Used 20D vs D70s

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. I have now hand-tested (how does it feel?) D70s, D50 and 400D. 400D
    feels too small for my hands, and the kit zoom is awful. D70s is my
    favourite, and will see if it gets discounted as sort of stock
    clearance.

    But then I thought, how does it compare to a 2nd hand 20D? In
    particular, what is the size like?

    I am not scared of 2nd hand

    Total price will not differ that much.

    /Martin
    =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=, Oct 25, 2006
    #1
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  2. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    tomm42 Guest

    On Oct 25, 6:47 am, "Martin Sørensen" <>
    wrote:
    > I have now hand-tested (how does it feel?) D70s, D50 and 400D. 400D
    > feels too small for my hands, and the kit zoom is awful. D70s is my
    > favourite, and will see if it gets discounted as sort of stock
    > clearance.
    >
    > But then I thought, how does it compare to a 2nd hand 20D? In
    > particular, what is the size like?
    >
    > I am not scared of 2nd hand
    >
    > Total price will not differ that much.
    >
    > /Martin


    Check to see how the camera operates there seem to be Canon people and
    Nikon people addressing ergonomics. The big problem with the D70 is the
    viewfinder, the 20D would be better. What you have to watch out for in
    a used digital is there are a lot of pros using the medium range
    cameras. I'd try to check how many frames have gone through the camera,
    may be as simple as taking a picture and checking the number on the
    card, some cameras you can use and EXIF extractor to get the info. It
    is good to see the camera, to see if it is in good condition. Hopefully
    you can find one that is little used by someone with a megapixel
    fetish.

    good luck
    Tom
    tomm42, Oct 25, 2006
    #2
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  3. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    ink Guest

    "tomm42" <> wrote in message
    news:...


    >Nikon people addressing ergonomics. The big problem with the D70 is the
    >viewfinder, the 20D would be better. What you have to watch out for in


    Everything you said was true, Tom - except calling the viewfinder of the D70
    a "big" problem. It's not. It's a viewfinder, it works just fine. Granted,
    it's smaller and less bright than e.g., the D200's, but I wear glasses and I
    have no problems with it whatsoever.

    Cheers,
    ink
    ink, Oct 25, 2006
    #3
  4. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:00:49 +0200, in rec.photo.digital "ink"
    <> wrote:
    >Everything you said was true, Tom - except calling the viewfinder of the D70
    >a "big" problem. It's not. It's a viewfinder, it works just fine. Granted,
    >it's smaller and less bright than e.g., the D200's, but I wear glasses and I
    >have no problems with it whatsoever.


    Having both a D70 and D200, I miss the additional info provided in the
    D200's vf when using the D70.
    -
    Ed Ruf ()
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
    Ed Ruf, Oct 25, 2006
    #4
  5. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    tomm42 Guest

    On Oct 25, 11:00 am, "ink" <> wrote:
    > "tomm42" <> wrote in messagenews:...
    >
    > >Nikon people addressing ergonomics. The big problem with the D70 is the
    > >viewfinder, the 20D would be better. What you have to watch out for inEverything you said was true, Tom - except calling the viewfinder of the D70

    > a "big" problem. It's not. It's a viewfinder, it works just fine. Granted,
    > it's smaller and less bright than e.g., the D200's, but I wear glasses and I
    > have no problems with it whatsoever.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > ink


    I use both cameras and shoot a lot of 1:1 macro, to me the dimness of
    the D70 find is a big problem. I do wear glasses, the D200 has a much
    brighter and easier to focus finder. The D70 is a popular camera so
    there are probably more folks that it doesn't bother than ones it does,
    but I just thought I would let the OP knows that the viewfinder could
    be a question. The D200 viewfinder is better than the 20D's too, but
    not by as much.

    Tom
    tomm42, Oct 25, 2006
    #5
  6. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    Bill Crocker Guest

    "Martin Sørensen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I have now hand-tested (how does it feel?) D70s, D50 and 400D. 400D
    > feels too small for my hands, and the kit zoom is awful. D70s is my
    > favourite, and will see if it gets discounted as sort of stock
    > clearance.
    >
    > But then I thought, how does it compare to a 2nd hand 20D? In
    > particular, what is the size like?
    >
    > I am not scared of 2nd hand
    >
    > Total price will not differ that much.
    >
    > /Martin
    >


    If you have big hands, go for the Nikon...it wins hands down!
    (no pun intended)

    Bill Crocker
    Bill Crocker, Oct 25, 2006
    #6
  7. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    frederick Guest

    tomm42 wrote:

    >
    > The big problem with the D70 is the
    > viewfinder, the 20D would be better.
    >


    Except it isn't. You keep posting this claim, and you really need to go
    down to your local camera shop and compare them. Even the 30d isn't
    better. The d80/200 are better - so are some pentaxes. The 5d is much
    better, for obvious reasons.
    frederick, Oct 25, 2006
    #7
  8. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    Colin_D Guest

    Martin Sørensen wrote:
    > I have now hand-tested (how does it feel?) D70s, D50 and 400D. 400D
    > feels too small for my hands, and the kit zoom is awful. D70s is my
    > favourite, and will see if it gets discounted as sort of stock
    > clearance.
    >
    > But then I thought, how does it compare to a 2nd hand 20D? In
    > particular, what is the size like?
    >
    > I am not scared of 2nd hand
    >
    > Total price will not differ that much.
    >
    > /Martin
    >

    There seems to be too much emphasis in this thread on the physical
    handling and VF characteristics between the two cameras. My choice
    would be on results, and damn the handling. You can get used to the
    ergonomics of almost any camera, but you can't get used to inferior
    results from the camera. IMO the Canons with 8.2 or more MP are
    inherently better than a 6 MP camera; and the Canon noise at high ISO is
    less than the D70. The one drawback is the Canon kit lens, which is
    only adequate, but lenses can be replaced.

    Colin D.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    Colin_D, Oct 26, 2006
    #8
  9. Colin_D skrev:
    > >

    > There seems to be too much emphasis in this thread on the physical
    > handling and VF characteristics between the two cameras. My choice
    > would be on results, and damn the handling. You can get used to the
    > ergonomics of almost any camera, but you can't get used to inferior
    > results from the camera. IMO the Canons with 8.2 or more MP are
    > inherently better than a 6 MP camera; and the Canon noise at high ISO is
    > less than the D70. The one drawback is the Canon kit lens, which is
    > only adequate, but lenses can be replaced.
    >

    I disagree about the handling. I had an OM2 for some years, I never got
    to work with it the way I work(ed) with the FA that replaced it - and
    for me the results were better when using the camera was second nature.

    6 vs 8 MP? Sure, more is better, but 15% linear resolution is next to
    nothing. I read Ken Rockwell's review (and others), and the conclusion
    was that there were pro's and cons with both.

    About lenses: Yes, they can be replaced, but there is also budget...

    Thanks to you and others for input,

    Martin
    =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=, Oct 26, 2006
    #9
  10. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Martin Sørensen" <> writes:
    > I disagree about the handling. I had an OM2 for some years, I never got
    > to work with it the way I work(ed) with the FA that replaced it - and
    > for me the results were better when using the camera was second nature.


    I never felt right using an FA, and I had one for a while. I could
    never remember what mode it was in. The FE and FM were foolproof.
    The OM1 was very nice though I didn't use it enough to get used to the
    shutter speed control being on a lens ring. I never had an OM2 though
    I think I tried one out.
    Paul Rubin, Oct 26, 2006
    #10
  11. > There seems to be too much emphasis in this thread on the physical
    > handling and VF characteristics between the two cameras. My choice would
    > be on results, and damn the handling. You can get used to the ergonomics
    > of almost any camera, but you can't get used to inferior results from the
    > camera. IMO the Canons with 8.2 or more MP are inherently better than a 6
    > MP camera; and the Canon noise at high ISO is less than the D70. The one
    > drawback is the Canon kit lens, which is only adequate, but lenses can be
    > replaced.
    >
    > Colin D.


    I utterly disagree. _ALL_ modern DSLRs are capable of giving the results one
    need. All of them! A couple of megapixes more or less is utterly
    meaningless, once you have 6 you have all you need unless you are planning
    to have full-page pictures published in a magazine or something.

    Handling and ergonomy is crucial to getting the results you want, when you
    want them. If you are not comfortable with the camera, if you do not have
    easy access to the functions you need, you will not be able to use the
    camera to its maximum capability. And the viewfinder is the single most
    important aspect of DSLR usability I think.

    I do agree that Canon seem to have an edge in high ISO quality though. But
    it is only a matter of degree, the difference is not revolutionary.
    Ståle Sannerud, Oct 26, 2006
    #11
  12. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Ståle Sannerud" <> writes:
    > Handling and ergonomy is crucial to getting the results you want, when you
    > want them. If you are not comfortable with the camera, if you do not have
    > easy access to the functions you need, you will not be able to use the
    > camera to its maximum capability. And the viewfinder is the single most
    > important aspect of DSLR usability I think.


    Nah, the D70's viewfinder isn't great, but it's perfectly usable and
    much better than the typical P/S viewfinder. It's a masked-off 35mm
    viewfinder (D70 is built on the old N80 body, IIRC) so the view is
    smaller than what we're used to, but the magnification is the same, I
    think. The handling etc. matters more.
    Paul Rubin, Oct 26, 2006
    #12
  13. "Paul Rubin" <http://> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Ståle Sannerud" <> writes:
    >> Handling and ergonomy is crucial to getting the results you want, when
    >> you
    >> want them. If you are not comfortable with the camera, if you do not have
    >> easy access to the functions you need, you will not be able to use the
    >> camera to its maximum capability. And the viewfinder is the single most
    >> important aspect of DSLR usability I think.

    >
    > Nah, the D70's viewfinder isn't great, but it's perfectly usable and
    > much better than the typical P/S viewfinder. It's a masked-off 35mm
    > viewfinder (D70 is built on the old N80 body, IIRC) so the view is
    > smaller than what we're used to, but the magnification is the same, I
    > think. The handling etc. matters more.
    Ståle Sannerud, Oct 26, 2006
    #13
  14. "Paul Rubin" <http://> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Ståle Sannerud" <> writes:
    >> Handling and ergonomy is crucial to getting the results you want, when
    >> you
    >> want them. If you are not comfortable with the camera, if you do not have
    >> easy access to the functions you need, you will not be able to use the
    >> camera to its maximum capability. And the viewfinder is the single most
    >> important aspect of DSLR usability I think.

    >
    > Nah, the D70's viewfinder isn't great, but it's perfectly usable and
    > much better than the typical P/S viewfinder. It's a masked-off 35mm
    > viewfinder (D70 is built on the old N80 body, IIRC) so the view is
    > smaller than what we're used to, but the magnification is the same, I
    > think. The handling etc. matters more.


    Sodding Outlook Express... let's try one more time:

    The D70 viewfinder isn't too bad in absolute terms, and far superior to a
    p&s camera's peephole or (shock, horror) an EVF. But compared to a Real
    Camera (tm), it sucks to high heaven (I've looked through a friend's Nikon
    F-series' viewfinder. Ooooh baby...). I'd take a real prism over a
    pentamirror any day of the week. I'd not want to manual-focus unaided using
    a D70 - fortunately the focus confirmation still works with manual lenses on
    it, this helps some.

    I hear that Nikon pulled some rather neat tricks out of the hat lately and
    gave the D200 and D80 really good viewfinders on their crop sensors; welcome
    news indeed!
    Ståle Sannerud, Oct 26, 2006
    #14
  15. =?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_S=F8rensen?=

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Ståle Sannerud" <> writes:
    > The D70 viewfinder isn't too bad in absolute terms, and far superior
    > to a p&s camera's peephole or (shock, horror) an EVF. But compared
    > to a Real Camera (tm), it sucks to high heaven (I've looked through
    > a friend's Nikon F-series' viewfinder. Ooooh baby...). I'd take a
    > real prism over a pentamirror any day of the week. I'd not want to
    > manual-focus unaided using a D70 - fortunately the focus
    > confirmation still works with manual lenses on it, this helps some.


    I just pulled my ancient F3 off the shelf, and after cleaning the
    years of dust off it, I fired a few shots with it (with no film
    inside). I'd forgotten how good that camera feels to use, and yes,
    the viewfinder is great. But I think the main benefit of the good
    viewfinder is the ease of manual focusing. With an AF camera,
    especially a digital that's not costing you significant money every
    time you squeeze the shutter, just compose and shoot and bracket a
    lot.
    Paul Rubin, Nov 7, 2006
    #15
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