Using EOS lenses with Digital Rebel

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ron Correia, Dec 20, 2003.

  1. Ron Correia

    Ron Correia Guest

    I'm considering the purchase of the Canon Digital Rebel. The camara will be
    used for two primary purposes:

    1) "Traditional" photography - landscapes, portraits, etc.
    2) Digital Astrophotography attached to either a 10" or 8"
    Schmidt-Cassegrain.

    I currently have a Canon EOS 1N with a very good compliment of lenses. One
    of the reasons I liked the Digital Rebel is the ability to use my existing
    lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do this.
    According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital camera
    results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According to
    him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.

    Has anyone experienced this? Are folks using their existing EOS lenses with
    Canon SLR cameras such as the Rebel without compromising the results? I'd
    prefer to hear from first-hand experience rather than relying on a salesman
    that also sells lenses.

    Thanks in advance. Any advice would be appreciated.

    -- Ron
    Ron Correia, Dec 20, 2003
    #1
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  2. Ron Correia

    Don Coon Guest

    "Ron Correia" <> wrote in message
    news:n%%Eb.25970$F22.22585@lakeread02...
    > I'm considering the purchase of the Canon Digital Rebel. The camara will

    be
    > used for two primary purposes:
    >
    > 1) "Traditional" photography - landscapes, portraits, etc.
    > 2) Digital Astrophotography attached to either a 10" or 8"
    > Schmidt-Cassegrain.
    >
    > I currently have a Canon EOS 1N with a very good compliment of lenses.

    One
    > of the reasons I liked the Digital Rebel is the ability to use my existing
    > lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    > dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do

    this.
    > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital

    camera
    > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According

    to
    > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.
    >
    > Has anyone experienced this? Are folks using their existing EOS lenses

    with
    > Canon SLR cameras such as the Rebel without compromising the results? I'd
    > prefer to hear from first-hand experience rather than relying on a

    salesman
    > that also sells lenses.
    >
    > Thanks in advance. Any advice would be appreciated.
    >


    I've heard exactly the opposite. The center of a lens is sharper than the
    edges. Lens tests typically show a softening toward the edges. Since a
    10D/D30/D60/300D uses only the center 45%* of the a full 35mm frame, I'd
    expect better performance.




    * 373 sq mm / 852 sq mm
    Don Coon, Dec 20, 2003
    #2
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  3. Ron Correia

    RacerX Guest

    I think he needs to try a test because ive found with mine that the
    traditional lenses work just fine sometimes even better.
    RacerX, Dec 20, 2003
    #3
  4. Ron Correia

    cc Guest

    I wasn't aware that there are any lenses that are made specifically for
    digital SLRs. If this really was a "reputable" dealer, are you sure you
    understood him correctly?

    Ron Correia wrote:
    > I'm considering the purchase of the Canon Digital Rebel. The camara will be
    > used for two primary purposes:
    >
    > 1) "Traditional" photography - landscapes, portraits, etc.
    > 2) Digital Astrophotography attached to either a 10" or 8"
    > Schmidt-Cassegrain.
    >
    > I currently have a Canon EOS 1N with a very good compliment of lenses. One
    > of the reasons I liked the Digital Rebel is the ability to use my existing
    > lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    > dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do this.
    > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital camera
    > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According to
    > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.
    >
    > Has anyone experienced this? Are folks using their existing EOS lenses with
    > Canon SLR cameras such as the Rebel without compromising the results? I'd
    > prefer to hear from first-hand experience rather than relying on a salesman
    > that also sells lenses.
    >
    > Thanks in advance. Any advice would be appreciated.
    >
    > -- Ron
    >
    >
    >
    cc, Dec 20, 2003
    #4
  5. Ron Correia

    Mark B. Guest

    You need to find a different dealer. My Canon EF lenses work fine on my D30
    and 10D.

    Mark


    "Ron Correia" <> wrote in message
    news:n%%Eb.25970$F22.22585@lakeread02...
    > I'm considering the purchase of the Canon Digital Rebel. The camara will

    be
    > used for two primary purposes:
    >
    > 1) "Traditional" photography - landscapes, portraits, etc.
    > 2) Digital Astrophotography attached to either a 10" or 8"
    > Schmidt-Cassegrain.
    >
    > I currently have a Canon EOS 1N with a very good compliment of lenses.

    One
    > of the reasons I liked the Digital Rebel is the ability to use my existing
    > lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    > dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do

    this.
    > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital

    camera
    > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According

    to
    > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.
    >
    > Has anyone experienced this? Are folks using their existing EOS lenses

    with
    > Canon SLR cameras such as the Rebel without compromising the results? I'd
    > prefer to hear from first-hand experience rather than relying on a

    salesman
    > that also sells lenses.
    >
    > Thanks in advance. Any advice would be appreciated.
    >
    > -- Ron
    >
    >
    >
    Mark B., Dec 20, 2003
    #5
  6. Ron Correia

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Ron Correia wrote:


    > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital camera
    > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According to
    > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.


    The edges of the picture aren't out of focus.. They just aren't there :)

    A traditional 35mm SLR lens casts an image that fills a 35mm film plane. Since
    the Digital Rebel's sensor is smaller than a full frame of 35mm film, a
    portion of the focused image created by the traditional 35mm camera lens lens
    will fall outside the sensor's area. In other words, the focused image cast
    by the lens is cropped.

    As a result of the cropping, the field of view is reduced. To determine this
    crop factor, a multiplier of 1.6 is used. For example, a 100mm lens on the
    Rebel will provide the same field of view as a 160mm lens on a 35mm film
    camera.

    This is bad if you're in to shooting wide angle.. If your widest lens is 16mm,
    then the best it can do on the rebel is provide the same field of view of a
    25mm lens. You'd need a 10mm lens to get back what you've lost.

    Other than this 'crop effect', focus and all the other 'camera' stuff remains
    the same. The 300D takes very good pictures.
    Jim Townsend, Dec 20, 2003
    #6
  7. Ron Correia

    dslr Guest

    RacerX wrote:
    >
    > I think he needs to try a test because ive found with mine that the
    > traditional lenses work just fine sometimes even better.


    I think he need to try a training course in basic optics - if the light
    doesn't hit a digital sensor at 90 degrees near the edge, it's going to
    be even worse on a larger film frame ;-)

    However, his statement may be based on a half-remembered titbit - if the
    incidence angle is too great, then the amount of light that penetrates
    the sensor can be reduced. However, all that would produce is a similar
    effect to vignetting (light fall-off at the edges), and not any increase
    in image softness.

    It could be that he has no concept of the need for good post-processing
    - in all the previous D-SLRs Canon made the decision (rightly IMO) to
    leave most of the final image sharpening to the photographer, not the
    design programmer. Images straight out of the camera can appear soft,
    just needing a suitable degree of sharpening. I think that the 300D has
    got more in-camera sharpening designed in than the D30/D60/10D had/ave,
    but still not to the degree of many P&S digicams.

    It could also be that he is short against his L-lens sales targets ;-)

    --
    regards,
    dslr
    dslr, Dec 20, 2003
    #7
  8. Ron Correia

    Steve m... Guest

    I uploaded two low resolution xmas tree pictures to check out. I used the
    EF 75-300 lens on my DRebel as an example. The other pictures on the first
    two pages were taken with the standard Rebel lens. Just some pictures of
    us getting our xmas tree. And some food pictures (close ups) taken at my
    sisters xmas party.

    www.msnusers.com/stevespictures
    They are on page 3.

    Steve m...

    "Ron Correia" <> wrote in message
    news:n%%Eb.25970$F22.22585@lakeread02...
    > I'm considering the purchase of the Canon Digital Rebel. The camara will

    be
    > used for two primary purposes:
    >
    > 1) "Traditional" photography - landscapes, portraits, etc.
    > 2) Digital Astrophotography attached to either a 10" or 8"
    > Schmidt-Cassegrain.
    >
    > I currently have a Canon EOS 1N with a very good compliment of lenses.

    One
    > of the reasons I liked the Digital Rebel is the ability to use my existing
    > lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    > dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do

    this.
    > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital

    camera
    > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According

    to
    > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.
    >
    > Has anyone experienced this? Are folks using their existing EOS lenses

    with
    > Canon SLR cameras such as the Rebel without compromising the results? I'd
    > prefer to hear from first-hand experience rather than relying on a

    salesman
    > that also sells lenses.
    >
    > Thanks in advance. Any advice would be appreciated.
    >
    > -- Ron
    >
    >
    >
    Steve m..., Dec 20, 2003
    #8
  9. > > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital
    camera
    > > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture.

    According to
    > > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.

    >
    > The edges of the picture aren't out of focus.. They just aren't there :)


    <snip unrelated material>

    This has nothing to do with what the poster was claiming.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
    Phil, Squid-in-Training, Dec 20, 2003
    #9
  10. "cc" <> wrote in message news:...
    > I wasn't aware that there are any lenses that are made specifically for
    > digital SLRs. If this really was a "reputable" dealer, are you sure you


    There are. The kit lens for the Digital Rebel is digital-only, because it
    will hit the mirror in a film SLR.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
    Phil, Squid-in-Training, Dec 20, 2003
    #10
  11. > lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    > dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do

    this.

    I believe what the dealer was referring to was the thickness of the CCD and
    possible diffraction stuff going on in there. For pretty much everyone,
    this isn't a concern. And this is an issue that can't be rectified with a
    digital-specific lens.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
    Phil, Squid-in-Training, Dec 20, 2003
    #11
  12. Ron Correia

    Flycaster Guest

    "Ron Correia" <> wrote in message
    news:n%%Eb.25970$F22.22585@lakeread02...
    > I'm considering the purchase of the Canon Digital Rebel. The camara will

    be
    > used for two primary purposes:
    >
    > 1) "Traditional" photography - landscapes, portraits, etc.
    > 2) Digital Astrophotography attached to either a 10" or 8"
    > Schmidt-Cassegrain.
    >
    > I currently have a Canon EOS 1N with a very good compliment of lenses.

    One
    > of the reasons I liked the Digital Rebel is the ability to use my existing
    > lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    > dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do

    this.
    > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital

    camera
    > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According

    to
    > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.
    >
    > Has anyone experienced this? Are folks using their existing EOS lenses

    with
    > Canon SLR cameras such as the Rebel without compromising the results? I'd
    > prefer to hear from first-hand experience rather than relying on a

    salesman
    > that also sells lenses.


    Nope, he's wrong, and he didn't get "this right from Canon"; take a look at
    Canon's website and you'll see what I mean. There *is* the issue of the
    effective lens multiplier, but as for focal plane and focus problems...no.

    Just out of curiosity, what kind of special "digital" lens does he want to
    sell you? Give him a jingle and ask hin why Canon doesn't make any. Should
    be good for a few yucks.




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    Flycaster, Dec 20, 2003
    #12
  13. Ron Correia

    Don Coon Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <> wrote in message
    news:%S2Fb.104142$...
    >
    > "cc" <> wrote in message news:...
    > > I wasn't aware that there are any lenses that are made specifically for
    > > digital SLRs. If this really was a "reputable" dealer, are you sure you

    >
    > There are. The kit lens for the Digital Rebel is digital-only, because it
    > will hit the mirror in a film SLR.
    >
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
    >


    While true that it will currently only work on the DRebel, that doesn't make
    it "digital-only". It makes it 300D only. In fact, a group of
    adventuresome (some would say "crazy") South Koreans have hacked the lens to
    allow it to be used on a 10D meaning it could be used on an EOS film camera.
    By hacked, I mean literally --- they hacked off enough of the camera end of
    the lens to allow it to fit the 10D.

    Also, there are at least two companies claiming to make lenses especially
    designed for digicams. Tamron has a line of "DI" lenses and someone else has
    a "DG" series. But that's most assuredly nothing but a marketing gimmick.
    Don Coon, Dec 20, 2003
    #13
  14. Ron Correia

    Flycaster Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <> wrote in message
    news:%S2Fb.104142$...
    >
    > "cc" <> wrote in message news:...
    > > I wasn't aware that there are any lenses that are made specifically for
    > > digital SLRs. If this really was a "reputable" dealer, are you sure you

    >
    > There are. The kit lens for the Digital Rebel is digital-only, because it
    > will hit the mirror in a film SLR.


    No. This new lens is *not* a "digital-only" lens, rather it is a "Rebel
    only" lens. It won't work properly on *any* other Canon camera.

    This lens is designed to do one thing: save money. From what I've heard and
    read, this lens is cheap plastic junk with the marginal performance typical
    of a very low end, Canon kit zoom lens. They know no one else will want it
    for any other camera [digital or not],so they just cut corners to make the
    Rebel kit price-attractive. It's nothing they haven't done before.




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    Flycaster, Dec 20, 2003
    #14
  15. Ron Correia

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

    >> > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital

    > camera
    >> > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture.

    > According to
    >> > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    >> > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    >> > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.

    >>
    >> The edges of the picture aren't out of focus.. They just aren't there :)

    >
    > <snip unrelated material>
    >
    > This has nothing to do with what the poster was claiming.
    >


    Yea I realized that after I replied.. Out of focus edges is a brand new
    'problem' for the 10D.

    This one is so far off the wall I didn't quite understand it at first. :)
    Jim Townsend, Dec 20, 2003
    #15
  16. On 2003-12-20, cc <> wrote:
    > I wasn't aware that there are any lenses that are made specifically for
    > digital SLRs. If this really was a "reputable" dealer, are you sure you
    > understood him correctly?


    The EF-S lens is for use only on the Canon 300D (drebel) for now.
    All other Canon lenses are film lenses.
    Povl H. Pedersen, Dec 20, 2003
    #16
  17. Ron Correia wrote:

    > I'm considering the purchase of the Canon Digital Rebel. The camara will be
    > used for two primary purposes:
    >
    > 1) "Traditional" photography - landscapes, portraits, etc.
    > 2) Digital Astrophotography attached to either a 10" or 8"
    > Schmidt-Cassegrain.
    >
    > I currently have a Canon EOS 1N with a very good compliment of lenses. One
    > of the reasons I liked the Digital Rebel is the ability to use my existing
    > lenses with the Digital SLR. I was recently told by a reputable camera
    > dealer, however, that picture quality is somewhat diminished if you do this.
    > According to this dealer, using traditional film lenses on a digital camera
    > results in out-of-focus images along the edges of the picture. According to
    > him (and he claims to have gotten this right from Canon), light in a
    > traditional lens does not hit the CCD or CMOS sensors at a right angle,
    > causing the out-of-focus problem in the digital camera.
    >
    > Has anyone experienced this? Are folks using their existing EOS lenses with
    > Canon SLR cameras such as the Rebel without compromising the results? I'd
    > prefer to hear from first-hand experience rather than relying on a salesman
    > that also sells lenses.
    >
    > Thanks in advance. Any advice would be appreciated.
    >
    > -- Ron
    >


    Ron:
    First, I've never seen this problem on the 10D or D60, nor have I
    ever heard of it. Second, it doesn't make sense from a physics/optics
    view, as others have pointed out.

    You may want to subscribe to the Yahoo digital astro group:
    . It is very active with many very
    experienced and helpful people. Quite a number are having
    good success with the 300D. There may be some issues (I haven't
    followed closely) with the 300 versus the 10D. I think it has to
    do with repeat exposures. Astrophotography with uncooled digital
    cameras must be done by adding together multiple short exposures
    (up to several minutes each). The remote for the 10D allows you
    to program up to 99 exposures in sequence. This is a very nice
    feature, especially if you have an autoguider (set it up, and
    let it go for an hour or so while you do other things, like stay
    in a warm house). If the d-rebel can't do this, you might
    seriously consider a 10D instead.

    The canon sensor is great for astrophotos. Here are some examples
    from my web site taken in light polluted Denver (you can't do this with
    film):

    http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.astrophoto-1

    Here is my analysis of noise and exposure time foe optimizing
    astrophotos (it should also apply to the d-rebel):

    http://clarkvision.com/astro/canon-10d-signal-to-noise

    If you buy any of the canon telephoto lenses, especially the
    "L" prime lenses, they are great for astrophotos. I bought the
    500 mm f/4 for astrophotography and found what a great wildlife
    lens it is! (You can go to my gallery home page and check some
    of the animal pages, especially birds to see that.)

    Roger Clark
    Photos, digital info at:
    http://clarkvision.com
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 21, 2003
    #17
  18. Ron Correia

    dslr Guest

    Don Coon wrote:
    >
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <> wrote in message


    > >
    > > There are. The kit lens for the Digital Rebel is digital-only, because it
    > > will hit the mirror in a film SLR.


    > While true that it will currently only work on the DRebel, that doesn't make
    > it "digital-only". It makes it 300D only. In fact, a group of
    > adventuresome (some would say "crazy") South Koreans have hacked the lens to
    > allow it to be used on a 10D meaning it could be used on an EOS film camera.
    > By hacked, I mean literally --- they hacked off enough of the camera end of
    > the lens to allow it to fit the 10D.


    The first question that springs to mind is, why?

    > Also, there are at least two companies claiming to make lenses especially
    > designed for digicams. Tamron has a line of "DI" lenses and someone else has
    > a "DG" series. But that's most assuredly nothing but a marketing gimmick.


    DG is Sigma - and you're probably right about the gimmick. Certainly the
    Sigma one is not designed to reduce the image circle to suit
    cropped-35mm size sensors, because the new 12-24 is being marketed as
    suitable for both digital and film.

    --
    regards,
    dslr
    dslr, Dec 21, 2003
    #18
  19. Ron Correia

    Don Coon Guest

    "dslr" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Don Coon wrote:
    > >
    > > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <> wrote in message

    >
    > > >
    > > > There are. The kit lens for the Digital Rebel is digital-only,

    because it
    > > > will hit the mirror in a film SLR.

    >
    > > While true that it will currently only work on the DRebel, that doesn't

    make
    > > it "digital-only". It makes it 300D only. In fact, a group of
    > > adventuresome (some would say "crazy") South Koreans have hacked the

    lens to
    > > allow it to be used on a 10D meaning it could be used on an EOS film

    camera.
    > > By hacked, I mean literally --- they hacked off enough of the camera end

    of
    > > the lens to allow it to fit the 10D.

    >
    > The first question that springs to mind is, why?


    Probably because "it's there" --- a challenge. It was really humorous,
    though : )

    >
    > > Also, there are at least two companies claiming to make lenses

    especially
    > > designed for digicams. Tamron has a line of "DI" lenses and someone else

    has
    > > a "DG" series. But that's most assuredly nothing but a marketing

    gimmick.
    >
    > DG is Sigma - and you're probably right about the gimmick. Certainly the
    > Sigma one is not designed to reduce the image circle to suit
    > cropped-35mm size sensors, because the new 12-24 is being marketed as
    > suitable for both digital and film.
    >
    > --
    > regards,
    > dslr
    Don Coon, Dec 21, 2003
    #19
  20. Ron Correia

    dslr Guest

    Don Coon wrote:
    >
    > "dslr" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Don Coon wrote:
    > > >
    > > > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <> wrote in message

    > >
    > > > There are. The kit lens for the Digital Rebel is digital-only,
    > > > because it will hit the mirror in a film SLR.

    > >
    > > While true that it will currently only work on the DRebel, that doesn't
    > > make it "digital-only". It makes it 300D only. In fact, a group of
    > > > adventuresome (some would say "crazy") South Koreans have hacked the

    > > lens to allow it to be used on a 10D meaning it could be used on an EOS film
    > > camera.
    > > By hacked, I mean literally --- they hacked off enough of the camera end
    > > of the lens to allow it to fit the 10D.
    > >
    > > The first question that springs to mind is, why?

    >
    > Probably because "it's there" --- a challenge. It was really humorous,
    > though : )


    Hehe, have they done a website, by any chance?

    --
    regards,
    dslr
    dslr, Dec 21, 2003
    #20
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