    > >Hi Guys,

    >
    > >I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    > >monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    > >but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    > >(sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.

    >
    > >I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    > >search seems to suggest is possible. I was wondering if anyone had any
    > >better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.

    >
    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ethernet vga extender
    >
    > generates 257,000  hits.
    >
    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kvm cat5 extender
    >
    > generates 140, 000 hits.
    >
    > Here's a few that look promising:
    >
    > http://sewelldirect.com/KVMcat5extender.asp
    >
    > http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=503&sku=39970
    >
    > >Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    > >wiring on a new DB15 for example?

    >
    > You would need the skills of a micro-surgeon and a very fine solder
    > tip.


    I am liking the ethernet idea. I found these mounts I could use which
    have sealed end caps for when not in use:

    http://au.farnell.com/1254803/connectors/product.us0?sku=amphenol-pcd-rjfrb71

    This way it has a fighting chance of surviving in the marine
    enviroment!

    -Al
    , Oct 6, 2008
    #4
  5. writes:

    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    > monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    > but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    > (sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.


    How about cutting the connector from one cable end, pulling
    the cable and then soldering a new one to the end.
    Or building entirely new VGA cable the length you want
    by soldering the connectors yourself to both ends.
    The soldering the cable consisting of several mini
    coax condictors and many other conductor DB15 VGA connector
    is not the easiest job, but doable if you are good
    at building cables. I have done that kind of soldering
    myself when I have needed some custon VGA cables for
    some applications.

    > I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    > search seems to suggest is possible.


    Runnign VGA over CAT5e is possible.
    There are commercial active adapters that do the conversion
    "right" and work even for some longer distances. Those
    cost money but work quite well.
    Then in Internet there are some simple plans to run
    VGA over CAT5e cables. When you use a shielded CAT5e cable
    and not too long distances, those hacks can work quite well
    but might not give perfect "crystal clear" picture like
    a real VGA cable or commercial converter would give.
    Running VGA signal on unshielded CAT5e cable with simple
    DIY passive adapters is not a vry good idea: the image
    quality will get worse and your cable will radiate
    out considerable RF interference which could interfere
    for example with boat radios.

    > I was wondering if anyone had any
    > better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.


    I just gave you several ideas.

    > Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    > wiring on a new DB15 for example?


    Yes. I have done this several times.

    --
    Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/)
    Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at
    http://www.epanorama.net/
    Tomi Holger Engdahl, Oct 6, 2008
    #5
  6. philo Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi Guys,
    >
    > I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    > monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    > but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    > (sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.
    >
    > I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    > search seems to suggest is possible. I was wondering if anyone had any
    > better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.
    >
    > Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    > wiring on a new DB15 for example?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
    > -Al



    VGA cable is shielded
    and CAT5 is not, so you would get some horrible ghosting.

    BTW, there may still be some ghosting even with VGA cable
    philo, Oct 6, 2008
    #6
  7. JohnO Guest

    "philo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi Guys,
    >>
    >> I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    >> monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    >> but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    >> (sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.
    >>
    >> I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    >> search seems to suggest is possible. I was wondering if anyone had any
    >> better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.
    >>
    >> Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    >> wiring on a new DB15 for example?
    >>
    >> Thanks in advance,
    >>
    >> -Al

    >
    >
    > VGA cable is shielded
    > and CAT5 is not, so you would get some horrible ghosting.
    >
    > BTW, there may still be some ghosting even with VGA cable
    >


    STP CAT5e or CAT 6 would do the trick, and at these lengths the cost
    difference isn't an issue.

    -John O
    JohnO, Oct 6, 2008
    #7
  8. Rick Jones Guest

    It might be worthwhile to think-out a bit beyond the size of the hole
    though which you want to pass this signal. Stuff like "what will
    hold-up best when I'm at the bridge, in a storm, near a rocky shore
    and I really need to know where I am?" I say that only half in jest.

    rick jones
    --
    oxymoron n, commuter in a gas-guzzling luxury SUV with an American flag
    these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
    feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
    Rick Jones, Oct 6, 2008
    #8
  9. Guest

    On 6 Oct, 18:30, Rick Jones <> wrote:
    > It might be worthwhile to think-out a bit beyond the size of the hole
    > though which you want to pass this signal.  Stuff like "what will
    > hold-up best when I'm at the bridge, in a storm, near a rocky shore
    > and I really need to know where I am?"  I say that only half in jest.
    >


    I have worked with commercial solutions using this technology.
    Was about 5 or 6 years ago.

    I forget the name of the product.

    One serious problem was that by *design* (as I understand it)
    the various different pairs in the cat5 cable have different
    twist rates. This results in different cable lengths and
    produces different delays for each of the
    RGB and Sync. The solution overcame this by having
    user adjustable delays controlled by DIP switches
    at the remote end.

    (or is sync on one of the RGB?) doesn't matter - is still broken.

    NIGHTMARE - in the event of any moves or changes.

    Not sure of your proposed length would run into this or not.
    I suspect it would since the frequency required to drive
    a display is rather high.

    In the case I observed the differential delay issue
    was *very* significant over two floors of
    a narrow buillding.

    There of course may be commercial solutions available now that
    avoid the problems entirely. Perhaps by combining the
    signals into one pair.

    Composite Video?
    , Oct 7, 2008
    #9
  10. Guest

    >
    > Not sure of your proposed length would run into this or not.
    > I suspect it would since the frequency required to drive
    > a display is rather high.


    Length in this case 4m absolute MAX!

    -Al
    , Oct 7, 2008
    #10
  11. "philo" <> writes:

    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi Guys,
    > >
    > > I need to get a VGA signal from the Nav Station in my boat to the
    > > monitor in the bridge. I could just run a VGA cable (about 4m worth)
    > > but I need to pass the cable through some small holes for the looming
    > > (sp?) and the DB15 connectors wont fit unless I make the hole bigger.
    > >
    > > I am thinking about running the VGA singal over CAT5e, which a Google
    > > search seems to suggest is possible. I was wondering if anyone had any
    > > better ideas, keeping costs fairly low.
    > >
    > > Has anyone here had any success cutting the end off a VGA cable and
    > > wiring on a new DB15 for example?
    > >
    > > Thanks in advance,
    > >
    > > -Al

    >
    >
    > VGA cable is shielded
    > and CAT5 is not, so you would get some horrible ghosting.


    Thethe wrong cable impedance and lack of shileding between
    RGB signals will not cause ghosting. Most ghosting will
    be caused by the impedance mismatches.

    The lack of shield in cable will cause that that cable
    will pick up more easily external interference
    and will radiate out more RF interference and properly
    shielded VGA cable.


    > BTW, there may still be some ghosting even with VGA cable


    True. The VGA cables vary in quality. The good ones are good
    but there are also bad ones. One thing to keep in mind
    in VGA connections is that it is a good idea to keep the
    number of VGA connectors along the link minimum (ideally
    only at source and destination), because the VGA connector
    impedance is not exactly 75 ohms as the system is designed
    for, and having many such wrong impedance connectors on
    the way will cause impedanc mismatches that cause
    reflections. For VGA cables is best to use a correct
    length cable in the beginning, and avoid using
    orignal cable + extension cable combinations.


    --
    Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/)
    Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at
    http://www.epanorama.net/
    Tomi Holger Engdahl, Oct 7, 2008
    #11
  12. PeeCee Guest

    "Alfred" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:23:03 +1300, "PeeCee" <> wrote:

    snip
    >
    > I used to make up VGA cables for control room applications. 15M using
    > individual screened conductors was about the recommended limit




    mmm wouldn't surprise me.
    I've seen VGA extension cables as short as 2M exhibit ghosting.

    P.
    PeeCee, Oct 7, 2008
    #12
  13. "PeeCee" <> writes:

    > "Alfred" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:23:03 +1300, "PeeCee" <> wrote:

    > snip
    > >
    > > I used to make up VGA cables for control room applications. 15M using
    > > individual screened conductors was about the recommended limit

    >
    >
    >
    > mmm wouldn't surprise me.
    > I've seen VGA extension cables as short as 2M exhibit ghosting.


    There are well built VGA extension cables (use 75 ohm mini coax cables
    at least for RGB signals). Those work generally well.
    Also there are those crappy cables built just from general purpose
    computer cable with lots of wires inside one outer shield. Those
    cheap cables have typically wrong impedance and considerable
    crosstalk between signals -> ghosting problems

    Then the used resolution + refresh combination has effect.
    Almost any crapphy cable works for 640x480 60 Hz resolution
    but for 1280x12o4 and higher resolutions the quality of the cable
    starts really slow up.

    --
    Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/)
    Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at
    http://www.epanorama.net/
    Tomi Holger Engdahl, Oct 8, 2008
    #13
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