USB Dead

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by KB, Nov 7, 2007.

  1. KB

    KB Guest

    All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying that a
    surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer froze and the
    keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I was in the dark so
    I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
    I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back in
    action - except the usb sockets.
    I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium 4 -
    3.4g.
    Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
    Thanks in advance
    KB
     
    KB, Nov 7, 2007
    #1
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  2. KB

    meerkat Guest

    "KB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying that
    > a surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer froze and
    > the keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I was in the
    > dark so I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
    > I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back in
    > action - except the usb sockets.
    > I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium 4 -
    > 3.4g.
    > Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
    > Thanks in advance
    > KB

    If you`ve got a spare PCI slot on your Mboard, then
    fit a USB2-PCI card.
    That`ll give you some USB2 slots to work with.
    example here..
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/NISIS-external-internal-maximum-connections/dp/B000684LDS
     
    meerkat, Nov 7, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. KB

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2007-11-07, KB <> wrote:
    > All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying that a
    > surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer froze and the
    > keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I was in the dark so
    > I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
    > I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back in
    > action - except the usb sockets.
    > I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium 4 -
    > 3.4g.
    > Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
    > Thanks in advance
    > KB


    If the USB sockets are part of the motherboard, it sounds rather as though
    you'll be shopping for a new motherboard. The USB circuits may not be the
    only parts knocked out by the "surge".

    Where did the surge come from? Have any of the USB peripherals which were
    connected at the time shown signs of damage or malfunction?

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Nov 7, 2007
    #3
  4. KB

    KB Guest

    Thanks meerkat, that could the answer once and for all if I could get away
    with fitting more than one card to make up the original 6 slots (or more). I
    have 2 spaces. Would that be OK do you know??

    "meerkat" <> wrote in message
    news:GJpYi.12117$...
    >
    > "KB" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying
    >> that a surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer
    >> froze and the keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I
    >> was in the dark so I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
    >> I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back in
    >> action - except the usb sockets.
    >> I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium 4 -
    >> 3.4g.
    >> Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
    >> Thanks in advance
    >> KB

    > If you`ve got a spare PCI slot on your Mboard, then
    > fit a USB2-PCI card.
    > That`ll give you some USB2 slots to work with.
    > example here..
    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/NISIS-external-internal-maximum-connections/dp/B000684LDS
    >
    >
    >
     
    KB, Nov 7, 2007
    #4
  5. KB

    KB Guest

    Hi Whiskers
    The sockets are at in three pairs a long way apart on the m/bd.
    The surge may have come from a Topfield PVR which connects to the PC by USB
    for transferring files (mp3's, videos..). The connection failed some time
    ago for no apparent reason and at the time I tried a different lead and a
    laptop which also had the software. Neither worked so it was put on hold for
    the time being.
    I needed to use the facility again a couple of days ago so I plugged the
    lead into a socket on the PC and then went out the room to plug the other
    end into the Topfield. When I me back to the PC there was the message! I can
    only assume that was the cause.
    All else seems to work OK. In the meantime I found that according to the
    Device Manager under USB Controllers everything is fine and in working
    order. I also found some free tests on-line and they also found things OK
    but there is no response whatever I plug into any of the usb sockets. The
    printer & scanner etc all work with the laptop.
    KB

    "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2007-11-07, KB <> wrote:
    >> All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying
    >> that a
    >> surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer froze and
    >> the
    >> keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I was in the dark
    >> so
    >> I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
    >> I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back in
    >> action - except the usb sockets.
    >> I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium 4 -
    >> 3.4g.
    >> Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
    >> Thanks in advance
    >> KB

    >
    > If the USB sockets are part of the motherboard, it sounds rather as though
    > you'll be shopping for a new motherboard. The USB circuits may not be the
    > only parts knocked out by the "surge".
    >
    > Where did the surge come from? Have any of the USB peripherals which were
    > connected at the time shown signs of damage or malfunction?
    >
    > --
    > -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    > -- Whiskers
    > -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    KB, Nov 7, 2007
    #5
  6. KB

    Shel-hed Guest

    On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:59:02 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:

    >Hi Whiskers
    >The sockets are at in three pairs a long way apart on the m/bd.
    >The surge may have come from a Topfield PVR which connects to the PC by USB
    >for transferring files (mp3's, videos..).


    That sounds more like an overload than a surge. Check your manual and see what
    it says. There would be no use putting up an alert screen if it wasn't easily
    fixable.
    Once you get it fixed, you might want to try a powered usb hub.
     
    Shel-hed, Nov 7, 2007
    #6
  7. On 2007-11-07, KB <> wrote:
    > Thanks meerkat, that could the answer once and for all if I could get away
    > with fitting more than one card to make up the original 6 slots (or more). I
    > have 2 spaces. Would that be OK do you know??
    >

    If you get a PCI USB port, then you can get yourself a hub or two
    and chain them together and have as many out the other end as you want.

    --
    All I know is what the words know, and dead things, and that
    makes a handsome little sum, with a beginning and a middle and
    an end, as in the well-built phrase and the long sonata of the dead.
    -- Samuel Beckett
     
    Baba O'Reilly, Nov 7, 2007
    #7
  8. KB

    KB Guest

    Thanks Shel-hed
    I'm sure the word 'surge' was there in the message. It said 'Click this
    box...etc' but at the time that wasn't possible as the pointer (usb mouse)
    was frozen and the k/bd didn't work. So I also assumed at that stage that it
    would be repairable. I don't see anything in the manuals relating to this
    problem. I will read up about a 'powered usb hub' tomorrow - I'm not sure
    what it is (pardon my ignorance) or what advantage i would gain?!?
    KB
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Shel-hed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:59:02 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Hi Whiskers
    >>The sockets are at in three pairs a long way apart on the m/bd.
    >>The surge may have come from a Topfield PVR which connects to the PC by
    >>USB
    >>for transferring files (mp3's, videos..).

    >
    > That sounds more like an overload than a surge. Check your manual and see
    > what
    > it says. There would be no use putting up an alert screen if it wasn't
    > easily
    > fixable.
    > Once you get it fixed, you might want to try a powered usb hub.
    >
    >
    >
     
    KB, Nov 8, 2007
    #8
  9. KB

    pcbutts1 Guest

    Get the card and a USB hub.

    --

    Newsgroup Trolls. Read about mine here http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads
    The list grows. Leythos the stalker http://www.leythosthestalker.com, David
    H. Lipman, Max M Wachtell III aka What's in a Name?, Fitz,
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Meat Plow, F Kwatu F, George Orwell



    "KB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks meerkat, that could the answer once and for all if I could get away
    > with fitting more than one card to make up the original 6 slots (or more).
    > I have 2 spaces. Would that be OK do you know??
    >
    > "meerkat" <> wrote in message
    > news:GJpYi.12117$...
    >>
    >> "KB" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying
    >>> that a surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer
    >>> froze and the keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I
    >>> was in the dark so I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
    >>> I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back
    >>> in action - except the usb sockets.
    >>> I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium 4 -
    >>> 3.4g.
    >>> Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
    >>> Thanks in advance
    >>> KB

    >> If you`ve got a spare PCI slot on your Mboard, then
    >> fit a USB2-PCI card.
    >> That`ll give you some USB2 slots to work with.
    >> example here..
    >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/NISIS-external-internal-maximum-connections/dp/B000684LDS
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    pcbutts1, Nov 8, 2007
    #9
  10. KB

    KB Guest

    "Baba O'Reilly" <> wrote in message
    news:47325104$0$5295$...
    > On 2007-11-07, KB <> wrote:
    >> Thanks meerkat, that could the answer once and for all if I could get
    >> away
    >> with fitting more than one card to make up the original 6 slots (or
    >> more). I
    >> have 2 spaces. Would that be OK do you know??
    >>

    > If you get a PCI USB port, then you can get yourself a hub or two
    > and chain them together and have as many out the other end as you want.
    >
    > --
    > All I know is what the words know, and dead things, and that
    > makes a handsome little sum, with a beginning and a middle and
    > an end, as in the well-built phrase and the long sonata of the dead.
    > -- Samuel Beckett


    Thanks for the info, Baba O'Reilly, It sounds as though this could be the
    easy option.

    KB
     
    KB, Nov 8, 2007
    #10
  11. KB

    PeeCee Guest

    "KB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks Shel-hed
    > I'm sure the word 'surge' was there in the message. It said 'Click this
    > box...etc' but at the time that wasn't possible as the pointer (usb mouse)
    > was frozen and the k/bd didn't work. So I also assumed at that stage that
    > it would be repairable. I don't see anything in the manuals relating to
    > this problem. I will read up about a 'powered usb hub' tomorrow - I'm not
    > sure what it is (pardon my ignorance) or what advantage i would gain?!?
    > KB
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > "Shel-hed" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:59:02 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hi Whiskers
    >>>The sockets are at in three pairs a long way apart on the m/bd.
    >>>The surge may have come from a Topfield PVR which connects to the PC by
    >>>USB
    >>>for transferring files (mp3's, videos..).

    >>
    >> That sounds more like an overload than a surge. Check your manual and
    >> see what
    >> it says. There would be no use putting up an alert screen if it wasn't
    >> easily
    >> fixable.
    >> Once you get it fixed, you might want to try a powered usb hub.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >



    KB

    In theory each USB hub can have up to 128 devices connected to it but the
    total power draw is limited to 500ma (half an amp)

    By plugging in a powered (as in mains plug pack) USB hub, the power pack
    will allow each outlet to supply up to 500ma for each socket and just leave
    the USB socket it's plugged into to handle the data streams.

    Therefore by installing a two port USB PCI card and plugging in a 4 outlet
    powered USB hub into each one you end up with 8 USB outlets, 2 more than you
    had before.

    Do be aware some devices do not like being plugged into this sort of
    arrangement so a PCI card with many USB outlets built in is usually better.

    Best
    Paul.
     
    PeeCee, Nov 8, 2007
    #11
  12. KB

    Shel-hed Guest

    On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:21:40 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:

    >Thanks Shel-hed
    >I'm sure the word 'surge' was there in the message. It said 'Click this
    >box...etc' but at the time that wasn't possible as the pointer (usb mouse)
    >was frozen and the k/bd didn't work. So I also assumed at that stage that it
    >would be repairable. I don't see anything in the manuals relating to this
    >problem. I will read up about a 'powered usb hub' tomorrow - I'm not sure
    >what it is (pardon my ignorance) or what advantage i would gain?!?
    >KB


    The USB hub would supply the power and absorb any damage if your PVR unit is
    pharked.
     
    Shel-hed, Nov 8, 2007
    #12
  13. KB

    KB Guest

    Thanks All

    My next step is to get a 3 or 4 port PCI card and a 4 outlet powered USB
    hub. This gives 6 or 7 outlets AND the 'option'. It still doesn't fix the
    original damage but it seems I'll be better off!! TIme will tell if there is
    any other damage to the motherboard but so far there doesn't appear to be
    any. . . .

    KB
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "PeeCee" <> wrote in message
    news:fgtvkf$64o$...
    > "KB" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Thanks Shel-hed
    >> I'm sure the word 'surge' was there in the message. It said 'Click this
    >> box...etc' but at the time that wasn't possible as the pointer (usb
    >> mouse) was frozen and the k/bd didn't work. So I also assumed at that
    >> stage that it would be repairable. I don't see anything in the manuals
    >> relating to this problem. I will read up about a 'powered usb hub'
    >> tomorrow - I'm not sure what it is (pardon my ignorance) or what
    >> advantage i would gain?!?
    >> KB
    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >> "Shel-hed" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:59:02 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Hi Whiskers
    >>>>The sockets are at in three pairs a long way apart on the m/bd.
    >>>>The surge may have come from a Topfield PVR which connects to the PC by
    >>>>USB
    >>>>for transferring files (mp3's, videos..).
    >>>
    >>> That sounds more like an overload than a surge. Check your manual and
    >>> see what
    >>> it says. There would be no use putting up an alert screen if it wasn't
    >>> easily
    >>> fixable.
    >>> Once you get it fixed, you might want to try a powered usb hub.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > KB
    >
    > In theory each USB hub can have up to 128 devices connected to it but the
    > total power draw is limited to 500ma (half an amp)
    >
    > By plugging in a powered (as in mains plug pack) USB hub, the power pack
    > will allow each outlet to supply up to 500ma for each socket and just
    > leave the USB socket it's plugged into to handle the data streams.
    >
    > Therefore by installing a two port USB PCI card and plugging in a 4 outlet
    > powered USB hub into each one you end up with 8 USB outlets, 2 more than
    > you had before.
    >
    > Do be aware some devices do not like being plugged into this sort of
    > arrangement so a PCI card with many USB outlets built in is usually
    > better.
    >
    > Best
    > Paul.
     
    KB, Nov 8, 2007
    #13
  14. KB

    KB Guest

    Thanks, I'm on my way!
    KB

    "pcbutts1" <> wrote in message
    news:fgtm5a$5g1$...
    > Get the card and a USB hub.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Newsgroup Trolls. Read about mine here http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads
    > The list grows. Leythos the stalker http://www.leythosthestalker.com,
    > David H. Lipman, Max M Wachtell III aka What's in a Name?, Fitz,
    > Rhonda Lea Kirk, Meat Plow, F Kwatu F, George Orwell
    >
    >
    >
    > "KB" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Thanks meerkat, that could the answer once and for all if I could get
    >> away with fitting more than one card to make up the original 6 slots (or
    >> more). I have 2 spaces. Would that be OK do you know??
    >>
    >> "meerkat" <> wrote in message
    >> news:GJpYi.12117$...
    >>>
    >>> "KB" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying
    >>>> that a surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer
    >>>> froze and the keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I
    >>>> was in the dark so I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
    >>>> I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back
    >>>> in action - except the usb sockets.
    >>>> I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium
    >>>> 4 - 3.4g.
    >>>> Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
    >>>> Thanks in advance
    >>>> KB
    >>> If you`ve got a spare PCI slot on your Mboard, then
    >>> fit a USB2-PCI card.
    >>> That`ll give you some USB2 slots to work with.
    >>> example here..
    >>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/NISIS-external-internal-maximum-connections/dp/B000684LDS
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    KB, Nov 8, 2007
    #14
  15. KB

    w_tom Guest

    On Nov 8, 3:30 am, "KB" <> wrote:
    > My next step is to get a 3 or 4 port PCI card and a 4 outlet powered USB
    > hub. This gives 6 or 7 outlets AND the 'option'. It still doesn't fix the
    > originaldamagebut it seems I'll be better off!! TIme will tell if there is
    > any otherdamageto the motherboard but so far there doesn't appear to be
    > any. . . .


    First use of 'surge' is completely distorted here. There are two
    completley different words 'surge'. The error message of a USB power
    surge means the USB peripheral draws too much power. That 'surge'
    means no damage. USB ports can only provide so much power - and then
    safely cut off.

    A completely different 'surge' means appliance damage. The Topfield
    PVR is apparently powered on a different circuit breaker - different
    AC power circuit. Therefore a defect in the Topfield PVR could be
    pushing current into the USB interface. Damaged may be the circuit
    that monitors how much power is consumed. IOW the current monitoring
    circuit can no longer report or provide power (type A surge detector)
    because the Topfield PVR has internal hardware defects creating USB
    hardware destructive voltaged (Type B surge creator).

    Meanwhile, none of this would cause any harm to any other parts of
    the computer. To create other computer damage, the USB cable may
    spark (audible detected) when connected or disconnected.

    Of course, like so many other posts, this is only speculation since
    nothing definitive (especially numbers) has been provided. But most
    accurate is that the 'surge' that is discussed on the computer screen
    is not a destructive surge AND would not explain non-functional USB
    ports.
     
    w_tom, Nov 8, 2007
    #15
  16. KB

    Leythos Guest

    In article <>, w_tom1
    @usa.net says...
    > First use of 'surge' is completely distorted here. There are two
    > completley different words 'surge'. The error message of a USB power
    > surge means the USB peripheral draws too much power. That 'surge'
    > means no damage. USB ports can only provide so much power - and then
    > safely cut off.


    How do you explain the motherboards that have BAD USB ports where the
    foil is burned off the motherboard - USB Ports can be fried.

    --

    Leythos - (remove 999 to email me)

    Fight exposing kids to porn, complain about sites like PCBUTTS 1.COM
    that create filth and put it on the web for any kid to see: Just take a
    look at some of the FILTH he's created and put on his website:
    http://forums.speedguide.net/archive/index.php/t-223485.html all exposed
    to children (the link I've include does not directly display his filth).
    You can find the same information by googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and
    'exposed to kids'.
     
    Leythos, Nov 8, 2007
    #16
  17. KB

    KB Guest

    Thankyou for your further observations,

    There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact that
    all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
    nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to the
    ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a different
    part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went off
    together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
    electronic component?
    (As a novice I can only use logic so forgive me if I speak jibberish).
    If the current-monitoring circuit has been damaged wouldn't this show up
    somewhere? - in the device manager, perhaps?

    KB
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "w_tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Nov 8, 3:30 am, "KB" <> wrote:
    >> My next step is to get a 3 or 4 port PCI card and a 4 outlet powered USB
    >> hub. This gives 6 or 7 outlets AND the 'option'. It still doesn't fix the
    >> originaldamagebut it seems I'll be better off!! TIme will tell if there
    >> is
    >> any otherdamageto the motherboard but so far there doesn't appear to be
    >> any. . . .

    >
    > First use of 'surge' is completely distorted here. There are two
    > completley different words 'surge'. The error message of a USB power
    > surge means the USB peripheral draws too much power. That 'surge'
    > means no damage. USB ports can only provide so much power - and then
    > safely cut off.
    >
    > A completely different 'surge' means appliance damage. The Topfield
    > PVR is apparently powered on a different circuit breaker - different
    > AC power circuit. Therefore a defect in the Topfield PVR could be
    > pushing current into the USB interface. Damaged may be the circuit
    > that monitors how much power is consumed. IOW the current monitoring
    > circuit can no longer report or provide power (type A surge detector)
    > because the Topfield PVR has internal hardware defects creating USB
    > hardware destructive voltaged (Type B surge creator).
    >
    > Meanwhile, none of this would cause any harm to any other parts of
    > the computer. To create other computer damage, the USB cable may
    > spark (audible detected) when connected or disconnected.
    >
    > Of course, like so many other posts, this is only speculation since
    > nothing definitive (especially numbers) has been provided. But most
    > accurate is that the 'surge' that is discussed on the computer screen
    > is not a destructive surge AND would not explain non-functional USB
    > ports.
    >
     
    KB, Nov 8, 2007
    #17
  18. KB

    w_tom Guest

    On Nov 8, 5:34 pm, "KB" <> wrote:
    > There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact that
    > all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
    > nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to the
    > ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a different
    > part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went off
    > together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
    > electronic component?


    First define what originally existed. All six USB ports would be
    driven by one USB controller. Each port has two functions - 5 volt
    power and bidirectional data. Often the controller talks to each
    connector via a data interface and via a power monitor chip.

    Second, computer (Device Manager) can only talk to USB controller.
    Failures beyond a USB controller can only be detected if the USB
    controller sees them and has programming to detect them. But USB
    computer only sees basic functions - has few if any diagnostics to
    report interface failures.

    Third, learn if 5 volts even exists on those USB ports. A simplest
    test would be a device that operates at less than 100 ma such as an
    LED light attached to a USB connector. These are sometimes sold in
    Dollar Shops for, well, $1. Which ports even have that power? Power
    should be available even without any USB controller actions.

    Fourth, information may be available from USB diagnostics - system
    diagnostics only available from more responsible computer
    manufacturers. Another diagnostic source would be USB controller chip
    manufacturer. Device manager would not look at any of this. Device
    Manager only reports if software is talking to the USB controller -
    nothing more. If no diagnostics, then improvisation is necessary.

    Five, if no ports can even light the LED, then trace each five volt
    line to motherboard. Each five volt would have some interface to a
    power control chip AND to a 10 uf capacitor (the industry standard
    circuit) in each circuit. Best is to trace this with the continuity
    function of a meter. There may be an inline resistor or fuse blown
    that could be replaced with care. One fuse probably would power all
    six ports. You are less interested in fixing it as much as knowing
    what and why failed. Did that peripheral destroy your USB ports?
    Knowing rather than fixing is more important.

    Six, I cannot think of a simple way you might confirm the data half
    of each USB port still has good hardware. Again, a defective USB
    device could have pushed 60 or 120 VAC through that data interface
    chip. Damaged electronics rarely leave any visual indication such as
    damaged parts or burned traces. Still, inspection might reveal useful
    facts in seconds. But inspection means first tracing those USB port
    connections back to the USB controller and adjacent parts.

    Seven, easier may be to buy a few USB controllers for the PCI port,
    then duplicate the USB connection. If the USB peripheral is hardware
    defective, then you will have another maybe $10 damaged USB card.
    Just a few first and simple suggestions. I cannot say enough about
    trying to find a comprehensive hardware diagnostic either from the
    computer manufacturer or from the USB controller chip manufacturer. A
    diagnostics is most useful when Windows is not running.

    Eight, finally, did you look at the history of problems in the
    system (event) logs? To help find them, use Windows Help.

    Just a few fast and simple ideas to start the investigation.
     
    w_tom, Nov 9, 2007
    #18
  19. KB

    KB Guest

    Hi w_tom
    I am indebted to you for the effort you have put into this. I have printed
    your post out and will follow your guide lines step by step. This morning I
    have installed a 5-port PCI card (hence the printer working) and as I have
    other commitments just now I will make do for the moment with what is
    working, and once again 'pull the plug' on the Topfield.
    One thing is for sure: I have learnt a thing or two, in fact more than two
    from your post alone!!
    Thanks again - I will post again with the outcome but it may be a little
    while.
    KB

    "w_tom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Nov 8, 5:34 pm, "KB" <> wrote:
    >> There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact
    >> that
    >> all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
    >> nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to
    >> the
    >> ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a
    >> different
    >> part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went
    >> off
    >> together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
    >> electronic component?

    >
    > First define what originally existed. All six USB ports would be
    > driven by one USB controller. Each port has two functions - 5 volt
    > power and bidirectional data. Often the controller talks to each
    > connector via a data interface and via a power monitor chip.
    >
    > Second, computer (Device Manager) can only talk to USB controller.
    > Failures beyond a USB controller can only be detected if the USB
    > controller sees them and has programming to detect them. But USB
    > computer only sees basic functions - has few if any diagnostics to
    > report interface failures.
    >
    > Third, learn if 5 volts even exists on those USB ports. A simplest
    > test would be a device that operates at less than 100 ma such as an
    > LED light attached to a USB connector. These are sometimes sold in
    > Dollar Shops for, well, $1. Which ports even have that power? Power
    > should be available even without any USB controller actions.
    >
    > Fourth, information may be available from USB diagnostics - system
    > diagnostics only available from more responsible computer
    > manufacturers. Another diagnostic source would be USB controller chip
    > manufacturer. Device manager would not look at any of this. Device
    > Manager only reports if software is talking to the USB controller -
    > nothing more. If no diagnostics, then improvisation is necessary.
    >
    > Five, if no ports can even light the LED, then trace each five volt
    > line to motherboard. Each five volt would have some interface to a
    > power control chip AND to a 10 uf capacitor (the industry standard
    > circuit) in each circuit. Best is to trace this with the continuity
    > function of a meter. There may be an inline resistor or fuse blown
    > that could be replaced with care. One fuse probably would power all
    > six ports. You are less interested in fixing it as much as knowing
    > what and why failed. Did that peripheral destroy your USB ports?
    > Knowing rather than fixing is more important.
    >
    > Six, I cannot think of a simple way you might confirm the data half
    > of each USB port still has good hardware. Again, a defective USB
    > device could have pushed 60 or 120 VAC through that data interface
    > chip. Damaged electronics rarely leave any visual indication such as
    > damaged parts or burned traces. Still, inspection might reveal useful
    > facts in seconds. But inspection means first tracing those USB port
    > connections back to the USB controller and adjacent parts.
    >
    > Seven, easier may be to buy a few USB controllers for the PCI port,
    > then duplicate the USB connection. If the USB peripheral is hardware
    > defective, then you will have another maybe $10 damaged USB card.
    > Just a few first and simple suggestions. I cannot say enough about
    > trying to find a comprehensive hardware diagnostic either from the
    > computer manufacturer or from the USB controller chip manufacturer. A
    > diagnostics is most useful when Windows is not running.
    >
    > Eight, finally, did you look at the history of problems in the
    > system (event) logs? To help find them, use Windows Help.
    >
    > Just a few fast and simple ideas to start the investigation.
    >
     
    KB, Nov 9, 2007
    #19
  20. KB

    nobody > Guest

    KB wrote:
    > Thankyou for your further observations,
    >
    > There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact that
    > all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
    > nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to the
    > ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a different
    > part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went off
    > together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
    > electronic component?
    > (As a novice I can only use logic so forgive me if I speak jibberish).
    > If the current-monitoring circuit has been damaged wouldn't this show up
    > somewhere? - in the device manager, perhaps?
    >
    > KB
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Interesting thing about solid state electronic parts, they blow first to
    save on fuses and avoid tripping breakers. They also fail in numerous ways.

    FWIW, "Device Mangler"s 'device is working properly' message is about
    worthless. I can put in a non-reading floppy or CDdrive in a machine and
    get the 'working' tale. Same with a frozen harddrive.

    I'm making a Scientific Wild-Assed Guess as to the exact cause of the
    failure of those USB ports. Your USB functions are handled by a special
    purpose IC and/or the southbridge chip of the motherboard's chipset. One
    or both of these have a malfunction. Even if it's a separate IC, same
    IC could also be handling other functions.

    As for physical location being different for your bad USB ports, that's
    an engineer's decision. Circuit traces for the jacks are far less
    demanding than the location of either a USB support chip or the
    southbridge IC of the chipset.

    Back in ancient times well before USB, serial/parallel/floppy/harddrive
    inputs and outputs were usually on cards rather than on/in the
    motherboard. Easy fix, replace the card!

    Later, progressively more of these I/Os moved onto the motherboard, but
    each function was handled by a single set of parts on the mobo. Still an
    easy fix , but now the bad part on the motherboard could further fail by
    shorting power or a buss connection which in turn causes a new set of
    problems. More risk, but installing an add-in card to get that function
    back usually repairs the problem.

    Recent motherboards have so many functions built into so few ICs. The
    USB part of a chip may be physically right next to another unrelated
    circuit. Whatever blew in the USB area could have easily weakened
    something else that crops up later. That's the risk you have now by
    going with the add-in USB card.

    I'd gamble on going with the USB card. Just keep decent backups in case
    something goes gunnybag later.

    Just remember to turn OFF your existing USB ports in BIOS.

    XP sure hosed up replacing bad motherboards or upgrading. Back in the
    95/98 days, I've slid as many as 5 totally different motherboards into a
    working system over time. (Faster! More Flash! Gotta Have It!) Yes, I
    had to use a hammer and mace on Device Mangler and screw with drivers,
    but it worked.
     
    nobody >, Nov 9, 2007
    #20
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