UV filter/protector glass, circular polarizer, etc.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Destin_FL, Mar 10, 2005.

  1. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    Hey all,
    OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried in
    research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish the
    new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.

    Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more knowledgeable
    and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on the
    front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on all
    of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that
    than lens repair or replacement...
    But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters have a
    downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter much?

    Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular polarizers? Do
    they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?

    Thanks a ton!

    Tim
    Destin_FL, Mar 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. Destin_FL

    Owamanga Guest

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:23:08 -0600, "Destin_FL" <>
    wrote:

    >Hey all,
    >OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried in
    >research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish the
    >new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.
    >
    >Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more knowledgeable
    >and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on the
    >front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on all
    >of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that
    >than lens repair or replacement...
    >But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters have a
    >downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter much?
    >
    >Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular polarizers? Do
    >they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?


    You'll love the D70. Don't waste any shots - switch it to RAW+B on day
    1 and leave it there.

    Circular Polarizers (CPLs) work. Do buy a good one.

    Do you need a UV? - Well, how many times has it saved your bacon in
    the past - only you can answer that. That insurance costs money and
    image quality.

    Quality of glass is a big deal. If you *must* use a UV filter, make
    sure it's multi-coated, and always remove it when using the CPL. These
    days I only use the UV in dusty/risky situations, preferring the lens
    hood for protection. Lens hood only comes off when using the CPL - not
    for quality reasons, it's just fiddly to move the filter with the hood
    on.

    A cheap UV can introduce flair, unwanted reflections, slight color
    shift and loss of resolution. Hold one up to the light, you can see
    the problem with your own eyes. All filters cut down the light to some
    degree and introduce the risk of vignetting at wide angles.

    Disadvantage to not using a UV is a more frequent cleaning cycle for
    the front element of the lens, I try to avoid doing this in the field
    preferring to take my time at home, taking care not to damage
    anything.

    In my past experience of keeping a UV on always, the *only* time I
    have damaged the lens was removing the filter for cleaning - I dropped
    it onto the front element and it scratched off some of the
    non-reflective coating. This had no noticeable optical effect, but
    damn annoying. Now I invert the lens so the filter drops into my hand.
    For this reason, I'd prefer a bayonet fitting for filters.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Owamanga, Mar 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. Destin_FL

    Bob Salomon Guest

    In article <Jv_Xd.26189$Sn6.13636@lakeread03>,
    "Destin_FL" <> wrote:

    > Hey all,
    > OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried in
    > research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish the
    > new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.
    >
    > Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more
    > knowledgeable
    > and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on the
    > front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on
    > all
    > of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that
    > than lens repair or replacement...
    > But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters have a
    > downside? "


    Not if you use good ones.

    > ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter much?
    >

    Yes, if you want as little effect as possible on resolution, contrast,
    color saturation, etc.

    > Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular polarizers?
    > Do
    > they work?


    Of course they do. Go shoot Choctawhatchee Bay without and without one
    and it is obvious how well they work.

    >Does the quality there matter a whole lot?


    Again, yes

    From a former resident of Niceville and Valpariso

    --
    To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
    Bob Salomon, Mar 10, 2005
    #3
  4. Destin_FL wrote:
    > Hey all,
    > OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days
    > buried in research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up
    > with D70. Wish the new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but
    > couldn't wait.
    >
    > Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more
    > knowledgeable and experienced than myself think about having one of
    > the UV filters on the front of the lens, and just leaving it on
    > there. I have always had one on all of my cameras, including my
    > C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace that than lens repair or
    > replacement...
    > But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the
    > filters have a downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece
    > of glass matter much?
    >
    > Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
    > polarizers? Do they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?
    >
    > Thanks a ton!
    >
    > Tim


    First, the polarizers. Yes they work. The polarizing part is much the
    same on all such lenses. There is a slight difference between liner and
    circular, but for 99.7% of the time you can use a circular anywhere you can
    use a liner, and likely something less that 50% the other way. Note, there
    are a few (less than 1%) where you may want a liner over a circular. for
    some reason other than price.

    I guess I should ask what do you mean by "work" They filter out light
    based on the angle and the polarization of the light. You adjust the filter
    for the direction you want. They can often (but not always) reduce
    reflections and darken parts of the sky.


    Skylight, Haze and UV filters are much the same. They both block UV
    light. You can't see UV light, but most films can. Those films see it as
    blue or blue grey. There is no rule as to exactly what a UV or Skylight
    filter is so different manufacturers often have different ideas. They
    differ in exactly where they cut off the light and how smoothly they cut off
    the light. Different films react differently so that complicates things
    even more.

    You can say in general that Skylight filters are a little stronger and
    often will "warm" the colors because they generally cut off a little of the
    blue light. Some manufacturers offer a number of different such filters of
    different ?strengths? (higher of lower cut off points). The best part of
    this is they all do about the same thing and they generally do their thing
    best when needed most. That is if there is a lot of UV light they get ride
    of it and if there is little, they don't do much.

    In short, for the most part it does not make much difference in real life.

    Most people don't buy, or should I say, most people are sold UV filters not
    to correct light problems, but to "Protect Your Expensive Lens." Keep in
    mind that for many years the guy behind the counter (I was one of them) may
    have made more on the filter, than he made on the lens! His incentive was
    to make money and sell you something. Fear of damage is a good sales tool.
    Sort of like the paint protection package they will offer you on a new car.

    In real life, with a few exceptions like a windy sandy beach or a
    photographer who over-cleans his lenses, few photographers need the
    protection of a filter. But then again, even a good one does not cost all
    that much* and they are easy to use. The down side is they will very
    slightly reduce sharpness and very slightly increase flare. It is a wash,
    little gain and little loss.

    Most of the time you would get better protection with a good lens shade and
    it would be likely to reduce flare, but they are more difficult to use.

    So if you want one and if you like warmer colored photos get a skylight, if
    you like less warm photos go for a UV or Haze.

    * On of the tricks of selling add ones like filters is to have the price low
    enough that the buyer will say, even if it does not work I did not speed
    that much on it. Which is why you will not often find the sales person
    trying to sell you a B&W brand filter that is going to cost a few additional
    $$$ but cause less image problems.

    Given the real protection offered (on a small percentage of lenses will
    suffer any damage to a lens preventable by a UV filter and the fact that the
    UV filter is not free, especially if you buy a good one (a good UV for a
    typical wide angle lens can cost of the $100 US range a lot more difference
    than the $10 you suggest) the value factor is likely to be negative. In
    addition the lose of optical ability of a lens which does suffer damage that
    might have been prevented by a UV filter is generally very small.

    What may well be worth the cost to most photographers is the feeling of
    security, which is one of the real values of any insurance.

    My training is in economics and accounting and I tend to go overboard on
    the measurable facts. I also see that many people don't understand or
    properly measure those economic facts.


    Please note that this author is not the same Joseph Meehan who is a
    professional author of Photograph materials.


    --
    Joseph Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
    Joseph Meehan, Mar 10, 2005
    #4
  5. Destin_FL

    Owamanga Guest

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:25:04 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
    <> wrote:
    >
    >> Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
    >> polarizers? Do they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?

    >
    > First, the polarizers. Yes they work. The polarizing part is much the
    >same on all such lenses. There is a slight difference between liner and
    >circular, but for 99.7% of the time you can use a circular anywhere you can
    >use a liner, and likely something less that 50% the other way. Note, there
    >are a few (less than 1%) where you may want a liner over a circular. for
    >some reason other than price.


    Nobody has said this (probably because it's obvious) but you *must*
    use a CPL rather than a PL if you want to avoid problems with the AF
    and more importantly, metering.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Owamanga, Mar 10, 2005
    #5
  6. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    Wow... incredible, great, superb, USEFUL answers!!
    Thanks to each of you soooooooo much for the help. I'm sure I will have more
    questions after Monday when the D70 arrives.

    Tim
    Destin_FL, Mar 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Destin_FL

    Owamanga Guest

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 13:53:13 -0600, "Destin_FL" <>
    wrote:

    >Wow... incredible, great, superb, USEFUL answers!!
    >Thanks to each of you soooooooo much for the help. I'm sure I will have more
    >questions after Monday when the D70 arrives.


    Here's what you need to do when you get it:

    Set the clock\date.
    Turn on the extended custom menu. (Spanner menu, 'CSM menu to
    detailed')
    Turn off CSM-1 (Annoying bleeps)
    Turn on CSM-8 (Grid display)
    CSM-24 (Self timer) set to 2secs until your IR remote arrives. ;-)
    Mode to RAW+B.

    Start shooting.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Owamanga, Mar 10, 2005
    #7
  8. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    Sweet! Man, I can't wait! I have gone through 5 cameras in the past 18 months,
    starting with a little Fuji 2MP, then moving up through stuff to my current
    C8080. So I figured it was time to take the last leap to SLR.

    I'll follow your advice immediately upon its arrival~!!!

    Tim
    ___________________

    Here's what you need to do when you get it:

    Set the clock\date.
    Turn on the extended custom menu. (Spanner menu, 'CSM menu to
    detailed')
    Turn off CSM-1 (Annoying bleeps)
    Turn on CSM-8 (Grid display)
    CSM-24 (Self timer) set to 2secs until your IR remote arrives. ;-)
    Mode to RAW+B.

    Start shooting.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Destin_FL, Mar 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Destin_FL

    Guest

    >Nobody has said this (probably because it's obvious)
    >but you *must* use a CPL rather than a PL if you want to
    >avoid problems with the AF and more importantly, metering.


    True, but this is dependent on the camera. Many cameras do not use
    systems that are affected by linear polarisation. Usually your camera
    manual will tell you if your camera needs a circular. Linears are much
    cheaper..
    , Mar 11, 2005
    #9
  10. Destin_FL

    Sheldon Guest

    "Destin_FL" <> wrote in message
    news:Ay2Yd.26199$Sn6.12821@lakeread03...
    > Sweet! Man, I can't wait! I have gone through 5 cameras in the past 18
    > months,
    > starting with a little Fuji 2MP, then moving up through stuff to my
    > current
    > C8080. So I figured it was time to take the last leap to SLR.
    >
    > I'll follow your advice immediately upon its arrival~!!!
    >
    > Tim
    > ___________________


    Nikon makes a filter kit, which ain't cheap, that has (I think) a clear
    protective filter, a polarizing filter and a neutral density filter. Also,
    most DSLR's tend to expose on the dark side. This is so the highlights
    don't wash out, leaving many new owners disappointed with images. There are
    lots of Web sites with lots of tips on how to setup your new D70, and how to
    "process" images you get from your new camera using software. You can also
    download tonal "curves" directly into the camera, which is a pretty cool way
    of modifying your images as you take them.

    I just got a D70. It's extremely full featured and you should have a lot of
    fun with it. While you are waiting I'm pretty sure you can download the
    manual in PDF format at the Nikon site. Also, Thom Hogan has a book in CD
    format called "The Complete Guide to the Nikon D70" which is an excellent
    reference. www.bythom.com

    I'm sure we'll see you around here when you get it.
    Sheldon, Mar 11, 2005
    #10
  11. "5 cameras in the past 18 months"

    then another 5 in 18 months. :) i see a used hubble space telescope
    somewhere in your future...
    googlegroups2sucks, Mar 11, 2005
    #11
  12. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    I know.... there's nothing worse than getting bitten by this frappin' camera
    bug!

    T


    then another 5 in 18 months. :) i see a used hubble space telescope
    somewhere in your future...
    Destin_FL, Mar 11, 2005
    #12
  13. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    Aggghhhhhhh.... I checked FEDEX tracking a second ago..... wasn't scheduled for
    delivery until Monday; it's already on the truck for delivery today!!!!!!
    YIPPEEE!!!!!

    Tim



    "Destin_FL" <> wrote in message
    news:gShYd.26564$Sn6.13761@lakeread03...
    I know.... there's nothing worse than getting bitten by this frappin' camera
    bug!

    T


    then another 5 in 18 months. :) i see a used hubble space telescope
    somewhere in your future...
    Destin_FL, Mar 11, 2005
    #13
  14. Destin_FL

    Owamanga Guest

    On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:14:19 -0600, "Destin_FL" <>
    wrote:

    >Aggghhhhhhh.... I checked FEDEX tracking a second ago..... wasn't scheduled for
    >delivery until Monday; it's already on the truck for delivery today!!!!!!
    >YIPPEEE!!!!!
    >
    >Tim


    Don't get your hopes up. Sod's law says it won't make it until Monday.

    Sod's law also dictates that some kind of amazing photo opportunity
    will arise during this weekend, because sods law is like that and is
    all powerful.

    In my experience, weekends have some sort of magnetic repulsion to
    Friday deliveries.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Owamanga, Mar 11, 2005
    #14
  15. Destin_FL

    Alan Browne Guest

    Alan Browne, Mar 11, 2005
    #15
  16. Destin_FL

    Owamanga Guest

    On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:54:42 -0500, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >Owamanga wrote:
    >
    >> A cheap UV can introduce flair

    >
    >I wish! "flare"


    You *don't* use Gay filters?

    <g>

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Owamanga, Mar 11, 2005
    #16
  17. Destin_FL

    Destin_FL Guest

    Let's hope sod is taking a break to enjoy a long island tea or something....

    Oh wait is that a truck I hear???........... oh crap..... not yet.......




    ______

    Don't get your hopes up. Sod's law says it won't make it until Monday.

    Sod's law also dictates that some kind of amazing photo opportunity
    will arise during this weekend, because sods law is like that and is
    all powerful.

    In my experience, weekends have some sort of magnetic repulsion to
    Friday deliveries.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Destin_FL, Mar 11, 2005
    #17
  18. Destin_FL

    Guest

    wrote:
    >>Nobody has said this (probably because it's obvious)
    >>but you *must* use a CPL rather than a PL if you want to
    >>avoid problems with the AF and more importantly, metering.


    > True, but this is dependent on the camera. Many cameras do not use
    > systems that are affected by linear polarisation.


    This is rec.photo.digital. Digital SLRs definitely do, for the
    focussing and the anti-aliasing filter.

    Andrew.
    , Mar 11, 2005
    #18
  19. Destin_FL

    Patrick Boch Guest

    A gay filter is pink.
    "Owamanga" <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:54:42 -0500, Alan Browne
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Owamanga wrote:
    >>
    >>> A cheap UV can introduce flair

    >>
    >>I wish! "flare"

    >
    > You *don't* use Gay filters?
    >
    > <g>
    >
    > --
    > Owamanga!
    > http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Patrick Boch, Mar 17, 2005
    #19
  20. Destin_FL

    Patrick Boch Guest

    I'd never pick up my D-70 without a UV....Not sure what the price is
    now..But I carry a 4 piece Nikon filter set....You not only...need the
    CPL/but ND as well......At least ND-4...... Filters..many feel are not
    needed..I guess its..."I can do all that in PS." Simply not true.... I
    also...carry...28 Square filters-use a 52MM adapter on my 5700....You can
    make a rather drab shoot....Into...a sure sell....The Rebel is nice...But
    for me..the D-70...Does what I ask...I'd rather wait...at least a year
    before I consider a new buy...When they pump up the MP....In that
    Olympus....I'll go for it...Its a great landscape camera...
    "Destin_FL" <> wrote in message
    news:Jv_Xd.26189$Sn6.13636@lakeread03...
    > Hey all,
    > OK, I ordered the D70, supposed to be here Monday. I spent 4 days buried
    > in
    > research torn between the new Rebel and the D70; ended up with D70. Wish
    > the
    > new Rebel was already in stores to touch it, but couldn't wait.
    >
    > Anyway, here's the question: What do you all, who are vastly more
    > knowledgeable
    > and experienced than myself think about having one of the UV filters on
    > the
    > front of the lens, and just leaving it on there. I have always had one on
    > all
    > of my cameras, including my C8080 now. I figure much cheaper to replace
    > that
    > than lens repair or replacement...
    > But in the case of the D70 and its leap in performance, do the filters
    > have a
    > downside? ALSO does the quality of that little piece of glass matter
    > much?
    >
    > Secondly, do you guys/gals have an opinion about using circular
    > polarizers? Do
    > they work? Does the quality there matter a whole lot?
    >
    > Thanks a ton!
    >
    > Tim
    >
    >
    Patrick Boch, Mar 17, 2005
    #20
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